Sid Roth

Sid: My guest is Karen Wheaton and before we went on the air I was talking to Karen I’ve never met her in person, but I’ve seen her on TBN and other television shows frequently so I feel like I know her a little bit.  But I wanted to find out more and I found out that she was a featured singer on Jim Bakker’s PTL Praise the Lord Show.  And at 17 she actually went to Bible School there, then she ministered with Thurlow Spurr; she was with Jimmy Swaggart, she’s been a regular for years on TBN.  She was married and had a wonderful marriage, then the things it’s impossible it happens to someone that has a praying mother and the generations of praying mothers.  Her husband betrayed her and had an affair with her best friend.  Karen how does someone handle the problems that went on with Jim Bakker and PTL, the problems that went on with Jimmy Swaggart; these are people that I’m sure you got to know; then the problems in your personal life.  A lot of people would just throw in the towel; how did you handle that?

Karen:  Oh the blood of Jesus that washes away all sins for all of us. You know Sid His precious word is everything that we need to stand on and build our lives on. I’m thankful that as a young girl I was raised in a Christian home, and I was raised among a group of people in our church that were real in God.  I saw as a young girl there was a real God, and that His presence would come when we would pray and seek Him.  And so as a child I fell in love with Jesus.  I fell in love with His presence and His Word and I saw His Word work as a young girl. That gave me the foundation I needed when the winds and the storms of life would hit in later years.  It was the one thing that I could always go  back to to stand on that even though sometimes we’re disappointed in people we can all say “Lord You give us the strength, You were the One and the only One that never changes.”

Sid: Now, I’m hearing what you’re saying but what you went through was so devastating many people even knowing what you just said with your mouth would have thrown in the towel; why didn’t you?

Karen:  I was walking on the Word that God was giving me and the first Word that God gave me in going through that trial in a personal level was that I was to just forgive.  And in that trial when the fiery trial and the pain of betrayal and the pain of just the marital stress I was depending on His Word and He taught me that journey of forgiveness.  And I found that it was a decision that we make and that when we make a decision to obey the Word of God He will give us the grace that we need to do what He’s telling us to do.

Sid: But there was also one moment in which you were at a ministry and TD Jakes was there and he walked by you and just a couple words from God that God used him to deliver really at the right time, the right place tell me about that.

Karen:  Well, I was singing at a conference one time at Rod Parsley’s and TD Jakes happened to be there to preach.  He walked over to me in the middle of that fire and no one in the building really knew what I was going through that night and he walks over to me and with a word from the Lord he just says to me “Enough is enough.”  And it was as though the Holy Spirit was just telling me there comes a time when the Lord Himself can say to you “It’s over, it’s enough.”  When God says that it comes with a release in your spirit.  And you know I remember, I remember going through the pain of the infidelity, and I remember you go through such wide emotions and I was experiencing at times just the anger and the hatred and you want a place to put that anger and I learned that people are not our enemies.  Sometimes I want to put our anger on a person that has hurt us or betrayed us or people but people are not our enemy. We have a real enemy he comes to steal, kill and destroy.  He is the devil, there is a real God and there’s a real devil.  One time in the deepest part of my pain I remember being on the floor in my bedroom and I said to God “God, give me vengeance on the enemy; give me vengeance on the devil that did this to me and here’s the way I want it.”  I said “God give me a song of healing and deliverance and let me sing that song about people that I’ve ever dreamed possible; and for my vengeance on the enemy God I pray You will send me people that are hurting, send me woman that are hurting like I am hurting and men that have known the pain that I’ve known.  And let me take the healing You’re pouring into me and let me pour it into them and doing so let me make Satan regret the day he ever touched my heart.”  That’s the way we can get vengeance on the enemy is by letting God heal us so completely the place of our pain that becomes the source of healing for many.

Sid: I have to believe that although God didn’t do this to you because you went through this you have compassion like you would have never had before for others.

Karen:  It’s true Sid, and having been raised in a wonderful Christian home I had never known the depth of pain like that. I can tell you that when I’m praying for a woman who walks up to me and says “My marriage is falling apart, I’ve just found out my husband has been unfaithful, it is an unspeakable pain that only Jesus can heal, but having been through it on the other side I can tell you Sid He can heal that pain and I’m telling you heal it completely.”

Sid: Tell me about the song “I Know a Love.”

Karen:  “I Know a Love” was written by a lady that was actually going through the pain of betrayal of an unfaithful spouse.  It is the message of hope, it says in one place of this song “When the storms come and when these things arise I know one thing, I know that Your Spirit lives within me and I know that there is nothing that my God cannot do; I know a love to build my life on its unshakeable, it’s unmovable, it’s unchangeable and it’s the love of my Father.”

Sid: “I Know a Love” with Karen Wheaton. So many lives are radically changed when they listen to Karen Wheaton’s music.

Sid: I have on the telephone a young man by the name of Shawn Bolz from Foley, Alabama with White Dove Ministries. I got a hold of his book that just literally came off, just came off the press it’s called “Keys to Heaven’s Economy an Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.”  When Shawn was as young as 17 he had his first Heavenly encounter and he’s had a number since but this was way beyond anything.  Shawn in your book it says that when you had this visitation from the Minister of Finance there was a friend of yours, or a young person in the next room, and he could hear the voice of the conversation; explain that.

Shawn:  He couldn’t hear what we were saying but he knew that all the men were out of the house because his mom and sisters were home and I was the guest in the house. And so he was… I was sleeping you know… he was sleeping somewhere else because someone else was sleeping in his room. So he could hear voices talking and he began to get afraid because he realized “Oh my goodness none of the men are home and there’s two men talking in that room.”  And he knew because he heard that this guy was going to stay that’s had encounters before he knows an encounter and he just laid there in fear listening but not a bad kind of fear but just going “God you are this real.”

Sid: And for those that have just tuned in would you recap for us what the Minister of Finance had to say.

Shawn:  He was talking about the fact that there is resources that God has laid aside in Heaven that He wants to release on earth in this generation now that would bring Jesus’ full reward. So those resources aren’t just finances it’s buildings, it’s positions, it’s favor, it’s all of those things that Jesus would need to get the fullness of his reward in our generation.  Those souls that would be won through those resources would be received because of the resources that would be released from his heart. So the minister of Finance was showing me people that were receiving keys from Heaven to unlock great provisions for our lifetime that thousands and millions and billions could come to the Lord.

Sid: Now is it possible for people in this generation to miss this destiny God has for them just as people in previous generations did?

Shawn: I think it’s a complicated question, but just in the sense that I think that Jesus still has an agenda in this generation that it would be hard for us as a generation to miss it but of course there’s the human element can make us miss something.  Because He partner’s with us and so we have to cooperate with His agenda for this to happen, but I think He so wants it so more than we do.  It’s like in John 17 He prayed “Father I want them to be with me where I am and that they’d see my glory.”  It’s like He wanted it more than we did even for what He’s asking in this generation.

Sid: Okay in this visitation in the Minister of Finance pulled out keys a bunch of keys and put it on your chest but what were these keys for?

Shawn:  They were everything from cars, planes, boats, buildings, materials everything that you could think of. One of the pictures that… and this kind of goes around about way to answer your question; what I pictured was it was in Solomon’s generation.  King Solomon wanted to build the temple with the greatest resources known to man and it was a demonstration that in one generation all the greatest resources that were known to modern day man at the time they were brought together in one place to display glory for God. And I believe that’s about to happen in our generation of everything that we would need, the greatest resources that are on the earth right now are about to be brought into submission to God’s heart so that we can display His glory, so that we display His beauty. You know we’ve been talking the last couple of episodes about television and music and different entertainment mediums that God’s about to use because He wants to use because He wants to have His face displayed. And one of the picture of this was I saw two angels flying with a key and there was a gold key in front of them and they were flying and there was I described one of them of them in the book and they were flying with this key in front of them.  And they were following the key because the key was about to be given to somebody to unlock their destiny in a secular position to bring finances and resources in that position so that the world could see the justice of Heaven.

Sid: Now you had another visitation in which you saw, what you referred to as the storehouse in Heaven. I’ve heard little bits and pieces from other people that have been to the storehouse of Heaven but you had quite a tour of that; tell me about it.

Shawn: That’s exactly what I taught I was brought there and it’s one of the favorite experiences that I’ve ever had because it describes so much to me in so few words but sometimes a vision can be worth a thousand sermons.  When you see something that’s straight from His heart I saw a room that had no perimeters and had different sections to it. And the first part He brought me to was, He called it His Department of Creative Miracles, and we were walking through the first section of that.  There was just rows and rows of body parts and I’m looking at these body parts it looked like manikin legs and manikin arms but they were real, they had flesh to them.  And it grossed me out at first because there were like liver and eyeballs and just things lining up and I said “What is this?”  And he said “This is provisions for creative miracles that are going to be called forth on the earth.”

Sid: Yeah but wait a second I have interviewed people that have had this but this so infrequent it sounds to me like God wants to speed this thing up.
Shawn: He wants to speed it up. I looked at, I started looking at each of these body parts was tagged and I started looking at their tags they had names of people that God had designed these body parts for that either don’t have them or they lost them at some point.  And it had dates that He wanted to give them and so many of the dates are coming up now so many of the dates, there’s an acceleration. And I was seeing that average people could call these things forth it didn’t take a great long term healing ministry.

Sid: Wait wait I’m going to get real practical right now, I had a chronic deterioration of my hip bone over the years and I finally had to have a hip replacement even though I was believing God that He would give me a new one.  But somehow I believe even though I have a piece of metal and short of a miracle from God it’s as close to a miracle that you can get from man it’s a wonderful thing.  I believe God wants to give me one from Heaven, a real hip so if you were me what would you do?

Shawn: I would begin saying “On earth as it is in Heaven” because in Heaven there’s no weakness in our bodies our bodies are perfect, that’s His original design. He wants us to pray that our bodies would line up with His desire in Heaven which is a wholeness of what He created our bodies to function as. I believe people who have everything from grave problems such as a missing arm or a bad kidney or a bad liver to people that have weight problems as they begin to cry out “On earth as it is in Heaven” God will give us both understanding of what medicine to practice if we need that or else He’ll show us how to strategy our diet if it’s a weight problem or He’ll begin to supernaturally resolve the issues.  Because so much of the issues right now in the medical industry are going to take a supernatural revolution on a natural one because there’s fibromyalgia as a condition that is the cause of something else it’s not a condition undo itself.  The doctors don’t even understand the fullness of it so there is going to be the need to be supernatural resolution for each of these issues. What’s cool is awesome is…

Sid: And believer’s should be the ones getting this and be the top doctors and scientist.

Shawn:   Absolutely I think it’s a combination of many of the people who went into the medical industry had a nurturing heart to see people healed.  God is saying “I want to add to you now the ministry of healing.” But it’s not just a gift that comes on our hands and we’re empowered it’s the understanding that Jesus Himself designed us as Christians that we would want to be completely whole, that we would want to be made whole in our whole bodies because we would want to fully function because that was His original design for us.

Sid: Now you cover so much in your book about the storehouse in Heaven but tell me some other areas.

Shawn:  One of my other favorite areas was the supernatural faith dimension I stepped into a cloud right after this.

Sid: I want that one.

Shawn:  Oh, it’s the best I stepped into a cloud when I was in…

Sid:  In fact I want it all but go ahead. (Laughing)

Shawn:  The angel that was escorting me who was the foreman of the warehouse wasn’t allowed to go there with me because it was reserved for humans; it was reserved for us.  And it was a dimension when I stepped in that anything I would have asked would have been done.  And it was this place I could feel the things that were important to God’s heart.

Sid: This is like you’re saying gifts of supernatural faith were in this room.

Shawn:  Were in this room and this cloud was about to descend on congregations of people; people who are fellowshipping to be able to ask for anything that we would need or anything that would be resisting us that it would be removed either one of those things.  And I saw that there was a place that if we just said “Lord, on earth as it is in Heaven according to your desire” that it would have to be done because of the faith that He’s about to release on a generation.  And we’ve seen this in several meetings not in many meetings.

Sid: That was my next question, Shawn give me one example.

Shawn:  One example is a good friend of mine name Charlotte Bartow she’s out of the North West, she came with us in a conference in Chicago. I said “Anybody who is dying or has a permanent condition where you’re debilitating and you’ll be like in a wheelchair or it’s a critical need come forward.”  And Charlotte has a liver problem where she needs a liver transplant or she’ll die with two years.  And the problem is that she is on a waiting list and so Charlotte came on this trip and she was always very weak, loses blood sometimes just at a hard place in life. And we started praying for her and I had everybody who had ever believed that God wanted to use them in healing.  I said “You’re not using it yet but you believe this is coming for you come forward and they all came forward a group of people who believe that God wanted to use them healing, some were doctors and nurses and some were just the average person also.  No one had every prayed for healing successful before and I said “Now pray on earth as it is in Heaven according to this desire of what He’s provided.”  And we did that and as they were praying I didn’t pray at all, as they were praying I looked up and I saw in an open vision a liver coming down towards Charlotte as this woman prayed for her. The woman was praying, she was seeing in her heart, she was seeing what God had already provided for Charlotte that it wasn’t Charlotte’s time to die. She began to say “On earth as it is in Heaven in Charlotte’s body let it come forth.”  And she saw it too and we saw it come into Charlotte and Charlotte’s body was totally, totally changed.  That was year ago she’s still completely healed.  She went back to the doctor like…

Sid: That sure beats a liver transplant.

Shawn:  Completely, her doctor was amazed she’s off the transplant list her body is 100%.

Sid: One other area that you saw in the storehouse in Heaven.

Shawn:  Well I kind of briefly touched last time was the creative invention section, I didn’t call it that when we were talking on the phone, but there’s a place where there’s inventions that we need to have in our society for the full message of Jesus to come forth.  And like in Martin Luther’s day the printing press was released the same time they were going to copy the Bible for the common man.  In our day we have the internet but there’s technology inside the internet that we need to have and there’s technologies that God… like a new energy source that God is going to release that is giving Christians right now He’s planting inventions in the hearts of Christians.

Sid: Now did you see this in Heaven?

Shawn:  I saw it in Heaven I saw a new energy source I have actually met a couple different people who have been creating energy sources and they’ve come to me and asked me “Am I the one?”  It’s been amazing just to hear their whole technology that’s been released to their hearts and I also saw some things in multimedia and internet and holograms and things I can’t describe because I don’t even understand.

Sid: Shawn we’re out of time…

Sid:  Getting ready for eternity to invade time; for those that are perhaps tuning in the first time my guest by way of telephone is Renny McLean.  Now Renny was born in England his mother is Jewish, father is Jamaican. At a young age at age 7 his mother had visitations from the Lord and was a seer.  He couldn’t get away with anything and when his mother said something it happened and that’s the way he was raised.  But at the age 7 literally a light came into his room and Jesus appeared and he had a Heavenly visitation.  He does not look at things the way most American Christians do, he looks at things from Heaven’s perspective as opposed to earth’s perspective. I have to tell you Renny although I am really enjoying your new book “Eternity Invading Time” I feel that I got to read it and reread it.  Now I’m not an ignorant person I’ve been a believer many years; I’m a college graduate not that that means so much. But I mean I shouldn’t have to do it, but I’ve got to read it and read it and then read it again; why is that Renny?

Renny:  Because when it comes to the realm of the Spirit the realm of the Spirit has to be perceived. Because it has to be perceived it means it has to be revealed. Because if it’s not revealed it’s not known; and that’s the reason why in fact that we have to read it again and again and again and again.  I’m telling you brother Sid we’ve had well known people read that book great theologians that are Spirit filled read that book and their exact words were “To get the fullness of this book you can’t get it in one sitting.” It’s not a bed time story read. I mean it’s not a bed time sit read; I mean no I mean it’s a time if you are…I just heard it Sid; see if we’re seeking God for the next level for that realm of the miraculous where we can tangibly experience it and move in it and manifest it you know you’re going to get answers to questions in that book.  Because I mean the answers are there; the answer; the answers are there in that book.  And that’s not me the author saying it that’s what well-known who have read the book have said.

Sid:  Well, it’s so new that you can’t have a great retail feedback but tell me one well-known person what he said about the book.

Renny:  Okay one well-known person who has said something about the book; Okay Dr. T.L. Lowery.

Sid: Well, many of us are familiar with him he has quite a reputation.

Renny: Yes, he read my book; I bumped into him at a book convention in Denver and we bumped into each other and needless to say I said “Lord if he’s supposed to have this book put him in my path.”  And the Lord put him in my path and I said “Dr. Lowery we have a mutual friend Marcus & Joanie Lamb.”  He said “Well, praise the Lord” here’s the book and I promise you this will change your life.  He read that book three times in one day and 24 hours he called my office requesting several more of those books it so changed his life and it’s still changing his life today.

Sid: Now I want to ask you a few questions just because many of our listeners are not familiar with you.  I am in awe of the various creative miracles that occur so often in your ministry.

Renny: Yes.

Sid: Tell me about some creative miracles involving eyes.

Renny:  Okay, oh oh beautiful. Okay years ago and I mean and I’m saying it’s relatively new I guess it’s relative it’s not that far because all time is relative. Some years ago I was in Washington preaching and I remember one day I was there for three nights it was a three night event and the glory of the Lord was in the meeting each night. There seemed to be overwhelming sense of God’s presence and glory.  And I feel that glory coming on us now even as we speak you know don’t be surprised if while you’re hearing this broadcast you’re just being healed.  And it was an awesome presence of God in the meeting; and I’ll never forget that the glory was manifesting and I think people was worshiping because we teach this principal about the glory of God for the miraculous.  We teach this principal with great depth this is what we say to people.  God inhales our worship; He inhales it and He exhales the glory. What God exhales is based on what He inhaled. If our worship doesn’t ascend into the nostrils of God there is no manifestation in the glory.  So the question is how much of the glory do we really want; so we worship…

Sid: So the people… I’ve got to put a God commercial in right now Renny.  So the people who go to meetings and say “I’m waiting for the superstar to speak you’re taking too long with the worship” have missed what’s going on.

Renny: Totally they’ve missed it; they’ve missed it because you got to create the atmosphere for the worship for the miracles to manifest.  The tangibility of the miracles is based on the atmosphere.

Sid:  I love the statement that you made Renny I’ve got to repeat it; “God inhales our worship and exhales His glory.”

Renny: Yes He does; oh yes.  See the problem is in the church that we either don’t worship long enough or if we do we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense of what we’re doing.  Because we’ve often at times worship as if it’s the thing to do and we don’t realize we’re creating the environment that’s on; sorry we’re creating Heaven’s environment in the earth’s realm. 

Sid: Let me ask you a question that I’ve been thinking about actually ever since I’ve been reading your book where to talk about the new song which most Christians have never even heard of.  But I was thinking about a signs and wonders ministry that most people think of when they hear signs and wonders and that’s Benny Hinn.

Renny:  Right.

Sid:  And of course I know Benny but also knew Katherine Kuhlman and both of them understood the dimension that you’re talking about.

Renny: Oh my Lord.

Sid: If you take the worship out of a Benny Hinn meeting or previously a Katherine Kuhlman meeting I don’t think you’d have the same miracles.

Renny: Well, the truth is you wouldn’t have miracles at all because the secret of it if you remove a fish from water it dies; life corresponds with environment.  Well when you remove worship from the church there’s no correspondence to Heaven.  So His kingdom isn’t coming and it’s not being done on earth as it is in Heaven because in Heaven worships going on.  And in Heaven everything is healed there’s nothing in Heaven that incomplete in fact if we realize it and looked at it in the realm of the Spirit that’s when it means if we realize what the worship the miraculous would manifest but we stop at the point of breakthrough you know. We either worship to fill in a place or to fill in a spot in the service but we don’t realize that we’re filling in blanks and the atmosphere for the supernatural to manifest.  We’re charging the atmosphere with our worship and I’ll tell you Sid why it’s so important when I say this because at times we go to services and we look for the musicians to carry the worship.  But people don’t realize this the original sound of the glory is on your voice, the voiceprint of God is in our voice when we’re worshiping God and God in Spirit and in Truth.  That means when you open your mouth to worship God knows who’s worshiping in the church; He knows who… that’s real scary.  God knows who’s worshiping in other words you can’t hide in the service; everybody’s voiceprint is different; just how your thumbprint is different.  If we realize our voiceprint in the realm of the Spirit is attached to a miracle that means the miracle is in our mouth as we worship God the miracles would start to break forth.  The problem is we wanting somebody else’s worship to bring us our side to Heaven.

Sid: But what if someone goes to a good Spirit filled church but their really… worship isn’t the highlight and they see it but they decide they’re going to worship God with all their worth even if the rest of the congregation isn’t.  What will happen to that person?

Renny: Worship is contagious; the secret of it is it takes one person sometimes to start it and as you start the bull rolling other people will step in the flow and step in the river of God.  The secret of it is you’ve got to see yourself at that moment in time as the person that God anointed with the Spirit of worship to bring in the glory in the church.  Then as you start to worship others will start to step in.

Sid: You know another thing that I was just talking about myself is many times the words in the songs are unbelief; they sound wonderful but there plain unbelief and I don’t want to proclaim that and so what I’ll do is I’ll just sing in unknown tongues.

Renny: Oh, that’s wonderful I do that all the time (Laughing) oh that’s good, that’s the secret because what people do not realize is that what you are confessing is what you are decreeing.

Sid: I refuse to proclaim with my lips some of the words of some of the popular songs.

Renny: Oh sure I totally agree with you because I certainly don’t do it; in fact many times when songs are sung that do not match what Heaven’s says about us many of the times I just sing in the Spirit.  I just sing in the Spirit because I’m not going to attach that word to my spirit because I’m aware that want I’m saying what we’re saying is what we’re sowing and what we’re sowing is what we’re going to reap.

Sid:  Renny, your new book “Eternity Invading Time.”

Renny: Yes sir.

Sid:  It’s a now book; if you want to understand what is going on in the earth from Heaven’s perspective, and I have to believe a lot of what if not all of this book came really from the Spirit of God.

Renny: Oh, let me tell you sometime for years God had dealt with me on it and really and truly because it came from the throne of God; it came from the throne of God. And I mean every chapter in that book was birth out of the visitation of God that we had had in one of our meetings. So everything that you see that’s in print in that book is actually in the at… came out of the atmosphere of God’s glory with great signs and wonders followed.  It came out of a miracle atmosphere.  That’s why people who read that book they don’t just receive miracles and experience miracles, but they learn how to move in miracles.

Sid: Well, I have to tell you that the title “Eternity” that’s God’s realm.

Renny: Yeah.

Sid: “Invading Time” that’s the realm we’re in it’s as if you state in your book “Eternity is drawing closer to earth.”

Renny: Yes it is oh my goodness yes because time is shortening; time is shortening Yeshua is coming and time is shortening. That simply implies that the time that we have left on the earth… everything that is prophesied has to take place in this time frame.

Sid: Whoops we’re out of time oh unfortunately we’re in that earth realm right now; one day we we’ll be in eternity realm even on the radio.

Sid:  Now my guest is a Jewish believer his name is David Herzog and he is saying by faith what I am saying by faith but it is faith based on the written word of God, and faith on what the Spirit of God is telling us.  David do you see a major revival of Jewish people taking place in Israel?

David:  Yes, right now I believe that we’re on the verge of something fresh and new that’s just starting in its infancy to touch people in Israel in a power powerful way I have not seen it in many years.

Sid:  And you know there’s a scripture that says “The Word of the Lord will go forth from Zion.”  Now it’s not without precedence the first move started in Israel; why shouldn’t the greatest move of God of God’s Spirit in history before this whole thing is wrapped up start in Israel?

David: Well yeah because the Bible does say you know the disciples “When will all these things happen, when will the end come?”  And Yeshua said it clearly He said “Not until Israel says ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”  So even if you win every nation of the earth to God but we don’t focus on Israel, He’s still not returning.

Sid: So tell me this “Why are there people that are actually moving in the power of God and either they’re in replacement theology meaning the church has replaced Israel or they say  well I see a place for Israel but I don’t see any special emphasis.”  I don’t understand why they’re getting manifestations of healings.

David:  Yes, it’s hard it’s a hard thing to understand; I think that it’s just a lack of revelation; a lot of time people don’t have an understanding or a revelation. I’ve known a pastor for many years and he was replacement theology and we’re still friends but he had appreciated our ministry and finally he said to me “Brother, man I see the blessing, the favor, the miracles; how is this happening?”  And I told him, “You know what, just come with me to Israel I don’t want to argue with you just come on a trip.” He came on a trip and within about 48 hours he understood the revelation of God touched him and now he’s being blessed.

Sid: Well, here’s what I believe the ones that are moving in the power of God you see “The gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”  You stand in His Name by faith you’ll see the miraculous. What I foresee about ready to happen and you foresee is way beyond a headache; I literally see someone without a leg getting their leg back.  Has God shown these things to you?

David:  That amazing you’re saying that because I was just thinking about one story.  In France we had a big big campaign, glory meeting, miracle meeting. Two people in wheelchairs and instantly walked and they were just healed without anybody laying hands on them.  But a third man he left the meeting early he was paralyzed he left with his wife and they went into the car drove to the hotel about midnight. The paralyzed man the husband stayed in the car and while she was getting the keys in the hotel a thief came and stole the car with him in it.  Not very fun to steal a car with the owner in it.  And the seat-belt well it wrapped around…

Sid: Sounds like a bad movie but go ahead.

David: Yeah, and the thief tried to kick the paralyzed man out the door and he managed to kick him out while the car was moving and the seat-belt wrapped around his leg or something had happened and literally cut off his leg. So he’s paralyzed and now he’s missing a leg; he’s laying on the cement on the highway or the roadway and the ambulance come and take him to the doctor.  They grafted the leg back together but you know as well as I do even if you have a good leg and that happens it’s ripped off like that it’s not a good chance you’re going to walk.  So they grafted it back; I didn’t know that happened and that night I prayed for handkerchiefs I said “Some of you have friends or family that are not here; look at these miracles and pray for these handkerchiefs send them to people that are sick.”  And one lady brought it to the man in the hospital the next day or so and laid it on his leg and began praying and the power of God came on his legs.  Just got out of surgery and they had tried to graft it back; electricity came all over his legs.  He began wiggling his toes and his feet and he was paralyzed for one and now he had just gotten his leg put back together after being cut off.  That’s a big miracle; within 5 days he walked out of the hospital; he’s still healed today he’s no longer paralyzed.

Sid: Hmm, David explain to our people when the glory shows up; I mean have you ever experienced the glory where it’s almost like a tangible cloud that you can touch and you can even see?

David: Yes we’ve even had that happen; I was in a meeting one time in Ashland, Virginia preaching when Ruth Heflin was there. The cloud of glory was so thick. I went outside towards the end of the meeting I walked outside through the back door because I was on the stage; when I looked in you couldn’t see the people there was a literal physical cloud.  Others started walking outside as well to look at it and they couldn’t believe it and it was literally from the outside looking in it was a cloud you couldn’t see the people; it was amazing.

Sid: Explain to me, what is the difference between ministering the anointing of God and the glory of God?

David:  Oh, I love that question, yeah big difference; you could be ministering under the anointing of God that God gave you. You know you’re laying hands on the sick and let’s say there’s 1,000 people and you’re starting to lay hands and 3 or 4 people get healed.  But you know it’s going to take you a long time to touch everybody, but when the glory of God comes in the building it’s like Acts Chapter 4 “It says Lord stretch out Your hands to heal.” And that’s when Peter’s shadow began healing the sick, so when the glory comes in many times you don’t have to go and pray personally for each person there’s like a mass healing thing that happens because His hand is being stretched out.  And that’s where I’ve see the most creative miracles, the most amount of miracles in a 5 minute period I could see several hundred miracles as opposed to me one and one trying to pray for each one and find out what happened.  So the glory is an accelerator whatever you can do in the anointing you can do it way faster in the glory realm

Sid: Well, I want to explain something that’s going on in my ministry and maybe you can give me some insight.  When I first started I would get words of knowledge like say a back and I didn’t know what to do with it I just hear that just out of the blue and that’s how I began to recognize “Oh, that’s coming from God, that’s not coming from me.”  So I would say “Everyone with a back problem come forward” and they would come forward and I would lay hands on them and everyone would be healed.

David: Hmm.

Sid: Then I began to see that if I would just speak that word out people didn’t have to come forward; they could get healed in there seat and so I did that.  Then I began to see that once one person was healed of anything; anyone could be healed of anything.

David:  Hmm.

Sid: In other words people are waiting for me to say a specific word of their condition to trigger their faith to receive; but what I try to tell people is the minute I have one word, my first word the glory is there and grab what you need.

David:  Exactly.

Sid:  Now is this what you’re experiencing?

David: Yeah, exactly what happens is you’ll get one or two words or whatever to start but then it triggers a reaction when people realize wait God’s here and they on their own just start receiving their miracles while the glory is there.  Many times it happens that people just drive by the church building and get their miracle and their not even saved.  So the glory of God is not just limited like you said to you giving a word; sometimes that just encourages their faith to get it started for them to believe.  And the Bible says “My sheep hear My voice,” so they also can hear God’s voice for the healing and the miracles while the glory is happening.  And many many times there’s things that we never prayed for.  I was in Versailles, France on the day the Tsunami hit. A lady just jumped out of her wheelchair; I never called out paralyzed and the glory was so thick she just full of faith and knowing the presence was there just got up and jumped into that glory and she was instantly healed.

Sid: Now you actually proclaimed that people could be transported in the Spirit; explain that.

David:  Hmm, this is going to be fun.  Yeah, in fact let me give you a quick testimony about 2 or 3 weeks ago I was driving to Belgium from Paris and my car broke down about 7:30 the meeting starts at 7:00 I still had 3 more hours to drive.  So I called the pastor and said “I’m not going to make it I’ll be there about 10.”  As I got in the car the Holy Spirit began to tell me about transportation; He said “That which you have been preaching and you’ve seen before I’m going to do it again.”  And I thought is this just me or the Lord, even though we’re in this realm we’ll still sometimes wonder.  And as I’m driving and worshiping the Lord I was there within 45 minutes I saw the exit to the place that I needed to be in Belgium and I was there within 45 minutes.  So that’s one example and when I showed up the church was shocked; the pastor was shocked because they had just finished the worship and I was able to preach.  So I was there way ahead of time; you can be transported on the earth; you can also be transported to heaven; third heaven.

Sid:  Now I was talking specifically about French Guiana where you made a declaration that there would be heavenly visitations; what happened?

David:  Yeah, we were doing a meeting in the… it looked like a jungle area. That night the pastor and I were talking about how great with God was moving in the meeting and wasn’t that great to see the people being touched. And as we were talking that night we had an angelic visitation; we both were visit by angels to about 4:00 in the morning, which at that point I had never had that happen with another person.  Then the next day flew over to the capital city; shared the experience of what God had done and two people that we know for sure; there were others.  But especially one was the pastor’s daughter she’d just got knocked out by the power of God on her own no one touching her. And they carried her home to her friend’s house she was about 16; her friend was also knocked out like in a trance kinda state where they couldn’t wake her up.  And the mother of the friend began listening to the pastor’s daughter talking in the trance like state and saying “I don’t want to come back, I don’t want to come back.”  When she came back to finally she explained about how she’d been to Heaven and saw Jesus, Yeshua, and saw her best friend. The mom said that “If this is true we’re going to try to wake up your best friend out of this trance and see if this stories real.”  She had just said she had saw Yeshua and her best friend in Heaven.  Woke up the other friend finally out of the trance and the girl said “Mom I was just in Heaven with her.”  And the mom said “Well, what did you talk about she said you had a conversation together in Heaven.”  It was exact same conversation, exact same experience that they both shared.  So yeah, these things are real; there is Heaven and you can visit it.  We had it happen recently while in Israel where half our tour group actually were taken to the third Heaven right at Bethel the place where it all happened.

Sid: Well, let me ask you something if on say I turn you loose tomorrow to preach on this subject of the glory and you also preach a little bit on Friday’s broadcast what do you believe could happen to people as God’s Glory is released that are just listening to us?

David: Yeah, I believe that as they listen and as they’re being touched and open first of all there will be a lot of miracles, healings, creative miracles, maybe signs and wonders anything can happen. There can be people that have angelic visitation.

Sid: Okay, consider yourself challenged Mishpochah.

Sid: I wish you could hear my conversation with my guest before I go on the air it’s so good I say “Stop, we’ve got to say that on the air.” Because my guest this week is Dr. Ray Strand; a Medical Doctor that has for the last what was it 7 years Ray?

Ray:  Eight or nine years.

Sid:  Eight or nine years specialized in nutrition which most MD’s have how much training in medical school?

Ray: Oh, about 10 minutes.  

Sid: (Laughing) Ten minutes! How long does the average big city physician spend with his patient? What’s the average?

Ray:  About 8 minutes.

Sid: Eight minutes; there’s something wrong with this picture.  Let me tell you what you said and I quoted this earlier in the week “That we can’t rely on doctors, we must do our homework; we must become proactive; we can’t be like I used to be like someone that buries his head in the sand and whatever that doctor says is fine.”  Because as you were talking earlier this week about the Federal Drug Administration it’s not quite as pure as it used to be because they rely on money from drug companies to do the testing.  Is that correct?

Ray: Well not only that, yeah you’re correct on that Sid, on half of the budget the FDA comes from the pharmaceutical industry that they’re supposed to be policing.  And the sad thing is that the FDA is under a lot of pressure at the present time by Congress and obviously if you’re paying the bill to FDA you want your drugs approved quicker and more frequently.

Sid: And not only that, every time I turn on the television I see an advertisement.  I’ve never see this before.  It’s almost epidemic; another advertisement pushing a drug.

Ray:  Well isn’t that amazing that they’re advertising prescription drugs, the only way that you can get it is from your doctor. And my first gut reaction when I saw that was “Why are they doing that?” Well, the study show that Sid that when that patient comes in and asks for that specific drug 90% of the time he walks out with that script in his hands. And the pharmaceutical industry knows that and so that’s the pressure that they put on doctors.

Sid: So you doctors are dependent on the pharmaceutical industry to test the drug? You are dependent on them to make you knowledgeable of it. And you’re now going to be dependent on it for them selling it for you.

Ray:  Well, that’s correct there’s a lot of pressure when someone comes in and say “I want this particular pill or that one” and we’re willing to oblige them.  And even though doctors like to take a high road and say “We should look at third party information and all of this medical information.”  The reality is they don’t spend all of this money by the pharmaceutical industry sending in all of these drug reps into our office if they weren’t effective.

Sid: I have to ask you a question.  Is there any as an MD that is a Christian; I’ve always been curious about this.  “Is there any ulterior motive for a particular doctor to prescribe a specific drug?”  Do they get any benefit that you’re aware of?

Ray:  Sid, I know I get asked that question a lot and the answer to that is a simple, “No.”

Sid: Good. (Laughing)

Ray:  Other than maybe a free lunch or something you know that they’re talking…

Sid: But someone’s life is dependent on giving the right medicine.

Ray:  Well doctors aren’t prescribing basically the wrong medicine; we just have so many choices now. I mean you look at the blood pressure medication we probably have 100 different medications we could prescribe.

Sid: Well speaking of blood pressure, speaking of back problems, and different pain in the body.  I’ll tell you one of my frustrations.  I know that God is a healer; I know that He can heal anything.  When I pray for people and when the people that are grossly overweight that have back problems God does a miracle, He’s so gracious, He heals them.  But then that problem comes back because of the cause of the back problem was that they were grossly overweight.  Or I pray for someone with high blood pressure and God causes a miracle to happen but then in your opinion why does that high blood pressure come back?

Ray:  Well people do not know there’s physical and biological laws that occur in the way that we treat our body and how we try to take care of this temple of the Holy Spirit. And what is happening is that people abuse themselves. Maybe knowingly and unknowingly and the Christians are probably worse than any group out there. And so what happens is everybody can have a healing from the Lord or a miracle. And then they go back to these old abusive lifestyles and people… what is it?  Well, we don’t exercise, we don’t move that body, we get into a carbohydrate addiction, we’re stuck on this high glycemic carbohydrates. But you know Sid there are good fats, there are good proteins, and there are good carbs. People simple need to know what they are and they need to eat them because our body needs them, that’ s the way God created them.

Sid: Now you say in your book that heart problems are not caused by high cholesterol, but that’s the main number that an MD looks at and if your number isn’t right they give you a drug. What do you mean by that statement?

Ray: Well what we are finding out, and this is something I’ve known and have been teaching and talking about for the last 9 years. Heart is not a disease of cholesterol it’s an inflammatory disease.  It’s caused by low grade inflammation of that artery.  And the healing that’s supposed to be trying to occur from the immune system actually gets carried away and this inflammation continues. So over half of the people that actually have heart attacks Sid have normal cholesterol levels and so what happens is that people are convinced that it’s just too much cholesterol in our bloodstream that’s building up and that’s what the pharmaceutical industry wants you to believe.  But as you keep lowering and lowering cholesterol it’s not the answer.  In fact LDL, you know the bad cholesterol the bad cholesterol everybody talks about?

Sid: Right.

Ray:  It is not bad as native cholesterol it only becomes bad once it becomes changed or modified by these excessive what we call free radicals or that charged oxygen molecule. And then it can cause this inflammation.  So yeah…

Sid: So, what good is the medication based on what you’ve just told me?

Ray:  Well I don’t believe it’s really all that important if people knew that they are doing. Because if you really understand you know there are several different causes of inflammation. But now that we’re hearing more about inflammation is that what they’re finding out is that the drugs like Lipitor or Zocor that lower cholesterol they also decrease inflammation in that artery. So the pharmaceutical industry now is starting to let this information out so you’re going to read a lot about inflammation, not only as a cause of heart disease but Alzheimer dementia, cancer, of arthritis of all of this.  And so we are going to hear more and more…

Sid: I mean we’re hearing so much about Alzheimer’s right now.

Ray:  Right.

Sid: You’re saying that this is one of the major causes? I’ve never heard this before.

Ray:  Oh yes.

Sid: I thought they said that they didn’t even know the cause of Alzheimer’s.

Ray:  They know the cause, they just don’t know how to prevent it or what to do.

Sid: But your book says they you know preventive for Alzheimer’s.

Ray:  Oh yes.

Sid: I mean, you’re saying so casually so many people are suffering from this or going to suffer from this.

Ray:  Well the problem is it’s like in medicine what happens Sid is that doctors diagnose much of our disease at the very end stage.  For example, when we just heard just various people like Michael J. Fox who has Parkinson’s disease.  You know that he knows that 80% of the brain cells were already gone by the time we diagnosed it.  Well, the same thing happened when President Reagan you know when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s which we first diagnosed him 80% of the brain cells involved were already damaged.

Sid: So all the medicine in the world short of a miracle of God couldn’t have helped him.

Ray:  Right. So what happens is we have to prevent these diseases and the way you prevent them at the core of the cause. Which is oxidated stress which is the dark side of oxygen or we’re rusting inside…

Sid: Which I promised we’d talk about, I’m glad you got there.

Ray:  And that is even though oxygen is essential for life itself it’s almost inherently dangerous for our existence. And so what we’re finding is over 70 of these chronic degenerative diseases are the result of what I call the oxygen or that we’re rusting inside. The same process that changes a cut apple to brown or rust metal is rusting us inside.  I can explain that process. The simplest way that I can explain it Sid is that if you’re watching a home fire burn 95% of the time it burns just fine but occasionally there’s a spark and out comes a cinder and burns a little whole in the carpet. Well, that’s not a big deal but month after month and year after year you got a pretty ratty carpet right in front of your fireplace. And so what you have to realize is that cinder is like a charged oxygen molecule or a free radical. But the carpet is our body so whatever our body wears out first is what kind of a disease we end up with.  If it’s a brain it could be Alzheimer’s, dementia or Parkinson’s, if it’s the joints you could get arthritis, if it’s the arteries you could have a heart attack or a stroke. But God did not leave us defenseless, what we have is a tremendous anti-oxygen defense system which is like the glass doors of the fine wire mesh that you put in front of the fireplace.  And even though the sparks are still going to fly you’re body or carpet is protected. And so it all becomes a matter of balance and so that’s my book “What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know About Nutritional Medicine.”

Sid: That’s such a tragedy, I mean we go to our doctors for help, they want to help us why don’t they… why didn’t you understand this for most of your career as a medical doctor?

Ray:  Well, because I wasn’t trained in it.  I wasn’t trained in preventing disease; I was trained in treating pretty serious end stage disease with my drugs, surgery, and all of our procedures we do. That’s the way doctors work; we’re not trained in preventing disease. We don’t know anything about it. And I was just a typical doctor and now when we talk about preventive medicine in like HMO’s and stuff like that; are you going to your doctor what are they doing Sid?  They’re just looking for early signs of silent disease or disease.  We want to know is that cholesterol up, is your blood pressure up, do you have silent sigs of diabetes

Sid: And you know I don’t take…personally I don’t take medicine.  However I do take vitamins and herbs and when I talk with you you just said “Sid you just go on this diet and take the right small number of vitamin and herbs but by going on this diet and exercising you don’t even need some of those herbs that are supposed to lower your cholesterol, that are supposed to lower your blood pressure.  I wish… oh we’re out of time, Mishpochah.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. In order for that to happen everyone that knows the Messiah everywhere must walk in their destiny. It’s a wonderful orchestra and each musician has a special part, not one better than the other. When your find your destiny and walk in it you will be the happiest person on earth. My guest Lance Wallnau has found his destiny and is about ready to walk into new destiny with God. Many of you are about ready to walk into a new destiny with God. As the 2 of us talk about what God has made real in our lives I believe the Holy Spirit will begin to speak to you. We were talking on yesterday’s broadcast Lance what this nice pastor who gets invited to speak for about 250 people connected with the United Nations. He’s thinking “What am I going to say to these people I can’t preach the gospel” what was the actual reason they wanted you to speak?

Lance: This is the amazing thing they had heard that I was an authority on leadership development.

Sid: Because you’re a pastor?

Lance: To help teach them, how to expand their capacity, to achieve their dreams for United Nations goals that they have.

Sid: Okay I can chuckle but I’m sure you didn’t chuckle when you determined “What am I going to speak about?”

Lance: You know till you walk with God I remember years ago I heard Art Katz say that he said “You start walking in faith the next thing is that you’re not knowing what you’re going to say until you get up and open your mouth.” Talk about living on the prophetic edge that’s just about what happened to me.

Sid: So basically what did you say?

Lance: The main message the Lord spoke to me is that there’s a leadership vacuum at the top of the nations. That if we will fill the vacuum with the authority of our utterance. You know Jesus when He spoke they said He spoke as one having authority. That meant that when he spoke there was anointing on His words that cleave the atmosphere in half. So I just simply went up and began to describe to them the way in which we’re designed to walk as human beings; the way in which nations were designed to relate to each other; and the way in which each individual has gifts and callings, and talent, and destiny that God put in them for His own purpose and glory. If we understand how this works we can actually activate that gifting.

Sid: Now this is a secular group mostly probably nonbelievers in the Messiah for sure. How did they react?

Lance: It’s remarkable. This was my wakeup call.  I had people coming up to me and giving me handshakes from Muslim and communist nations in these various meetings. Sneaking me their email addresses and saying to me in my ear “Our country needs this.” It had me in tears Sid because I realized that what we have as a teaching community the information, the revelation we have, if we could learn to adapt our language we could penetrate any culture.

Sid: Now they actually invited you back another time to speak at the UN, tell me about that.

Lance: The next invitation was even funnier because now I’m going to be speaking to all Ph.D.’s, the best scientist in the world from the UN in Canada; have been sent in there for a couple of weeks for special training from the world’s best in the area of oceanography, and ocean affairs or something. Here again I’m arriving there I’m saying “Lord what am I doing?” When I get there… I had a manual that I prepared for believers and it said “Destiny By Design – How to Understand Your Gifts and Bring Them Out.” I sent it ahead because it was the only thing I had in literature and the professor stopped me at the gate when I got to the college where the sessions were and they said “Dr. Wallnau we apologize but the UN and the University has a very strict policy regarding proselytizing. Unfortunately your language is extremely pro… one view point.” Of course Jesus and I said “Yes.” They said well we can’t distribute the manual. So I breathed in and the Lord basically showed me stealth bomber going in, and He just basically spoke to me and said “I’m sending you in here you simply will go ahead and teach without having to quote chapter and verse and watch the power of My word.” So for 3 days I activated these into being the people God called them to be, discerning their talents, their abilities, understanding how to communicate, how to relate to each other, respecting differences, learning how to negotiate and be peacemakers. By the time I was done they said they had universally said, I’m not saying because it’s me, universally they said “It was the most high impact 3 days of training they’ve ever had at that UN event.” The head of the department took me to the faculty lunch room and asked me if I was franchising the material so that he could take it up to Kobian and at the UN.

Sid: And this was the material it’s too heavily slanted towards Jesus?

Lance: Exactly. So what I did was I simply pulled out the antagonizing references and simply taught the word of God. The thing I realized Joseph demonstrated his gifting before Pharaoh. He interpreted Pharaoh’s dream, he demonstrated the superior wisdom of God’s counsel, and in concert by the time that was done Pharaoh comes to the conclusion “This man has the spirit of God.” Joseph didn’t go in and say “Hi I’m a Jewish prophet I need to tell you about Jehovah.”

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: He goes in and interprets the guys dream at which point the guy says “You know you’ve got something none of us have.” So it was clear to these people when I was done that I revealed to them my beliefs about Jesus, my personal beliefs and how it works for me. There wasn’t a person in there Sid that by day 3 wasn’t ready to receive more revelation on God because I built a platform of credibility first.

Sid: What we were talking about on yesterday’s broadcast Mishpochah is supernatural favor. Something you go into in your teaching CD’s “In a Heartbeat” that is really the thing that makes you tick Lance is most believers segment the supernatural of God to “Religious Activities.” God wants us to take the gospel out the 4 walls and into the market place. Explain.

Lance: Absolutely, you know this came to a head for me. I work with prophets… I’m first a teacher, second a prophet. So one of my friends Kim Clement prophesied over a man in an audience in Atlanta, and he said “Sir the Lord tells me you’re going to have a political call upon your life and you’re going to have a son named Caleb, and he’s going to follow you in your footsteps.” Well this man’s name is Michael Crotts he was considering running for state senate and that prophetic word pushed him over the edge. He went out on a campaign trail Sid he was out campaigning for 6 months based on the prophetic encouragement of that word from the prophet. He falls down dead of a heart attack. They wheel him into I believe it was the Atlanta General he’s in there for 27 minutes flat line, one of the longest recorded flat line subjects ever to be revised. Twenty-seven minutes flat lined his wife comes running in and with the prophetic word in her hand. She grabs him by the foot and starts to say “The word of the Lord says you’re going to have a son and your son’s going to be named Caleb and he’s going to walk…”

Sid: But he’s dead. [Laughing]

Lance: And he’s dead! The physician Sid called for security. They said “Get this delirious Pentecostal out of here.” She refuses to leave and she’s holding on… it’s almost like a situation comedy except it’s serious. She’s holding on to his leg prophesying, the security is holding onto her other arm pulling her out and the physicians are yelling because they can’t resuscitate the man. In the meantime Michael Crotts is nowhere near the chaos he’s out of his body in heaven. He’s standing Sid in front of a great ocean, the ocean suddenly has 7 islands. The islands come up out of the ocean and a great mountain, they form into mountains, and a great mountain forms behind them. Now here you an ocean, 7 mountains and a great mountain. Yeshua speaks to this man and says “Those 7 mountains are 7 world kingdoms, and that mountain in the middle is the mountain you are called to go into. It is the political arena, but there must be agreement.” Then the Lord points to the great mountain behind the other mountains that basically overshadows all of them. He says “That mountain is the mountain of My kingdom and it is greater than all the kingdoms of the earth.” At that moment Phyllis Crotts shifts her strategy from prophesying over the dead man to commanding him to live. She say “Michael in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ come back into your body now!” At that moment his heartbeat came back he sucked in breath and he resuscitated. The doctors turned to her… this is amazing you know doctors this is an unusual situation so we have to give them some grace. They turned to her and say “Now you’ve done it he’ll be brain dead!”

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: Twenty-seven minutes… blaming her for resurrecting him.

Sid: [Laughing] Well at least they didn’t say he stinks, but go ahead.

Lance: [Laughing] All of sudden she inhales fear and thinks “What did I do?” What do you do reverse that after you send them back in, send them back out? Suddenly his voice breaks the silence and he says “Where is my son Caleb?” The prophetic word yet unfulfilled was still in his spirit. He spoke, he sat up, he was completely resuscitated went on to be elected a state senator and the 2 of them went on to adopt a child named Caleb. Now here’s my point, Sid the story itself is phenomenal, but what captures me is Jesus says to the man “Basically I’m giving you life because there’s a purpose, a mountain, for you to take and it’s the mountain of politics.” Now if that was one of the 7 my question is what are the other 6?

Sid: Hmm.

Lance: To what degree is God not inviting you and your listeners and all the people I’m talking to to rise up fulfill destiny and come into pressing into taking possession of territory. I think that’s the issue. I’m doing a wealth conference, speaking at a wealth conference in Canada British Columbia. Loren Cunningham who’s got Youth With a Mission pulls me aside, he’s a speaker. He says “Lance did I ever tell you about the 7 mountains?” I said “Huh! You know about the 7 mountains?” He said “Yeah. One day Bill Bright and I were gonna go to breakfast, and we had never met. Our staff’s put us together. Bill Bright with Campus Crusade, and me with Youth With a Mission, and it was time we met. We had heard about each other. The morning we met before we met the Lord gave us both a word and vision. We both saw 7 world kingdoms that we were to challenge each other to take the next generation to train them to penetrate these kingdoms.” He said “Lance we sat down and to our surprise we both had the same 7 mountains.” He said “They were:

1. Church
2. Family
3. Education
4. Government
5. Media through technology and communication
6. Arts and entertainment, and athletics.
7. Financial business mountain

He who takes those mind molders shapes the culture.”

Sid:  I know you want to have a deeper intimacy with the Lord.  Why? Because your spiritual DNA was created for this. And that’s why I have Carlos Sarmiento on the telephone. And Carlos is a Pastor, he’s… as a matter of fact you didn’t tell me a whole lot about at your congregation you have a facility.  Is it open 24 hours a day for prayer?

Carlos:  Well, we’ve been open right now we started 6 years ago and so we are currently doing 152 hours a week; there’s 168 in any given week. So we’re at 152 but we are as a matter of fact this is the most busiest month we’ve experienced because we’re getting ready right now to launch into 24-7 prayer next month and we’re really really excited.  We’re in a lot of planning strategizing getting ready to launch 24-7 and our belief is that we’ll be 24-7 with continual worship and continual prayer until Jesus comes back.

Sid: Tell me about some of these amazing supernatural manifestations that are occurring in your prayer-room.  For instance tell me about the time that you heard loud music coming out as you were heading there.

Carlos:  Well, that was actually the people that… our worship leaders that open up the 6 AM day who start off the day. They of course because we’re not open 24 hours a day as of yet, so we normally close at midnight.  So one morning; I believe that it was a Monday morning where these worship leaders, husband and wife team who open up at 6:00 AM on a Monday. They came and the parking lot is empty there’s nobody is there and they’re the first ones there but they hear this loud music coming from inside the prayer-room the sanctuary.  They were puzzled by it, they were startled by it and they didn’t know what to think, they weren’t sure if they should go inside or not but it was just… They said that it was just the most beautiful singing that they had ever heard. And they were wondering “Who was in there?”  What worship team is actually doing the set right now and we’re supposed to be closed.  And they were really bewildered because there was no lights on in the building. So they open the building anyway and turn the alarm off and the moment they open the door and turn the alarm off the singing stopped, the music stopped.

Sid: Who was in the prayer-room?

Carlos:  It was angels; because there was no computer, there was no CD, there was no DVD, the alarm was on there was nobody in there. And so we began to you know as we began to… we like to word it this way as we began to build a portal for the Lord.  We were actually giving permission like Jesus said “You know from this day… from now on you will see angels descend and ascend upon the Son of man.”  So where ever Jesus is exalted you create a portal for the angelic activity and for heaven and earth to meet.  So began to all of a sudden have these angelic encounters.  So the beautiful thing is that it was staff members that were saying “We’ve never seen anything like this what’s going on?  We began to have also smells, we could smell different kind of aromas. We could smell the presents of the Lord that would begin to just fill the atmosphere.” So these encounters became almost like a sign to us that the presence of the Lord is not only there but that He is taking great pleasure in this place of continual night and day prayer.  And night and day worship that’s taking place here.

Sid: What reports have you heard about angelic activity in your prayer-room? Have people seen them, what are the angels doing?

Carlos: Well for example one of the most recent reports was not too long ago. Actually my wife is part of one of the worship teams. And the way the prayer-room operates we have a full band, with intercessors who are part of the team. And so we normally have like a 2 hour cycle of prayer and worship and 30 minutes of intercession. We go back into worship about 20 minutes and then another 20 minutes of intercession, and then we transition into the next cycle.  Well in one of the cycle that we were transitioning from worship about to go into intercession all of a sudden she saw a flash and her eyes were open and as the intercessor began to pray and agree with the music because we actually flow together with what we call it harp and bowl, the worship and the intercession works together.  It’s really a unique concept but anyway as that was taking place as the singers began to agree with the intercessor she saw an angel that was standing right in the middle of the platform and the angel was like violently moving its arm like it had a sword in its hand. And it was an exact coordination with the intercessor. So the intercessor was actually moving his arms like striking the ground, striking the atmosphere as she was praying.  And my wife said that it was very interesting that as the intercessor was moving it was being done by the angelic being that was there on the platform.  And she’s not the only one that’s seen this; we’ve had other worship leaders seeing angels in the room that they’re actually sitting among the crowd sitting with the congregation in the prayer-room with their hands raised worshiping Jesus, exulting Jesus. Because that really is the true nature of the Spirit of Prophecy, the Spirit of Prophecy is the worship and the exultation of Jesus. So we’ve seen over and over and over again people smelling fragrances of the supernatural; angels worshiping, angels interceding, angels agreeing with the prayers that are being offered up here in the House of Prayer.

Sid: Now, you believe that it is actually a partnership between man and God that is released through prayer that can actually change a family, change a school, change a city, even change the United States. What changes have you seen in Orlando where you’re located?

Carlos:  Well as a matter of fact I was just looking at an article just the other day about the crime rate. And we’re just beginning to see the crime rate in Central Florida to begin to drop on a regular basis. Even in the area that we live; we live on the west side of the city of Orlando. We’re beginning to see things be exposed. For example we’ve had reports even as of recently where human trafficking rings all of a sudden are supernaturally exposed.  And we had over 81 woman and children rescued and it’s not a coincidence that we had just spend like 3 days of prayer and fasting. We felt and urgency of the Lord to focus on the issue of human trafficking. And so we as a staff as a team we briefed about it. And we said “Okay, we’re going to pray and fast for the next couple of days.” And at the same time we had a very good friend who runs a ministry here in the Orlando area who was going to bring awareness to human trafficking. And so between the 2 of us as he was out there ministering in the streets we were interceding and praying and covering him in prayer. And then all of a sudden we get reports from the east coast where a hidden ring of human traffickers was suddenly exposed and it was one of the largest on the east Coast of Florida. And that over 81 victims were rescued; we’ve seen that before.  We have seen the police department speak to us and say “Hey, your prayers are working, will you please partner with us and so…

Sid: The Police Department has actually said that to you?

Carlos:  Yes as a matter of fact about 2 months ago I had a meeting with the Chief of Police to partner and to discuss how we can… because they said to us “We know that there is human trafficking happening in these areas and we need to be able to see it exposed; so you’re partnership and prayer will go a long way.” So we have agreed to with the local Police Department here in our city to cover them in prayer. And so every so often we will have communication with them so that we can see how we can continue to pray for the police.  Because I truly believe that the Holy Spirit has given the authority to govern the earth to the church. In the absence of Jesus the…

Sid: You know when I watch the news and I see the stuff going on between political parties and it’s congress and the senate and they’re just bog down.  And I’ll tell you what if there wasn’t hope in the invisible realm there flat would be no hope for America.

Carlos:  Absolutely, there would be no hope.  And that’s what the hope has to be the church. And that’s why I go back to it as we were talking in the previous program; we’ve got to back to returning to our first love.

Sid: Okay, we were talking about the Holy Spirit taught you that there are 3 major key heart issues.  The first was going back to your first love and developing intimacy. And I asked you about how you prayed.  But because of time, what is the second key heart issue?

Carlos:   The second key heart issue the Lord began to reveal to me was that we must, if we’re going to be love sick believers and enjoy the presence of the Lord we cannot do so apart of the character of Christ. And so one of the things that we focus here at our ministry and we seek to really in-steal in the hearts of believers is the Sermon on the Mount lifestyle, not only returning to our first love but living like Christ, Matthew 5, 6 and 7.  We call around here and especially in the houses of prayer we call Matthew 5, 6 and 7 as a constitution of the Kingdom of God. Just like the US governments go the constitution and the independence and things of that nature. We believe that the way the church can be the freest she can be and walk in the fullness of her destiny and calling is that if we live Matthew 5, 6 and 7.  We walk in the humility of Christ, I believe that the Spirit of God that there will be no limits to how much He can trust us. One of the reasons why the church is very untrustworthy with power is because we corrupt ourselves with power. The greater the anointing, the greater the temptation upon individuals, upon ministries to take the glory for themselves, I word it by saying that we prostitute the anointing. It’s kind of like James and John.  You know Jesus “Do you want us to call down fire because they would not allow us to walk through Samaria?” And Jesus says “You don’t know what manner of spirit you speak from.”  But we know from scripture that Elijah called fire down from heaven to consume people.  Why could Elijah do it, why could not James and John?  The difference is character, the difference is the disposition of the heart; the value of the character of Christ.  When we don’t have that character established and Jesus becomes everything in our lives we corrupt ourselves of power, we corrupt ourselves of the anointing.

Sid: What was the third key heart issue?

Carlos:  The third key heart issue I believe is to be in a place of expectancy. I believe that the church at this moment is not living in a place of urgency.  We are living pretty much… we’re surviving pretty much the success of ministry. So the Holy Spirit began to reveal to us that son, over and over again in the gospel I said “Watch therefore, be alert, you know when you see this happen wake up.” And then Paul’s writing as well.

Sid: Well, I’ll tell you what, we’re out of time but there is an urgency for you to be equipped in the teaching that was downloaded to Carlos in heaven.  It literally he is a forerunner and you are not listening to me by accident.  I want your intimacy with God to so accelerate.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be activated in the supernatural, that’s why I can’t wait to get his brand new book “The Kingdom of Power” and the 3 DVD’s in which he demonstrates after teaching and miracles break loose.  And I just want you activated in all of the power that God has for you; but Apostle Maldonado I want you to teach a little and then if God opens up the door for words of knowledge continue in that just as you did on yesterday’s broadcast.  But teach us a little bit.

Guillermo:  Okay, thank you Sid. It is important if you listen to me now that you understand for the next two or three minutes what I’m going to tell you.  1^st Timothy Chapter 1 verse 6 says and Paul talking to Timothy he said “I want you to stir up the gift that is within you.  So that means activation.  If He said “Stir up, the gift that is in you that means the gift was dead or was dormant.”  Many people that are listening to me now your gift is dormant or dead for any reason because of the atmosphere; because of knowledge; because of something you’re gift is dormant so I will activate you.  Number 2 so activation is something that when activation comes to you and I will do it right now with you is because I want you to be activated in the supernatural.  And somebody said, “And why in the supernatural?” because the moment you were born again you were born from Heaven and every believer that is born again the moment he’s born again in the Kingdom of God in that moment is activated in the supernatural.  And then why are not doing miracles then if you are a believer and you’ve been born again?  Because religion put away, push you away from the supernatural and that caused you to the supernatural to be dormant and that’s why you don’t dare to pray for people.  You don’t dare to believe in the Kingdom of Power because the religion told you no, that’s for the past Jesus doesn’t do that anymore so now I will activate you.  So activation is something that I will do for you; I will pray for you to be activated again in the supernatural. Number 2 impartation that’s another term for you in a very simple way I will explain to you.  Impartation is receiving a share; the word impartation means to impart a virtue; virtue to impart or to give virtue. So can we do that?  Can we share impartation; can we give virtue to the people?  Well, I don’t have it in my own; what I got I give unto you.  And where did I get it from?  I get it from God, in other words I don’t have anything in my human nature that I can say “Well, I can share with you virtue, I can share with you the power.”  I can impart to you something that I receive from God; so impartation is receiving something that you didn’t have.  Activation is receiving something that you already had but you lost it for some reason. So I’m going to pray for you because I want to release you into the miracles, signs and wonders for you to move in the power of God; for you to move in the power of Kingdom. So if you listening to me now I want you to stretch your hand toward the radio and where ever you are and let me pray for you to do two things.  If you need a healing, if you need deliverance; if you need a miracle I’m going to pray for you to receive it.  After you receive it you do an act, you do an action you correspond an action to your faith.  Second once I do that I will release that activation and impartation; in other words but yes you’re not close to me; you don’t lay hands on me.  That’s the problem you know the anointing sometimes is in the hands, sometimes it’s in my mouth; in your mouth.  So I will the anointing right now is upon my mouth I will release it to you so you be activated and we see that impartation for you to do what I do. And any believer can do it. Father in the Name of Jesus I give you praise and I give you honor; those people that are listening to me now they’re hungry and they’re desperate in a situation where the doctor said “You’re going to die or some of the people said “Well, I need supernatural provisions; some others said “Well, pastor I’m afflicted I’m addicted to alcohol.”  And some of them said “Well pastor I’m addicted to pills and some other people said “I’m full of fear so I don’t know what is your condition I can tell you “I’m going to bring Heaven on Earth right now.” Father in the Name of Jesus let Your Kingdom come, let Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. And I take authority over every spirit of sickness and disease right now “Go in Jesus Name, cancer die, blindness go in Jesus Name.  Deafness go in Jesus Name; back condition go in Jesus Name.”  There’s people with plates and screws, metal screws in your body God is changing screws and metals.  As a matter of fact there’s man a truck driver and you got metals in your body because you had an accident.  And God is changing metals into bones and into flesh right now.  There you go; there you go in Jesus Name.  There’s people that ears are being opened right now; afflicted people are afflicted to addictions to pornography; addiction to drugs and nicotine right now be delivered now in Jesus Name! Right now receive miracle where ever you are.  Father supernatural provision, money provision; if you need a job receive now supernatural provision receive it now. Creative miracles if you need a creative miracle it your missing an organ in your body right now receive organ.  If you need flesh, bones right now receive creative miracles in Jesus Name.  Somebody’s being… my God; God is doing powerful creative miracles right now; we will hear from this program people saying now I was missing bones and bones appear and flesh appear.  Hair, something is happening right now in Jesus Name.  And now Lord I activate and I impart upon those people that want to move in the power of the Kingdom and demonstrate it right now in Jesus Name receive be activated, be imparted now and receive virtue from Heaven.  Let Your Kingdom come Lord, let Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven; do it now receive it in Jesus Name.  Now you respond to power in Jesus Name amen and amen.

Sid: You know I believe that people received amazing impartations but people need to be taught step by step in a methodical fashion and that’s why I’m so excited finally the most significant book that Apostle Maldonado has ever written he told me. It’s called “The Kingdom of Power” it’s just been released; it’s a how to book and the 3 DVDs in which he teaches and then demonstrates and releases the impartation.  I believe that as you understand this some of the gifts that have been stirred up within you right now they’re going to be fully released… tell me briefly about you were speaking in a bullfighting ring and it was pouring down rain; what happened?

Guillermo:  You know Sid when we talk about the supernatural we’re talking about above and beyond.  Beyond what?  Beyond and above what, the laws of nature and when I get into this place it was pouring, it was raining and as matter of fact we lost …our equipment, very expensive equipment.

Sid: This was in Argentina.

Guillermo:  In Argentina; it was in Argentina people were… I mean in the rain; I mean people and the pastor in that church said to me “Pastor you need to pray fast because it’s raining and people they just want a miracle; they came from far.”  And the moment I stood up on the stage I heard the Rhema word of God and He said to me “I want you to speak to the rain.”  And I actually said this prayer saying “Lord I know you open the natural Heaven and that’s where it’s raining but now I command the spiritual raining to open and close the natural rain.”  And I said “And now I command the rain to stop” in those kind of words and Sid in that moment the rain when it was pouring in that moment the rain stopped and I heard thousands of people do this “Wow!”  And it was so normal to me because it was under the anointing; it was the gift of faith in that moment operating and actually Sid and I say “Well, stop now!”  And the moment and all the miracles started happening because people saw Jesus was alive; Jesus is alive.  So that moment I can tell you hundreds and hundreds of miracles happened because of the miracle of the rain.

Sid: And they saw that miracle and it continued raining in the invisible world and the rain was the rain was the reign of the Holy Spirit and hundreds of people all over the auditorium were instantly healed.  That’s what’s going to happen to you right now as I pray for you it’s a supernatural prayer. “The Lord is blessing you right now; the Lord is keeping you right now; Lord is smiling upon you right now; the Lord is gifting you right now; the Lord is surrounding you with His favor right now; the Lord is giving you His Shalom, His completeness in your spirit, in your soul and in your body right now in the Name that is above every problem Yeshua haMashiach tsidkanu; Jesus the Messiah our Righteousness.

Sid: Now you know me Mishpochah I’m a Jewish man that I’ve been a believer in the Messiah over 30 years and I don’t know what it is to be lukewarm. I can’t relate to someone lukewarm.  And besides that my Bible says that  Jesus will vomit me out of His mouth if I’m lukewarm. But I mean I’ve been red hot since I’ve known Jesus; I don’t understand I can’t relate to anyone that isn’t.  I know what’s on the over side why would anyone want to take a chance of having one foot in the world and one foot in the Lord.  I have on the telephone a gentleman I’ve heard of for many years and admired.  He was a nice pastor who obliged a friend and went to a Kathryn Kuhlman meeting and his whole life was turned upside down. Kathryn Kuhlman was a friend of mine; I had several private meetings with her; I did a couple of television shows with her.  And to be quite candid with you I am still even though she’s in Heaven I am still in awe of the wonderful miracles that I saw take place under her ministry.  I’ve got questions on healing you’ve got questions on healing. Now Bill Prankard has probably seen as many if not more miracles than anyone on planet earth right now.  And he’s just the person I want to talk to I have him on the telephone at his office in Ottawa, Ontario Canada.  Bill, for those and we’re mostly in the United States by way of radio, that are not that familiar with your ministry. I’ll say it you don’t have to say it; he has a ministry similar to Katherine Kuhlman.  Similar to Benny Hinn but many of you have not heard of him because his ministry has been predominately throughout Canada.  But Bill I want you to take me back to that very very wonderful bus ride you took from Canada to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  What was the purpose and how did that come about?

Bill: Well, you know Sid first of all it is delightful to be with you on the program today and I’ve been looking forward to this.  We love you’re television program comes up here in Canada and we watch it.  And we love the supernatural so we are knitted together. Well, you know going back it’s like 33 years this coming Spring and yet it’s as real to me now as it was as if it happened yesterday I mean my life got totally radically messed up forever.  And we didn’t know much about Kathryn Kuhlman all of my life growing up in church I felt if God is God we should be seeing something happen; we should be seeing miracles happen.  Never saw them, I got saved I came to Jesus when I was 18: I  got filled with the Spirit of God and got called to the ministry went to an Assembly Bible School up here ordained in the Assembly Pastor here in Canada.  And really felt you know that I knew it all had it all; if you said to me at that time Sid there’s more I would have been offended. I mean after all I mean I speak in tongues and you know I’ve got the diploma and I was pastoring.  You know I pray for the sick and hardly ever saw anybody healed; I preach for people to come to Christ and very seldom anybody comes.  I thought that that’s just the way it is.

Sid: If I wasn’t a believer based on a radical experience with God on what I see in the average good Christian church in America I would begin to doubt.

Bill: Well, you know what but when you live inside that little world you think it’s everybody else that has a problem and I used to preach regularly from our little Assembly Church about those out there who had a form of godliness and deny the power thereof.  And I would point my finger right out across the street to a large mainline church and I would feel so good that we had it all; we knew it all we were doing it all.  And the others so called Christian Church were missing it and you know I’ve found out that there were people going down to Kathryn Kuhlman Service from our area. We moved into this little church in Ottawa Valley in Ontario which is the eastern part of Canada in a little rural community. Every week at least one bus load full of people would travel 12 hours down to Pittsburgh to a Kathryn Kuhlman service.  That’s amazing story in itself a Presbyterian man up here was healed of cancer in Pittsburgh came back took a car load of people down; they were healed.  It just mushroomed and that became his ministry taking people and they invited me to go; they said “We always like to take a pastor with us would you come?”  And I said “I’d love to come” I’d heard a little bit about Kathryn I’d heard miracles were happening that intrigued me. But the problem I had was between the time I said I would go and the time that I actually went I talked to ministers; I talked to my superiors; I talked to other pastors and I said “Why do people have to go so far to see the power of God?”  I mean I could not understand this; there was something wrong with this picture.  And they quickly shut me down and said “They don’t, that these people have a problem they are just running after Kathryn Kuhlman and you need to be careful; you just stay away from these people and you need to be careful of Kathryn because you know they said there is a lot of things in her past that are questionable and we don’t know who she’s connected with.”  And what they did Sid they put seeds into my heart that I didn’t even realize but those seeds grew and with that growing came an attitude an attitude of critical spirit just you know critical of her even though I didn’t know her.  Or had never been in a meeting so I made up my mind I didn’t ever want to go. One night I got a  phone call from the organizer and they said “We really need you to come tomorrow” and I said “Well, I need more time than that.”  And the fact was I had nothing else to do; but you know I said “I need more time than that.”  And they said “Well, the pastor that was supposed to go was sick and we really need you and you committed to come” and I said “Well you must have other people you can call.”  And they said “We’ve called everybody else on the list and nobody can go.”  So in other words I was their last choice and I didn’t want to go and they didn’t want me to go.

Sid:  It sounds like with the most important thing to happen short of your salvation you got pushed into.

Bill: (Laughing) I was forced into this because you know I made up my mind okay I have to go I’ve made a commitment I’ll go I won’t like it; I’ll criticize it and I’ll come back and say “I’ve been there and I’ve done that.”  I went down on the bus 12 hours with these problem people; get down there and you know we’re tired and now they want to have a prayer meeting the night before the service.  And so we prayed and we had a little girl on our bus with her mother Greek Orthodox who had come from Ottawa, Canada and she’d never walked four years old.  The doctor said “She couldn’t ever walk the nerves muscles in her legs had never developed.  And so we prayed “God if you don’t do anything else in that service heal the little girl.”  And so we finished the prayer meeting and we’re off to bed and they said “Will be leaving for the service about 5:30 tomorrow morning.” And I said “How far is it?”  And they said “Two blocks.”  And I said “Why are we going so early and they said because if you don’t you won’t get in.” And at 6:00 in the morning; so there we are Sid in a cold March wet morning 6:00 waiting for the doors of the 1^st Presbyterian Church to open. 

Sid:  And you must have been saying “What am I doing here?

Bill:  You got that; you know anybody in their right mind is home in bed I don’t want to be here I’m with these troubled people; I’m tired I’m cold. So this wasn’t a faith mission at all.  And then they said… and the people seemed so happy to be there; they were singing you know and time went on and they said “When the doors open don’t be polite.”  And I said “What do you mean?”  They said “You won’t get in.”  Well when the doors opened I think about 8:00 in the morning you were pushed in.  I ended up sitting beside a lady that I’d never seen in my life and I thought “You know God I don’t want to be here and I don’t want to talk to anybody.”  And she started talking to me and here she is a Catholic lady from Canada who’d come all on her own; and I’m thinking you know “I was pressured to be here why would you come, I said “Why are you here?”  She said “Because I need a miracle.”  And I discovered since as you know that miracles draw the unbeliever; miracles draw the believer; miracles attract people.  And when people hear things are happening they come; they don’t care..

Sid: You don’t need a high powered advertising machine.

Bill:  No. 

Sid: All you need is a miracle

Bill: Exactly, they don’t care who’s leading the service, they don’t care where it’s at.  And so she’s said to me “I feel so good sitting beside you a Pentecostal Minister, because you know all about this.” Well…

Sid: If she only knew, Bill we’re just about out of time I want to talk a little bit about your book because I just read this myself; it’s called “Six Keys to Breakthrough in Healing.”  In your heart of hearts why did the Holy Spirit direct you to write this book?

Bill:  My wife and I started teaching these keys earlier this past year; last year actually. We saw such a breakthrough in people’s lives that we felt that we’ve got to get this out to people. They are keys that most people haven’t thought about connected with healing and in fact one of the keys about honor; honoring father and mother, is a key that changed my wife’s life. She got healed and several situations in her body because of that; so we printed this…

Sid: Let me tell you I got under such conviction when I read about running off with the mouth

Bill:  Yeah. (Laughing)

Sid: I don’t know whether you meant that or not but you nailed me big time

Bill: That’s a good one how to think about others in the body including other ministries and other ministers.  And so we published this last September and I couldn’t believe the response; we’re on our second printing now

Sid: I believe that there are reasons that people aren’t having the manifestation of their healing and I believe you have so nailed it after 30 years of walking in miracles as much if not more any person on earth.  These are the keys to the breakthrough in healing.

Bill:  That’s exactly why we did it because a lot of people are praying for people and they are not getting healed.  A lot of people are believing for healing and they’re not getting healed and these keys can help them breakthrough.

Sid:  I have a man that’s been in ministry 50 years and has been mentored by the people that I’ve read about and there was only one that I personally knew, Katherine Kuhlman.  Don Gossett there’s a generation that’s been raised up that all of these secrets there ministries of healing they’re just mysteries.  But you’ve out lined in your book called “The Power of Your Words.”  The most important things you’ve learned about healing in over 50 years in the healing ministry.  Being mentored but we’re talking a couple of days ago about a man that intrigues me greatly his name is William Branham.  Will you take me into a service and tell me the types of things that you saw with your very eyes in a William Branham service.

Don:  In March 1960 in Tulsa at the Municipal Auditorium William Branham ministered there for some days and weeks.  And back in those days the crusades always lasted extended period of time not just 2 or 3 days or continued on for a time.  William Branham as I was invited to be on his platform with him every night for the meeting every day.  It was a wonderful occasion and I could just close my eyes and remember vividly the great experiences that happened.  For instance one night he said on the seventh row in the fifth seat there’s a man and I want you to stand please.  And the man stood up and he said “I see you’re a minister.”  And he acknowledged he was and he said “Well, you’re an Assemblies of God pastor.”  And he said “Yes I am.”  He said “I see the whole scene my bother you were driving down a highway and you came to a 4 way stop.  You stopped your car and then you proceeded to move on but a car coming from the other direction did not stop at the 4 way stop crashed into your car.  Is that correct brother?”  And the man, the pastor began to break into emotion tears and joy and realizing that his life what happened 15 years before was suddenly being revealed very distinctly and accurately.  And then he explained further he said “The car after it crashed into you you were thrown out onto the highway” and he said “Is that correct brother?”  And he said “Yes it was.”  “And you were hospitalized and yet for the last 15 years you’ve suffered continual pain from where the cars crashed into you.”  And the man began to break up and began to weep profusely and William Branham spoke the healing word and said in Jesus Name your healed now by the Lord’s power, the pain leaves and you’re made whole.”  Well, the man tested to that fact and came back to give witness that a miracle had taken place. And this was the type of meeting that William Branham conducted service after service as the scriptures says that “God reveals to those Spirit Filled believer’s the secrets of men’s heart.  And William Branham was so humble and so very filled with love in my observation. I’ve frankly never seen a man that exude the love of Jesus Christ as this man did.  Now I say that with all due respect to my wonderful friends TL Osborn, and William Freeman, and Jack Coy, and Kathryn Kuhlman, but as I often said “He was a man that didn’t belong to this world.  He was a man that somehow been touched by God from a non-worldly standpoint that enabled him to be used by God profound utterances.  And…

Sid: Now to me that is a New Testament prophet and I wouldn’t want to settle for anything short of that. Let’s talk about someone I did see minister and I did get to know, Kathryn Kuhlman.

Don:   Again I want to emphasize the fact that I never on the staff of either William Branham or Kathryn Kuhlman. My association with them was other connections.  I was actually on the full-time staff with these other four people traveling with them, working with them and one way involved but in the world conference of the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem in the years 1974 and 75 I was the Canadian Coordinator for the World Conference of the Holy Spirit.  It simply means that I occasion to be in contact with leaders and those who ministered and Kathryn was the key speaker.  If anyone ever had an occasion to be close to Kathryn in those events before she would go into a service she would passionately pray “Holy Spirit can You trust me just one more time. Oh Holy Spirit can you trust me just one more time?” You could hear the desperate cry of her heart and think she hadn’t been used by the Holy Spirit.  But of course she had but Kathryn was also known at a time when she grieved and quenched the Holy Spirit.  In the book “Daughter of Destiny” by Jamie Buckingham he relates how Kathryn for a period of years had grieved the Holy Spirit and unfortunately while she certainly repented and changed that simple direction for her life by simply she knew what it was to not be led by the Holy Spirit by trusting the Holy Spirit.  But I think as one of the most fervent prayers I ever heard her pray effectively “Holy Spirit can you trust me just one more time.”  And I believe that any of us that want to be used by God if the Holy Spirit can trust us and we can lay aside or arrogance or self-seeking or whatever ambitions might be in our hearts to really be trusted by the Holy Spirit that He can use us as He used Kathryn.  And I thank God for the mighty manner which He flowed through her.  I can share so many events of my personal encounters briefly at a very brief time in my life where Kathryn Kuhlman and her ministry but the time would not permit on this program I’m sure.

Sid:  I’ll tell you what would be even more beneficial to our listeners you have learned keys to manifesting God’s healing you don’t need a super Kathryn Kuhlman miracle anointing you just need to understand the promises of God’s word and how to appropriate them. Would you teach a little?

Don:  Yes, well I have written a book with Dr. E.W. Kenyan called “The Power of Your Words.” Now I hold this book in my hands here in my office in Blaine, Washington because it’s like divine dynamite because I know how this truth put in the hearts and the mouths of the believers had been revolutionary.  The results have been just overwhelming.

Sid: And it’s not just physical healing although it is physical healing it’s any need that someone has.

Don:  That’s right when we agree to agree with God and disagree with the adversary we learn the speaking forth principal of how God works through the power of our words.  You know back here just a moment to alluding to William Branham; when he was with us in Tulsa he came off into the Osborn offices where I was Associate to PL Osborn.  And he was with us one day when he said “Mark 11:23” is the most unfulfilled and unused scripture in the Bible.  Jesus said ‘Whoever should say to this mountain be yea removed and be cast in the sea and shall not doubt in his heart that those things that you sayeth shall come to past he shall have whatsoever he saith.’”  I mean William Branham en-parted that to us with fire and conviction.  Well, that’s what “The Power of Your Words” is all about the fact that you speak to your mountains; you don’t pray to your mountains but you speak to them in Jesus Name He said “And to be removed.”  And thank God He said “They shall be done, for what you say is what you get.”  That’s a great truth, and that was my same relationship I had with TL Osborn; I became connected with this man that has been used of God all over the world in such awesome ways.  We discussed together this principal by the power of your words.  And he said “Don Gossett, understanding this principal marks you as a man 1 in a million.”  Well, I don’t know about that but any way he said “I want you to be my associate, I want you to preach my afternoon services, I want you to become a part of my staff and I did and it was a great experience.  Well this principal “The Power of Your Words” is what affected each of these people in a way in one way or in another.  Now I have it in this book form to be able to put it in the hands of your listeners Sid and I’m very persuaded that God will use it mightily to praise the God.

Sid: I want to get specific I’m one of these type of people Don. Let’s suppose there’s someone listening to us right now that’s got arthritis in their knees; what would you tell them to start doing.

Don:  Well, I would encourage them to speak the word only.  Jesus said in Matthew chapter 8 that when that Centurion said “Speak the word only and my servant will be healed.”  Jesus said “This is the greatest faith I’ve found I’ve found in all Israel.”  What was so great about it was the fact that he said “Speak the word.”  That speak the word only was the principal that Jesus honored and He exalted He said “This is the greatest faith of all that I’ve found in all Israel.”  And I would say speak the word not the negative problem speak the word not the defeat circumstances; speak the word not their sickness and their oppressions but let the word prevail.  I believe that the word that said He’d watch over his word to perform it; that no word that goes out of my mouth will return to me void will make that word good. That’s why I’m quite persuaded with all my heart that this principal that you’re offering with book will revolutionize and change people for the glory of God not just some little magic formulas but just speak the word amen.  That’s the power of that word itself.

Sid: Don tell us your never again list.

Don:  Never again will I confess I can’t for I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.  Never again shall I confess lack for my God shall supply all my need in riches in Glory by Christ Jesus.  Never again will I confess fear that for God has not given me the spirit of fear but a power and love and a sound mind.  Never again will I confess doubt and a lack of faith for God has given to every man the measure of faith.  Never again shall I confess weakness for the Lord is the strength of my life. And the people that know their God shall be strong and do exploits.  Never again will I confess the supremacy of Satan over my life for greater is He who’s in me than he who’s in the world.  Never again will I confess defeat because God always causes me to triumph in Christ Jesus.  Never again will I confess lack of wisdom for Christ Jesus has made unto me wisdom from God. Never again will I confess the domination of sickness over my life for with His stripes I am healed, and Jesus Himself took my infirmities and bared my sicknesses.