Sid Roth

Sid: Can you prophesy over a musical instrument?  Can you get physically healed as a result of listening to anointed music?  Can you get emotionally healed as a result of listening to anointed music?  That’s what’s going on and I want to find out the artist behind the music and I have the artist behind the music. I have on the telephone Theresa Griffith Hurlbert.  I’m speaking to her at her home in Northern California.  Theresa I don’t why but it seems as though when we humans are broken, broken vessels, God uses us more.  I’m wondering why He can’t use us if we’re not broken; it’d be a lot easier wouldn’t it?

Theresa:  It sure seems like it but you know He says “That He uses the weak things to confound the wise, and His strength is made perfect in the weakness.” You know when we are weak He is more glorified because then He gets to show-off as the God that He is you know.  And it seems so many times in our Christian lives that we want to have an effort to show that we’re okay or you know that were good enough.  So I’ve found in my life as I just let go, admit that I’m weak in fact the biggest thing I learned out of all of my suffering that I am nothing, and I can do nothing and that is perfect material for Him to do the impossible.

Sid: And yet I read reviews for instance a representative of Flute Association once said “You possessed techniques that are the best in the world.” So how do you deal with that type of compliments?

Theresa:  Well, because of the fact that I was Chair Flute in every band that I was ever in, and I entered some contests with the Gospel Music Association for a vocal and they said that “We don’t think that you will ever do anything outside of your own local area.”  So what I did is in my nothingness I came before the Lord and offered Him myself as a living sacrifice and said “Okay, I’m not a good flutist, I’m not a good vocalist but will You make me that because I have this desire in my heart that You gave me so, will You show me how.” I did take lessons to show myself approved as well. But you know I had some struggles where I just couldn’t seem to figure out how to accomplish the beauty that I was looking for.  So the Lord said “Yes.”  He gave me dreams to tell me how to play the flute; He downloaded to me because He’s the best expert flute player in the entire world.  He’s the best vocalist and He’s the expert in everything, every field in the earth; So we can actually go to Him in our weakness and say “Will you download to me the expertise in this area?”  And He did He spoke to me one day in the area of flute and said “Do it this way.”  And I tried and then I played before this lady with the National Flute Association and I was practicing a tonguing technique and she said “Do you realize that’s one of the fastest double tonguing techniques in the world, that’s faster than Jean-Pierre Louis Rampal and James Galway and I said “It is?”  Because Jesus had taught me how to do it.

Sid: For those that don’t know what I have in my notes to me you had 25 years of some of the worst abuse a human can have through your marriage.  Within that time you had 10 years of chronic illness; you were bed ridden many times; I still see this pattern of this brokenness of a…there’s a word people don’t like to hear it’s called surrender it’s not part of 21^st century American Christianity. I guess when you come from a background like that you don’t have anything to hold on to.

Theresa: Right.

Sid: Tell me the results of people listening to your music. I know healing rooms are using it; I know hospitals are using it; why are they using it?

Theresa: When I was ill I was bedridden for 5 months at a time I lay there I prayed and say “Lord, when I get well I want to go into the studio and produce music that brings relief to people’s pain body, soul and spirit.”  Because myself I needed soothing music and being a music major I loved music, but in my weakness I was so fragile that noise bothered me, music bothered me but yet I needed something…

Sid: Look how the devil attacks what God wants to use; isn’t that amazing.  Here God’s so anointed your music you could not even listen to music it would disrupt your physical system.

Theresa: Right I just couldn’t find anything soothing enough so I said “Lord when I get well and I know You’re coming for me I want to go in the studio and produce music that brings relief to people’s pain body, soul and spirit.  And so that’s what happened He came in 1998 and healed me and I immediately went into the studio and began to play without music prophetically saying “Jesus will you just come and blow through me.” He did and it was such a goose bumpy experience it’s terrifying at the same time because you have to jump off the cliff not knowing what your first note is, not knowing where the first notes going to go. So I’m in the studio with the pianist and myself.  We at least know the key because I have twelve different instruments and they all have a different key so we know the key but that’s it.  So we begin and He comes in like a rushing mighty wind through my mouth and I can feel it; like a stream of water flowing through me and I get to partake of it as it’s coming through.  And it’s just the highest high I’ve ever had.

Sid: I have listed here various physical conditions that hospitals and healing rooms have found that people have been healed of; they’re blood pressure has lowered; their pain has disappeared and people with insomnia are able to sleep.  As a matter of fact the producer of our radio show started listening to your music at night and she told me a couple of observations.  She can’t fall asleep listening to something, but she fell asleep when she listened to your music; not only did she fall asleep but she had thoughts in areas she hadn’t thought of that were very helpful. Why did this happen?

Theresa:  Well, like I said it’s the Spirit who is playing through me and His anointing is there and so the Spirit speaks to people while they listen to instrumental music and they’re healed. I mean even to the point of a lady got up out of her wheelchair, another lady walked with a walker she could barely walk she started running after she listened. People have…I’ve had several people I think three now have had deafness in an ear and that’s been healed.

Sid: Actually public schools that are playing this for children that have ADD or autism.

Theresa:  Yes, what happens is they’ll be a special education teacher who attends one of my concerts or get’s my music and she decides to use it in her classroom and since there…she uses the instrumentals there are no lyrics to cause the school system to say “Well you can’t play that.”  So the Holy Spirit gets in there and speaks to children and love on them because my instrumentals are like lullabies from Jesus.

Sid: Let’s take a listen to we’re offering too, let’s listen to from the instrumental called “Bliss.”

Instrumental Selection called “Bliss.”  

Sid: Theresa you play 8 different flutes. Is it a little scary going into a studio and not having anything and just play what God shows you?

Theresa:  It was for a long time but I’ve gotten so used to it. The rush of the breath of the Lord blowing through me is so fabulous it’s such a high that I no longer am afraid, but for a long time it was a scary thing.  But in our concerts we do the same thing we do like two – half to three hour concerts and we have done what we call the seat of honor where we invite people to come up and sit in the seat of honor. We show them the twelve instruments and say “Which instrument do you wish to be blessed with?”  They pick the instrument of their blessing; we play them alive prophetic song tailor made for them and then I sing the interpretation by kneeling at their seat holding their hand and an impartation of the Father’s love comes through the eyes and in my voice. And people say “Their lives have been changed and transformed.” In fact it’s so exciting when you watch the person come to sit in the seat you can see what they’ve been through, you can see the crushing.

Sid: By the way did you get what she said?  She plays an instrument and just as someone speaks in tongues she then gives the English interpretation of what she’s played.

Sid: As a matter of fact I can’t understand how someone can even exist in this thing called life if you’re just a lukewarm Christian, I mean you’re mashugah, that’s a Hebrew word for you’re crazy.  I mean there is no other position once you’ve tasted the good things of God go all the way, go for the gold.  And according to the prophet Joel in the second chapter, you’re very familiar with it because that’s also quoted in the New Covenant in the second chapter of Joel 2:28 says “In the last days God’s going to pour out His spirit on all flesh.”  If you haven’t checked lately the thermometer we’re in the last days. He said that “Were going to have dreams and visions.”  And that’s why my guest is Jane Hamon, she is co-Pastor with her husband of Christian International Family Church in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida.  Many of you are familiar with her father-in-law Bill Hamon, a father of prophets if you will.  On yesterday’s broadcast I posed a question, and my question is, yes I do get dreams, and as a matter of fact I have had a couple of dreams that were not symbolic and I have said to God many times…and the ones that were not symbolic I mean they were literal dreams and they were wonderful dreams and it affected my entire future as a result as following it was almost like God told me to do something.  And He did not want me to make any mistakes so He literally showed it to me.  And I thought that was wonderful and I have prayed to God and I’ve said “God, just give me literal dreams and I will do them.”  But most of my dreams Jane are symbolic and I’m just so pragmatic and practical and I question my understanding of these dream. Have you ever felt that way and said “Lord why don’t You just tell me straight on and what is this symbolism business?”

Jane:  (Laughing) I absolutely have felt that way. You know Sid what I realized was that when Jesus came and began to teach the crowds even he taught through symbols because He communicated to the crowds thought things that we’ve come to call parables.  And really the parables are stories that what the scripture has to say many people in the crowd had no idea what He was talking about because they had symbolic messages.  And the truth is that whether we’re reading the Old Covenant or whether we’re reading the New Covenant we have to understand that God has always used symbols to communicate some of the truth that He wants to get across to us.  In the book of Isaiah when it says that we’re going to mount up with wings as eagles as we wait upon the Lord I don’t think that means that were going to sprout feathers and go jumping off of cliffs. (Laughing) I think that God is intending for us to understand that when He speaks to us in a picture that there’s a depth and a wealth of meaning that comes to us whenever we are communicated to in picture form.  A picture is worth a thousand words.

Sid: Listen I have a copy of your book “Dreams and Visions” here it’s a very simplistic, practical Biblical book that answers a lot of questions that I’ll pose to you this week and I’m sure a lot of other people have.  How did you happen to write this book?

Jane:   I felt the challenge really as I have been pastoring a church of very prophetic people that I found that many people were receiving dreams from the Lord but they really had no idea what to do with the dreams they had received.  On the other hand many people were telling me “Well, this one and that one get dreams but I don’t ever get a dream.”  And I believe that scientifically it’s proven that we all dream, I don’t believe that every dream is from God. I believe that there are dreams that are just fleshly or carnal dreams. I believe that there’s demonic dreams I believe that there are dreams that are very much spiritual dreams.  I wanted to write in a simple as form as I could a little bit of guide to help believers prophetic believers that are hearing from God be able to respond to what God is saying in a very proper, a very balanced and a very practical way to be able to aid in their Christian growth, and to be able to really prophetically discern the signs of the times.

Sid: But Jane this is not a book that you just sat down one day and researched, this is almost like a life book message because you not only teach based on the Bible, but you then give experiences and then explain them from the Bible.

Jane:  That’s right you know I had to go back; you know when I started having the experiences of dreams and visions I honestly to be just really honest I never heard one person ever tell me God speaks in dreams.  So I went back and started studying the scriptures, I started looking for dreams, for visions, and for prophecy.  Of course we got the prophets and the major-prophets and the minor-prophets and those are fairly obvious but what I found is that there is actually over 50 references to dreams and visions in the Bible.  And actually the entire foundation of the Jewish race actually came in Genesis chapter 15 when God dealt with a man named Abram who had a vision and then who had a dream.  And God actually cut covenant with Abraham in a dream. So I felt like this was very important to look at as part of our Christian foundation. That if Abraham was communicated within a dream, Jacob and Joseph and Solomon and Daniel and so many others both in the Old Covenant as well as in the New Covenant we find that God has always communicated to His people words of direction, words of comfort, words of insight, words of promise through dreams and through visions.

Sid: You know you quote proverbs 29 verse 18 and then give the Hebrew understanding of it.  Proverbs 29:18 says “Where there is no vision the people perish” but in the Hebrew it means “Where there is no vision or communication from the Lord the people perish.”  That’s strong!

Jane:  That’s a very strong word and I believe that being prophetic is not a sideline issue with God whatsoever.  I mean I believer that being prophetic is very much a mainstream part of our Christian walk, it’s really no optional.  I believe that we need to hear the voice of God, we need to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.  Obviously the written word, but also that that those things that God is uttering forth to us today.  You know in the Old Testament and Numbers chapter 12 verse 6 it says “If there be a prophet among you I will make myself known to him in a vision and I’ll speak to him in a dream.”  But that was during a time when God was really only speaking to a prophet here, or a prophet there to be able to be His mouth piece to His people; to be able to speak His mind and His purposes.  But we’re living in a day where God hasn’t just singled out just a prophet here or a prophet there, but He has an entire prophetic generation that He’s pouring His Spirit out upon.  As He’s pouring His Spirit out upon us we’re receiving power, we’re receiving revelation, and we’re receiving that unction of the Spirit to go out and change the world.

Sid: Now on yesterday’s broadcast, and we didn’t have enough time to pick up on it. You said that some people tell you they don’t dream and yet you said from a physiological viewpoint everyone dreams.  But if someone doesn’t remember their dreams it’s just like not dreaming what should they do?

Jane: Well, some of it is that sometimes we have not because we ask not and if you don’t actually realize that God wants to speak to you in a dream then you would have the approach that I said on yesterday’s program “Oh, it’s just a dream, it’s just an imagination, it’s really has no value for my life.”  But if you recognize that there’s value even when you sleeping that God can be communicating to you and speaking to you about things then you can pray.  What I recognize to people is to pray and ask God to give you a dream, and number two and be able to alert, and I know that that’s hard when you’re sleeping.  But believe it or not you can actually train yourself to sleep in a state of alertness ready to the voice of God.  Now one….

Sid: Now let me ask you a question you talk about having a piece of paper and writing your dream down.  But I don’t like to do that because I’m afraid that will wake me up and I won’t be able to go back to sleep.

Jane:  Well, there is a level of commitment when you are getting used to the concept of remembering your dream and that’s really the problem   Because I remember one time I pray I said “God I really need an answer about a certain situation” and I prayed and asked the Lord about it, and in the middle of the night I woke up and I had the most phenomenal dream.  It answered every question in life I ever asked for and I thought there’s no way…

Sid: I want that dream.

Jane:  (Laughing) I thought there’s no way I’ll ever forget that dream and I rolled over and I went back to sleep and in the morning I knew I had a dream but I couldn’t remember it.

Sid: That would motivate me to want to write it down.

Jane:  You know there is and if you don’t like writing things down I recommend to people maybe keep a little tape recorder that you can just pull off your bedside table, just click it on, just give the details of the dream. In Daniel chapter 7 it says “That Daniel just wrote down the main details of the dream,” you don’t have to go into…

Sid: Okay, you wake up in the morning you remember your dream you don’t have a clue at what God’s saying because it’s one of the symbolic dreams what do you do?

Jane:  Well, what I do is I found a really good pattern in the scripture for kind of breaking a dream down when Jesus gave the parable of the sower of the wheat and the tares. What He did He kind of…He gave them the whole story first, and then He went back and He kind of started breaking it down into bite size pieces.  So what I recommend is write the entire dream, or I want to say, or vision and basically the difference between the two is that the dream happens when your asleep and the vision happens when you’re awake okay. So write it down in its entirety and include the main details, and include the way it made you feel.  Did you feel alarmed? Did you feel at peace? Did you feel like you needed to pray? What did it make you feel? Because sometimes that’s part of God’s alerting spirit.  Then we like to take it and break it down into little symbols, each symbol and I like to make a list down one side of the page.  And then as I write by each symbol maybe the first two or three words that come to my mind.  Now some people say “Well, that’s leaning to the mind” but we have to remember we have the mind of Christ and the thing about symbols that I think is very important for the Body of Christ to understand is that is that there is no book of symbols, I wished that there was.

Sid: Yet, you do list a number of symbols in your book.

Jane:  And I do I list a number of symbols and what I do is I give an understanding of how I arrived at what that symbol meant to me okay. Now…

Sid: You know and this is awful I hate to stop but we’re out of time.

Sid: I’m going to make you a promise there’s going to be such a flow of God’s Spirit, that all things are possible.  My guests in the studio Michael and Cyndi Hinson I’m interviewing them on their brand new book I have copies in my hand.  Our office has plenty of them for you called “To Heal the Heart,” subtitled “To Life to the Fullest.”  Michael had a four day visitation from God.”  Tell me a little bit about that visitation Michael.

Michael:  This came out of sometime of calling out to the Lord and asking Him to show me my heart.  I had no idea that what I was asking; I was thinking that He would come and give me a pat on the back and tweak this and correct that and take some blinders off in this area.  When He came He came in His full glory and manifestation and when He did it was so overpowering; it wasn’t that He showed me individual things that I’ve done wrong in my life; He didn’t pull out some record book and say “Here’s what happened on this day.”  His glory started filling the very presence of where I was everywhere around me and it so lit up the room that when I was in it I was cowering simply because of the strength of His glory and the power.  Everything that was dark in me; anything that was self serving; anything that had a motive other than God’s purpose and plan it was like a dark spot in my heart.  It was like dark clouds showing up on a clear cloudy day they didn’t belong there. I could see every detail of them not because He had some record book with every wrong in it.  He did not want them there in me; what He wanted was that His glory to displace them, the light dispels the darkness, but the darkness what there because I had not repented of these things.  I had no idea that I was walking in this; I didn’t know that many of the things that I thought I was doing for God was serving myself.  There was many things that I thought I’d just done casually that I could see the truth of God’s hand in it in the very beginning.  He showed me my heart that I had never seen before; all the trials and the things I had gone through showing me those individual things the truth of the glory in them took place in me. I was overwhelmed because His glory was so strong that anything dark inside of me it made it almost impossible to be in His presence.  I repented for them as quickly as I could and went on to the next. More of His glory would shine and it would be harder for me to be in His presence more things inside of me that again I had a pure heart I believed.  I never thought for a moment that with every bit of my ability my hands were up in church, my heart was singing out to the Lord and there didn’t seem to be anything encumbering my relationship with Him.  I just wanted to be closer to Him so I asked Him to show me my heart; I had no idea what He was going to show me and I had no idea that kind of darkness could be in any person.  The people I pray for much less than my own heart; when God came and showed me the presence, when His presence filled me and surround me it was very difficult for me to breathe in His glory.  It wasn’t that I was taken up to Heaven; He came here and when He did again it was such a bright light it was such a fullness but it had no end to it, there wasn’t a starting point or an end to it it’s just all encompassing.  Everything about me, every motive, every intent it was as if there was a light shining on every single one.  And the ones that were pure just naturally fit in the scheme of things but those things they were like big banners that said this needs to change.  So God doesn’t come with some finger pointing at you for all the things, He wants to embrace you but anything inside of you that is contrary to His nature He’s going to keep you from being embraced.  Not because you don’t want it but it’s going to be there between you and Him until something is dealt with.

Sid: Many of you are saying “Oh, I know it will be difficult but I wish God would give me that type of a visitation.”  That’s why God did it for Michael because out of that visitation came this pure teaching of “Healing the Heart” so you can Live to the fullest. I’ve been making this book available for the last two weeks it’s a brand new book called “To Heal the Heart.” Michael I have been sensing the presence of God for healing, I don’t know what He wants to heal.  I do know one thing because I heard it as I started to say this, I do know that He wants to heal backs, he wants to heal backs right now in Yeshua, in Jesus Name.  Michael I know if you’ll pray God will flow.

Michael: Well Father, we come before you now in the Name of Jesus Christ and right now everyone that’s carrying burdens they know that they should not carry.  You’ve been carrying those waiting for God to move and change your heart, or change your situation or do something to make your life different.  Right now you need to do something, you need to release those cares, those burdens that you have been carrying.  You need to let go of those things that you have been trying to change and fix and for some of you need to line up with you know the Lord told you to do but you keep waiting for Him to somehow change His mind.  And His silence is not His approval; you need to release it even now.  In the Name of Jesus I speak on their behalf releasing things at Your altar, the weight of them we let go of now in Jesus Name.  We turn to You and we ask you to move on behalf even now we thank You Father, in Jesus Name we thank You, we thank You.  There’s some others you know who you are, sleeplessness at night the anxieties, you can’t find contentment in anything you do but you’ve been trying ever so.  You’ve been searching everywhere you can; you’ve lost intimacy in the things that were important to you.  Others very similar what you’ve done you’ve replaced it with busyness now, work is your focus, the hobbies are your focus; you’ve made something else more important, and you’ve lost that closeness and that intimacy with God and you want it back so badly.

Sid: And you know what, there are even people with ministry has become their focus rather than God.

Michael: Now they’re living off of the approval of the people and no longer asking God to be their one and only source of gratification in what they do.  Now they’re looking for that place very well.  I know that place very well, I was there not knowing before He came and showed up it was a completely different picture altogether.  This is so easy to do also, if that is you then just do this Father I repent and I return to my first love. 

Sid: Father I repent

Michael: And I return to my first love.   

Sid: And I return to my first love.

Michael:  You once had all of my heart.   

Sid: You once had all of my heart.

Michael:   And led every step I took.

Sid: And led every step I took.

Michael:   I repent even now.

Sid: I repent even now.

Michael:   And I choose to come home.

Sid: And I choose to come home.

Michael: And follow Your path.

Sid: And follow Your path.

Michael: In Jesus Name.

Sid: In Jesus Name.

Michael: There are others that you know that your heart has become callused and even as your listening to it now it doesn’t seem to mean anything like it used to.  You know your destination, you know the path that you’re on.  And you also know this there’s been no contentment in your life ever since then.  You’ve become busy and your head’s full of noise, and your hearts heavy, but there’s no contentment.  This is not the life that Jesus promised.  The life that Jesus promised is full of contentment and joy and even through your trials there is a peace, loneness is not there, and the drive is not there.  There is contentment beyond words; for those people I say this to you.  “Release it and let it go, run again to your First Love.”  Let things go that you are now think that you are mastering because they’ve mastered you, they’ve captured you and now you’re trying to find fulfillment in them and it’s just not there.  And just say this prayer. Father, I release these things.

Sid: Father, I release these things.

Michael: There is not fulfillment in them.

Sid: There is not fulfillment in them.

Michael: There is only fulfillment in You.

Sid: There is only fulfillment in You.

Michael: In Jesus Name.

Sid: In Jesus Name.

Michael: There are others that are dealing with loneliness and depression.  Some here have broken hearts, grief, there are still other’s here with anxieties and fears that are just eating at them.  These are easy things to take care of when you know the path to go on, but you can’t continue to do the same things you’re doing now and expect the outcome to be different.  What you need to do is make changes; changes in your own heart.  Some of you are actually thinking that as soon as some else changes things will be better.  The truth is that’s a lie. You can have the situation that you’re in right now as ugly as it may seem you can find joy by simply releasing these things and giving your heart to the Lord.  You may need to go back into the same things, but let’s lead you in a prayer that is simple to do this.  Father.

Sid: Father.

Michael: I lay my cares down at your altar.

Sid: I lay these cares down at your altar.

Michael: I give You my family.

Sid: I give You my family.

Michael: I give You my health.

Sid: I give You my health.

Michael: My marriage.

Sid: My marriage.

Michael: My finances.

Sid: My finances.

Michael: Even my job.

Sid: Even my job.

Michael: All of them came from You.

Sid: All of them came from You.

Michael: Their all Yours.

Sid: Their all Yours.

Michael: And I give them back to You.

Sid: And I give them back to You.

Michael: I cannot change my circumstance.

Sid: I cannot change my circumstance.

Michael: But I can change the way I serve You.

Sid: But I can change the way I serve You.

Michael:  I release them.

Sid:  I release them.

Michael: And I choose.

Sid: And I choose.

Michael: To follow You as You direct me.

Sid: To follow You as You direct me.

Michael:  In Jesus Name.

Sid: In Jesus Name.

Michael: And one last thing, there are some people that are flat out deceived and do you know how you know you’re deceived?  You don’t your deceived.  So let me give you the answer. Look at the fruit of your life, if you have joy and contentment in your heart? Are you sleeping through the night without effort?  Are you free, content, do you have the fullness of God, when you read the word does it come alive in you?  These things are symptoms of a life that is free and that is what God promised you. But if you don’t have it or if you have heaviness, if you have anxieties; now don’t misunderstand me all of us go through trials at some time or another, but the freedom God promises is different than this.  If you have the heaviness, the weight, the frustration, the sufferings, the anxieties, take a look because there is a reason for it and be willing to change your heart.  At least be willing to change your thinking God will change your heart.

Sid: Well, Mishpochah what Michael’s talking about this is the type of thing that he has the most anointed teaching from the Word of God that will set you free in all of these different arenas and he’s been teaching this for years and seen such fruit.

Sid: There are things that are stopping you and I believe one of the greatest spirits of the age that is trying to stop you from fulfilling your destiny, from having your happiness in your marriage and with your family.  From having your health be perfect from having your…from  being able to absolutely walk into your destiny from even hearing God’s voice clearer than you’ve ever heard it before is the spirit of the age, the spirit of fear.  And one of the things that Gary Whetstone that many people are suffering from is an absolute terror and fear of finances.  But before we talk about this, this book that you wrote, the research that you did; you didn’t just do it because there was a need you really felt God’s hand on this; explain.

Gary:  God gave me a mandate to research every cause and effect in the word of God that deals with fear.  How it affected everyone Biblical from the Old Testament patriarchs to our current day apostles that we read in the New Testament. It unveiled the major causes of fear and the how to see them clearly in there operation. And you know the word fear, and I found that there is an anachronism that kind of brings it clear to understanding it is F: false E: evidence A: appearing R: real; FEAR – False Evidence Appearing Real.  Whenever a person trusts in their history in their flesh they only have something that they know that they’ve done before, and therefore there is evidence that’s there and to step out into something or something that God initiates they feel the restriction.  I’m going to give you a scripture in just a moment.  There’s another cause that fear is here and these are the four major factors that I discovered in the word of God that will change everyone’s life.  A it is trusting the flesh, believe it is.  B, 2) is believing information as it naturally appears.  Reports, a doctor’s report, a financial report, any report that comes.  3) Is the sensory reactions that occur, when my senses are affected and fear is a reaction. 4) It is entertaining evil imagery.  Pictures that are in our mind, pictures of falling off a cliff, falling off a bridge, pictures or dying of suffocation, of having injury in life.

Sid: And by the way, these pictures are easy to come by if you just watch television or go to movies, or get on the internet, what about the addiction that’s going on now with pornography they say that’s the worse addiction than heroin.

Gary:  It is more profitable for those that are producing pornography than any of the major corporations out there because of the additive nature of that imagery of the mind.  Listen to this scripture in Roman’s Chapter 8 verse 15 it says “For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption whereby we cry ‘Abba Father, or Daddy God.’”  Whenever a person identifies limitation that’s where fear is the results.  If I wake up in the morning and I perceive I’m only going to make so much money today because this is my payroll I will then have fear to step out in new decisions.  I’m going to give you an example, I worked, I own my own corporations we were bringing in about 10 million dollars a year. One day I’m in a board meeting and God speaks to me “Go in a resign.”  This company made up 1/4^th of all of my income and I heard God put in my heart “Resign.”  I thought, “But that’s going to being to be 25% of I’ve got 40 employees, I’ve got trucks, we’ve got retail stores all over, manufactures wrapping business, I’ve got five corporations under me and this represents 25% of our business.  And I said “God, what do I do next?”  And I heard the voice of God say “Give them the representation of their product from the Mississippi all the way to Maine.” I never did that before Sid I had no idea how to do that, but I walked into the board meeting and I said “Gentleman I’d like to let you know today I appreciate being here, but I resigning as your wholesale distributor in this 4 state region.  Which was Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Maryland.  They just about past out because I was about 20% of their sales, and they said “You can’t, but what?”  I said “What I’m going to offer you is the entire Mississippi to Main territory and all I want is 15% commission. I said “But you don’t have to answer me right now, I’ll stay in my hotel for another hour or two before I fly back you can call me, and send me the contract; I appreciate our time together.”  And I walked out, no fear, no fear of losing 25%.  I get a phone call back in my hotel room, they agreed to it that one agreement created over $250,000 in profit the next year.  Instantaneous manifestation of revenue without any expense no warehousing, no wholesaling, no employees.

Sid: But fear would have stopped you from doing that but why did God want you to do it, I’m curious?

Gary:  Well, I was always supporting the gospel of Jesus Christ, I was always taking not just a tenth of our income, but we were selling heating equipment and I was going into the homeless, the people that had needs, we were providing hearing systems for them and I just wanted to see money flood the kingdom of God.  It had to go for the Kingdom of God I wasn’t in ministry yet, I was still working in the working world. Everything I knew I lived for was to see the Kingdom of God advance.  And that’s what He said, “If you seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness all these things will be added unto you.”  I believe people get created thoughts constantly from God but because of fear they don’t take action on them. They are so familiar with the limitations that they live in that the false evidence appearing real is the standard they live by; fear becomes their faith and they are resistant to the voice of God.

Sid: Can I tell you something. I was so fearful in a lot of the things that I’ve done in the ministry I’m in but I so trusted God that it trumped my fear. I know as a fact, if I hadn’t trusted God I would have never have had this ministry that God’s entrusted to me today, never.

Gary: Absolutely not, if we ever allow or history to dictate our next steps we we’ll never take the steps God’s ordained because bondage is what we’re familiar with.  It’s what we’re comfortable with.  So many people think faith is about getting free from conflict, faith isn’t about getting free from conflict faith is about conquering your next opposition.  It’s about ceasing new territory, it’s about taking what God has given to you as inheritance and crippling everything that has defeated and demeaned you.  People are held by fear in their relationships; they’re afraid to speak a word to their teenagers because they’re afraid of the repercussions of it.  People are afraid to exude love because they’re afraid to be hurt, people are afraid of taking out and stepping out financially even trusting God in giving because they think “What happens when the money’s gone, how’s God going to get it to me.”  Fear has had such an overwhelming crippling affect if has clipped people at the knees and reduced them to bow to that power.

Sid: Give me an example in your life, for instance you’re a pastor, you’ve got to get a new church, it’s going to cost 4½ million dollars and you know it might….that was an impossibility in the natural; what did you do so that you didn’t bow to fear?

Gary: I’m in early morning prayer and I need 1 million dollars in cash within in just like in a month or two I mean this thing was very close in time and I had no money.  And God spoke to me “Go out in the parking lot, face the church,” I looked at this building 4½ million dollar building it is screaming at me.”  God then spoke to my heart.  He then said “Go downtown Wilmington.”  I drive down Wilmington and I look at these high rise buildings and they weren’t saying anything to me. God spoke to my spirit he said “Make that building speak like those building, the other buildings were $52,000,000 buildings.”  So I went back to the building and I command you to bow in the name of Jesus I commanded that fear to come out and loose it’s hold from my life.”  And I got the voice of the building to silence, the next thing that happened was an overwhelming thought of inviting 20 families into my living room.   One of them we were just paying their electric bill the month before, another one I helped bail out of prison because she had been arrested for prostitution.  Another one they had just been in a car accident and had no possibility of getting their food together, we’d been feeding them.  And I went through this 20 people…

Sid: And so this is the group you gathered to get your 4½ million? (Laughing) that’s cuckoo.

Gary:  I mean really you think you’d think you’d invite the people that have the money that had the influence and God said “You select the people I tell you bring them to your living room.”  We all got together in the living room, we started praying, worshiping God and I said “Now I want to tell you why you’re here, God spoke to me that every one of you is going to give $20,000 each into this building project, we’re going to stand up on Sunday make a decree before the church and they’re going to give the other half a million dollars we’re going to make this million dollars manifest in the next 30 days.  They looked at me and the one lady that I help bail out of jail she said “You know what if he didn’t come up with that extra money I wouldn’t have been sitting here today, I’m just going to believe God with him.”  They all agreed just to believe God with me, do you know that within that time all the money manifested.  One of the families that were there gave $80,000 within the 90 days

Sid: How could they do that?

Gary:  They had money by pouring in from all kinds of dimensions I mean out of nowhere.  One person the one that got in the car accident it was just a little fender bender they had hurt their leg, they ended up having a quick insurance settlement for $60,000 because of the bump on the leg, didn’t even get any surgery.

Sid: Hmm.

Gary:   Another person ended up, I don’t know how they got the money they just ended up with $100,000 it was just a floodgate of money poured into people.

Sid: Okay and here’s the thing that you must understand God is not a respecter of person’s He’s a respecter of truth, spiritual truth and it’s time whatever area in your life that you’re not able to get a victory in it’s time to make fear bow.

Sid: I’ve been talking all this week to another Jewish believer in the Messiah Lonnie Lane who happens to be the International Prayer co-Coordinator for Messianic Vision. Of course I come from a traditional Jewish background, and the thing that is so wonderful is God interested and desirous for entire families to come to know Him. In my life, every member of my immediate Jewish family has come to know the Messiah, and in Lonnie Lanes life it is so wonderful. We’ve already found out that Lonnie came to know the Messiah, and Lonnie’s father came to know the Messiah; Lonnie’s brother came to know the Messiah, but what about your mother-in-law. Tell me about her.

Lonnie: Well I started doing Bible studies with my mother and my mother-in-law. I would tell them what the Old Testament had to say about who the Messiah would be, and here’s the fulfillment in the New Testament. We would go through this week after week, but somehow I could never get any closure for either one of them. Then one day my mother was just… it just all fell together for her. She had been afraid that her mother, who she assumed was in heaven was watching her and would be unhappy with her if she came to the Messiah. It was raining cats and dogs the night I got saved with thunder and lightning, and she was sure it was because her mother was angry, and I tried to tell her mother didn’t have that kind of authority or power.

Sid: (Laughing)

Lonnie: Finally it just all went together for her, and she accepted the Lord and got healed of migraine headaches. She’s the one… in fact that night we were supposed to have some Israeli’s for dinner, and I had made a very special dinner, and the Israeli’s cancelled.  I had left everything on the table because I said “Lord you didn’t have me make all this special kosher dinner just for nothing, you knew this would get cancelled. So I’m going to leave it there and see for what reason you had me make this celebration.” That was the day that my mother got saved where we went to an Aglow luncheon. So we had cause for celebration; so we called my mother-in-law, who’d been at the luncheon with us, she came too. When my mother had told she had accepted the Lord because she had left the luncheon early, she said “Oh I’m so jealous.” So I said to her “You can accept the Lord now too” and she said “Well it just doesn’t seem to be my time.” That’s what she kept saying. Finally that Yom Kippur that same year, the Lord told me to call my mother-in-law who was somewhat…

Sid: I love it when you say that Lonnie because I’m reminded of that young Jewish girl who went to her rabbi and said “How come God doesn’t talk to us anymore today?”

Lonnie: Oh He does, oh bless the Lord He does and I thank Him for ears to hear. He told me on this Yom Kippur, it’s a good thing I knew His voice because when you think God is saying to you on Yom Kippur “Call your mother-in-law and take her to the mall for lunch.” You know it’s got to be God because that’s not something you would expect not to do.

Sid: No.

Lonnie: To tell you to go eat first of all, or go to the mall on the holiest day of the year. I obeyed and took my mother-in-law to lunch at the mall, and it was during a conversation there when I said to her “Mom why do you keep saying it’s not my time? What do you think is your time?” She said “Well I’m waiting for my testimony” because I had given tapes and books, and watching things on television, she had been hearing so many just extraordinary testimonies that she was waiting for hers to happen. When I said to her “Well for a Jewish woman to come to see who the Messiah is, is just as extraordinary as any of these other things that you’ve heard.” I said “Do you know who He is?” She said “Oh yeah I know that He is the Messiah” I said “You know He died for your sins?” She said “Oh yes I know that.” So I said “Well you could accept Him right now.” “Oh I didn’t know that” she said, “I can do it now?” I said “Yes” and she took my hand and she said “Lord I’m sorry it took me so long, I didn’t understand would you please come into my heart and fill me with Your Spirit and forgive me for my sins.” She got gloriously saved right there in the mall.

Sid: This is on Yom Kippur?

Lonnie: In the mall on Yom Kippur.

Sid: You know Lonnie we really didn’t finish about your brother Michael. Michael on his birthday came to know the Messiah…

Lonnie: Yes he did.

Sid: What about the fact that he spent all those years in Yoga type meditation, and taking various… well marijuana I know. From what I understand his mind was so destroyed from those years with the guru and everything that he couldn’t even an intelligent sentence.

Lonnie: Well the amazing thing is that when he got saved first he saw some demons that were in his house. He saw them in his dog and we told him “The name of Yeshua has authority over the demons.” When he saw them he told the demon to leave and he actually saw the demon leave, and at that point he also got delivered form the drugs, from marijuana. If tried to put one in his mouth he go too nauseous to be able to do that. At the same time he started reading things like Andrew Murray’s “The Power of the Blood.” He said he understood spiritual dynamics because he had been involved with the other team for several years. Now that he knew who Yeshua was he started praying for people. Somebody with cancer was healed, somebody in a neck brace got to take the brace off. He just got so completely transferred from the dominion of darkness…

Sid: What about his mind?

Lonnie: Well he wound up going to Bible school and getting straight A’s in all the Bible classes. He didn’t do so well in the English and the history, but in everything that had to do with the Bible he got straight A’s. He had not even been able to do well in high school because he had petit mal and the Lord healed that too. So he’s an extraordinary Bible teacher now, and if you ask him where any verse is anywhere in the Bible he knows where it is and where to go. He can just be such a spontaneous teacher of the word.

Sid: You know Lonnie you have a lot to be grateful for.

Lonnie: Oh I do, and I am.

Sid: I have a lot to be grateful for. As your sharing a little bit about Michael I’m thinking about myself. I’m thinking about where I would be today if it wasn’t, not for me, but for God having mercy on me it was that simple.

Lonnie: Amen.

Sid: If He had not had mercy on me, I could tell you I would be in one of three places; I would be in a mental institution, or I would be in prison, or I would dead without knowing the Messiah, meaning eternity separated from God in hell with knowledge of the suffering that is going on. Now none of those three were very good choices. For me I came from a traditional Jewish background; I had a college degree; I got married young, age twenty-nine I decided there had to be something more. In fact I wrote a song by that title in college called “There Must Be Something More.” Not one Christian shared Jesus with me, not one, my entire life up until that point. The only thing I knew about Jesus Lonnie is I read in a book of “Ripley’s Amazing Believe It or Not Facts” that Jesus is Jewish. I got so angry I went to my parents and my mother said “Yes I think Jesus is Jewish.” I mean doesn’t Jesus have a better witness than Mr. Ripley? Anyway, I left my wife, I’m not proud of it; I left my daughter and I went searching for happiness and got involved in the New Age. I’m amazed in the number of Jewish people that are involved in the New Age, and the number of people who call themselves Christians that are involved in the New Age. One Christian man, for the first time a Christian man started witnessing to me. He showed me Deuteronomy 18, and he showed me that every single thing that I, and all the other Jewish people, and I might add nuns and priests, and ministers, we’re all dabbling in was an abomination called spiritual adultery, and people were stoned to death in the days of Moses. Here it’s worse, you have an eternity separated from God. You can’t even turn on TV today without seeing something about the New Age or the occult. So I almost lost my life, I didn’t even want to live. I wanted to commit suicide, I mean life was just too hard. I had so much fear that there was just no purpose in living. Jesus walked into my bedroom; he restored my mind; he restored my family; he reunited me with my wife, and my daughter. Joy and I have celebrated 43 years of marriage now; my daughter now is married with grand-daughters to a Godly man they all know the Messiah. My whole family, my Jewish mother, my Jewish father came to know the Messiah. I mean God is such a good God, and this is God’s moment in history for Jewish people to come to know Him. This is His moment. Lonnie we would be remiss if we didn’t say God loves all people; He loves Jewish people; He loves Gentile people; He loves Muslims; He loves Hindus; He loves all people, but will you love Him? There’s no other name given unto men in heaven and earth in which we must be saved, but the name of Yeshua, the name of Jesus. If you repent of your sins tell God you’re sorry for the sins. What sins have you committed? Lying, stealing, adultery… you name it look at the 10 Commandments, you know them even if they’re not posted in schools. Repent tell God you’re sorry ask for His help to be free and believe Jesus died for your sins, then read your Bible live for Him.

Sid: What would make someone red hot for Messiah?  What about having a granddaughter that has the gift of discernment that at age 4 ½ is caught up into the heavenlies has an encounter with Jesus. Comes back and has the gift of discernment, can see angels, can see demons, knows things that only God could have told her.  I’d say that would make you red hot.  I have the grandparents of Victoria the little girl, and the grandparent’s names are Don and Mary Jo Pennington. I’m speaking to them at their home in Brandon, Florida.  On September 2^nd 2003 there was a swimming party and you had your granddaughter Victoria there in your backyard.  And you live in Florida and you’re having fun and you decide to go on the slide tell me about that.

Mary Jo: Well, as it was unusual for me to want to go up the slide because I had been crippled but the lord had helped me, and I just wanted strong but my knees were well.  But I climbed up very slowly up the ladder to our high sliding board and was standing up on top of it trying to figure out how to sit down and my little granddaughter said Mary Jo can I come up there and sit down with you?  And I said “Sure.”  Well she scampered right straight up behind me and I didn’t know it but I was still struggling to get down, seated on top of the sliding board and suddenly my feet gave way and I fell from 18 or 20 inches up just flat “Bam!” right down on the sliding board.  My body hit my granddaughter and knocked her off backwards as she was hurled about six feet back just from the force of the blow from my body hitting her.  And I screamed oh God I’ve broken my baby and she should have been screaming but she didn’t say anything.

Sid: Now how high above the ground was this?

Mary Jo:  Her head was about 9 feet up.

Sid: So the fall was a 9 foot fall.

Mary Jo:  Yes, it was a 9 foot fall with the force of me you know knocking her as though she’d been hit with a great force.

Sid:  So she should have been dead; no wonder you cried that.

Mary Jo:  Yes.

Sid: You must have had as much horror and fear as a human could have.

Mary Jo:  My heart was actually broken, I was so devastated. I couldn’t stop saying and I couldn’t turn to see her because she was straight behind me.  And then suddenly I could see her over to the side she somehow had come over to my view and all I had to do is look to the side. And I couldn’t take my eyes off of her I thought if I took my eyes off of her she’d break into a million pieces.  But my husband saw what happened would you like for him to tell you what he saw?

Sid: Yes, if you would put Don on the phone right now.

Don: Hello.  

Sid: Hi Don you were watching this going on you had to be as horrified as your wife Ma Jo.

Don: I just gasped I was choking on whatever I was trying to say.   

Sid: And by profession tell me what you do, what your profession is.

Don: I’m an engineer.   

Sid: Okay so you’re a real logical minded type of individual, tell me what you saw with your eyes.

Don: I was in the pool; we had another little boy with us that we were taking care of that day was about 2 years old and I was trying to keep him from being afraid in the water.  And I was standing down in the pool close to where the sliding board is.  And I heard this noise from Mary Jo come out and says “Oh God I’ve broken my baby.”  And I looked up and I saw Victoria just flying backwards off the sliding board.  And she turned; she stretched out backward horizontal with her head going back away from the slide. And then I couldn’t believe what I was seeing it was like I was seeing in slow motion.  And she turned 180 degrees with her feet pointed in the other direction and her head towards the sliding board instead of away from it and she started floating towards the concrete and moved over about 4 feet and she landed about 6 feet away from the sliding board and 4 feet off the side from where she should have fallen if she went straight down which she should have done.

Sid: Now how do you account for her changing positions in the air?

Don:  Well, that’s what my engineering mind couldn’t grab a hold of.  I could see her you know going backwards and maybe moving a little bit but turning in the air I just couldn’t grasp that.  And also she moved off to the side instead of going straight back and straight down; she moved over about four 4 off to the side.

Sid: Okay, in effect she’s 9 feet above the ground; it’s cement I assume on the ground correct?

Don:  Correct.

Sid: Alright, so when someone falls with a force as your wife accidentally hit her backed into her and she falls 9 feet down she should have been history.

Don: That’s right.   

Sid: So you ran to her and what happened?

Don: Well I had to get this little boy I had with me in a safe place and I got to her as quickly…   

Sid: My goodness you are logical I don’t know whether I could have been that rational but go ahead.

Don: But of course I want very rational at that time at all but it was just a matter of seconds because I felt like to get out of the pool and get to her.  And she was trying to get up. and she said “I’m okay grandpa, I’m okay, I’m okay, I’m okay.  But I made her lay still until I check her all over and I started with her head and feeling for or looking for any damage and feeling for any damage and gently down her back and her arms and her legs and they all moved okay.  And I decided that there wasn’t any blood of anything broken or dangling I said “Okay you can get up now.”  And I did and she had two little marks on her, her right elbow had a little scrape on it that didn’t even bleed and a little bit of pink mark on her left hand, on the palm of her hand, you know where it made contact with the…   

Sid: When you realized that she was fine; what were your first thoughts? I mean you went from shock and fear and horror to almost I would think almost unbelief.

Don: Unbelief and then it finally dawned on us that you know we just witnessed a miracle that God had protected her and saved her from great harm.

Sid: Now again is there any way, short of a miracle, that she should have had nothing more than a scratch?

Don: Absolutely not in fact a friend of our family just a few months ago fell off an 8 foot step ladder when he was working on the gutters and it killed him.   

Sid: Hmm. I’ll tell you what if you would put your wife her name is Mary Jo and I guess the family calls her Ma Jo, put Ma Jo back on the telephone.

Don: Okay hold on please.   

Sid: Okay, Ma Jo your husband sees this miracle, the last thing that you’ve said I think you said “I broke my baby.”

Mary Jo:   Yes.

Sid: Now you realize she’s okay what’s going on with you?

Mary Jo:  Well I was still stuck at the top and I couldn’t get down any other way but to slide down into the water and I knew that if she didn’t get right back on it she would be afraid of it all her life so I asked Grandpa to hand her up to me.  And he did and I wrapped my arms around her and we slid down into the water together and then we came in to take shower and I was praising God so loud, so long and thanking Him for saving her life that she finally said “I’m okay Ma Jo alright” she heard enough.  It was enough of that because she was just fine. And then she just didn’t say anything to us, she played with the little boy that was there and the first time that we knew that there was anything different that happened beside this wonderful miracle, that spared her life, was when her Momma called on the way home and checked on her and she said “Momma I’m not broken, Ma Jo knocked me off the slide, but I’m not broken.” And she said, “I heard God yell, save the children catch Victoria and then 6 big, big, big angles caught me and zoom they took me right up to heaven.

Sid: And remember Mispochah she’s 4 ½ years old now and she’s…this was a few years ago she’s 7 today, but this is like a book of Acts type of an experience. Did she tell you much more that occurred?

Mary Jo: Well, her mother was just speechless and she took the phone she said, “Give the phone back to Ma Jo” and she said “Did you hear that?” I said “Yes, I heard it but she hadn’t said anything about it all day.” And we were just so stunned she couldn’t think of a thing to say and hung up, the mother did so I turned around to Victoria and start asking real smart questions “Like how big were the angels?” You know I was just too stunned to ask intelligent questions.  And she told us how big they were and that when they held her hand with their warm hands they were this wide like 10 – 12 inches wide that her hand glowed too.  It made her…when she held them, when they held her they made her shine like a light bulb the glory of them emanated out through her she could see her body in her hands shinning.   

Sid: Now you realize as your sharing right now there is such a presence of God on the words that you’re speaking that although I don’t have the gift of discernment to see I feel the presence of God over what you’re saying. I have a book in my hand it called “Six Big, Big, Big Angels” of which you wrote and these were based on tape recordings of all the visitations and experiences that your Granddaughter Victoria had in this experience and many other experiences.  Why did you write this book?

Mary Jo:  Well, we had to write it the Lord spoke to us and told us to write it, write down everything. One minister that we tried to share a little bit said “Write down every word she says.” And as we gathered all this material and I transcribed it from the tapes God spoke to me and I had to get it into book form because there’s so many people that need to know what she saw once she got to Heaven.

Sid: You know I’m going to read a comment on the book by Wayne Anderson; he’s from the International Apostolic Ministries and he said quote “The first time that I told Victoria’s story several people reportedly began to have open visions of Heaven and some of those visions went on for days.”  Are you getting supernatural reports like this from the book from other people?

Mary Jo:  Well the book is brand new it hasn’t been out long, but two different people have called that they see a supernatural purple glow between the pages as they turn the pages and they feel the presence of the Holy Spirit as they read it.

Sid: Well, I can tell you that as I read the book and as I talk to you there is an awesome presence of God.  There’s some, listen would you like to see Heaven from a child’s perspective?

Sid: I’m going to tell you something my guest is so red hot for the Messiah that even if you don’t read his books and get his tapes it’s going to pour out of the tapes and out of the radio right now.  Now Steve on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that a man I’m very familiar with Carlos Anacondia from Argentina I mean this guy has had such miracles and such deliverance and so many people saved and you walked up and you gave him a hand signal hit me on the forehead and he hit you and a ton of God’s power was deposited in you.  And you haven’t been the same since, but just out of curiosity, you went out for just a meeting and at the Brownsville church in Pensacola, Florida, and that turned into a meeting in which over 4 million people attended because there were such power radiating all over that congregation.  People were saved in amazing numbers, you were telling me that even the school system was affected, tell me about that.

Steve: Oh, they would call us because kids were falling out under the power in the hallways and one principal had several kids laid out in his office, and they had the paramedics there trying to resuscitate them with oxygen. You know the bottom line is God was moving Sid.  And I’m going to fast forward just a little bit because it just a revival it’s a move of God it has nothing to do with a building okay, you go back to Azusa right now and it’s a parking lot.  Okay it had nothing to do with the building it had to do with the Spirit of God; and so the revival moved, God touched and it went on for years and years and years.  Later I moved on, my wife and I moved on, we worked – we had previously after we worked in Argentina for 7 years, let me back up a second.  We worked for there for 7 years and we went to Russia, planted a church, we had planted 12 churches in Argentina, build an orphanage and I’m not bragging this is just what young people do when they’re on fire.  And then I read in a magazine about a move of God in England. I read in Time magazine so I went over there and Sandy Miller prayed for me in the Anglican church and I always if there’s a move of God Sid I’ve always gone on after it okay.  If you told me that there was a 12 year old girl in a certain town that God is using mightily under signs and wonders, I would go, I would go, if it was legitimate I would go to receive a touch from God period.  And so people would say, “Well, if God going to move He’ll come to our church and move,” whatever, whatever.  Why don’t you do both, why don’t you just pray that He’ll come to your church and why don’t you go after him also.

Sid: Well, you know that is a hunger, help me out I have this hunger but I don’t know how to answer this “How can someone listening to us right now have that kind of hunger for God?”

Steve: Well, it’s not that difficult, what we try to do is manufacture some type of relationship with Jesus.  We either know Him or you don’t. The way you know Him is you ask Him to forgive you of your sins and to come into your live and right now any one that doesn’t know Jesus, any one that doesn’t know Yeshua, you don’t know the Lord you can pray right now.  And say “Jesus, forgive me I have sinned, wash me, come into my life, be my Lord, my Savior, my very best friend.”  It’s not the length of your prayer my friend it is the quality of your prayer.  So I have a relationship with Jesus and He knows it, He can down load into my spirit anything because I love Him.  And if you love Him Sid the Bible says you’ll do what He asks you to do.  And you look at America, the reason we’re so messed up in the United States of America and the western church is because we say we love Him but we don’t follow Him.  And so that’s probably another whole other broadcast.

Sid: Tell me I want you to pick one out of the 1000’s if not 10’s of 1000’s of miracles that you saw in Pensacola, I want you to pick one and tell me about it.

Steve: Well, you’re being difficult now because I don’t talk about miracles unless they’re validated. So we spend time validating and one particular miracle which astounded me and you know people were always coming up Sid with x-rays before and after and all of this.  And you know I’d say “Glory to God.”  And if it were Spanish I’d say “Gloria a Dios que Él ha hecho algo maravilloso” glory to God He’s done something marvelous. There is one girl who came Sid and she was consumed with cancer, 15 years old wearing a baseball cap, skinny as a rail probably weighed I don’t know 80 pounds and she was dying and she was sent to us by a particular organization that let people that are dying, kids that are dying have their last request.  And she decided rather than go to Disney World or somewhere like that she decided to come to the Brownsville revival.  And remember we had been on CNN, Good Morning America, and Newsweek and it goes on and on. So people were being hit by this revival from all angles.  It wasn’t just a like a Christian sponsored thing, God was moving. So she told her parents she wanted to come down here, the organization OK’d it, they came down and this is one of the only times I ever made a show as far as bringing someone forward.  But God really spoke to me and said “We need to pray for her publicly.”  We did, prayed for her publicly Sid and two weeks later I received a letter, and this was back before emails, I received a letter from her father saying that they had had the MRI’s, the PET scans and the investigative work done on her and that she was cancer free. Well, fast-forward years okay that was back in 1998. Okay here we are years later, okay several years later way after the miracle we contacted her and my secretary had her number contacted her and she had moved out west she was totally clean of cancer, she had graduated from a university and she gave God all the glory for touching her.  So miracles like that we should not be surprised and right now if there’s somebody that you’re going “My God why won’t that happen to me?”  It can happen to you my friend, in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth I’m believing God for a healing touch in your body, I’m believing God to raise you up.  Cancer I rebuke you in Jesus Name, satin you have no authority over this man over this woman, over this child in Jesus Name we bind you in Jesus Name. We speak healing in Jesus Name.

Sid: Steve I believe people all over the world are being healed at this moment, but I have to take you to a point May 2011.  You’ve seen people healed all over the world, you’re on your deathbed in 2001 they discovered melanoma it had metastasized, and there was really no hope but you went to everyone you knew.  You were as hungry to be healed, obviously you’re a young man you’re at really everything that you’ve been trained for is for this moment.  And you know that it’s not God’s will you’re going to die but you get worse and worse and worse. On Mary 2011 you’re on your death bed; what happened?

Steve:  Well, for those of you that are experiencing the tormenting effects of cancer or if you know somebody.  I’ve never met a family that doesn’t know about cancer, somebody a friend, a neighbor. What happened to me was I had many many, many chemo therapies and I’m not going to go through them Sid in this broadcast but some of them lasted 9 months.  One particular chemo therapy they would tie men with straps to the bed because the influx of the poison, which that’s poison, chemo is poison would cause them to violently shake and then throw the bed over.  And anyway I went through 9 months of that and then 8 months of another one and 7 months of another one and finally my body gave up.  I was at the point where it was over and the authorities came into my room and they looked at me and I couldn’t walk, and I couldn’t talk I could barely talk and I didn’t know my wife’s name.  I called her George, and I’d look straight at her and called her George, I had lost everything.  And I knew that it was over for me and the doctors told my wife that “I’ve got a few days and to go ahead and make preparations.”  And so she bought two burial plots one for her and one for me and she planned my funeral in the room I’m sitting in right now.  She planned my funeral and wept, (crying) because the man she had been married to for 3 decades was dying. And now the authorities who know all about the physical body was saying “It’s over, there’s nothing more that can be done.”  And I turned to her and I said “Jerry, I’m going to die so take me off everything, just take me off everything and I know that it’s going to be violent but take me off every drug.”  Because everything shut down Sid, my liver, my kidneys, everything stopped. I’m not going to get graphic with the audience but it was horrible, it was horrible.  She slowly and she slowly weaned me off the medication and we’re talking about a period of many, many, many, horrific months but God slowly worked a miracle and staff would come in and they’ve help me walk a few feet; I couldn’t walk 50 feet.   And slowly but surely God began to restore me and I can’t put a finger on when it happened, all I know is that God touched me.  Now am I still dealing with cancer?  “Yeah, I still have some affects, and I don’t know what’s going on but let me tell you “I live a full life, I work from 14 to 18 hours a day, I preach, I laid hands the other day on at least 800 people…

Sid: I don’t know if I could do that Steve. (Laughing) Steve our time is up.

Sid:  I am so tired of the Messiah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob being represented by people think that their relationship with God is based on 1 or 2 or 3 hours on a Saturday, 1 or 2 or 3 hours on a Sunday.  They don’t understand He’s either Lord of all, or He’s not Lord at all. You have been conned thinking that the purpose in life is to segment have your life and have a nice balanced life. You are out of balance, you are abnormal unless Jesus is Lord of everything. Unless you have intimacy with God don’t settle for counterfeit religion, settle for intimacy with the living God. Recognize that there is a call of God on your life and He has a purpose and a destiny that no one will do better than you. He has not rejected you no matter how many bad things you’ve done called sin. If you repent, turn from your sins, He is just and faithful to forgive you of all unrighteousness. Now I have on the telephone Ayelet and Sean Steckbeck from Jerusalem, Israel. They’re in the United States, and if you understand what happened to Ayelet, if you understand a visitation that she had, that is the type of thing that is going on with Jewish people worldwide right now. God has created you, in other words, many of you are crying out to God saying “God what is my destiny? God what is my purpose?” Well if you won’t do what is in writing in the New Covenant, why should you hear a prophetic word? This is what the New Covenant says, it says in Romans 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.” Now on yesterday’s broadcast we found out, and I’ll recap for you. Ayelet was raised on an atheistic kibbutz, that’s a communal situation in Israel, but she always knew there was a God. She always talked to God, she always prayed to God, then her brother died in the war. When she went into the army she had all these emotions. She became suicidal, literally she had a God visitation, and she saw what were to happen if she killed herself. So she said “I’ve got to find out more about this God.” So she went to the only option she thought was available at the time, and that was Orthodox Judaism. She literally joined a school of higher education called a Yeshiva for women, for Orthodox women. It was at that Yeshiva she heard there was Messiah, so she started praying every day for the Messiah to live inside of her. Low and behold she had another God visitation, she still didn’t know who Jesus was, and she started going to a meeting of believers. She had a tape of a prophecy she brought to the Yeshiva, but it had the name of Jesus. She tried to erase it, but just would not erase. Then 2 of her friends who were believers started talking to her, and one of her friends gave her a New Testament. Ayelet what did you do with this New Testament?

Ayelet:  I decided to take and read it, and I took it to the dorms, I hid it. When everybody left I started reading. I was just really amazed to see who Yeshua really was. I fell in love with Him. The most amazing for me was that I had so many questions that I stopped asking the rabbis because they didn’t really know what to do with my questions, and Yeshua had an answer for every question that I had.

Sid:  Now was He answering you in your spirit, or just by reading?

Ayelet:  In the Bible, in the New Testament. What He taught and is teaching in the New Testament on the sermon on the mountain, or different other teachings or parables that He taught, were just answers for a lot of questions that I had.

Sid:  Just before Yom Kippur in Israel, your friend said something that was startling to you that Jesus was your Yom Kippur. What did that mean to you.

Ayelet:  [Laughing] That really confused me because as an Israeli Yom Kippur is such a big thing. How can someone be Yom Kippur, I really didn’t understand, but I wanted to know from God I didn’t want to miss it if it was something from God. So I was praying and I was asking God if I was supposed to do Yom Kippur. Every time I asked Him, and I probably asked like 53 times, every time I asked the Bible opened up to Isaiah 53. It was the first time I read that scripture, but I understand that it was about Yeshua. I didn’t understand all of it, but I understood if He was the atonement then I don’t need to fast to receive atonement.

Sid:  But even though you understood He was the atonement, you still felt Yeshua was hidden from you. What did you mean by that?

Ayelet:  I felt that He was hidden because in Israel we don’t hear about Him, and if we hear it’s usually negative. So I practically knew nothing about who He was, what He did. I wasn’t given the chance to check it for myself; if I believed in it, if I wanted it.

Sid:  But you began crying out to Him.

Ayelet:  Yes.

Sid:  Then you went through a mikvah, which Christians call a baptism. Why did you do that?

Ayelet:  Well it was Yom Kippur and the community I was with it was a tradition for the single girls to go to the mikvah on Yom Kippur day. So I went that day.

Sid:  When you went under the waters what came out of your mouth?

Ayelet:  It just came out “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”

Sid:  Who told you to say that?

Ayelet:  One of my friends said, one of the believing friends, said to do that. I told her “No way!” [Laughing] But when I was under the water it just happened.

Sid:  Did anyone hear you?

Ayelet:  No. [Laughing]

Sid:  [Laughing] So then, you’re still are not 100% convinced, but you go to a prayer meeting and you had an unexpected visitor.

Ayelet:  Yes. I went again to Ruth Heflin’s prayer house and it was already on Yom Kippur, and in the prayer I just saw Yeshua. He just came and He stretched His arms and He said “Welcome.” No one led me in a sinners prayer, years later I heard someone do it so I just covered it just in case, but in that moment that’s how He received me, and that’s how I received Him into my heart as my Messiah.

Sid:  And then you came to the United States and you went to a revival that I went to many times in Brownsville. It was one of the biggest revival meetings in modern day history. Why did you go there?

Ayelet:  Well I got saved in 96, and through these few years I went to America for a few revival places that I knew. I was just very hungry for the Holy Spirit for God to move in my life. That year in 2000 I came to the Brownsville church in Pensacola that I heard a lot of, and I just wanted a touch from God.

Sid:  You went to their prayer meeting, and I led their prayer meeting once or twice. I loved what was going on there. They had all the different flags and you pray for the countries, and you saw the flag of Israel, but there was someone there that night, and I have him on the phone who later became your husband, that’s Sean. Is it true that you heard an audible voice that Sean would be your husband?

Ayelet:  Yeah I did, but not that night though.  That night I didn’t notice him, I was praying, they asked me to pray in Hebrew.

Sid:  Well Sean did you notice her?

Sean:  Oh yeah.

Sean and Ayelet: [Laughing]

Sid:  Well you had a call of God to go to Israel, you’re not a believer but you’ve been a believer a great deal of your life. So you did notice her. How did the two of you get together?

Sean:  Well when I saw her at the prayer that day, you know I wasn’t really interested dating you know. Ayelet my wife was my first kiss just to tell you I had been going after God my whole life. You know I wanted to be on the mission field my whole life. I was going to the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry, which it doesn’t exist anymore, but at that time it did. When I was… I was a server at a restaurant there and I was serving, and an older lady came up to me and, I didn’t know her at all. She came up to me and she says “I don’t know you, but I was on a 40 day fast, and the Lord told me to come… I was driving  past this restaurant and the Lord told me to stop my car, come into this restaurant and I would meet a young man in here called to Israel.” She said she argued with the Lord for a while because…

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with the Kylstras, and I know you came back. Tell me the keys that God has revealed to you.

CHESTER: It simple just like you said. But, and these four keys are already known, Sid. But what He showed us is they need to be dealt together. It’s almost like putting all four keys in the locks at the same time.

SID: Like’s it’s integrated would be the word.

CHESTER: That’s the word we use. Integrated, interrelated. So the first one is very simple. It comes out of the second commandment where we pick up our family stuff. It just gets passed down through the generations until someone takes it to the cross. So I entered into the family sins of my family.

SID: You know, you made a statement that God, when He looks at us, and it’s very profound, He doesn’t look at us, He looks at our whole family line. I’ve never thought about that before.

CHESTER: That’s right. Well He’s the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Right?

SID: Right.

CHESTER: He’s the family father of our family line also. So anyway, that sets us up. We enter in the sins of our fathers. We don’t have to, but we all do that. And then out of that we grow up in families. And we found out that all of us think our families are normal. But the reality is that they’re all dysfunctional, normally dysfunctional. How about that. Some a lot, some a little.

SID: Well with me, that’s an understatement, Chester. How about you guys? How about you?

CHESTER: Normally dysfunctional. So we get wounds to our heart. That’s why Jesus said, “I came to heal the broken hearted.” And we sin out of those wounds. People touch our tender points. But then out of those wounds we’ve learned the human mind is always trying to make sense out of what’s going on around us and what’s happening to us. And so most of the time we make sense by coming to the conclusion, there must be something the matter with me or these things wouldn’t be happening to me. And so we buy ungodly beliefs, which is what we like call the lies we believe. Because my dad died and left me there must be something out of me and important people will leave. So the safe way to deal with that was to avoid other people. And we could go on with lots more. So these are lies based on God’s Word. God doesn’t say I’m a loner. He doesn’t say important people are going to leave. He just says I’m His dearly beloved. That was a huge revelation.

SID: So you replace the lie with the truth.

CHESTER: Yes.

SID: The truth is God’s promise.

CHESTER: And will set you free. And God has given us a very good process to go through to deal with converting lies into His truth. So those three areas, ancestral sins, the lies we believe, the hurts of our heart, all provide legal access to the demonic oppression. Some of them come down the family line. We open up the doors ourselves and invite them in. And so the devil does his job, which is to steal, kill and destroy, until we learn to not let him do that anymore, until we learn to begin to shut those doors. God gave Betsy a key vision one time as we were looking at these four areas.

BETSY: I was locking up the house to go on a vacation and there were four doors. And so as I was locking each one, the Lord said, “Why are you locking those doors?” And I said, “Because there are precious things inside I don’t want stolen.” And He said, “It’s just like locking four ministry doors, the doors of the four ministry areas. If you close and lock them then the enemy won’t be able to come in and steal the precious things that are inside.”

SID: Chester said, when you close those three doors the demonic doesn’t even want to stay, and it’s so easy to get free. It’s not a big deal.

CHESTER: That’s true. We find deliverance in restoring the foundations of ministry. It’s almost a non-event. Let’s say boring. And we’ve all heard stories of deliverance from the old days where people get bounced off the walls and stuff. It’s because they did not take back the legal rights that the first three areas provide. And each one is related to the other three. Because the demons, they keep all this going on down the family line.

SID: Okay. Give me an example of the generational family line that someone could be dealing with today.

CHESTER: Well alcoholism is very common. So there’s an addiction issue, but also probably some major abandonment, victimization, things such as that. So that would be the ancestral sins and curses. So the child grows up, let’s say in an alcoholic family, probably makes a vowed judgment against his parents, whichever one is the alcoholic, I will never be like that. So then they set themselves up to reap what they’ve just vowed. Or I won’t treat my children that way. I’m not going to holler, yell or scream, and they find themselves, years later, hollering, yelling and screaming at their children, and hating it at the very same time they’re doing it. And why am I doing this? So ancestral sins are at work there. They enter into him and made them their own.

SID: Alright Betsy, tell me about an ungodly belief that you had.

BETSY: Well I had an ungodly belief that I was just always going to be left out. And what I found out later is the enemy has a strategy to reinforce an ungodly belief, setting up situations over and over, and over to reinforce the power of that. So I had that ungodly belief, I’m a mistake, I’ll be left out.

SID: And Chester, tell me what was the biggest soul wound you had.

CHESTER: Well I guess it was the abandonment by my father. Of course, he didn’t intend to abandon me.

SID: But you didn’t know that. That’s the problem.

CHESTER: A two-year-old doesn’t figure these things out. We just live it. But I expected to be abandoned by everybody else. That was the ungodly believe I got. So I found myself being abandoned lots of times. And abandonment can take a lot of different forms. It can be, you know, as I said—

SID: You known what I’m reminded of? As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. Chester thought he would be abandoned. Betsy had this terrific fear of death. Do you have a fear of death now?

BETSY: No sir.

SID: I can tell. That’s with an attitude.

BETSY: Jumping across the table.

SID: Okay. I’m going to turn them loose in the next segment to pray for you? You want them to? I thought so. I thought so.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, he’s been a frequent guest on Messianic Vision. His name is Dr. Robert Heidler and he is the Senior Pastor of Glory of Zion Outreach Center in Denton, Texas. He holds a Master’s Degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. He’s had quite a journey in understanding the deliverance ministry, but something happened to him 5 years ago that transformed his thinking; he’s put it in a book and for the first time we can make available to whoever desires a self-deliverance manual that is so quick, so precise, so anointed, so simple that anyone can be set free and help others be set free. As I asked you before went on the air Robert, tell me what happened to you 5 years ago when you’re literally a new mantle of thinking hit you, explain.

Robert: Well I said up until that time when I thought of deliverance I thought of a 5 hour session with the person rolling around on the floor; it really didn’t produce much in the way of results. I was asked to be on a ministry team at a conference, this was a conference of about 2,000 people and they wanted to have individual deliverance sessions for anybody that wanted it. So they said we’ll put you in a room and you’ll have 15 minutes with each person to pray deliverance for them. When I heard that I thought “That is crazy. How can you do deliverance in 15 minutes?” We prayed and we went in there, my wife and I were partnering on the team. What we saw was God began to show us how to deal specifically with the issues, and we literally saw person after person set free in 15 minutes. We came back and did the same thing at a conference in our church and that’s where our deliverance ministry began because people began to come from all over the state because they heard “You can go there and get delivered.” It’s not painful, it’s not messy, and it lasts, it works.

Sid: I like that. I’m just going through your book as you’re speaking and you have a lot of these exercises to spot these hidden things. One has to do with ancestral sins, explain that.

Robert: Well Sid there are things that have happened in our ancestry things that have happened even before we were born that can give demonic powers a right to bring affliction into our lives. Once we see what those things are and deal with those, it cuts off the enemy’s attack.

Sid: Yeah but if it’s an ancestor you don’t know what their problems were.

Robert: Well God can show you; usually it’s something you are aware of. God can really show what the things are. We do a lot of that in deliverance, and it’s usually something the person is aware of in their ancestry. In a few cases it wasn’t and God just began to reveal it prophetically. In Daniel chapter 9, Daniel prayed, and he confessed, and repented of the sins of his ancestors. The result was that his people were set free from the bondage.

Sid: Give an example on page 93 of your book you have “Repenting of Ancestral Sins” and you list a number of them. What does someone do with this?

Robert: Well take anti-Semitism, if a person knows there’s anti-Semitism in their background that brings a curse that lasts generationally. It’s a curse that can be passed on from one generation to the next, and you see the results of a curse in your life and yet you look at your life and you don’t really see what you’ve done to bring that curse about. Once you see that there are things from your ancestry that can produce a curse you can go back and say “Well you know this was in my family line.” There’s a very simple prayer that takes you through to confess that, to renounce that, to take authority over the things that resulted from that. The result is the curse is broken.

Sid: Now as I said I’m looking at page 93 where you talk about “Repenting of Ancestral Sins” and you list them alphabetically. You say pray through the list confessing and renouncing the sins. Maybe I’ll read some of these.

Robert: Okay.

Sid: Abortion, adultery, argumentative, bitterness, bragging, fighting, coveting, critical, cruel, cursing, dishonesty, drunkenness, drug abuse, envy, I’m just jumping around here you have so many. Homosexuality, impurity, but what about… there seems to be such an addiction, if you will, to pornography with the advent of the internet. Could this be demonic?

Robert: Oh definitely, definitely.

Sid: Is there… and I’m sure you had a lot of experience along this line, but is there one person that comes to mind that was set free from that?

Robert: There was a very young man who was thoroughly addicted to pornography and it just controlled his life. He really wanted to serve the Lord, he was a… he wanted to follow the Lord, but this thing just controlled him and he could not stop, and he could not get free of it. We took him through some steps in deliverance and really in about 45 minutes he was set free. He did not have that problem again.

Sid: Now something that I mentioned to you, you have a definition of the word “deliverance” at the start of your book, and I like it. One of the definitions is it means to “rescue” explain.

Robert: When you’re in need of deliverance it means you’re being oppressed, you’re being harassed by the enemy. The good news is Jesus came to set the captives free; He came to be our Savior, to be our deliverer. To rescue means to be set free from the oppression and the bondage of the enemy. That is one of the main purposes that Jesus had in coming, He wanted to rescue us from everything the enemy tried to do in our lives.

Sid: Give me just briefly what are the practical steps of deliverance.

Robert: The first step is Sid is to realize God has… when we were saved God gave us protection. God put His robe of righteousness around us; He gave us the breastplate of righteousness to protect us. So it’s not God’s intention that we should live under the oppression of the enemy, but because a lot of Christians have not been taught about Satan and about how he works; as we go through life we do things that open us up to satanic oppression. So when we realize that we see what are the things that open the door for this person to be oppressed and how can we close the door. It’s usually something very very easy, something simple to do. We have seen people that have had problems… there was young woman recently she had had nightmares every night of her life from the time she was about 4 years old because of some things that had happened to her. She dreaded going to sleep, and we met with her for about an hour and a half, and that night for the first night that she could remember she did not have a nightmare.

Sid: Tell me just some practical steps as you outline in your book that someone can do in a self-deliverance.

Robert: Well we go through first of all explaining who the devil and how he gains access. Then most of the chapters are taking us through very specific access points that most people have for the enemy; strongholds in the mind, strongholds in the heart, authority issues, forgiveness, and we just… going through a process of closing every door that may have been open to the enemy. Then at the end it talks about our authority and how we can take up authority and command those spirits to leave. If we’ve deal with our access they leave instantaneously.

Sid: You know it just sounds too easy, shouldn’t it be more… I mean they have all these books that are so complex.

Robert: Well you know it’s not supposed to be hard, it’s not supposed to be a difficult thing because it’s the heart of Jesus for His people. It was interesting Sid when I studied the feasts, the biblical feasts, that a number of these deliverance issues are dealt with in the feasts. If you… if a person is going through the feasts and as with real understanding of their purpose, they just stay free from the enemy. That’s how… that’s what God wanted, He wanted us to be free from the enemy. He wanted us to walk in the truth that would set us free so that we don’t have to live with the oppression of the enemy.

Sid: In your book you talk about the Passover is a picture of the removal of these doors, if you will for the enemy, explain.

Robert: Oh yes, well Passover it’s a picture and a celebration of deliverance. You know Derek Prince used to say “The strongest confession for deliverance you can make is ‘I am redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, out of the hand of the enemy.’” That’s what Passover is all about, it is being delivered by the blood of the Lamb. Part of the Passover celebration is people went through the Feast of Unleavened Bread was to search out your house and to see anything that was impure and remove it. That’s one of the main steps in deliverance; you search out to see what is impure, you remove it, and that breaks the power of the enemy.

Sid: Once that is broken because we’re in between Pesach, Passover and Shavuot, Pentecost right now then we can really have the joy of Pentecost.

Robert: Exactly.