Sid Roth

Sid: Question, “If someone squeezed you what would come out?”  Answer, “Not a whole lot different then if someone were to squeeze someone that did not know the Messiah.” Problem, “How do you solve it?”  I have an individual that I’ve just gotten to know on the telephone and I am so excited about this interview.  That by faith we’ve decided to do 2 weeks; his name is Leif Hetland and Leif was born in Norway from a 4^th generation Pentecostal family. He went astray as so many young people today are doing it.  But he had an encounter with the Messiah that revolutionized his life and he decided he would serve God.  But he quickly as a Pastor went into burned out works mentality. He didn’t know anything better so he kept doing it.  But then he found that there was something better.  Then he found that there was something more and then his whole ministry was transformed.  And I’m believing as you listen to us this week your whole life will be transformed.  Aren’t you crying, aren’t you praying to God that there must be something more? Aren’t you saying to God ‘I’m desperate for greater intimacy with you.” Yet there seems to be something that is blocking what you know should be yours but you don’t have it yet.  I believe that you ease drop in our conversation that there’s going to be light-bulb that will go on that will forever change your destiny.  Leif,I had a very unfortunate thing happen to me a couple of days ago.  I got  together with a friend of mine is a Biblical counselor and he said “Sid, would you please pray for me because I’m meeting with one of the worse situations; a little fourteen year old girl; she had never been sexually active and one day she had an argument with her parents and she went out in a huff and got together with a male friend and had one beer.”  And he said “You know you really, and she had never had beer in her life.

Leif: Hm.

Sid:  And she came from a good Christian family and then her friend said “You know,” and they were at a party with a few other people, “You really need to unwind would you have another beer.”  And she did; she had the second beer and then before she knew it they slipped a drug on her called ecstasy and before she knew it she was getting intimate with all of the male guests at that party.

Leif: Wow.

Sid: And she was going to now meet with this Biblical counselor; what a sad tragedy!  And he said something to me which I would like you to pick up on.  He said when he first spoke with her he said “Where do you think you made your mistake?”  And she said “When I had my first beer.”

Leif:  Hm.

Sid: And he said “No, you made your first mistake when you got angry with your parents.”  I’d like to know what’s going on inside of you with that story.

Leif:  Well, I can identify with that story because it was very similar to my own life and my own story because of anger towards parents and eventually towards church and also related towards anger towards God.  And I spent about 5 years with scars as a consequence of some of my action that I did as a result of it.  But I do believe that so many young people that are looking for security; they’re looking for love, value; they’re looking for affirmation they’re looking for purpose and destiny.  And suddenly as a thing in the middle of that when something is being devastated many times when they don’t know what to do they don’t know where to go.  First of all I want to encourage some of the parents as a reminder of Luke 15 where you have a perfect father and still one of them  chose rebellion and the other one chose religion despite of the parents have lived right and perfect.  The other encouragement I want to say even to this young lady and this young girl like it is my life and  I hope that no body needs to experience what she had experienced.  And then at the same time Sid I have seen again and again where the Father Himself places His robe of righteousness.  And I have sit there actually who had ended up actually with prostitution and has stood before an altar with white dress feeling like virgin again.  And that means that through Messiah, through Jesus an encounter of the robe of righteousness being placed upon them that they have been bathed by the Father and in the Father’s love.  And He went back and He visited that incidents and all the different things that took place that the Father just erased and when they’re looking back they’re not looking at their history but their destiny.  So I think that even like a Rehab she was not treated on behalf of her history but her destiny.  And I just want to encourage both the parents that even if they’ve been perfect parents you can still end up with a prodigal son and a brother.  And for this precious little girl what men had meant for evil God still can use this for good and she could be a tool that God can use if she just allowed healing love of God to move in and to visit that episode and to be able to through the precious blood of Jesus like we believe in physical healing do an emotional healing.  And I have 100’s and 100’s of stories just from the last couple of weeks not of the same incidents but  similar incidents where people again have been restored back again just before the fall came in.  So I am sadden in behalf of her and her family and at the same time period I do believe as I’m saying that so many times I’ve seen that tragedy has become a triumph.  And instead of whining we can be shinning; instead of being bitter we can become better.  And that’s what I and I pray that the rest of the believing audience will do; we will stand in the gap and we’ll pray that for this for this 14 year old girl and the family.  And that this little girl can be another person that would fit into the Hebrew hall of faith, I will call it a hall of grace.  And humility releases God’s ability, so when she has broken down she’s been humbled I just ask now that we would have the same view towards this girl as we see the Heavenly Father did in Luke 15 towards a prodigal son because maybe of his anger and hurt he wasted his inheritance.  And let us just also keep that heart and that love.  And I do believe that that perfect love can come in and it can bring healing to the wounded heart and the wounded spirit and one day that she can stand before a husband even back in the memory bank knows what happened she can still feel like a virgin because of the precious blood of Jesus covers over all of the mistakes that she has done.

Sid: Leif I want to take you back to 1995 and an individual I’ve interviewed several times crossed paths with you; his name is Randy Clark.  Tell me what he prophesied.

Leif:  Well, I was in a pastors conference in Halgason, Norway. I was the Senior Pastor of  Psalmist Baptist Church.  And in the middle of the meeting like everybody else I had a lot of orphan spirit and orphan thinking; I can be honest I went there I want to get something so I can have a growing congregation of gifts of the Spirit.  I was there to evaluate God in   what He was going to do for me.  But when Randy came up to me and he prophesied he spoke and he saw a picture of me being a bulldozer and he said, “You are going to go into nations and territories where the gospel has never been before and I’m seeing like the Amazon jungle a bulldozer and I’m seeing it’s knocking down all of those trees but I’m seeing there is a mass amount of people that is following after you.”  And then he used the word apostle.  As a Baptist I was just thinking well, missionary but I didn’t understand what that meant.  But right after that I had a major injury where I ended up with almost nine months out and in of hospital and almost most lost my sanity; so it’s very strange that there’s a battle that you have to fight after the battle you won.  There God is making me pregnant-ed  with His purpose and His reason but I didn’t have ears to hear what that meant.  But for nine months I laid in hospital bed with a destroyed neck and back.  And all I could do was to look up and during that time period the Father started to beat His beat in my heart in regard to the 35,000 people who died today who lived their whole entire life on this earth and they never heard the name of Jesus and it just changed my life.

Sid: In your wildest imagination Leif, in your wildest imagination did you ever think you would win a half a million Muslims to the Lord?

Leif:  Definitely no and still sometimes I feel intimidated when I’m hearing about me winning because I do know so clearly everything is God’s grace.  And it’s such a team effort and there’s other people that definitely needs to get the honor and the glory for that.  I was thinking about one Pakistani missionary who said “I spent 25 years praying and preparing the ground and eventually was kicked out of the country.  And I saw two believers in those 25 years.  He is a professor of one of the most famous seminary actually the head of the Messiology Department with a PhD.  And then for us to be able to be coming into place such a seed to 10s and 10s of thousands of people in every single meeting.

Sid: I was watching a video in Pakistan and seeing blind eyes open and people…children that have never spoken before, never heard before.  And I believe Mishpochah that God has lead Leif to an understanding of the Father’s love that the Father God has for Leif.  And the Father has so much love He has as much love for you as He has for Leif and I believe as much destiny as for you as He has for Leif.

Sid:  Let me tell you some good news; we are proclaiming the gospel in the largest Jewish populated city in the world, New York City; secular television; prime time.  Listen to this we just went on RNN TV which is carried on the Time Warner Cable in New York City, Manhattan channel number 91.  We’re on Monday nights at 9:30 pm; the Time Warner cable has 4.2 million households or 93% of New York’s total cable households.  And the RNN it’s self covers New York City, Hudson Valley, as well as New Jersey.  So as far as I’m concerned to be on secular radio in New York City at this strategic, strategic moment in which God is removing the spiritual scales on the eyes of Jewish people.  And I want to have the money to pay for this and God is going to provide it. We took a step out in faith; we are debt free but I believe God told us to go on this station and I want to have the money to have advertisements in New York City newspapers directing Jewish people to watch “It’s Supernatural Television” where they will see miracles such as the guest I have on the telephone right now. His name is Bill Kent I’m speaking to him at his home in Blue Ridge Summit, Pennsylvania.  This is without a doubt one of the most verified medical miracles I have ever seen in almost 30 years investigating miracles.  Bill was in an accident; hard to believe he had a motorcycle accident with a train in May of 1985.  He had closed head injuries, massive traumatic brain damage, spinal injuries, ruptured optic nerve, cardiac arrest; he was comatose for 3 months the doctor said “There’s no hope.”  Quadriplegic, in a wheelchair and he’s about ready to commit suicide, he had all sorts of turmoil going on his life.  You can understand this; how many years were you in the wheelchair Bill?

Bill:  Fifteen and a half years;

Sid: Fifteen and a half years. He actually was involved in the Wheelchair Olympics and he won 39 Gold Metals in shooting. But he heard a voice and the voice said go to Columbus, Ohio on a specific date, November 5^th.  So he just didn’t know what but this voice kept repeating itself day after day; November 5^th go to Columbus, Ohio.  And so he turns on the TV channel surfing and he catches Rod Parsley, he’s never seen him before and Rod’s talking it’s an infomercial on a Debt Burning Service.  But it’s like the Holy Spirit said “That’s the place and it’s in Columbus, Ohio where I’m sending you,” but he didn’t have any money. And his church took up an offering and he went to Columbus, Ohio. It just turns out on November 5^th there happens to be a Miracle Healing Service.  So he wheels himself in; he had already talked to someone on the telephone getting some instructions and the person prayed for him. And for the first time he felt burning in his feet; he knew God was up to something; and so he goes in wheels into the church and what happened next Bill.

Bill: Well, after we entered the sanctuary the service began and the director of praise and worship came out and made the announcement “It was going to be a miracle faith and healing service, but there couldn’t be any unbelief in the house.” So he said “If you can’t believe or you don’t believe then he’d have to ask you to leave. and I saw a few people get up and leave.  Well praise the Lord for that because the next thing that happened Pastor Parsley came out you know after the praise and worship for about an hour and hour and half Pastor Parsley comes out.  And he says that “The Lord had woken him in the wee hours of the morning and told him that there was somebody coming from far away on the promise that he would be healed.” Well my spirit just absolutely leapt you know because that was me; you know I had come from far away on the promise that I’d be healed.  So the service goes on and you know Pastor calls the first thing that happens pastor calls the homosexuals down, blows my mind. He commands the church in prayer over these homosexuals that they be set free.  It’s unlike anything that I’d ever experienced before; the unity in prayer in that church was incredible.  There were over 7,000 people in that church that night and to command prayer where 7,000 people come into unity like that it was incredible.  The service goes on; he then calls the diabetics down and that’s me because I’m a diabetic.

Sid: In addition to everything else (Laughing)

Bill:  Yes.

Sid: Okay.

Bill:  The parking lot just before entering the church I tested my blood sugar. Now I had not had insulin for 3 days I ran out and couldn’t afford to buy any.  So my blood sugar tested in the parking lot was 470.  Normal blood sugar is between 80 and 140 once you get above 140 you’re in trouble.  Mine was 470; so I go down front with my dog and you know I’m sitting there and prayer is going on and the church comes into such unity again but I don’t feel anything.  Pastor Parsley said this is for only the diabetics so if you’re down here and you don’t have diabetes go back to your seat and wait.  Well, a few minutes went by and then he said “The Holy Ghost just said ‘If you have way feel that you’re going to be healed of anything you had better get down here.’” So with that 1000’s came down front the prayers went on, general prayer for healing for all kinds of different infirmities, carpal tunnel syndrome, cancer, HIV, back pain, knee pain, all kinds of things.  And I started seeing miracles unfold; I started seeing blind eyes opened.  I started seeing deaf ears pop, and people beginning to hear, I saw chronic back pain you know gone. I saw cancer gone, I saw visible tumors disappear right before my eyes. It’s incredible absolutely positively incredible. So you know it’s like the service is going on and on and on and on.  And it seems to me like it’s getting towards the end of the service and you know I’m starting to feel a little bit let down. I just cry out to God. I said “God, You told me to come to Columbus, Ohio, and You told me to come to Columbus, Ohio and I’d be healed but I don’t feel anything.  And so it’s like “I know You’re not a liar, I know that You’re a God of Your word; and this is what You told me to do so You better do something.”  And with that I went to adjust myself in my wheelchair and one of ushers his name is Jerry Moore, he was standing to my left. Jerry leaned over and he says, “Are you trying to get out of that chair?”  And what I wanted to say was “No, I’m just adjusting myself” but before I could say anything words came out of my mouth “I’m going to jump out this chair in 30 seconds.”

Sid: My goodness when it came out of your mouth what did you think?

Bill:  I didn’t know what to think I was you know, in shock and awe.

Sid:  Did you get up?

Bill:  I did 30 seconds later I was standing up and Jerry the usher the only thing that kept him from hitting the floor was that there was a knee wall behind him that caught his fall.  And so he started you know praising God you know and said “Can you walk?”  And I said “I don’t know this is the first time I stood in 15½ years.  So he said “Take 3 steps forwards and 3 steps back” and before I knew it I had done it.  And then he says to me he says “Can you walk up those steps onto the platform?”  And I you know just held my hands up and said “I don’t know let’s ask God.”  And before I knew it I was on the platform.

Sid: How did you get there?

Bill: I don’t know.

Sid: (Laughing)

Bill: God knows.

Sid: How many years since you’ve been able to walk?

Bill:  Fifteen ½ years.

Sid: Here let me read this to you Mishpochah by the way he got his blood sugar down to normal; he actually tested it while he was there.  He is not crippled in any way and let me read from doctor, he’s the M.D. Dr. Horns report which I have right here. “Mr. Kent has been supernaturally healed and there is no medical or scientific explanation for what has taken place.  He went in a quadriplegic with diabetes and a few other things and he walked out; he walked out.”  What did you do with your wheelchair?

Bill:  Well, I still have it because that wheelchair is part of my testimony but I don’t use it.  And I have not used it since that night.

Sid: Okay Mishpochah how would you like to have this testimony covering all the Jewish people and all the gentile people in all of New York City.  I just told you by faith I went on a secular station and they cover 4.2 million households; New York City, Hudson Valley, Connecticut, New Jersey. I need help.  I need you to pray for this ministry; I tell you this is God’s time to remove the spiritual scales from the eyes of Jewish people.

Sid:  My guest is Pastor Robert Gay; Robert has been given a revelation of the next level in reference to grace taking the Ten Commandments and pushing us into that higher level. Robert many people who disregard unfortunately the only Bible the first church had; the Old Testament.  Say we’re not even interested  in fact you told me something that you heard on TV about the Ten Commandments; what was that.

Robert: Well, I heard somebody ministering the other day and he actually came out and said that any pastor or preacher that teaches the Ten Commandments to their congregation that they were killing their congregation.  And of course my thought to that was “Well, Jesus didn’t get that memo.  And obviously Paul didn’t get that memo and either did James because both Jesus, Paul, and James articulated if not all of the Ten Commandments most of them.   Of course between all three of them all of them were re-articulated in some manner or form.  And Jesus actually takes the commandments into what we call a higher level.  The next  level so a grace you know because we are now saved through grace it doesn’t mean that the bar has been lowered; it actually means that the standard has been raised. And so I think that it’s very important that we a New Testament believers realize that the Old Testament again as you even pointed out was the only Bible the early church had.  That’s the Bible that Paul preached out of; that’s the Bible that all of the apostles preached out of.  We don’t have an Old Testament God and a New Testament God He’s the same yesterday, today and forever.

Sid:  Now give and example of how it was brought to a new level; but your teaching is so good on each one of the Commandments.  Pick one of the Commandments and explain.

Robert: Well, we see how that Jesus actually takes the Commandments and takes it to what I call the next level; a higher lever; a higher dimension. For instance the one concerning murder we’ll use that one.  He said “You’ve heard that it’s said don’t murder, but I’m telling you don’t even be angry without a cause.  And then whenever you read on what Jesus actually actually begins to tell everybody is to you either need to agree and get over your issue.  Now as a matter of fact I have a chapter within my book called “Get over it.”  That actually has to do with the command of that “You shall not murder.”  In other words what Jesus was actually teaching is “You’ve got to deal with the root of murder; if you deal with anger murder won’t be an issue.  If you deal with unforgiveness murder will not be an issue with anybody’s life. As a matter of fact it actually John later on, the Apostle John when in his writings it actually talks about how that if you hate your brother it’s the same as murder.  Well, why would somebody hate somebody; it’s because of some type of issue of anger, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy.  All of these things that actually leads somebody to the sin of murder.

Sid: Well, even the say adultery the roots are similar.

Robert:  Well, exactly and really the commandment even concerning adultery; Jesus takes to the next level. Jesus says “You’re heard not to commit adultery but I’m telling you not to even look in that direction; whoever looks on a woman to lust after her actually commits adultery in his heart.”  So what Jesus addresses there is the root of the problem, the root of the issue; the root of the sin; and of course the root is lust in the heart of man. Well, thank God Jesus took care of that; we are now new creations in Christ Jesus so now we’re enabled to fulfill that Commandment.  So really even the Commandment of adultery has to do really with the necessity of commitment and covenant; and staying in covenant, walking in covenant; keeping your commitment and that’s what even that Commandment is about.

Sid:  Robert explain the first Commandment, most believers don’t understand it from a New Covenant understanding; explain.

Robert:  Well, of course in the original Ten Commandments the First Commandment was to have no other gods before Me.  And if you actually take that and place that in the affirmative what really means is this “Put God first, make Him a priority of your life.”  And we see Jesus even re articulating that Commandment when He said “Seek yea first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.  You know there’s something that takes place whenever we make God the priority of our life; when we make Jesus the priority of our life things begin to fall into place.  I think that it’s so interesting whenever Jesus even begins to talk  about this Commandment and the principals concerning this Commandment. How that He actually says don’t seek after food, and clothing and raiment and all these things. And then He says this for after these things the Gentiles seek.  What Jesus meant when He said the Gentiles is He was saying was those who are outside of Covenant.  This is the way that people who are living outside of a Covenant operate.  They’re always concerned about what am I going to have to eat, what am I going to have to wear.  Where am I going to live; all these natural things but then He says, “But if you’ll seek first the Kingdom of God.”  In other words “If you make God the priority of your life, if you make Him the focus of your attention then all of these things are going to be added unto you.  Which leaves me to say this, the purpose for the very first commandment is so that God can bring blessing into our life.  You have to understand that God in bringing forth the Ten Commandments was not trying to cramp our style and trying to make life difficult for us.  He was saying “If you will do these things, you are going to see an outpouring of My blessing the same way Jesus said “If you seek first the Kingdom of God all of these things are going to be added.”  He didn’t say “They’re going to be taken away from you.”  He said “You are going to be blessed; you are going to have everything that you needed plus, you are going to be overwhelmed by the very blessing of God.

Sid: What about the time that Jesus said to people “I never knew you.” Explain that scripture.

Robert:  Right, well it’s very interesting that Jesus said “Many will come to me in that day.”  And I think that it’s very interesting that He used the word “Many.”  But He said “Many will come to me in that day and say “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name; have we not cast out devils in Your Name?”  Have we not healed the sick in Your Name; have we not done all of these wonderful, glorious things.  And which we are even commanded to do and even exhorted to do as believers.  And we can do as believers because of the supernatural power of God.  But then this is what Jesus says; He says “Then I’ll look  at them and say “Depart from me you who practice lawlessness.” So it’s very interesting from this particular account that Jesus begins to declare and begins to teach on. He sayings “You know you called Me Lord, you prophesied, you did all these things however there’s something missing in your life.” And that is this “You practiced lawlessness.”  And lawlessness is basically is living void of law; living without any law.  And again law for many Christians law is almost like a cuss word it’s a bad word for so many people.

Sid: All of us have heard the praise “We’re no longer under the law.”  What does that mean to you?

Robert: Well, of course I do agree to a certain degree, there are certain aspects of law that we are  no longer under.  I mean I’m glad that I can go to church and I don’t have to bring some type of sacrifice; I can bring the sacrifice of praise.  Blood sacrifices, these types of sacrifices, these types of things that were involved in Levitical law are no longer applicable to us and Jesus took care of that at the cross.  However, everyone of the Ten Commandments are rearticulated in the New Testament.  And so to say that we are in some way no longer under that again as I have already spoken about that some we actually have the Law of God written on our hearts now.  So if anything we are actually tied to moral law to a greater degree now as those under the New Covenant than even  those that lived under the New Covenant.

Sid: Give me an example of somebody in your church that grabbed hold of your teaching and what happened to them.

Robert: We had one gentleman; he was actually a used car salesman and he was you stereo-typical used car salesman and he would try to make a buck off everything. He really lived his life as a taker.  We began to teach this about learning to live your life as a giver because that is what the commandment of “Do not steal, actually the heart of the commandment is to live your life as a giver.” And anyway he began to turn his life around He began to give; he began to tithe and he began to give offerings; a very very generous giver. As a result of that he owns a million dollar business God has opened up the doors for him and has done this tremendous tremendous supernatural miracle in his life in the area of finances.  And it’s all because he got a hold of of an understanding of that I’m not going to live my life as a taker any more; I’m not going to steal anymore. But I’m going to live my life as a giver.

Sid: My guest is Pastor Robert Gay and Robert on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about what God spoke to you about grace and the Ten Commandments and the great outpouring of God’s Spirit.  And how that many Christians are going to miss this outpouring because they don’t understand the New Covenant revelation of the Ten Commandments which will bring them to a higher level in God in every dimension of their life. Many would say “But Robert, Jesus Himself said “You only have to have 2 Commandments you don’t need the 10.”  What would say to that?

Robert:  Well, the first thing that I would say is that that’s actually not what Jesus said. (Laughing) And the second thing is I would say is to explain what He meant whenever He said it.  Jesus was asked a question and the question is “Which are the greatest Commandments, or which is the greatest Commandment?”  And of course He said “The greatest Commandment is to to “Love the Lord Your God with all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.”  And then He says in the second Command is liken unto it “You’ll love your neighbor as yourself.”  And then He says “On these two Commandments hang all the law and the prophets.  And so what was understood by the Jewish theologians is that the; of course the Ten Commandments were on two tablets.  The first tablet had to do with you loving the Lord; loving God.  The second tablet actually had to do with loving your neighbor as yourself and your behavior toward your neighbor.  So the first tablet had to do with the relationship we had to do with God.  The second tablet had to do with the relationship between man and his neighbor.  And so it was understood that that comprised the Ten Commandments.  So whenever Jesus actually said “To love the Lord your God with all your soul, all your heart and all your mind and all your strength” that was an immediate reference back to the first tablet.  And then when He said “Love your neighbor as yourself.” That’s an immediate reference back to the second table.”  And to even further verify that we see how that Paul said that “Loving your neighbor as yourself  actually caused all the other commandments particularly located in the second tablet how it caused all of them to be fulfilled.”

Sid: What did God show you about the Ten Commandments in the Prophet Jeremiah?

Robert: Well, Jeremiah began to speak over there in the 31st chapter of Jeremiah how that there was a New Covenant that was coming.  And what was different about the New Covenant was this God said, “I will write My law upon their hearts.”  And so there’s no indication that there would be so much a change of moral law but that the location of where the moral law was at that was what was going to change.  And so in the New Covenant what we have now is that we actually have those Commandments that are written upon our hearts rather than written on tables of stone.  So what we have now is a internal law that motivates us rather than an external law that imposes upon us.  So grace can in no way separate us from the Ten Commandments it actually ties us to them even to a greater degree.  Now we know that they are actually fulfilled through love but understand more to be fulfilled through love there must be something that needs to be fulfilled.  And I believe what we are to fulfill is obedience to the Ten Commandments.

Sid: What one of the things that to me is an amazing revelation is that you call your book “Next Level.”  You’ve see that when people look at the Ten Commandments with grace it’s the only way to live.  Give us some examples.

Robert:  Well, again we’ve seen so many folks who as they grab a hold of this revelation first of all it begins to change the way that they live.  It changes their behavior; it changes they’re outlook on life because now I’m not looking at grace merely as something that covered my sin; as wonderful and great as that is but the grace of God is the fact that I am now empowered to live above sin.  That’s the reason Paul said “Sin will not have dominion over you.” And the reason for that is because now I live my life by the law of the Spirit.  But the law of the Spirit is not contrary to the Ten Commandments.  And so what we have to begin to realize as we begin to receive this revelation; as we begin to understand that we can live life at a higher level.  You know I know of churches that have taught and even pastors many times that have taught that you just can’t help but sin there’s no way that you can live a lifestyle of obedience.  And I believe that the grace of God is greater than that and I believe that we can live at a higher level. And as we begin to do that it opens up realms to us that causes things to begin to take place within our lives that are only available when we only experience as a result of obedience and adherence to what God has called us to do.

Sid: Give me an example; take one of the Commandments and show us how it operates under grace.

Robert:  Well, let’s just take for instance the Commandment of – the 2^nd Commandment which is “You’re not to make any graven image and you’re not to bow down to that image.” Really the heart of the Commandment is all about worship.  AS a matter of fact where it actually commands for those to not bow down to idols.  The word bow down there the Hebrew word is translated repeatedly through the Books of Psalms as worship.  So the commandment is not so much don’t have any sculptured idol; that really was not what God was speaking about.  But He was talking about worship; He was talking about the mandate of worship and how worship is so important.  I think that it’s so interesting to…as you even begin to look at that Commandment that whenever, Jesus was being tempted by the devil in the wilderness He actually used that Commandment to overcome the devil.  The enemy came to Him; the devil came to Him and said “You can have all of these things things that you are looking at right now; all the kingdoms of this world you can have them right now if you’ll bow down and worship me.”  What Jesus uses then to overcome the devil He reaches back over into the 2^nd Commandment and He begins to actually quote the 2^nd Commandment and He says “You will only worship the Lord and Him only will you serve.”  And so Jesus is actually restating the 2^nd Commandment which is a commandment about worship.  And what’s very interesting Sid is after Jesus says that the Bible says that the devil left him.  It’s interesting that when we start worshiping God how that actually causes the devil to begin to run away.  I think that there are a lot of believers that would have a lot less trouble in their life if they begin to live a lifestyle of worship; a lifestyle of praise. But that is all withheld in the 2^nd Commandment we can see that mandate of worship that we see dictated in the 2^nd Commandment.

Sid: You know I’m reminded; I’m told that when you worship at your congregation you’ve literally without an altar call or anything had people run to the altar to be saved.

Robert: And we have had that happen on numerous occasions.  We had one time a gentleman that had actually decided that he was going to be an atheist.  And not only but he had left his wife and he had filed for divorce.  They had went through a divorce; he had came back and visited in a service and in the middle of worship God got a hold of of his heart; God got a hold of his heart.  He came down in the middle of worship and he rededicated his life and today their family’s back together; today they’re serving the Lord.

Sid: You know on tomorrow’s broadcast the revelations that God has given you on the New Covenant understanding of the connection between grace and the 10 Commandments.  I believe every Christian has to hear this; in fact my experience; well it’s been your experience even knowing all of the Ten Commandments.

Robert:  Well, I think that it can definitely be argued from just the life styles that many people who call themselves Christians live I think that it can be argued that they don’t even know the 10 Commandments. And I believe that we need to have a fresh understanding; and you know you think about this God could have said anything that he wanted to say to his people, declare to Moses their on mount Sinai. But there were 10 specific edicts that God gave.  Well if God felt that it was so important that He Himself would come down and engrave those in tablets of stone I believe that we as Christians should definitely place some value upon these commands that God given to us.

Sid: Well, I love the uniqueness of your teaching.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone at his office in Tampa, Florida is Dr. John Miller. He is a chiropractor that has studied healing for almost for 40 years, but the last 22 God has opened his eyes to healing in the Passover. This weekend begins Pesach, begins Passover, that’s why he’s my guest. On yesterday’s broadcast… we’ve been talking about discerning the body because many people do not receive their healing in communion because they don’t really understand what happened at the Last Supper. The greatest revelation of what happened is found in the Old Covenant in Isaiah the 53^rd chapter which my Orthodox Jewish father, the last thing in the world he wanted to say was there’s a description of Jesus in the Old Testament, in the Jewish scriptures. When I read Isaiah 53 for the first time to my dad Dr. John Miller, when I read that to him and at that time he was a non-believing Orthodox Jew he said “Stop you’re reading about Jesus” and I said “Dad this was written 800 years before Jesus came to earth. It’s in our own Jewish scriptures” and I had to show him the Bible was a Jewish Bible. Because it is definitely the 53^rd chapter of Isaiah is in the Jewish scriptures, it’s just not read in the synagogue. So that’s why the word of God says “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge” and many Jewish people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge of God’s word. The unfortunate thing is, Dr. John Miller, many Christians are destroyed for a lack of knowledge of God’s word. You were teaching yesterday on that most significant passage Isaiah 53 if you would begin teaching on that now.

John: Okay we had covered “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows” and mentioned that the word “born” is “nasah” which means removed; griefs was the Hebrew word “kholi” which means diseases and sicknesses, and sorrows is the Hebrew word “m’cabah” which means affliction, grief, pain and sorrow. So the prophesy says that “Jesus is going to remove our sicknesses and diseases.” Now this is proven in the New Testament by Matthew’s writing in Matthew 8:17 that says “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.” Now when you consider that Matthew one of the apostles of Jesus was a Jew and could read Hebrew he knew exactly what Isaiah 53:4 said. I have heard discussion about translators of different translations of the Bible said “That we cannot give the Hebrew the literal meaning, or the Full Gospel people will have exactly what they want.”

Sid: Hmm.

John: Now can you imagine hiding the word of God because it disagrees with your belief (Laughing). Verse 5 actually sums up the entire atonement because as a man we are spirit, soul, and body. I pray that your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless till the coming of the Lord, Paul teaches us. This is such a beautiful verse of scripture that sums up the entire atonement. It says “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities.” Transgressions and iniquities are sin, that has to do with your spiritual atonement. “The chastisement of our peace was upon him,” that’s the mental the peace that passes all understanding. “And with his stripes we are healed” so we have the full atonement what Jesus did at Cavalry to redeem us spiritually, mentally, and physically. I want the people to understand Jesus was made to be sin for us. 2^nd Corinthians 5:21 says “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” So at Cavalry Jesus was made to be sin. Where did God get the sin to make Him sin with? 1^st Peter 2:24 tells us “Who his own self took our sins in his own body.” So God reached forward into time and space 2000 years, took our sin, put in Jesus and then exhausted His wrath against our sin on Jesus. At the same time we find out He was made be sick with our sicknesses. Isaiah 53 verse 10 says “Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief.” Here again the English translation is incorrect. The Hebrew word there “grief” is “chalah” 2, 470 times that is translated sick in the Old Testament. So it says, literally, “Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath made Him to be sick” not “He hath put Him to grief.” Well it pleased the Lord to make Jesus sick with our sicknesses so that we could walk in health. It’s just almost impossible for the human mind to conceive that God had so much love for the human race that He would put His only begotten son in that position. There’s a song that says “I just want to make sure He gets what He paid for.” He already took the thorns in the scalp, the lashes on the back for healing, crucified on the cross. If we don’t take advantage of it, then He’s not getting what He paid for. So it’s our job on this radio program to make sure Jesus gets what He paid for by people taking advantage of the fact that Jesus was made sick with their sicknesses, just as well as He was made to be sin with their sin.

Sid: Something I’d like to do on tomorrow’s broadcast so I want to give you a heads up. We’re going to take communion tomorrow because as you know this weekend begins Passover, and that’s the occasion of the Last Supper, and where we learn about communion. I’m going to have John share in English, and I’ll actually be chanting the Hebrew melodies. The same Hebrew prayers that Yeshua, that’s Hebrew for Jesus, chanted. John I have a question, does it matter to God if you have grape juice, or wine, or just any type of fruit juice when you’re taking communion?

John: No because the wine that we use at communion is not the literal blood, it’s something that we’re using as a tangible to make us realize it. The human lives in a physical body, in a physical world, and relate physically more than anything else that’s why He gave us baptism. So when you go in the water and come back up you’re identifying with the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah. Now you talked about people earlier that have taken communion and asked for healing for years and never gotten it. You know probably every one of those people felt if Jesus walked in the room and they could touch Him they would be healed. Well that’s what God provided through communion is our physical representation of touching Jesus, and partaking of His sacrifice.

Sid: John tell me some people that have been recently healed taking communion, but even more important when you teach this are many people healed?

John: Yes many people are being healed. As this message goes forth more and more preachers are talking about it on TV, and I hear more and more results from the message testimonies where people have been healed. One of my favorite stories Sid is I presented this teaching in Largo, Florida. About 6 months later a lady called me from that church and said her and husband were members in that church and they weren’t there that Sunday I gave the teaching, but everybody was talking about the teaching so they ordered the tape. She says “My husband is a very private man and really doesn’t discuss any private issues with me.” He had cancer of the bladder and even wore a bag on his leg where the urine dripped to. After they received the tape he would come home and say “Where is that tape of Dr. Miller.” He would go back in his bedroom and listen to it. She said “Every night he listened to it for about a week.” She said “I knew it was working when he said ‘Would you please get me some wine and some unleavened bread.’” So every night when he would get home he’d go back in his bedroom. She said “Not only is he totally healed, but he was always such a quiet and shy person that he would never get up and say anything in church.” She said “Today my husband is teaching your communion message in Full Gospel Businessmen’s Fellowship meetings all over the country.” (Laughing)

Sid: Hmm. Let me ask you kind of a little different thing, what about couples that are having marital problems? Could communion help them?

John: I was surprised when I was on the Perry Stone show and he said the churches he went to where he had taught this the pastors were saying “They’re hardly having to do any marriage counseling because it was straightening out all of their marriage.” Because the third part of our atonement “The chastisement of our peace was upon Him” that’s the mental. The Israelites had to eat ALL of the lamb, they had to eat the brain which would not only straighten out their thinking, but would heal their brain physically. I know a man that used to be a boxer and he’s pretty rough personality. He told me that his kids would tell him once in a while “Dad it’s been a while since you’ve had communion (Laughing).

Sid: Hmm.

John: Because when he takes communion regularly his personality is much calmer.

Sid: I can see where whole families if they start taking communion together will start walking in what Jesus told us was the most important commandment, the Shema “To love God with all of our spirit, soul, and body, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourself.” Somehow I see that as a mighty catalyst for families to really demonstrate God’s love.

John: Yeah you should take on the mind of Christ…

Sid: Woops we’re out of time.

SID: You know what is so amazing is John and his wife are being dealt with by God to adopt a little girl in Ukraine, this little girl was praying something in Ukraine. What was she praying?

JOHN: She was praying for a forever family.

SID: I don’t know about you, but God, you are amazing. God, you are amazing. And you know, when you adopt, sometimes they come with a lot of baggage. But John was taught the power of blessing his children. And what do you do with that big family of yours?

JOHN: Well all my children have come to expect one thing from me, and that is to be blessed. And they won’t go to bed until I bless them at night. And what’s really cool is to adopt these three children and now be able to impart that same blessing, to impart to them the equal rights as though they were a biological child.

SID: You know, there is a scripture in which Moses is instructed by God that if he would bless the children of Israel a certain way that God’s name would be inscribed on that. I believe that you can bless everyone. Some of you have never been blessed by your father. Just the way you bless your children, but sing it. Would you do that right now?

JOHN: Absolutely. [singing] May the Lord bless and keep you, make His face to shine upon you and raise his countenance on you and give you peace. And may the Lord make like you a crying man in… forgetting the troubles of your past and having a fruitful future.

SID: Wow. John, when you have a concert and you share people get set free from anxiety, depression, addiction. Tell me about someone who was set free from addiction.

JOHN: Well a couple years ago I was doing an event and a guy came up to me and he said, “I saw you in concert with my wife about a year ago.” He said, “My marriage was on the rocks.” He said, “I’ve been struggling with an addiction, with pornography that I had struggled with since I was young.” And he said, “I had never been blessed before, not by my father or by anybody.” He said, “But when you sang those blessings over me that night, God set me free, my marriage is doing very well. I’m walking in victory from this.” And he said, “I just wanted to thank you.”

SID: You wrote a song called, “I Know My God.” Because I have to tell you something. If you don’t know your God, the devil is around there like a roaring lion, and he will feed you lies. Even after you’ve been physically healed, the symptoms will come back. You’ve got to resist the devil and he’ll flee as in terror. But you had that happen to you. Is that how you got the song, “I Know My God”?

JOHN: You know, the enemy is always looking for an opportune time to come back. If you’ve been set free from something he’s always going to try to come back and convince you otherwise. And he’s tried to do that with me for years. I remember when we were about to adopt the kids, I was like, how in the world am I to take care of all these children? What if I lose my voice tomorrow? What if the depression comes back? And so I battled with the enemy one night, and just extreme fear came upon me. And I battled the best way I knew how. I finally went to sleep and I woke up the next morning with this thought in my head. I don’t know what the future holds. I don’t know if I’ll be able to sing for the rest of my life. But I do know my God. I do know that He will take care of me. I do know that He supplies all my needs. I do know that He set me free. He’s my deliverer. He’s my healer. So I do know that

SID: John, if you would go to the music set right now. And that’s the whole purpose of life. Do you know your God? John Waller, he knows his God. He wants you to know his God.

JOHN [music, singing]: When it seems like I am done, when it looks like there’s no way and the lies come like a flood, oh I know my God. So I set my eyes above and I realign my heart. Where my hell comes from, I trust ’cause I know my God. Hallelujah, hallelujah. I know my God, come heal me. I know my God, do not delay. Hallelujah, hallelujah. I know my God will hold me up ’cause my rock and will not judge. I know my God. I know my savior. I will look into the mountains when my strength is gone. When my enemy surrounds me I will sing my song. I know my God and He will say, I know my God will not delay. Hallelujah, hallelujah. I know my God will hold me up ’cause He’s my rock. I know my God. I know my savior.

SID: Remember the little orphan in Ukraine, Anna, is praying to God, “I want a forever family.” Well God is praying for you right now. He’s saying, “I have my arms open to you. I want you to be in my forever family.” If you make Jesus your Messiah and Lord, believe he forgave you of your sins, rose from the dead, and ask him to live inside of you, he will right now.

SID: I’m Sid Roth. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is an expert in terrorism and he is going to speak about secret papers that have been found that show for the plans of terrorist organizations to destroy the United States of America, and it won’t be a secret any more. My guest, Eric Stakelbeck, is one of the foremost experts in terrorism. And you’ve probably seen Eric on CNN or on Fox, or a number of different shows in which he’s a resource for what’s going on the world. But the thing that just absolutely astounds me is I knew something about a terrorist group called the Muslim Brotherhood, but I had no idea, Eric. Tell me a bit about the Muslim Brotherhood. Why does the media, our administration, posture them as moderate? What’s the reason?

ERICK: Sid, first of all, their tactics. They dress like you and I. They wear suits and ties. They are eloquent. They are Western educated. They speak fluent English. This is not Al-Qaeda. These are not the guys with the flowing beards and the robes, and the AK-47s. The Muslim Brotherhood are very charming, Sid, and I’ve interviewed them face to face. I’ve been in their homes. I’ve been in their mosques. I’ve been in their offices. And Sid, if I didn’t know any better, I would actually like them. They are quite charming. But that charming façade and veneer hides a sinister agenda, Sid. And at the end of the day, they share the same goals as Al-Qaeda.

SID: But you know what it reminds of, as you’re sharing this, Eric, the KKK. They used to wear the robes and now they put on business suits. Are they college educated? Are they bright?

ERICK: Yes. Sid, not only are they college educated, many of them have been educated in the West, in the United States, in Europe. People would be shocked to know about the Muslim Brotherhood presence in the United States. Sid, they are here. I’ll give you a great example. Mohammed Morsi, the now deposed Egyptian president, he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, not in Egypt, but in the United States, in California when he was a student at USC, the University of Southern California. That’s where Mohammed Morsi became a Muslim brother. Sid, they are here in the United States.

SID: Now you say they’re a new breed beyond the suit. They’re raising homegrown terrorists. What do you mean?

ERICK: Sid, we’ve seen case after case over the past few years in the United States, dozens of cases, young American Muslims, U.S. citizens being arrested on terrorism charges. Sid, I’ll give you great example of this Muslim Brotherhood style link and how they’re really the driving force behind all the Islamic terror we see today. The Boston bombers, those two young brothers up in Boston, killed three people, wounded 264 more. Sid, they attended a mosque in the Boston area controlled by a Muslim Brotherhood linked group. Surprise, surprise.

SID: I heard in the news that the Muslim Brotherhood has been out to the White House at least a hundred times in the last calendar year.

ERICK: Sid, Muslim Brotherhood-connected individuals, individuals with strong ties to the global Muslim Brotherhood network absolutely are advising our government, the U.S. government on its counter-terrorism and Middle East policies. This is the epitome of the fox guarding the hen house. And you wonder why America’s Middle East policies right now are kind of a mess and we see all this chaos in the Middle East. We have the bad guys, the Brotherhood, in the halls of power in our lawmakers’ ears.

SID: All right. You used the phrase, that the granddaddy of all terrorism. Do you really mean that, Eric?

ERICK: Sid, I mean it 100 percent. All of the terrorist chaos, the madness we see today, the war on terror, Al-Qaeda, Hamas, spawned by the Muslim Brotherhood, Sid, Al-Qaeda is an offshoot of the Brotherhood. Hamas is an offshoot of the Brotherhood. Sid, I made the point many times that without the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in 1928, there would have been no 9-11. I say that without hesitation. It may shock some people. But everyone behind the 9-11 attack, Sid, the American people need to know this, why this group is so important, the Brotherhood. Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the hijackers, every last one of them, Sid, before they joined, before they formed Al-Qaeda, they belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood is really the gateway drug to Islamic terrorism and jihad.

SID: What is going on in America? I see mosques just sprouting up all over.

ERICK: Sid, this is not a coincidence. I’m so glad you brought this up. Because the number of mosques in America, a lot of viewers might not be aware of this, the number of mosques in America has actually doubled since 2000, since the year 2000. Now if you look at the Muslim Brotherhood strategic documents, and by the way, Sid, these mosques are not just in New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, areas with large Muslim populations. They’re popping up in the Bible belt, taking overseas funding. Why, Sid, if you have such a small Muslim community, why do you need such a large sprawling mosque complex? The imams, and I’ve interviewed them, they can answer, and they also can answer where the money is coming from.

SID: Okay. Why did they need so many in these small areas?

ERICK: Sid, if you look at the Muslim Brotherhood strategic documents, and by the way, people might be shocked to know that our government, the U.S. government has the Muslim Brotherhood’s documents in its possession. The secret documents that I’ve written about, long story short, during the raid of the leading Muslim Brotherhood operatives, just outside of Washington, D.C., 10 minutes from our capitol, this guy had set up shop, the FBI raided his home, they uncovered these secret Muslim Brotherhood documents that outline a strategy to “destroy western civilization, America, from within.” And one way they’re going to do that, Sid, according to their own documents, is to build mosques from coast to coast. This is a central tenant of the Brotherhood’s strategic plan to subvert America from within.

SID: And how come there’s these schools of Islam springing up at major universities? I mean, how does Harvard have a school of Islam? It used to be a Jewish university? How does Georgetown, a Catholic university, have these schools?

ERICK: It’s the money, Sid. Look at the money trail. This Georgetown Islamic branch at Georgetown University, a Catholic university, $20 million. Harvard, $20 million. Came from the same man, a Saudi prince, and the Saudis are the main purveyors, you would say of spreading radical Islam worldwide. And it’s very interesting. They have billions of dollars in these petro dollars, Sid, with this oil empire they have in Saudi Arabia. And they are missionaries in many ways, spreading Islam throughout Europe, throughout America, billions and billions of dollars over the past few decades. And they have worked with the Muslim Brotherhood, by the way. The Saudis provide the money. The Brotherhood provides the imams and the ideologues at these mosques. That has been the blueprint, traditionally, very interesting strategy that they have.

SID: One last question. Is it true that the Koran says, when you’re small, when Islam is small, be peace-loving. Once you get larger, take over.

ERICK: This is the example Mohammed said. It’s absolutely true. Mohammed was not a political leader. When he was just a struggling so called prophet in the city of Mecca, Mohammed was more conciliatory towards Jews and Christians. He wanted to win them to his side. Later on in his career, Sid, he went to the city of Medina, became a warrior, a political leader. All of a sudden, his so called revelations changed and became more violent and more intolerant of Christians and Jews. Once Mohammed gained the power, he became much more intolerant and violent towards non-Muslims.

SID: I want to talk about these secret documents when we come back.

Sid:  I promise you if you’re look warm and you choose to be red hot for the Messiah there will be such an outpouring of God’s glory that even as I’m speaking to you right now people are being healed. I heard that there are people in the necks if you move your head you’ll see the pain is gone. In the back, the hip any bone problem; any ache you are healed in Jesus Name.  My guest, and I have him in Chicago is Renny McLean, and his wife Marina McLean I have her in Dallas; this is really high-tech.  But Marina all this week we’ve been featuring Renny’s new book “Eternity Invading Time” and I want a demonstration of eternity invading time.  What is actually happening in the invisible realm when a true worshiper of God worships God in Spirit and in truth Marina?

Marina:  What happens is that worship sets the atmosphere of the earth for the glory of God and when you worship you’re recreating the glory of God rising from the Earth.  As early morning the due rises from the earth to the sky and you just set the presence of God ripe for anything to happen.

Sid: Speaking of anything you told me the last time we got together about a word of knowledge and a lady was healed of AIDS, I believe Renny had the word what happened?

Marina:  It was an unusual service and Renny looked at this lady and started praying by word of knowledge he said she had AIDS the HIV virus and we all thought “Oh my goodness he’s missed it nobody that would come into a service like this with HIV.”  And she was slain as he prayed for her and she got up and she just looked a little different and she went away and she went to see her doctor.  And when she walked into the room her doctor knew that something had happened and he did the test on her and could find no trace of HIV. The powerful thing about this miracle was that she was part of a support group for others with HIV and she was able to go out and evangelize to them.  And because of the miracle in her life her children came to church the following Sunday and gave their heart to the Lord.

Sid: Out of curiosity when she ministers now are people healed of AIDS?

Marina: I think so, we haven’t seen her in a while and the last time we saw her was a few years before we left London and she put on weight which is a good sign when you put on weight after having HIV, and just looked incredible.

Sid: Now Marina I’m going to ask you to worship God and this is what I believe Mishpochah, as Marina worships God, and as I worship God, and as Renny worships God, and as you worship God as this occurs I want you to worship God too.  If you’re driving I want you to pull off to the side of the road because I believe that eternity, God’s realm, is about ready to invade time, our realm.  Eternity will draw close as we worship God; this is not just techs book theology this is reality.  Marina would you worship the Lord?

Marina: (Praying in the Spirit singing song.)

Sid: Renny what are you seeing now?

Renny:  I’m seeing people being miraculously healed.  I just saw a cancer dissolve and a woman’s upper area in a woman’s chest area.  I see hernias right now leaving; even as I’m speaking I’m continuing seeing a lot of hernias leaving right now. I’m seeing somebody’s right, I’m seeing somebody with a hip condition and it’s caused your leg to be shorter than the other by about 2 to 3 inches.  I’m seeing miracles happening now with people’s bones.  I’m seeing the leg now just grow out in Jesus Name.  I just want everybody that’s sick right now to put their hands on their sickness right now it’s being healed right now, it’s being healed right now.  I just saw another hip condition; I just saw a hip that was out of place just get back into place; I’m seeing it right now.  I’m seeing a broken arm mend; I’m seeing it start to set. I’m seeing somebody right now with a leg brace on.  You’ve had the leg brace on now for about 2  to 3 years years and I don’t fully know the exact condition but you’ve had it on for at least 2 to 3 years and it isn’t getting better.  It’s a condition you were in an accident and you were cut out of the car wreck and you were told you will have to live that way and you cannot feel anything in your legs.  Right now the power of God right now is creating the feeling right now and you’re starting to feel your leg but you’ve not felt in years right now because it was stitched back on because you had a car accident and now life is coming back now to that part of the body. A creative miracle right now has just taken place; I see a woman right now I see a woman right now; I see a pelvis fracture.  I just see it again; I see another pelvis condition right now.  I see as it were somebody you had a fracture from an accident I cannot describe it but all I’m seeing is a cracked pelvis.  And you’re wearing something like a hip brace or something and right now the power of God right now goes through you right now and you’re feeling a tingling sensation right now you’re feeling it even as I’m saying it and it’s starting to be healed right now.  It’s now complete you’re going to find out if you take it off you’re going to find out it’s going to feel hard, it’s going to feel solid; the Lord has healed it it’s totally recreated it.  I’m seeing somebody right now in a wheelchair right now and I’m seeing right now where the Lord’s had is all over you.  You sense a warmth going down you, that’s right you’re in a wheelchair through a spinal condition and right now even as I’m speaking right now you can feel something going down the back of your spine going down into the nerve system.  And you’re starting to feel life come back into the spin; that’s the creative miracles right there.  In Jesus Name right now life is coming back; now you can feel the rest of your legs in Jesus Name you are healed today I can see it even as I’m speaking it.  I’m seeing it get up rise, walk; there’s people right now watching, listening to us right now with crutches… I just saw somebody specifically you just came out of the hospital you’re recovering from a stroke and you’re slow of speech but right now that paralysis right now is lifting off your face; your face is becoming normal again in Jesus Name. It’s as if the devil right now isn’t letting go of that side of your body. It’s as if he pinched your nerves and everything was held up.  All of your body right now smoothens out.  Your speech now returns; I just saw it come back right now; you speech returns.  And as a prophetic sign stand up on your feet and start to lift your knees up; start to kick your knees out and start to walk. Miracles are happening now; they are happening now.  I’m seeing a teeth condition right now, yes God even heals teeth God even does fillings. I’m seeing somebody with the back four of their teeth right now is in serious decay; I’m seeing God miraculously healing. I’m not talking tomorrow I’m talking now; a miracles happened. Oh, I’ll tell you brother Sid there are so many miracles happening right now I can barely keep up with what I’m seeing.

Sid: Renny the reason the miracles are happening is the glory realm the eternity realm has invaded time.

Renny: Yes.

Sid: We work about a month ahead of ourselves, but I literally got off the airplane yesterday from Israel. I experienced things, I’ve been in ministry now 30 years and I have never, ever, ever, ever experienced….

Salina: [Laughing]

Sid: You hear Salina Covington laughing in the background. She was one of the team that was with us. Ever, ever, ever, ever… Salina how long have you been in ministry.

Salina: Thirty four years.

Sid: Oh so I’m a baby compared to you, I’m just a little over 30 years.

Salina: [Laughing] Now let me just rearrange that a little bit. I’ve been born again 34 years; I’ve been in ministry 24 years.

Sid: Oh well then you’re the baby. I’ve been in ministry as long as I’ve been a believer. [Laughing] Any way Salina is pastor of church in Youngstown, Ohio, and the name of the church is “The Place Where the Lord Provides.”  Oh did we have a unique dynamic team of people that move in signs and wonders. I received an invitation from the Messianic Jewish Congregations in Israel that there was a New Age festival and would I preach the gospel? As an evangelist at this New Age festival, it was at the Sea of Galilee. They have thousands of New Agers, and booths of every kind, all having to do with… as a matter of fact, if you read Isaiah the first couple of chapters, it talks about this and it talks about the judgment that is coming because of these things. I’ll just read a little from Isaiah chapter 2 verse 6, and He’s talking to Israel and He’s saying “You, Lord, have abandoned your people, the house of Jacob because they are full of superstitions from the East; they practice divination like the Philistines.” Before I was a believer in the Messiah Salina, I was involved in the New Age, but I don’t think I even had my little toe in the water compared to what was going on at that New Age festival. Tell me what you saw with your eyes there.

Salina: Look before I do that I just want to take this opportunity to thank you again and again Sid for the unique experience in the Lord that I was afforded last week. What I experienced and witnessed in person will forever be in Spirit eye. It’s a memory that’ll accompany me to glory. Yesterday in our worship service I tried to convey the congregation some of my week in Israel. It’s hard but I’m gonna try, listeners we were out in a big campground setting that really had 2 things going on at the same time, one part was family orientated so there were children, and if I may use that term family orientated; the other was single and loose and anything was the norm. Some had yellow hair, red hair, and I even saw blue hair, I saw every color hair that was known to man today; some had shaven heads, and the basic color of clothing though was black; girls had spider webs coming from the corners of their eyes painted on their faces. One out of every 3 people you ran into basically had some part of their body pierced or tattooed. All of the girls, all of the women, were half-naked.

Sid: Let me tell you something, if the team I put were not strong believers, and I mean really strong believers… I have seen something like this New Orleans and places like that, but this is nothing compared to what I have ever seen with my eyes, but go ahead.

Salina: The brothers were quite frankly sharing with me later on as the days went on that as they walked down the street they simply either had to look up or look down it was that shameful for them and embarrassing. Now mind you, we’re talking about young people from 13-30. Keep in mind two things as you get this picture, we’re in Israel and all of the Jewish people are celebrating Sukkot so to be out in the open eating and dancing is proper, it’s one of the feasts mandated by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Messiah.

Sid: Of course most of our audience knows Sukkot by its English name the Feast of Tabernacles, but go ahead.

Salina: The Feast of Tabernacles, but you know the devil loves to pervert what God is doing and what He requires for His children to do. Then another thing, because the enemy wants to keep the people of Israel in darkness that had been not too long before they tell me, get this now, a gay parade in Israel. So picture all of this going on at the same time. At one point while we were standing close to the beach area, this guy just came walking down just naked, just walked down like he had on his swimsuit, was properly clothed, there was no thought just walked down and people were looking and saying “Don’t look, look, don’t look, look, don’t look, look.” I have never felt the thickness out in the open that I felt in that campground. Then right in the middle of all the demonic activity, a Satanist with his young followers dancing and casting spells on the innocent. Every kind of booth you could think of, and when you looked in the eyes of the people they tried to draw you in. See they were having a mock sacrifice to their god in the middle of this circle. Along with this action the atmosphere was so filled, so filled with just every kind of evil you could think of that was imaginable; witches, witchdoctors, the spirit of seduction was so strong it was just overpowering at times.

Sid: Of course in the Jewish… all of these people, the majority of these people were Jewish.

Salina: Yes.

Sid: But the Jewish New Age has a name it’s called Kabbalah. Because there’s movie stars in Hollywood that have gone into Kabbalah everyone thinks it’s cute and fun, but it’s not. As a matter of fact, it’s not Jewish it’s just Hinduism repackaged; I don’t even know why they call Kabbalah Jewish it isn’t. There was a rabbi that repackaged Hinduism and they call it Kabbalah and it’s nothing more than Jewish New Age, but go ahead.

Salina: This Kabbalah and these Kabbalah rabbis had their groups that were out there as well. Now you know I found out because I heard that word Kabbalah, Kabbalah since God has been speaking to my heart about the One New Man concept, and our One New Man congregation. There are an awful lot of well-meaning born again believers, Messianic believers as well, who are really wanting to move in the One New Man concept, but they are getting tricked over into Kabbalahism, if that’s a word. They are getting tricked over into practicing those kinds of mind controlling situations.

Sid: What it is is just a religious spirits.

Salina: Yes.

Sid: That’s all it is and I hate religious spirits, but go ahead Salina.

Salina: There was drugs everywhere, and then I was just going to say to top everything off this big religious spirit that was hovering like it was choking at one time. The one thing I didn’t see though over in that one part where anything went was envy and strife. I began to pray and I said God “I’m reminding you of Your word Your word says ‘Where envy and strife is that’s every evil work.’”  I said “Lord I’m looking at this evil work, but these demon spirits were getting along just fine.” There was no problem between them, not one problem. Well that brings us to the other part of the campground, and that’s where the envy and strife was. It was settled in over there to the nth degree the religious people who believed in Jesus Christ, the rabbis who were waiting for Messiah, the rabbis of Kabbalah, Christians who came to witness, people who believed in the dead rabbi from New York, and they’re waiting for him to come back alive…

Sid: Many of you don’t know this, but there is a Chasidic sect called Lubavitcher. There’s a couple a hundred thousand of them in New York City whose rabbi died a number of years ago and they believe he’s gonna come back to life. Well you know the truth of the matter is, they got it partially right because the Messiah must come back to life they just have the wrong candidate, Schneerson will never come back to life. His pictures are all over New York City and Israel, and oi vey. Go ahead Salina.

Salina: Jesus our Messiah He’s alive, He’s alive, he’s well, and He’s on His way back. Then to top those other things off, and right in the middle of all this other stuff the Sid Roth Messianic Team from the United States of America. Sid the fight was on and we didn’t even know it. We were being swung at and because of the power of God, and the angelic protection that we had against us, around, for us, we were sort of like ducking and dodging and didn’t even understand we were being hit at. Oh you see I believe in my heart that God used all of that to get us to go to the part of the campground He wanted us in. See what the enemy means for evil our God uses for good.

Sid: You know what Salina, I think if I had…  I mean I knew what I was getting into, I mean give me a break it was a New Age Festival, so of course I knew what I was getting into, but I didn’t know that it would be… but let’s face it Israel is the highest stakes in the world are Israel. When these Jewish people get red hot for Jesus, and you and I and members of the team led so many Jewish people to the Lord, there were so many physical healings that in the midst of the strongest power that the devil had to offer right under his nose people were getting saved, right under his nose people were getting physically healed. I’ll tell you, had I known what I was walking into I’m not so sure I would have walked in so happy. [Laughing]

Salina: [Laughing] Okay I thought a little New Age, a little love team, put flowers on my head and we’ll be love children here you know it’s going to be easy. This thing took prayer not only in that campground, on that campground, this took prayer before we left.

Sid: Well you even had witchdoctors come in the spirit at night coming after you.

Salina: Oh yes, oh yes.

Sid: I’ll tell you what we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: I found out how everyone everywhere can hear the good news it’s a principal that it’s all over the Bible once your eyes are opened.  But in Roman’s 1:16 Paul said “I’m not ashamed of the gospel” because the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first.  And many people read that verse and they say “Yes, historically the gospel went to the Jew first but that’s it it’s finished.”  No that is God’s spiritual law of evangelism. I have found especially now in this time and season that we’re living in as we go to the Jew first it literally opens up a supernatural door of evangelism greater to Gentiles than if we had gone to the Gentile first.  I have on the telephone Bob Larson I’m speaking to him at his office in Phoenix, Arizona because I got a hold of his latest book it’s called “Larson’s Book of World Religions An Alternative Spirituality.”  It’s all the facts of 100’s of these false religions and it seems like they’re multiplying all the time.  But the reason that I’m so intrigued with this book is number one as you know I come from a traditional Jewish background and I had an encounter with Jesus that I could never, would never deny.  As a matter of fact, I don’t understand the mentality of a backslider; if anyone knows what’s back there it’s the last thing in the world they ever want to do is go back there.  But the thing that I noticed and I’ve read statistics and Bob Larson I really want your spin on this, but it appears as though percentage wise there are more Jews involved in the occult New Age type of movements and especially in higher echelons of leadership than any other religious group. Are you aware of that?

Bob:  I’m very much aware of that. Per capita the percentage is extraordinarily out of line from what would be expected from the normal population sample.

Sid: You know it’s almost as if the devil is fearful of the Jew coming to Jesus and fulfilling their end time callings and is trying to ensnare as many as possible.  I want to shift gears for a second because there’s a very popular basketball coach that practices Zen, or Zen Buddhism, and everyone know this and he’s one of the winningest basketball coaches in the national Basketball Association of all time.  And you know he just wants to be a nice guy and love people; what is Zen Buddhism is there anything wrong with it?

Bob:  Well, I think he’s going to need a lot more Zen when he gets back with the Laker’s next time. (Laughing)

Sid:  (Laughing)

Bob:   (Laughing) Not the same Lakers’ minus Shack.  Zen Buddhism is an offshoot of Buddhism and they are basically the same except that Zen emphasizes the mediating or contemptibly aspects of Buddhism more than mainstream Buddhism does.  Which is essentially now an idolatrous system though it was agnostic at the time of Buddha himself.  Zen Buddhism takes the basic teachings of Buddhism which looks at the eight fold path; the four noble Druze as their called and seeks inward to discover Buddha.  In fact Buddha himself said “Look inward thou art Buddha.”  In other words each one of us inside has the capacity to find the true self or the true spirit self.  Now Zen primary does this through as I said meditation and true nonsensical assault of the senses. They have something called the Koan; it’s an imponderable.  In popular nomenclature sometimes we know them as the phrase “What is the sound of one hand clapping.”  Well, they ask these questions which are designed to shut down the mind to cause one to detach from the material natural world and turn inward so that with the senses stilled you get in touch with pure self.  Now the problem with that is that from a Biblical standpoint we believe that the inner self is not pure, but without Christ the indwelling presence of Holy Spirit if evil and sinful.  You know “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked” the Prophet Jeremiah said.  Well, the practitioners of Zen would have you to believe that’s not true that the inner self is absolutely pure and if you find it you find ultimate reality.

Sid: Why is it that so many people that would turn up their noses at real Christianity are attracted to things like that?

Bob:  Because it requires no moral quantification.  In other words when you find your true self it’s presumed whatever actions result from that will be moral because the true self is moral. You see the Decalogue and the whole purpose of God calling out a chosen people and giving them the law was as the Old and New Testament teaches to let us know what sin is; to know when we’ve missed the mark when we’ve offended God and when we need forgiveness. But there is no need for forgiveness in Zen, there’s no need for moral rectitude because you are you own inner guide of what is right.

Sid: You know when you talk about Zen there is a whole series of movies called “Star Wars.” Although you don’t deal with this specifically many Christians indorse and love Star Wars because it’s good versus evil and they see the good is God and they see the evil as the devil.  But that’s not your spin is it?

Bob:  No it’s not and you need to know that George Lucas, the man responsible for Star Wars, from the beginning has stated repeatedly and does so even more vehemently in interviews related to the latest movie that he is a follower of Buddhism particularly Zen.  He has used these movies to preach Zen philosophy. In fact Yoda that the squat little weird guy in the movie is a Zen master.  That’s why he speaks in riddles when he talks; these are very similar to the Cohen’s used by the Zen masters.

Sid: Now you mentioned the most recent movie it’s called I believe Sith?

Bob:  Revenge of the Sith. 

Sid: Okay, this teaches about white magic and black magic and where to they mix their understanding up.

Bob:  Well, here’s the problem. In all of the Star Wars epics you have something called the force, may the force be with you.  The force is neither good nor evil it’s moral quantification depends upon the choice of the person using it.  So if evil Darth Vader uses it the force is bad; if good Luke Skywalker uses it the force then becomes good.  Now this is one of the oldest teachings of the occultism of witchcraft it goes back to the Old Testament; the idea that there’s this neutral primordial energy and force that you can tap into. And you can choose to make it good or you can choose to make it bad.  Now this is contrary to Biblical theology because Biblical theology teaches that good and evil do not come from the same source but from separate sources God and Satan.  And that’s the fundamental error.

Sid: Is there any difference between a black witch and a white witch, black magic and white magic?

Bob:  Absolutely not, in fact any…

Sid: Yeah, but the white witches say “They only use their power for good.”

Bob:  (Laughing) I know.  Anton LaVey before he died in his writing used as a Satanist used to mock white witches and say “Come on now we all know that it’s the same power, it’s the same thing you’re just pretending to use it for good.”  So you know it isn’t how you define the power it’s how God defines the power.

Sid: So what is wrong with a Christian saying “Listen my 10 year old son, my 12 year old daughter they don’t know Zen from men, from anything.”

Bob:   (Laughing)

Sid: What’s wrong with letting them see this movie?

Bob:  It’s a very subtle invasive form of indoctrination that over time can threaten their faith and maybe not in overt ways.  Look recently they did a poll in England and asked people “What is your religious choice?”  Do you know in a country which is officially Christian, and to which the Queen swears fidelity to the Church of England, more people said they were followers of the Force of Star Wars than any other religious institution in England. Now how did that happen?  Gradually over two decades this idea has been gripping the minds of people. And the faith of our children is far too precious to risk under that circumstance.

Sid: See I happen to believe that the next, the greatest, and maybe the last move of God’s Spirit on planet Earth is were inches away from that.  And I happen to believe that God is going to use young people and that’s why the devil is working overtime if you will in the popular secular arena that’s supposed to think that’s neutral Star Wars or how about the book “Harry Potter?”

Bob:   Oh “Harry Potter” you know is again basically the same philosophy, it’s the philosophy of witchcraft.  Well, Harry’s a good witch; he is a witch but he’s a good witch.  And he uses spells and incantations but hey…

Sid: I was on a plane and there was a Christian man and his son next to me and the son was reading you know the latest “Harry Potter” book. I said to the father “You said you’re a Christian, why are you letting your son read this?”  He said “Well, I want him to understand everything that’s out there.”

Bob:  Well, there will be a time when that child values are sufficiently formed and grounded in the faith that they may entertain discussions or even perhaps read things which are contrary to faith as a means as seeing the devils alternative viewpoint, but that time is not when they’re a young child or a developmental stage emotionally and spiritually.

Sid: I’ll tell you what I want to pick up here on Harry Potter as well as Star Wars…