Sid Roth

Sid:I believe the closer we get to the return of the Messiah the more the missing pieces will come into focus.  And that’s why I have Bill Salus on the telephone; Bill has spent the last 11 years researching what’s going on in the Middle East, the fate of America, and as far as I’m concerned this is a missing ingredient that once you understand this you’ll be able to put end-time Bible prophecy much better.  Bill why does God make prophesy such a mystery?  I am one of these people that say “I like one and one to equal two, I like things to be logical, just show me what it is I’ll pray it and do it.”  Why is it so confusing to so many people?

Bill:   Well, it’s interesting and I think where it draws our attention to Isaiah 46 verses 9 and 10 said where God says “He is God there’s none like Him declaring the end from the beginning, things not yet done seeing his council still stand.”  See He holds Bible prophecy to His authentic sovereignty of His own and that how it’s authentic sovereignty.  But once we start to understand prophesy because in some parts of prophesies we do get an enormous amount of detail.  We start to realize that God…prophesy is for us to inform us, not to impress us, God’s not someone with too much time on His hands, He’s the one who holds all time in His hands. And we should be thankful that He wants to share this upcoming information for us like a loving Father would.  So Bible prophesy which is about a third of the Bible Sid is extremely important we can’t discard it and yet many of us myself including came to the Lord through Bible prophesy.It becomes a witnessing tool,as a matter of fact it says in Revelation 19:10 that the Spirit of Prophecy is the very testimony of Jesus Christ.  Only He can say that, His testimony is prophetic.  So Bible prophesy is an amazing part of the Bible and unfortunately seldom taught in many of the churches today.

Sid:Now, there have been a whole series of what I consider supernatural events for you to get this revelation, digest it and be able to put it out in a form we understand.  Tell me a little bit about how this amazing revelation came to you.

Bill: Well, it’s interesting like I said, “I came to know the Lord through Bible prophesy, I was actually attending a Bible study of a scholar and he was doing the Book of Revelation.  And so I immediately got interested in the Bible and especially in the prophetic aspects of the Bible. I thought well, I’m going to study Bible prophesy I want to study the Bible prophesy that’s most relevant for my time, my families time, my children and grandchildren’s time.  I want to know it all I want to study it all I want to know about the tribulation and times and all of that.  But there’s something right now or is there a shoe that fits right now that would equip me for the days for which I live?  Which I think is really the importance of Bible prophecy; so I started being connected to, especially in the event of September 11^th when the twin towers were toppled, I started realizing listen this is about terrorism, that’s the ugly byproduct of the Arab-Israeli conflict.  And immediately my attention was drawn to those Middle-East prophecies dealing with those ancient territories that surround Israel and Syria and Jordan and Lebanon and the terrorist populations.  And I just became obsessed with it to be honest with you Sid; I felt like every time I would sit down at my computer open it up and every morning before I went to work. I had a mortgage company at the time this was about 20 years ago I would realize listen Lord I can’t go anywhere without You inspiring me to find out where you want me to go.  And as I would think I need to pick up where I left off the day before I would go back into that section of scripture and the next thing you know I’d be out somewhere else where the Lord took me.It was just like a miraculous relationship with the Lord; being able to find things He always showed up, He always showed up and took me where He wanted me to go inside of the Bible.

Sid:Now when the towers toppled, 9/11 and you started doing a lot of your studies God literally gave you a clear message, what was that?

Bill:  Well, the message was, well it’s was interesting because I was wondering the world had questions when that happened.  You know what is this, is the Armageddon, I would be listening to the radio shows and there was a harvest that was developing right over there because of what was going on and pastors were going over there and they were preaching the gospel.  But no one was really coming up with a response to it and I had been deeply imbedded in studying this stuff.  I heard one pastor well, known pastor say “You need to focus on Ezekiel 38 and 39.”  And here’s what’s going on and Sid for your listeners that aren’t familiar with that maybe we’ll be talking about it, but that’s a Russian, Iranian, Turkey coalition comes against Israel in the ladder days.

Sid:And most people, most Christians think that’s the next big war on the horizon if you talk to them.  But you say “No.”

Bill: Right a lot of them do believe that it’s eminent and so I want to tell you my reasons why I say it’s not eminent, why it’s near but not next.  But that’s why this one pastor said “Keep your focus on that.”  And that was the best answer that I’d heard but I as I was saying just a moment ago it’s not about Russia, you know it was not about Russia, that was about terrorism.  And so what I realized is that the Bible has to say about how terrorism came into being from the Arab Israeli conflict, which is that conventional method of warfare that the Arabs adopted after their conventional warfare failures of 1948, ’67, and 1973.  And what became clear to me is what follows, this is going to come to a climatic Arab Israeli war that’s described in Psalm 83, and it’s going to put everything else in place.  Once that happens the Israel that Russia invades in Ezekiel 38 that dwells securely in the last days, and there is whole laundry list that I can tell that describes that Israel. Ezekiel is so descriptive, that Israel, will come into place, but that Israel is not in place right now, it’s not dwelling securely without wall, bars on our gates and receipt of great fortune because Russia comes, is coming after it’s plunder.  Now don’t get me wrong we know that Israel is blossoming and it’s discovering natural gas and it’s just amazing, that’s a miracle in itself.  But the Israel that Russia forms a coalition to come and invade for great plunder and booty dwelling securely it doesn’t exist and the reason it doesn’t exist right now is because of the very nations listed in Psalm 83 that surround Israel that want to wipe Israel off the map.  That’s through the mandate of Psalm 83 verse 4 that they would cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel would be remembered no more.

Sid:You know it’s interesting I have often pondered Ezekiel 38, 39 that Israel will be invaded for a plunder, my spiritual logic says “That means they have to be very very prosperous so there for if I was interested in investing which I’m not, but if I was I’d be investing in Israel.”

Bill: Well, I concur Sid, however, you know we need to think about this too, because I get asked that question quite a bit by my friends in finance also a lot of my Jewish friends.  And I say “I do believe there is a greater Israel coming, a greater, a safer Israel coming in the aftermath of the IDF victory over the Psalm 83 war.  But we have to remember that when that war takes place you’re investments and your holdings over there in Israel should you invest they could suffer.  And that’s not going to be real good there for a period of time when a war’s going on.  Now Israel wins and Israel can…

Sid:Yeah, but guess what take any country in the world they’re going to have rough times because yet once more I’m going to shake this earth and those that are not on a firm foundation there going to fall.  I want to read a quote of yours about terrorism.  It says “Terrorism is the ugly byproduct of the Arab-Israeli conflict and that the Bible speaks volumes about what follows,” explain.

Bill:  Well exactly and that’s the whole Psalm 83 scenario.The attitude that’s involved in Psalm 83 and I hope we have time to develop this Psalm this prophesy for your audience here.  But it’s ancient hatred that’s long standing that’s been developed in the religion of Islam that’s embracing the Middle East over there and they are going to want to come against Israel, they have tried to in those various wars I told you about since Israel became a nation.  It’s sort of suspended now but then there’s no peace talks going on nor will there probably be at this point because Israel is not going to concede land that’s acquired in 1967 which is becoming a precondition of the Palestinians wanting peace.

Sid:You know remember the uproar that occurred when President Obama said that “Israel has to go to their pre ’67 borders.”

Bill:  Well, yeah and President Netanyahu was over here speaking to our congress and saying “That’s not going to happen” and in an essence when he came over and spoke that to the Palestinians was a declaration of war for all intense and purposes because to them.they want that land.  They want the Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital and they want the West Bank and the Gaza and they want to bridge it and these…

Sid:And you know what bothers me Bill is that, well like let’s take one of the three DVD’s and your book that we’re offering, but take one of the DVD’s “The Roots of the Mideast Conflict.”  Number one, most people don’t know the historical order as to why there is such hatred today.  I mean it seems to me if I was a member of the State Department, if I was a Congressman, if I was a Senator, if I was in the Whitehouse, if I was on the Cabinet, if I don’t understand the roots of the mid-East conflict how could I possibly give confident advice?

Bill: Well, and that’s exactly it and that’s why for 6 decades plus now there’s been no resolution to the Arab Israel conflict and it’s getting worse.  And you know ultimately land for peace deals are not prescribed in the Bible here this is God’s land and Israel’s being brought back into it.The Arabs want the Israeli’s to recede rather they’re expanding after 1967 they almost tripled their size.  God said they’d be coming back into the land numerous prophesies.

Sid:Bill, we’ve just run out of time.  But what I want our Mishpochah to do is uncover the missing piece of prophesy, the next war in the Middle East.  The experts literally have over looked this and the fate of America when you understand this you’ll see the fate of America.

SID: You know, this is real life. This is not fiction. This is not wearing a cloak and looking so good on the outside. These two people, Bob and Audrey Meisner, are being transparent with you to help you so they will make a difference in your life. So Audrey finds out from the affair that she had, she has a baby. The baby is biracial. There’s no way to cover this up. She goes to Bob. Bob, what did you think?

BOB: I wanted to escape. I wanted to get out. But the counsel that I got from my pastor was this. Because I wanted to sleep on that couch that very first night, I wanted to go to a hotel, I wanted to leave, and he says, no, you’re going to get right back into your marriage bed tonight. You will not spend night apart from each other, because we will not participate with the spirit of divorce. That’s hard, but you see, that’s my father’s heart. We resigned our positions from pastoring from the television ministry, and we went to a place of safety to get help for our family. God supernaturally provided for us in ways of work and in the ways of home, because I didn’t know if we would ever be happy again a day in our lives. But I knew that divorce was not the answer.

SID: But wait a second. You move from one country, Canada, to the United States. You have no job. How much  money did you have?

BOB: Not too much money.

SID: You have a pregnant wife, three children.

BOB: Yes.

SID: I mean, you are really like Abraham, going into new land.

BOB: I was willing to fight for my family. You see, when you want to step in the supernatural, you need to embrace the truth of God. You see, God has a preferred future for my life, for my marriage, for my wife and for my children, and divorce was not the answer. I needed the heart of God for my wife.

SID: Now what did you do with the child your wife was carrying, knowing the child was biracial. That must have been tough.

BOB: The biggest question that I had was this, would I believe to love this baby as my own. I know what it’s like to have a small child crawl up your leg and look into your eyes and say, “daddy”, and I knew what my heart was, and it was not your daddy. There was a transformation that was required by me. I knew that our love for each other, you know, our natural love had waned. It wasn’t sufficient to take us to where we needed to be. We needed God’s supernatural love. He transformed my heart by me knowing how much He loved me. We went through months of difficulty, good days, bad days, and some were better than others.

SID: Audrey, did you consider an abortion? I guess not, because you were raised as a Christian.

AUDREY: You know, Sid, there’s nothing I believe about abortion. When you’re that desperate, I was so desperate, Sid. I had been a Jesus girl, I had been in ministry. Now my kids are going to be messed up. I’m going to be disqualified. I’m going to be known for the most stupid and selfish thing I have ever done. And I remember exactly where I was in my kitchen when my made that phone call to the abortion clinic. And they said, you don’t even have to come in. We’ll just send you 10 pills in the mail, and just take one pill every week and your problem will be over. And I hung up the phone, and I said, “I don’t know if that’s the answer, but I can’t live through this. I can’t live through the whole idea. I’m so scared.” And I went to my knees and I said, “God, I won’t have an abortion, but I’m begging you, if you love me, you will give me a miscarriage, because I can’t carry this.” I think back now the reason I cried is because I’m so thankful that God did not answer that prayer, because what I was really praying for was God to evacuate me out of my circumstances. But God in His love said, “Audrey, I’m going to walk with you through every moment.”

SID: Bob, how in the world did you tell your three children? What were their ages? What happened.

BOB: 15, 13 and 10 years old. We just had a family meeting.

AUDREY: We were scared. We were so scared.

SID: I’m sure.

BOB: They walked in seeing their parents sitting on the floor crying. I immediately got up and I pulled a large queen-size blanket from the bed. With Audrey seated on the floor, I took this blanket and I covered her from head to foot. I knelt down beside her and I wrapped my arms around her, and I looked deep into my children’s eyes, and I said, “Kids, this is what God does when we make a mistake. He comes to us, He covers us, and He wraps His arms around us and He says, ‘I will never leave you, I will never forsake you.'” With Audrey covered and held in my arms, I looked into their eyes and said, “I love your mom. She’s so precious to us. I’m not going anywhere. We’re a family. We belong with each other.” And I just spoke as much security to them as I could. And with her covered and held in my arms, I said, “Kids, you’re going to have a baby brother.” Immediately, my older two began to cry, but my daughter, 13, she smiles as big anything. She looks as me and she says, “Daddy, we’re having a baby.” She sees my pain and cries, but she can’t contain her excitement. “Daddy, we’re having a baby.” I knew that we were going to be okay. And again, good months, bad months. But it was several months later that we found ourselves in the hospital. It was time for this little boy to be born.

SID: Now what did you name this little boy, Robert, what did you name him?

BOB: I gave him my name, Robert. His middle name is Theodore, and Theodore means “divine gift”.

SID: Is he gift?

BOB: He’s not accident. He’s not a mistake. He’s not the result of a sexual affair. He’s born out of the heart of God just as my other three children, and entrusted into me. He is the greatest gift, one of the greatest gifts I’ve ever received.

SID: Audrey, tell me about your son, Robert.

AUDREY: Oh he’s just brought so much joy to our home. And I think back, and all the lies the enemy told me about our kids being messed and that we would never laugh again or dream again, all those were because of just the power of what Jesus really can do. Our kids all love God. Our little Robert is now 11 years old, and he’s such a piece of work. He keeps us all laughing.

BOB: I struggled with would I be able to love this baby as my own. That was my biggest one. And my pastor knew that, and I questioned him many times. And one day he came to me, because I had other people bringing confusing points. Bob, you can’t love this baby. You’re doing so good. Give this baby up for adoption, all of these types of things. And one day, I was with him and I said, what do I do? And he says, “Bob, there’s a baby on your doorstep. What do you do? Will you participate with this fatherless generation or will you become a father to the fatherless? The rest is up to you. It’s time to grow up.”

SID: Hold that thought. But this is what I observed. I am overwhelmed. I am blown out of the water of the love I see between these two. I mean, it’s nothing of the transparency I see between these two. It’s about time for there to be transparency and reality. When we come back, I’m going to ask them to give you some keys as to why they have this and why you’re going to have this. Don’t go away.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And Tony, I don’t get it. I have read it’s too late for me. I’ve read the Bible. I don’t understand how someone could think, once saved, always saved. Tell me why that’s wrong.

TONY: Well first of all, Jesus said in Matthew 24, speaking to his disciples, he says, “He who endures to the end the same should be saved.” Jesus is talking to those that are his followers, his disciples, and he’s saying, you must obey me to the end of your lives, to go to Heaven and to go to glory. In addition to that, the apostle Paul, who was the great teacher of grace, said in Romans 11, he said, “Remember now, both the goodness and the severity of God on those that sinned and failed God’s severity came upon them. But God said on you with goodness, if you continue in this goodness,” meaning continue to obey the teaching of Jesus the Messiah, he said then, “If you refuse to obey the teaching of Jesus to the end of your life and you backslide,” he said, “God will cut you off.” And this is what he said, Sid. He said, if God did not spare the natural branch, take heed that God does not spare you.

SID: That’s what I was reading. I don’t understand. Unless you lift scripture out of context and do not look at all scripture, that’s the only way you can come up with that, really.

TONY: Not only that, the apostle of love, John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, God comes to John and through the person of Jesus by the spirit, and Jesus begins to talk to the church in emphasis and says, “I have something against you. You have left your first love. You’ve backslid.” He said, “Repent and do your first works again.” Then Jesus speaks to John about Sardis, and this is what he says: “You have a name that lives,” indicating at one time you were born again, you had a salvation experience. But Jesus says, “You need to remember from where you have fallen and you need to repent.” And then Jesus says this: “You have a few names of Sardis who have not defiled [unintelligible]. They shall walk with me and right.” And what Jesus is saying, is you have some people who are living a clean life, a holy life, a righteous life before me, and they’re going to glory. Then Jesus says one other thing. He says, “He who overcomes,” meaning overcomes sin, because Jesus defeated sin, “that same person will have their name in the Book of Life. But the person who surrenders to sin and does not continue to follow Jesus to the end,” he said, “I will block that person’s name out of the Book of Life.”

SID: Okay. What would you say, and I think you’ve almost answered the question, to those that say, yes, you have to repent when you’re saved. But once you do that, since Jesus already died for all of your sins you don’t have to repent any more.

TONY: Well let’s take a look at this. Because Jesus speaks, in Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation, to the seven churches, and to five of those churches he tells them to repent. In addition to that, you have in Acts, Chapter 8, Phillip the evangelist preaching, and a sorcerer by the name of Simon gets saved. And it says there that he gets saved. Later on, Simon sees the apostles lay hands upon people and they get baptized with the Holy Spirit, and [unintelligible]. Ask the apostle Peter if you give him money, if maybe you can get this power. And he approaches Peter. And this is what Peter says to him. He says, “Your heart is not right with God in this manner.” This is what Peter says. He says, “You need to repent of the wickedness of this thought and ask God to forgive you.” In addition to that, John, the apostle of love in 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all that’s not righteous.” Now Sid, it has been said that 1 John was written to Gnostics, a people who taught false doctrine, but the letters were written to the church. John actually says, Sid, “My little children.” He said, “You spiritual fathers who know Jesus the Messiah, you young men who have the Word of God living in you, you’ve overcome the wicked one, you children, you spiritual children who know God, that’s who I’m writing to.” And so it is very clear that the Word of God teaches us, after we get saved we need to repent because repentance is the method that God uses to transform your mind and my mind so that we do the will of God in a way that’s acceptable, pleasing and honoring to him.

SID: Okay. Tony, what about someone says, are you saying to me, Tony, I have to be born again twice? Is that what you’re saying?

TONY: No, I’m not saying that. Here’s what is the truth. Jesus says to one of the churches in the Book of Revelation, “You were born again, but because you chose to sin you spiritually died.” And when a person repents they can spiritually come back to life.

SID: Some of the counterfeit grace teachers are teaching either there is no Hell or there’s something like a Purgatory, a short term Hell, and then you go to Heaven. What would you say to them?

TONY: Well I’m listening to the apostle of love, again, John, and he says in Revelation 14, and he also says in Revelation 20, “That the people who are not found in the Book of Eternal Life, those who have repented, believe and obey Jesus the Messiah, that they go to the Lake of Fire and they’re tormented there forever.”

SID: Now what is the Lake of Fire?

TONY: The Lake of Fire is Hell. It’s where everyone goes who does not obey Jesus to the end of their lives. And allow me to say this, too, Sid, I want to listen to Jesus, because Jesus said in Mark 9, and Jesus is speaking to his disciples. He said, “If a person dies in sin,” and Jesus actually says to the disciples, “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to sin, cut that sin off. If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off.” Jesus said, “The person who dies in sin will go into the fire that never shall be quenched.”

SID: Why is Tony, why is he so passionate over this? Because the Bible says it. Why is he so passionate over this? Because he had a vision of the Lake of Fire. He had a vision of Hell. And I want him to tell us about that when we come back. Don’t go away.

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. By the time you’ve finish this weeks’ interview I’m going to tell you something they’ll be a paradigm change in your life.  It’s what you’ve always been after I can’t wait to get into it but my guest is Dennis Clark. Dennis and I were talking a little bit before we started this show and I want you to know a little bit about his background.  He’s watching TV one day a Christian TV show and he’s not born again, the last thing on his mind and  a preacher points his hand it’s as if it came right out of the screen it was just as if he was talking just to Dennis, and Dennis gets born again.  And he reads the Bible and he knows that this is God’s Word. He has no unusual supernatural things happen although it was very supernatural that just as TV evangelist just arrested his attention. Four months later he’s minding his own business and all of a sudden he has a vision.  No paradigm for supernatural, no one’s every told him anything about this, what did you see Dennis?

Dennis: In my minds’ eye I saw the Godhead, an understanding that was an impression on the inside.  Father, Son and Holy Spirit that I was indwelt and infused with a tremendous sense of power, then with my eyes wide open in the air in front of me were letters of living light.  Letters that I could read but when I read them I did not just read them with my mind.  My entire being was absorbing, and reading, and understanding the living words that I was seeing in front of my eyes.

Sid:  What did it say?

Dennis: It said, “Grand Book and Bible” a Christian Book Store within a mile of my house.

Sid: You don’t have to be a mental giant you get this amazing vision, you got to the book store and what happened?

Dennis: I was grabbed by the arm by one of the clerks she said “There is a man in this store that you must meet,” and took me over and the man was the author of the book that I had read, the only Christian book that I had read that four month period outside of the Bible.  And he said, “You need to go to a Christian businessman’s lunch.”

Sid:  This was what “Full Gospel Businessman.”

Dennis: Yes.

Sid: So you go to the meeting and all of a sudden you find out about being baptized in the Holy Spirit.  You receive the baptism you speak in a supernatural language; how did your life change?

Dennis: From that moment on there was always, and I mean always, a constant awareness of God’s presence.  There never was a moment that I wasn’t aware of precious cargo carrying precious cargo.  I even equated it kind of like a pregnant woman 7, 8, 9 months she has to be about her business but she will always be aware that she’s carrying precious cargo.  And the feelings never left, it was what I later come to understand of course the fruit of the Spirit the sense of His presence.

Sid:  You actually had a Spirit that had been harassing you your whole life broken off in 1976. You were afraid to even share your testimony in front of people.

Dennis: Yes.

Sid: Tell me what happened briefly.

Dennis: Well, I went and was invited because of the richness of even passing on the testimony of the open vision etcetera, they put me in front of a crowd of perhaps 40 people to share my testimony.  And for whatever reason out of the blue I’m standing on this platform and I freeze,  I mean just totally freeze. I could feel shame and it was strong and powerful and I didn’t understand it and walked right off the stage.

Sid:  You must have been even more humiliated by having to walk off the stage, you must have been a horrific experience for you.  Then what happened?

Dennis:  Absolutely, went home and then I went home and I said, “God, I’ve been called to preach, I’ve been having all these wonderful experiences what is wrong with me?”  And I knelt down by the side of a couch and I closed my eyes and it happened again. All of a sudden in my mines eyes with total clarity I saw myself at the age of perhaps nine and I was a bed wetter. I saw in my mind’s eye a young nine year old boy, me, making fists hating himself.  Hating himself that he couldn’t even control his own body. The shame was so powerful that it was my little secret nobody knew this.  And I said, “God, I knew that it was wrong to hold unforgiveness toward anybody but even myself.”  And down in my Spirit I received, this was even without words, I receive, this is even without words, “I receive forgiveness for having held such hatred for myself.”  And when I did I was flooded with the peace and all of sudden there was this thing that was on me like a slimy stocking mask, simultaneously while I felt, because I felt everything in the spirit realm as a constant, I felt it lift in my mind’s eye it was lifting off me, it was like a burglars stocking mask only it was slimy and ugly and as it came off…

Sid: You know what this reminds me it’s almost like you made an oath no one is going to ever know that I had this horrible habit and you even blocked it from yourself but you didn’t block it from your real self because it limited you from fulfilling your destiny.

Dennis:  Absolutely.

Sid:  And once it was lifted was it almost immediate that you had freedom?

Dennis: It was immediate as a matter of fact I went to a local church the next day and the first thing they said is “Dennis we want you to share your testimony.”  And the first thing I did was walked up to that pulpit and I said, “I don’t know if everyone is going to understand this but I like me,” and they all laughed about wow this guys may have some issues. I was so full of the joy of the Lord that I felt that for the first time I received myself the way God received me.

Sid: You were free.

Dennis: I was free, it was total freedom and shame and it was just like amazing that had been blocking the way.

Sid:  And the gifts of the Spirit ever since you were baptized in the Holy Spirit started flowing. Although you had a good prayer life at least you thought you had a good prayer life.  One day you are praying and you heard from God, what did He say to you?

Dennis: He said, “Ask me to teach you to pray.”  And at first I was a little stunned because I thought it was quite sufficient.  I mean I had learned everything I learned I learned in prayer and He said, “Ask me to teach you to pray.”  And so then I just humbled myself and said, “Sure, teach me how to pray.”  And then to my surprise it started immediately that day, one thought coming from the heart of God bombarding me continuously, and it must have lasted for a month.  That thought was “Dennis, I’m giving you My undivided attention.”  And every single day He never changed the subject but I like soaked in it, I absorbed it and I wanted to be a partaker of that.  And little did I know only in hindsight that rejection was being washed out of me over a period of five weeks, but in the mean time it did something else that I thought was quite amazing.  While I had never known such acceptance I had never known such affection, I had never and I’m feeling these things, they were not thoughts or concepts they were impressions that I owned and I absorbed and then as I…

Sid: These were knew feelings.

Dennis: These were totally – I never had anything like this I mean I was Dennis the Menace, there was nobody saying “Dennis you know your might constant delight and I’m giving you my undivided attention.”  But what happened was that all of a sudden by the end of the four weeks, being bombarded with so much affection, acceptance, attention I wanted to burst inside and say “God I want to reciprocate, I’ve got to, I can’t do like you God I can’t think of you every minute every hour.  I’ll try but I can’t do it like you, but oh God that I could reciprocate.” That’s when the voice came and He said, “You can, I’ve given you the equipment.”

Sid: What you know, and then for the next month God’s spoke to Dennis and taught him step by step… You know what it reminds me, when I was a young believer Dennis I got a hold of a book by Brother Lawrence and it was called “The Practice of the Presence of God.” This was written in the 1617 hundreds. It was a monk that his job in the monastery was washing dishes, but he had such communion with God that he was happier than if he had been President of the United States, well, that’s not a good analogy.  Well, leave that one alone, but people would seek him out because they knew when they would meet him they’d come and they’d come into the presence of God.  Well, I read that book and I tried to do what that book said, but it didn’t work for me, and that’s why I’m so excited about interviewing you because Dennis for the next 30 days God said to you “I’m giving you my undivided attention and I’m going to teach you how to commune with me.”

Sid:  I have on the telephone Peggy Joyce Ruth, I’m speaking to her at her home in Brownwood, Texas and Peggy Joyce was a born again Christian and she decided she’d witness to her Buddhist neighbor. And Peggy Joyce you had no idea on the rollercoaster ride that you were about ready to get on to.  At your worst as a result of opening yourself up to those tormenting spirits what position did you find yourself in?

Peggy: Well, it was very tormenting, I found myself finally under the care of a number of different psychiatrists, I was given shock treatments over a period of a lot of months.

Sid: If you didn’t have a problem the shock treatments would have given you one.

Peggy: So true, yes that is so true.  They put me on medication and said “I would be on medication the rest of my life and didn’t really expect that I would ever stay out of a mental institution because I was so filled with all kinds of fear.  And you know some of the biggest fears were disease and accidents and tragedy it just seemed like that opened me up to just living in torment.

Sid:  And you even started doing a search of different religions, but you finally came to the end of your rope; you finally gave up and you cried a prayer to God.  What was that prayer?

Peggy: I finally one night…it had been eight years and I had tried everything on my own I did the best that I could do and I went out to the clothes line and I said, “God I don’t even know any more if You even exist I can’t my prayers don’t even seem like they would get past the ceiling but if you’re there find me and bring me back to You.”  And I didn’t know it at the time but as I looked back in retrospect God started immediately to work on that prayer request and my goodness I just look back and see just the beautiful hand of God.

Sid: Well, as I’m looking over my notes on what God did it’s only and I’m looking at it almost as the eyes of a teacher which you happen to be also.  And the first thing that happened to you is that you prayed.  The second thing is you were baptized of the Holy Spirit speaking in unknown tongues but that wasn’t enough because you were still deficient in some areas so God gave you a vision and as a result of this vision you went through deliverance so step one was being filled with the Holy Spirit, step two was deliverance but it didn’t really happen till step three.  What was step three?

Peggy: Step three God had given me that vision and the first part of it showed me deliverance which I had no idea what that meant until after the fact.  But then the second part of the vision was how He was going to pack me.  Fill all the holes in that were in my body and that was the period where he was packing me with the Word and He gave me an exchange system.  He said that every time I had a fear thought, every time that I had any kind of terror or torment of any kind I was to exchange that for a thought from His Word, from a promise from His Word.  And I did that and it was over a period of oh weeks that I just did that all the time I would just constantly…

Sid:  You know what excites me is that in this dream that you had you heard a scripture, the scripture you had never heard of before and the scripture was “In your day of trouble call on Me and I will answer.”  There could not have been a more appropriate scripture for you in the entire Bible.

Peggy: It was, I was out in the field in the dream and when I heard that scripture it was like I was so excited it was like I could just feel my whole body just responding and praising and it wasn’t until the next day that the Lord supernaturally showed me where that scripture came from, I had no idea, I didn’t know the word 30 years ago and I had no idea that that was coming out of 91.  And when I found Psalm 91 I knew that even before I turned to it I knew that whatever was in that Psalm I knew was my answer.  And sure enough when I got there every fear that I ever had was answered in that Psalm, because protection promises are all through the word of God but this is the only place where every protection promise is there in that one covenant.

Sid:  It’s all summarized.

Peggy: Yes, exactly and every evil known to man is going to fall under one of four categories and all four categories are listed there in Psalm 91 with a promise that if we’ll dwell in His shelter; if we’ll acknowledge and look to Him as our protector then that evil will not approach us.  Then He goes one to tell us in that Psalm that He’s given us authority over the enemy.  He goes on to tell us that He’s given us his angels that will protect us.  And then seven more bonus promises at the end for those that love Him will extend their love to Him.  And oh, I just can’t even tell you what that did for me and God had me study that for months and months every word in that Psalm.  And of course I had no idea that He was having me do it to someday teach it to others I just thought he was doing that to bring me back to life.

Sid:  Isn’t it amazing that you can mediate and study one Psalm in the Bible which summarizes every problem that a person could have come against them from disasters, hurricanes, tornadoes, terrorist attacks, physical illness, infirmities of all kind, fears of all kind, emotional problems of all kind but you would think after thirty years you’d be I have to say this, you’d be bored with the 91^st Psalm.

Peggy: I see something new and hear new testimonies every single day, I wake up in the mornings and every time I confess this Psalm over me and over my family and over my church and different places, it’s like I’m confessing for the first time it is so exciting.  But God’s word is, it’s new every morning.

Sid: Well, the reason that I’m interviewing you is that I have two brand new books, one is literally off the press and the one that I’m holding in my hands right now it’s what is called the board book for children say 1 to 8 years of age and it’s the 91^st Psalm.  And the thing that I find so unusual about this book is that yes the parents could read it to the child or the child could read it for themselves.  But the child could figure out this thing just from the illustrations; was that intentional?

Peggy: Oh, yes that was my prayer.  I had had so many parents that were asking for a Psalm 91 book that they could teach the Psalm 91 to their children.  And we were constantly telling parents you know “Confess your covenant over your children.”  But I had never read anything teaching the child himself to learn how to appropriate these promises. And you know mom and dad is not always going to be there, so we have to get that child to the point where this becomes his revelation as well.

Sid:  And then your second book which is Psalm 91 for youth which is 8 to actually any age this is literally just off the press.  This I know that I’m talking to grandparents and parents and even young people right now. Just whet my appetite with one quick testimony of someone that took Psalm 91 and it literally saved their life.

Peggy:  Yes, oh I have so many wonderful testimonies I get so excited about that because we have been teaching this in our church now for 25–30 years so I’ve been teaching it even on a local radio program.  And so the people have really grabbed hold of it and our college students we’ve sent about 25 of our college team over to a Myan village in Mexico and every day they were getting up and they were confessing Psalm 91 over their team.  And they had Spanish interpreters but they didn’t have anyone who could interpret the Myan language for them.  And so they were taken one of the days up to this beautiful waterfalls way up in the mountains and at the bottom of the falls there was a glorious pond and was really hot over there and so they just couldn’t resist all going swimming with them.  Well, the next year when they came back there was a Myan guide who told them “Now you must not go to the pond at the bottom of the waterfalls because it’s full of very dangerous alligators.”  And so they realized that they had been swimming the year before with gators.  So they found out that the people had been so impressed the year before at these American’s who could swim with the alligators you know that it gave them to testify about a God who protects.  And you know we all thanked God that he could protect by shutting the mouths of the alligators just as easily as he shut the mouths of the lions in Daniels day.

Sid: Peggy Joyce if you had had a background like this as a child or a teenager; if you had had a teaching in a study like the two books we’re making available do you think you would have had to go through all the hell that you went through in this life?

Peggy: I wouldn’t, that’s what my husband and I talk all the time about the fact that we are so excited to be able to plant this inside of our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren.

Sid:  You know there are so much evil in this earth today there’s so much going on with children and sexual predators and terrorists and boy to denude these children of fear and move them into intimacy with God.

Peggy: Exactly.

Sid: What a gift for a parent or a grandparent to give their children.

Sid:  We’re getting ready Mishpochah to have the greatest Open Heaven the world has ever experienced and the Glory of God is going to come on us and when we speak we won’t have to confess, confess, confess, confess and believe and believe and believe because when God’s Glory shows up everything is instant.  And I have David Hertzog on the telephone and I’m interviewing him this week on his brand new book that’s just off the press “Glory Invasion.”  David in the book you said that you always knew if you could understand about how God created everything out of nothing it would be a key to what God wanted you to do and accomplish in your life.  It would be a key for you to understand all of how God’s faith dimension operates, explain.

David: Well, Hebrews 11:1 alludes to the fact that God created everything visible out of things invisible.  I was taught God created everything out of nothing.  And I always knew what if I could figure out how God could create something out of nothing then I could see incredible things happen that would just boggle the mind for the Lord.  And I caught a hold of Hebrews 11:1, wait a second He didn’t create everything out of nothing as I was taught in Sunday School, He created everything visible out of things invisible.  So I thought what are those invisible things that He used to create visible things, but they’re real things.  Genesis 1 it talks about the Spirit of God or the Glory or the presence or whatever you want to call it.  Hovering that’s invisible, most people most of the time you can’t see those we did in Miracle Valley, most of the time you can’t see the presence of God or the Glory you can sense it.  And the second thing was sound; He said “Let there be light.”  You can’t see sound but it’s a real thing even scientists know sounds exist and I just started getting this revelation about sound and the Glory of God that when the two merge together those two invisible ingredients it creates visible.  “Let there be light,” the Holy Spirit or the Spirit was hovering, God spoke and there was light and I started operating more and more in this realm of creative miracles from the invisible realm to the visible realm where you see a body part or you see something in the Spirit but then as you speak it out when the Glory’s heavy things are created it’s really really exciting.

Sid: You talk about literally science has even proven that the law of gravity can be suspended, what do you mean by that?

David: The smallest particle known to man; I’ll start with that and then I’ll have to explain your question; is a sound wave.  They usually thought it was a proton or a neutron and atom and now they’re saying even in quantum physics if you break down the smallest particle known to man it’s not even a proton, neutron, or an atom it’s sound, it’s sound vibration is the smallest building block of every atom, proton, neutron.  And that sound wave has ability to hear and respond which they’re founding out and so knowing that that the creation can hear and respond is created from sound then it’s a whole different element then you understand why Jesus spoke to the wind and waves and they obeyed Him, not just the demons the actual creation obeying His voice.  Why God told Moses to speak to the rock not just hit the rock, why Jesus had a conversation with a tree and got angry at the fig tree for not producing, how Elijah just commanded rain to come it’s a whole different aspect that when you understand the creation and what makes it tick and how it responds to then you start understanding now you have authority over even gravity or time or being transported.  Do you get the idea?

Sid:  I understand well, let’s take one of the chapters of your book, “Extreme Governmental Glory,” how does this principal operate in the realm of governments and leaders?

David: When you’re in the Glory of God there’s like I said it’s like Heaven on Earth and whatever you speak during that time what God tells you to say this or say that, it’s not like I’m confessing something to happen it’s boom it’s happening as you speak.  So I’ll give you an example I was on my way to Africa to do a big big evangelistic campaign and I’m in the plane and the Lord tells me the Glory comes upon me really strong and the Lord says to me “I want you to speak to the government.”  And I said, “How am I going to do that?”  He says “By speaking it right now in the airplane because My Glory is here right now whatever you speak right now is going to happen.”  It’s like strike the ground seven times right now and as many times as you strike it at this time right now you’ll have victory.  So I spoke it out loud I said, “In the Name of Jesus government open up right now to the Glory of God.”  As soon as I arrived the Pastor said “Is there anything I can do for you, here’s your hotel, here’s some food, get ready for the meetings tonight.  And then I said, “Yes I liked to speak to the government” and he looked at me really shocked so I didn’t push this subject; a few days later he calls me up and says, “I know it’s your night off but get dressed in two hours we’re going to the Vice President’s house, I hope you have a prophetic word for him.”  And I said, “What, how did this happen?”  He says “Don’t ask me,” I said, “No, tell me.”  He said, “Well, I told him you had a major prophetic word that was going to shake his life so he better listen to it.”  And he says, “You have a word don’t you?”  I said, “No, I didn’t think about what I was going to say if it happened.”  And so I had two hours to ask God for this man and I was nervous and I said, “God help me.”  And to make a long story short I got into his house into his living room began prophesying him and his wife began to weep like babies, anyways it’s a long story but God really changed his life and God invaded that man and the vice president of a country just by operating in the Glory.

Sid: Help me understand how would you define experientially the difference you said “When the Glory comes in you know that you can pronounce what God is showing you and it’s going to instantly happen.”  How do you know the difference between the glory and just a heavy anointing?

David: The difference is this, many times you’ll be in a meeting if you go to a lot of peoples’ meetings and they say revival meeting or healing meeting or whatever so you go and you don’t sense anything in the room special but obviously the man is preaching, he’s operating and he says okay we’re going to have a healing line for instance.  So you go up or you don’t even go up you watch others and say “Oh wow I think I’ve been healed praise God.”  So the gifts are operating but you’re not sensing the presence of the Glory in the entire room.  It may be on that one man preaching maybe, or it can just be anointing but it’s not in the entire atmosphere.  When the Glory comes in usually you sense it in the entire atmosphere as opposed to just inside the man of God.

Sid:  Well, you know what that’ll do it’s take the emphasis off the man and put it on God.

David: Exactly.

Sid: I like that idea!

David: Exactly and it makes your job easier because they’re not all looking to you to make it happen, they might be looking to you but you’re looking to God and God’s stretching out His hand.

Sid:  Now something you talk about in your book and you talk about wherever I hear you speak is the connection of Israel, and revival and signs and wonders, and even birthing your ministry.  Talk a little about that.

David: Sure, well in Roman’s 11 it talks about Israel or the Jewish people coming back into the gospel in a big way I mean there has always been Jewish people saved and they’re the first ones who brought salvation.  But it talks about in the last days when Israel comes back in it talks about a world revival.  So I got a hold of that scripture one day I was just asking God about my ministry Lord “What do You want me to do, how am I going to win the world.” When I was a missionary overseas to Europe and I just kind of struggling “Lord, what’s the key, what’s the secret if you can tell me one thing what would this key be for my ministry to win Europe and the world and America?”  And He said to me, “Bless Israel towards salvation and all I’ll bless any other nation that you put your hand to.”  And so that was a huge, huge, huge revelation for me and I was surprised that nobody else understood this revelation, pastors at the time this was years ago and I said, “Gosh, how come no one gets it?”  And they wouldn’t really, and I realized it was just a revelation that I had gotten from God.  Here I’ll just read the scriptures it says “If they’re stumbling has been blessing for the world and their failure rich for the Gentiles think what an enrichment or a great advantage will fall they’re full reinstatement.”  So it’s talking like why if they for a season some of the religious leaders missed Yeshua and God allowed Gentiles to have salvation, if they missed it we got this blessed, the church “How much more if they come back in; it’ll be as life from the dead or resurrection.”  And so that’s why I talk about Resurrection Glory in the sense of when Israel comes back into the gospel it’ll cause a new worldwide revival.  So when our ministry we always made a point to bless Israel, pray for Israel salvation, give towards ministries that are reaching out to the Jewish people or Israel and go to Israel and be a witness.

Sid: And you’re not you would not even want me to say this, but I was very impressed when we first met you started you and your wife started sowing into our ministry.

David: Well, we love your ministry you’re one of the few that are reaching lots of Jewish people with not just the gospel but with signs and wonders, or showing the supernatural part of God which is what you know the Bible says the Jews seek a sign.  So that’s why we like supporting you because you’re reaching them with signs showing that God’s a God of power not just a God of His Word.

Sid:  If people only understood there is such a key but I just love your book, where did you first start understanding the Glory because candidly David most Christians don’t have a clue; when you hear the Glory you hear it’s a word.

David: Yeah, I first… God began speaking to me about the Glory so I thought I had the Glory but I didn’t really fully operate in it.  I was doing a six month revival preaching on the Glory and actually that was one of the main messages and this revival broke out.  But then in 1999 of January the 2^nd I met Ruth Heflin she was a woman of God, very prophetic and she was probably the woman of God that was…I would call her an apostle of the Glory I mean she understood, she lived the Glory, she taught this revelation and just in my encounters with meeting her and being around her and having her invite me that’s really when this new Glory as we call it came upon my ministry through Ruth Heflin.

Sid: When you are in the Glory and you talk about it in your book all the things that happened you talk about deliverance is so much easier in the Glory, explain.

David: Oh, it’s so fun well if you’ve ever done deliverance you know how it can be where you’re praying for somebody maybe you’re trying to find the roots, and how did this demon get in here, were you abused, you can almost go though like a checklist like at a doctor’s office you know sign this release form and then we’ll…but then when the Glory begins to come suddenly it’s easy, you know.  Normally a lot of people shy away from deliverance because it sounds like demons and throwing up and screaming and all this kind and then the Glory sounds like “Awe the Heavenly realm and angels singing.”  So I always thought how do you merge the two together there’s got to be a way and I was in Africa one night preaching…

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, hold that thought we’ll find out about Africa on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah his name is Al Houghton, I’m speaking to him at Anaheim, California. Al has just written a brand new book it’s called “The Sure Mercies of David” and it’s really not new but it is new to this generation of Christians;  the first church understood it.  Al you said to me before we went on the air that the gospel that is currently being preached is only half of the picture.What did you mean by that?

Al:Sid, what I mean by that was the gospel of Christ is covenantal Jesus came not only as Savior and that’s what the gospel is.  Matthew, Mark, Luke and John paint a picture of Jesus the Savior; now when I went to seminary, got through Bible school that’s all I learned I learned that Jesus of the gospels.  But when I got in ministry the Lord Himself began to introduce me, well actually the way I got in ministry Sid was I met Jesus the Judge, Jesus the Judge is in Revelation.

Sid:You know I have to reflect a little bit, I was in a horrible mess 35 years ago and as a Jewish person involved in the New Age I had never heard anything about repentance.  I knew nothing about repentance. I was told the name of Jesus was higher than the demons that were literally possessing me and trying to kill me. I cried out one day “Jesus help” and I was set free.  Look at the mercy of God, but I knew nothing about repentance until years later.

Al:  That’s awesome, that is deliverance in the Name of Jesus, that’s Jesus in the gospels the deliverer, the healer, the savior.  I tried to argue with God; He was dealing with me to come into the ministry Sid and I said.”Lord I volunteered for a second tour in Vietnam so I could get enough hours to become and airline pilot, okay I laid down that career, but just let me go get my airline transport rating it’s a PhD in aviation that’ll cap off I’ll be able to lay it down then, just let me go do that.Silence.  I went to Olathe, Kansas to take my ATR check ride and you get in a brief oral, I walked in there Sid God took my mind away, I didn’t know who I was, I didn’t know where I’d…

Sid:It reminds me of a professional golfer that went into a tournament, he was called into ministry, he said, “No” to God, he forgot how to swing the club.”

Al:  (Laughing)

Sid:Same deal.

Al:  It was the same deal, I didn’t…I couldn’t put two words together in a sentence. I didn’t know what a WAC chart was it was like a road map for the air.  I could not identify it.  My mind was totally gone, and the FAA instructor asked me three questions, he got mad, upset and he said, “Get the heck out of here and don’t ever come back here until you know the basics!”  I walked out the door totally humiliated as soon as the door closed I heard the Lord “Are you ready to obey now?”

Sid:Hmm.

Al:I said, “Yes, I guess I am.”  (Laughing)  And I forgot that Sid I forgot it through seminary, I forgot it through 7 years of ministry and I focused just on the promise and the blessing and I taught people how to pursue anything they want through covenant and blessing.  And then again I met Jesus the judge, and all of a sudden I started to look at the difference between Jesus in the gospels and Jesus in the book of Revelation.  And Jesus in the gospels stilled the storm, He said, “Peace be still.”  But in Revelation chapter 2 to one of the churches He said, “If you don’t repent I will send a storm, I will send tribulation.”  In John 10:10 “The thief cometh not but to steal, kill and destroy, I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly.”  The devil called a thief there but to the church of Sardis in Revelation 3 verse 3 Jesus said “If you don’t repent I will come to you as a thief.”  So Jesus as both Savior and Judge is what the early church manifest to overcome the opposition and accomplish their assignments.  And I woke up to the fact that I didn’t know Jesus the Judge.We weren’t teaching Jesus the Judge, we had no paradigm for Jesus the judge and we had no access his justice.  So when I talk about Jesus the judge I’m really talking about divine justice.  God is a God of justice and we have a covenant that allows us to go into his throne room and pray and ask Him for justice. And He will stand up at that moment on our behalf and His justice will come; and I had never seen that, I had never taught that, but when I found it lights went off.  I said, “God this is covenant of David Jesus bought and paid for it, Paul had a revelation of it.  He took it too Antioch, I’m convinced the reason they’re fist called Christians in Antioch is because this covenant of sure mercy that says two things.  Number one I will redeem your failure and make it a platform for your greatest success.Number two, I give you access to the throne to bring divine justice into the earth.

Sid:Why is it that this generation hasn’t even heard of it and as a matter of fact if you talk about God’s judgment people get really upset with you and they say “No no these earthquakes and tornadoes and tsunami, that’s not judgment, that’s just the natural decay of the whole earth.  It’s global warming.

Al:  (Laughing)

Sid:I mean and I don’t want to get into the political ramifications but the church is very upset unless God is a sugar daddy and God would never usher in this kind of judgment.

Al:  This comes Sid really from the last 50 years of simply majoring on one part of scripture and that is the gospels to the exclusions of the rest of the Bible.  Even in the New Testament we see Jesus the judge now the fruit of this preaching for 40 years is now we have a church who only knows half of Jesus.  They know Jesus the Savior, they do not know Jesus the judge and we in the fruit of that now for 30 years has been one loss of Christian freedom after another.  When I was a teenager in high school there was prayer before we started every English class, there was prayer before every football game, there was prayer before every assembly.We have lost that right.  When I was in high school we had the Ten Commandments on the Wall, we have lost that right.  We have lost freedom, after freedom after freedom, after freedom.

Sid:What about just the one major sin of abortion, of murder of the innocent?

Al:  The cry, the innocent blood has a cry before the throne and what it cries for is judgment.

Sid:What about… isn’t it true that the last thing that happens to a society before it totally decays and dissolves is homosexuality is on the forefront?

Al:  That is absolutely true and we find it in two places in the scripture.We find it in Leviticus chapter 20 where it gives us a 4 step slide to the loss of a nation in judgment.Number one the first thing in Leviticus chapter 20 is the sacrifice of innocent blood; our children that are lost. And then it goes into witchcraft, New Age, and then the fourth one is the statutorily protection of homosexuality and lesbianism.

Sid:Well if the church continues on its path of just half of the gospel and not the justice of God, what is your prognosis for the United States of America? I can tell you this, with my own eyes in my life time I’ve never seen things turning so rapidly to sin.

Al:  Absolutely, my prognosis is this is based on Leviticus 20 it says that “If we statutorily protect what God hates, if we change our laws.”  Alright there are three barriers to the loss of the land Sid, number one barrier is the conscience of the individual, when an individual sears his conscience then the second one kicks in and that is the corporate conscience of society which are the laws of the land.  Whenever the laws of the land are changed to promote and reflect what God hates you got a third and final opportunity to save the land and that is the church.But when the church begins to ordain homosexual bishops now you’re down to a covenant prophetic remnant and they are the last chance for that nation.  And the only thing we have at this point to use and it’s enough Sid and that is an appeal to the justice of God based on the covenant of sure mercy; have mercy on the nation and bring your justice on the offending parties.  Now that’s the only way to save it.

Sid:Al I’m sorry time is slipping away…

Sid: My guest Steve Hill yields himself as much as he possibly can to the Spirit of the Living God and sees the same results happen when he speaks as we read in the New Testament, that is normal.  And he is on a campaign to make Christians normal. I’m featuring his latest book “Operating in the Miraculous” and you can see God’s hand on his life and on his family’s life of how step by step He taught him on one of the greatest generation the Argentina.  Miracles like… is it true Steve you were telling me that one of the people that you were working with or observing was Carlos Annacondia outside this gigantic tent even coming in and start manifesting demons because of the anointing of God was so strong?

Steve: Oh absolutely Sid we call that the demon tent and for a lack of a better term you know because you know it was people would be so delivered by the power of God. In Argentina and also in the U.S. there’s a lot of cultic activity there’s a lot of witchcraft and people would be mightily delivered when they’re confronted by the power of the gospel, when they’re confronted by Jesus there is power in the Name of Jesus.  You know you can say Baptist, you can say Methodist, you can say Assembly of God, you can shout out Sid Roth or Steve Hill and nothing happens, but when you call out the Name Jesus I want to tell you all Hell itself trembles.

Sid:  Now in Pensacola, Florida at the Brownsville revival with so many people just coming from all over the world. and you were the lightning rod that God used on Father’s Day 1995 almost a half million people made professions of faith and so many miracles and deliverances.  Did you have witches actually come in and try and stop this move of God?

Steve: Many, many, many, many, many, many times and there’s one particular time that a host of them came from New Orleans because we’re only three hours from New Orleans.  And this group came over and sat in the back row and they had their little rattles and they sat there and they were chanting in the back row.  And you know I welcome them, okay I stood and I told everybody welcome everyone to the revival and if you’re come here and maybe you’re a witch or a warlock and you’ve come to chant against us we welcome you and we don’t mind you chanting just keep your chanting down low as not to disturb the people around you.  And…

Sid: And my goodness Steve you got chutzpah, that’s a Hebrew word and it means nerve, okay go ahead.

Steve: Then I said this I said, “But let me remind you that you’re wasting your time because the power of Jesus Christ is that’s in this room is more powerful than anyone you’re chanting to so in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth we pray, we bind you.  And we’ve seen so many witches delivered, we’ve seen so many people set free. You know you’re bringing up a subject right here that is real pet peeve of mine and that’s how Christians are afraid for some reason they are afraid of the occult, they are afraid of witches and warlocks and you know they see some kid at the mall all dressed up in black and wearing a pentagram and they’re afraid.  My friend we have, we’re covered in the blood, we have total authority over every other power that’s out there; walk right up to the people you can have a conversation with them.  Say the Name Jesus and watch what happens. (Laughing)

Sid:  Steve you’re like the Bible speaks about, you’re a dead man that was given your life back, you should have died from drug overdose and crime and a whole slew of things before you got saved.  Then after you were saved you picked up an incurable disease hepatitis; when you found out you have that disease it’s a death sentence what did you do?

Steve: Well, it is a death sentence and it was killing a lot of my friends and it’s killing a lot of people today.  Well, I wasn’t happy when I heard about it you know the doctor said that’s “It’s incurable, he said that “There’s one medication you can take and there is only a 5% cure and it’s got really bad side effects.”  So I decided well God’s going to have to heal me; it’s funny I went home and told my wife, I told her I said, “I’m going to die.”  And of course I look forward to death okay, when death comes I get to go with Jesus so I have no fear of death, I want to live long don’t get me wrong but I have no fear of death.  And she said, “You’re not going anywhere, she said, “You’re not leaving me here with all the kids.”  And so she just…

Sid: (laughing)

Steve: She was straight man and so that night I went to the revival and Suzette Hadding who had worked with Reinhardt Bonnke for years she was visiting and she had a word from the Lord that I had an incurable disease.

Sid:  Did she have any way of knowing this in the natural?

Steve: Oh, no one knew, no one knew outside of my wife and my doctor, because I had just been diagnosed.  And then she prayed a prayer she said, “God’s going to heal you.”  Instantly right after the prayer the next day went back to the doctor, had more blood work couldn’t find it.  God more blood work, couldn’t find it.  And you know Sid, all that we’re talking about is the Bible says in Mark 16:17 “That these signs will follow those who believe.” You know verse 18 says “They’ll lay hands on the sick and they will recover.” If you’re a believer these things should be happening.

Sid: Okay, you’ve had so much experience in the Argentinean Revival, Brownsville and Pensacola, Florida I mean from two different major revivals you’ve had this experience you’ve written what you’ve learned. But most people would say “Yes Steve but we know the anointing that you walk under, I’ve seen you at Brownsville, I’ve seen you on television, I’ve seen people just fall over when you walk by them that’s not me; so this is going to work for me.  What would you say to them?”

Steve: Well, take your pick, “What do you want, okay.”  I want the power of God and this is not, God is no respecter of persons if you’re living holy, you love the Lord with all your heart, soul and strength.  He wants to use you sister, sir, he wants to use you but you’ve got to choose to be chosen.  And you say “Lord use me.”  And then one of the reasons I want to encourage people to get this little manual to me is all it is this “Operating in the Miraculous.”  Because I tell people what the steps to take, I try to make it easy to understand that it’s not you, you’re not…Steve Hill is nobody.  I’m a you know I’m a drug addict saved by grace, but as I follow the Biblical patterns for miracles then they’re going to happen.  See it’s not up to me, it’s up to God, He’s the one that’s on the spot, not Steve Hill.  Because He says “He will heal.”  So we need to know what to do and how to do it and watch what God does.

Sid:  You know what would you say to a mother listening right now whose kids are on drugs, one raised as Christians and there out there selling their bodies.  They’re alcoholics and you know it’s very few of these people get healed through science.

Steve: What I would say is never stop knocking, never stop asking, never stop praying and one of the things that moms and dads forget about if that we live in this…our own little world but we forget that there’s angels, this is a spiritual warfare and if your son or daughter has left home or your son or daughter is in another area or family member that’s sick or lost or on drugs.  Remember God has got warring angels he has got men and women that are outside of your world.  My mom did not lead me to Jesus, another man led me to Jesus but my mom was the one praying and so believe God for the miraculous, step outside of your little world and say God whatever it takes touch my loved one.

Sid: Steve I got to ask you this question, when you were through a word of knowledge you were prayed for; you were healed of an incurable disease hepatitis did you go back to the doctor that gave you the death sentence and what did he say?

Steve: Well, I had to yeah because you know I want to see the paper, and on top of that I was trying to get some life insurance so I need, and they’re not going to give me anybody life insurance that’s about to croak.  And so I went back had the blood tests and all clear and went back again and had it clear and several months, I mean I’ve had blood tests for the last several years and there is just no sign, as a matter of fact I had one two days ago.  No sign of it and so Jesus heals, oh Jesus right now in Jesus Name for those that are listening that need a fresh touch from God in Jesus Name I speak healing on your body, I speak healing on that neck, I speak healing that arthritis, that arthritic hand in Jesus Name be healed.  That heart be healed in Jesus Name.

Sid:  I tell you what’s interesting Mishpochah how about a second witness as Steve was calling these words out he was calling them as I was hearing them also.  I know that you’re healed just proceed by moving your body and you’ll see, you’ll see that anointing.  What if someone moves there body and the pain is still there, what would you tell them to do?

Steve: First of all say the Name  Jesus, oh that…whatever you do don’t stop saying the Name of Jesus and say Jesus I’m healed, Jesus I’m healed, Jesus I’m healed and keep trying to move.  You know don’t do anything ridiculous you know it you’re in a wheelchair don’t wheel up to a stair well and throw yourself down but start moving around doing things you haven’t.  Be stubborn, oh please be stubborn about this go after God with all your heart soul and strength.

Sid: You know I’m reminded of someone that had hepatitis and had a death sentence and as a young man and as young children and a wife and a family and everything to live for and his ministry is prospering but as far as you’re concerned you got so desperate that’s how desperate we’re to be normally whether we have a death sentence of not.  That’s the normal way to fight, be a fighter don’t be a quitter, and some of you need a real shot in the arm on understanding of the lessons that Steve has learned over the years in miraculous.

Sid:   We want everyone everywhere to stop being so dependent on self and dependent on you and be more like a little child, saying I absolutely trust you God I can’t do anything but in your name we will be victorious.  There is such a victory for those that surrender to God and when you hear my guest or even better read the book of Gary and Angel Wood; you see Gary died went to heaven and was sent back and he is accomplishing everything that Jesus told him to accomplish.  My guest Gary Wood tomorrow we’ll be talking to his daughter Angel who is a walking miracle.  And Gary Jesus told you that you were to do three things when you came back to earth, what were those three things?

Gary:  Well, I was to minister on the subject of restoration and He said that there would be a real Spirit of restoration that would prevail throughout the land.

Sid:  Now what does restoration mean to Jesus what does He mean?

Gary:  It means to build up again, to renew, to reestablish, to give back what’s been stolen or taken away from you.  And it means to restore it back to it’s original condition and He told me that it’s paid back for the devil and it’s payday for the church.  And He said, “Tell, My people that they don’t have a provision problem they just have a revelation problem.”  And He said, “Tell them that they can believe and get back what the devil has stolen from them.”  And He showed something real powerful in the book of James chapter 5 concerning this; it talks about rich men who have gathered their riches and they’ve saved them up for the last days.  And it talks about they gained this wealth through fraudulent means.  And Sid then it say something, in the original language that’s really interesting it says “This money that’s been fraudulently received through deceptive means by these rich mean is crying out.”  And the word there cry is cretso in the Greek.  Now here’s what it means; “To shriek, it means to scream with intensity.”  And here’s the picture, the picture is of when Jesus a Rabbi came walking through town as was customary in that time he would come teaching His followers would get around Him He would go to a synagogue and He would finish His teaching.  And you remember there was a blind man named Bartimaeus the Bible talks and He had heard about this blind eye opener, he cries out, he shrieks out this word says, screams out, “Jesus! Thou Son of David had mercy on me!”  And all the religious people go “Sh, sh be quiet but he doesn’t stop.” Okay the picture of this Sid is that money is crying out and shrieking and screaming just like blind Bartimaeus was crying and screaming to get Jesus’ attention.  And Jesus stopped right there and he got healed and that money it’s screaming out and here’s what its saying.  “I’m in the wrong place, I’m in darkness, I need to get out of darkness to Sid Roth’s Ministry, I need to get where I can reach the whole world with It’s Supernatural.”  And that’s what’s going to happen in this last days, and we’re to agree with what this scripture says, we need to cry out, I know that sounds, I know that sounds foolish, but I can give you many scriptures that verify exactly what I’m talking about.  John chapter 7 Jesus said, “If a man thirsts, He cried out and said, “If a man thirsts let him come, and drink of Me and He screamed it out with intensity.”

Sid:    So you are saying that the Lord told you that we should scream out for what is rightfully ours.

Gary:  Exactly, everyone that’s listening to me right now and myself have had money taken from us.

Sid:  Not just money, how about other arenas in family and in health, and in jobs.

Gary:  We could tough the whole area of life’s spectrum and we can scream out and that’s what that word means, it means to cry out and literally say “That’s in the wrong place, and see that’s all been prepared and kept there it says in that passage for the last days.”  Well, I believe we’re in the last days.

Sid:  Listen I know that we are suppose to have millions and I don’t mean a million, millions, millions and millions of dollars poured into this ministry and we’re supposed to take our television show “It’s Supernatural” and put it on secular television in every city in the United States and every city in the world.  It’s going to take millions, I know God wants us to have it, what should I be doing?

Gary:  Well, I would cry out to the top of my lungs and say “Jesus bring that money out of the kingdom of darkness over into my ministry.

Sid:  Jesus, “Bring that money out from the kingdom of darkness, into Messianic Vision and do it now!”

Gary:  Yes, it’s a cry out for your inheritance.  Now Dean and I did this we did this in our own ministry and the next day after we did this my wife called me on the phone, she went to the post office and she screaming and crying and she goes, “You’ll never believe it, you’ll never believe it!”  I said, “I will believe it, tell me what happened.”  She said, “We got a check and the man wrote a letter and said, “You touched me twenty years ago, we’ve been thinking about you, here we want to bless your ministry, $15,000.”

Sid:  Tell me the second thing Jesus told you to do as to why you were coming  back from heaven.

Gary:  He said that I was to teach on prayer.

Sid:  Listen, you have such insight in prayer in your book called “A Place Called Heaven” that if someone just reads your book I believe they’re going to get a picture of how prayer is suppose to operate.

Gary:  I believe that totally because He told me to pray “It is written.”  When you see Jesus you always see Him saying “It is written,” then you have the right to say, “It is finished.” We always spoke that and I saw over the earth evil spirits that were sent to deceive people and it was like a big swarm of flies but when people would pray on the earth and those demons were out there and they were lying, cheating, stealing demons getting people to commit adultery and say evil against one another all the terrorism.  I saw all those demonic forces and when people would pray those demons would just have to burst ascender and they would have to just have retreat from the prayer warriors that would send up the prayer in battle.

Sid:  Tell, me the third thing that Jesus commissioned you.

Gary:  He said, “That there would be supernatural release of miracles.”  I’ve seen blind eyes open, I’ve seen dead ears unstopped.

Sid:  In just your ministry or everyones; did He say that this would happen on planet earth to other people or just to you?

Gary:  Everybody that would believe and stand on His word and speak the word miracles were to start abounding in mass quantity.  I prayed for a lady one night in a service and the Holy Spirit told me to slap her in the face.  Now you better be sure when you do that the Holy Spirit’s told you or you’re going to get a lawsuit.  But when I did that the power of God touches her and she said, “You hit me on the opposite side of my jaw and knocked it back into place.”  And she said, “I had TMJ syndrome and you slapped me and she said now I’m perfectly whole.”  And that ladies name is Debra Pangent who was once asked by Elvis Presley to marry him.

Sid:  The movie star, she was in “The Ten Commandments.”

Gary:  Starred in “The Ten Commandment.”

Sid:  But okay, now the Lord also gave you ten specific signs to look for His return; how many of the ten have not taken place since He told you that?

Gary:  I can’t say that any of them have not taken place, I would have to say that everyone of them has.

Sid:  And what did He say when these ten signs take place He would return?

Gary:  He said He would return, I saw the golden trumpet that was setting on a beautiful stand and He said that it would be at that moment that Jesus would be sent forth to call His children home.

Sid:  So do you believe He’s returning in your lifetime?

Gary:  I believe it will all of my heart, I believe the only feast, I wouldn’t argue with anybody about this but the only feast Jesus didn’t fulfill was Rosh Hashana.  And I believe Jesus fulfilled all the feasts and I personally believe He’s going to fulfill that feast and He’s going to come  back in that time frame with all scripture that “No man knows the day the hour because as you know it takes over a period of time.  I just believe it, now if He comes back right now today or tomorrow I sure wouldn’t argue and I’d be…

Sid:  No, no, no I want them to get your book so they’ll be prepared for heaven and so they will rejoice and won’t sweat the small stuff.  And that you will be so excited when you read his book “A Place Called Heaven” and then Angels book she writes it with such childlike faith.  If you have anything that is dead in your life, that is hopeless, in your life, read angels book it’s called “Angel, a Walking Miracle.”….What feedback are you getting from people that read Angel’s book?  Angel was supposed to be a near vegetable not accomplish anything with her life, she was a university said “She was mentally retarded.”  What feedback are you getting?

Gary:  Well, we’re getting people telling us how they have faith explode in their heart and they believe if God can do that for Angel then He would do it for them.  When Angel prays for people they get healed in their minds.

Sid:  We’re going to have Angel on tomorrows broadcast, how about from Alzheimer’s?

Gary:  Absolutely she’s received a lot of requests and prayed for people in that area.

Sid:  You need not be ashamed with the atheistic education system that we have that with a country that won’t allow us to even post the Ten Commandments in government buildings and in schools.  And I am so concerned about the onslaught of within our education system and within our media to undermine the authenticity of the scriptures. That’s why I’ve asked my friend James Nienhuis to talk about his book “Old Earth Why Not?”  Because there are things that I personally took by faith, but I didn’t have the scientific evidence. This book would prepare anyone; as a matter of fact what about teachers, Christian teachers when these questions come up you would love to see his answers for the argument that the earth was started with a big bang, which caused the universe to be established billions of years ago. But Jim on yesterday’s show we were talking about the flood, and now let’s talk about the ark.  How in the world could we have so many animals and species and I mean the ark wasn’t big enough to have all of these animals, how would you explain that.

James:  Okay, before I broach that magnan… quote “magnanimous problem” let me cover one quick “magnanimous problem” also.  Noah’s flood did not cover the Himalaya Mountains rose at the close of the flood year.  Okay, that having been said, Noah’s Ark landed on the mountains of Ararat which are pillar basalts.  A lot much of it is pillar basalts and that’s a black lava rock that rises up through water; how do you like that Sid.

Sid:   They don’t teach that in high school and college I can tell you that. (laughing) I mean You would drive an atheistic professor nuts you know that Jim that’s why I want everyone to read your book.  So tell me about all those animals that fit in that little boat.

James:  Yes, and that the little boat 450’ long by 80’ wide by about 50 about the size of an ocean liner landed in the mountains of Ararat it doesn’t necessary say on Mt Ararat proper, it says in the mountains of Ararat.  So that’s a vast area of the eastern Turkey.  But that vessel had room to hold the 20,000 kinds of animals the Bible speaks, two of this kind, two of that kind, seven of a clean kind going on Noah’s Ark Biblical kinds.  Now the question is what is a kind in the Bible?  Well in modern scientific parlance it’s a syngameon, s-y-n-g-a-m-e-o-n, syngameon; that’s the biblical kind.  For instance a cat syngameon in the sense that, did you know this Sid lions and tigers and leopards can all inner breed to produce offspring.  Did you know that?

Sid:  No. (Laughing)

James:  Because they’re capable of that biologically that proves that they came from a common ancestor, it’s genetic variation within a syngameon or a biblical kind. Thereby only about 20,000 kinds of animals need have been on Noah’s Ark which would have only taken up half the volume of that Ark, about the size of an ocean liner.

Sid:    Now let me ask you a question, have you been coaching Bill O’Reilly or has he been coaching you on these words?  I’m just teaching, don’t…(laughing).

James:  Sid this is big I actually maybe I’m maybe I’m the first young earth creationist to discover this term in the high hierarchy of the esoteric of Darwinian biology, but it pulls the lid off the whole concept.  They have this term syngameon which explains why creatures from different “species” can inner bread and produce offspring. You know what that does to the viability of the term species according to Darwin Sid?  Species is thereby a meaningless term because different “species” can inner breed to produce offspring like the lion, the tiger, the leopard which proves they all came from a common ancestor.

Sid:  This is so fascinating and you know something I was reading in your book that I was also aware of changing the subject just a little bit.  But the Chinese language very few people are familiar that in the little letters of the Chinese language we literally have many of the stories found in Genesis.  Now if China is as old as they say it is how come those accounts were in its formation of its language?

James:  Oh absolutely,  we’ll Ham a son of Noah was undoubtedly a great navigator and he settled and his progeny settled much of the world, you know Shem settles mostly in western Asia and eastern Europe and Japheth settled mostly in Europe proper western Europe.  And Ham was a great navigator and he sailed to many locations and settled there including China. Cam, Cambodia; Cam or Kem as the Egyptians call him Kem or Cam Gulf of Cambay India; Cambodia southeast Asia; that’s Ham he was a great navigator also who was known as Chronos the time man because he could measure and map the earth by measuring the wobble of the  earth’s axis which is a whole another story.  But anyway the progeny of Ham settled in China obviously with knowledge of the ancient, not ancient at that time the stories about Noah’s Ark symbol for boat in the ancient Chinese pictographs is a concave form with eight dots in it.  How many people were on Noah’s ark?  Eight people, the ancient symbol for righteousness or righteous in the ancient Chinese pictographs is the symbol for I and that is me or you Sid under the pictograph for lamb; under the lamb, am righteous.

Sid:  Whoever wrote the Chinese alphabet knew or who ever created it knew all the accounts of Genesis even in a prophetic sense from what you’re telling me.

James:  Oh, absolutely you know and that a Messiah would come who would bruise the evil one.  You know that’s replete in ancient literature as well Osiris and Horus for instance of the ancient Egyptians, which is actually an analogy for the rotation of the planets.  The sun setting and rising everyday that’s a Sirus and Horas but that is what they were referring to a Savior who would; who all the ancients cultures were aware of this prophecy first thing in the Bible or in the early portions of Genesis.  See it’s all mankind and all the ancient tribes have a global flood legend as well; now why a global flood legend?  Why not a global fire legend or why not a global you know hurricane legend?  Why did they all have a global flood legend?  It’s more than coincidence.

Sid:  How old is the earth?

James:  Oh, roughly 6,000 years old.

Sid:  How can you say that with all this scientific evidence showing that things are much older?

James:   Well, when you understand that the Dane methods are flawed and based upon ennoble predisposition; such as what the original chemistry of the rock was.  They don’t know what the original chemistry of the rock was; which is a presupposition of the Dane method, but they don’t know that.

Sid:  So is it the blind leading the blind?

James:  Absolutely, they say the composition of the rock when the rock was formed is what they want it to be.  Now if you want to call that science go ahead and call that science.  Now couple that with the sedimentary stadia for the sedimentary layers; vast sedimentary layers with billions of creatures in tombed therein from a flood forming the fossils which we see today 99% of which are marine creatures up on the continents explain that one.  So you couple that the geology speaks of catastrophe with the fact that the Dane methods are seriously flawed and based upon ennoble precepts and presuppositions.

Sid:  But wait a second when I went to Kenya I saw the Leakey Museum and this Leakey Museum they have monkey’s going back millions of years.

James:   Really.

Sid:  Well, that’s what the museum curator told me.

James:  But there’s no evidence of it except the radioisotope days which are flawed and based upon ennoble precipitations, for instance sometimes rock dates come in with positive values like I said before.  Now what kind of science is that?

Sid:  Well, why doesn’t the scientists realize what your book shows in such simple form?

James:   Well, if they acknowledge that the geologic column is obviously caused by a catastrophe which caused all the disposition of all those eroded sediments stacked like pancakes on the continent .  If they admit that that obviously is the case, then they are doomed to say “Well, the Bible is right all along.”  And then we’d have some serious altar calls at Yale and Harvard and Princeton and the whole bit and I think that they probably don’t want to see that Sid.  The way they’re faking it now anyway.

Sid:  And the thing I see you actually have an ulterior motive and your ulterior motive in this book is after, you explain and you just knock the socks off of these scientists that are trying to disprove the accounts in the book of Genesis.  After you explain it you’ve got a very very interesting chapter in here and the title is “Jesus was just a Wise and Good man.”  And these are myths that you’re disclaiming, but you take someone through to salvation, is that really the intent of the book.

James:  Absolutely, you know God provided me sufficient faith to become born again to burn through all the Darwinian junk that I had learned and still become born again.  But imagine how easy it would be for a guy who says “My goodness Genesis really does look like an accurate history book?”  Then how much easier would it be to act on the faith that God gives everyone?