Sid Roth

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. James Richards I’m interviewing him on his book “How to Stop the Pain.” Pain maybe in evitable but suffering optional, but what’s even more exciting to me is there are walls between husbands and wives, children and parents, wives and husbands, pastors and members of the congregations, employers and employees, schoolmates everything these walls… and God is supernaturally showing us how these walls can come down and we don’t have to keep that pain Yeshua took the pain for us. But one of the most fascinating things Jim in your book has to do with the correlation between sickness and judgment. On yesterday’s broadcast you were saying that physiologically when we make judgments we open ourselves it’s almost like a door is open for sickness explain this.

Jim: Exactly that’s right and incredibly the mind always seeks equilibrium. In other words, the moment you pass a judgment everything in your mind and in your brain actually goes to work to prove that it’s true. There’s a little bundle of nerves…

Sid: Give me an example of a judgment and then explain what you’re explaining.

Jim: Okay the judgment is assuming to know why someone is doing something. Of course the brain actually does this on any assumption it doesn’t have to be a judgment. I’ll give you a good example let’s say you look down the street here and you a lady and she kind of dressed maybe what you might consider a little like a temptress or something.

Sid: And you see, hay not down the street you see them in church.

Jim: Yeah.

Sid: And you form that judgment, that everyone can relate there.

Jim: You say “This is why she is this way she’s loose she’s immoral.” And you watch her as she walks down the street and you notice that she’s walking up to men and talking to them. So you’re absolutely sure then that she’s a prostitute and that she’s trying to sell herself to these men. And everything that you begin to see there’s a little bundle of nerves called the reticular activating system at the base of the skull…

Sid: And you know the devil doesn’t even have to function in this you’re doing just fine you’re doing his job. (Laughing)

Jim: You’re doing his job and he’s taking a little break and laughing at you. Well the moment that you pass a judgment or make an assumption the reticular activating system starts changing the function of the brain and you go into selective processing and you begin to only see and notice those things that support your judgment or your opinion. So now you’re seeing all of this stuff that tells you this woman’s a prostitute. Now when she gets up to you she walks up to you you’re ready for her to proposition you she hands you a track and you find out that she’s a Christian and she was witnessing to those people and you didn’t even notice that she was carrying a Bible, and you didn’t even notice any of these other factors all you noticed would be those things that would support your judgment.

Sid: Selective editing.

Jim: And we do that I don’t know if you’ve ever done it you go to the grocery store and you’re wife says go pick up this stuff and make sure you get this brand and make sure that it doesn’t have any salt in it. You run in the grocery store you look at the label you pick it up you run back home; you open the bag and you proudly hand it to your wife and she’s like “What did you get this for?” And you look at it and its like “That’s not what I bought.” But you and I both know that you can look at something and believe that you’re reading a different label.

Sid: So we humans because of Adams original sin, our disposition is to judge and when we judge what happens now physiologically?

Jim: When we judge… here’s the incredible thing here’s the place that judgment and sickness comes together is basically the judgments we pass about ourselves and even the judgments that we pass about God. If I’m… see guilt brings the expectation of punishment. And so when I commit when I commit a particular sin when I struggle with something and I pass a judgment on God you know and maybe things begin to go wrong in my life I say “This is why this is happening God is doing this to me.” You know we run a substance abuse clinic for years and we found that you can’t get people off drugs and you can’t get people well if they believe God’s doing it to them or they believe that it’s punishment for something they’ve done.

Sid: Hm.

Jim: Now what happens every cell in the body actually has intelligence. With the advent of our understanding of DNA this has become common knowledge in the scientific community. And you figure that there’s enough intelligence in a cell to clone a human being possibly, we know that they can clone an animal so there’s a lot of intelligence there. Well that intelligence in every cell is not just intellectual intelligence it’s also emotional intelligence. So anything that you believe at a very deep level every cell in your body believes it and works to make it happen. So if I’m in expectation of punishment coming to me from something that I have done the fact that I’m expecting that, the fact that I have…

Sid: Isn’t that what Job was saying when he said “The thing that I feared…”

Jim: Sure.

Sid: “…has come upon me?”

Jim: Exactly, that’s what the children of Israel did. They said the tested or tempted God they put God on trial they passed the judgment that says “He could not be trusted.” And that’s why they fell in the wilderness. So the person that believes something every cell in their body works and if you believe for example that you’re unworthy of success then every time you have the opportunity to succeed you’re going to have a conflict with your boss and something’s going to go wrong. And you can scream at the devil you can pray more but the truth is until you release your judgments and renew your mind it’s going to keep going that way.

Sid: Someone that’s accident prone that might be the reason.

Jim: Exactly. Interesting thing, I don’t know if we have enough time to go into this, but I had a problem that where every time I had an off day I got sick. I either got sick, felt bad or injured myself. And so this went on for years and finally after several years in my lightning quick mind I said “There’s a problem, there’s something wrong here.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Jim: I spent some time in prayer and meditation just seeking God and the Lord brought to my memory a time when I was a child and my father had come home and beat my mother all night. And the next morning she was getting ready to go to work I was extremely emotional I was crying and I was pleading with her “Please do not go to work.” And she said “Son as long as I’m able I have to work.” Now I developed a belief from that that said “The only reason not to work is to not be able.” Out of that belief every time I’d get an off day I’d get sick or injure myself and when I realized that all of this was emerging out of my own heart it was as simple as releasing that belief choosing a new belief and moving on and bringing an end to it and it doesn’t happen anymore.

Sid: Do you think that all sicknesses is a result of what you just described?

Jim: No, I don’t think that all sicknesses are we have physiologically things that happen to us. I have found that the ability to recover from sickness is directly related to our beliefs and particularly our beliefs about worthiness.

Sid: Give me another specific example.

Jim: A specific example?

Sid: Yes.

Jim: I have had dozens of people in my clinic that this has happened to. A person comes in… I’ll give you one on weight loss this is

Sid: Oh, I want that one.

Jim: There’s somebody that comes in their… and this actually happened a lady she was probably 300 pounds overweight she had tried everything in the whole world nothing ever worked. I began to work with her and she had lost about 80 or 100 pounds. Suddenly she just loses her mind, metaphorically, goes crazy goes on an eating binge disappears won’t come back into the clinic. Now ultimately what I was eventually able to discover in working with her was that she had a belief that if she was thin that she would get into sin because she had a promiscuous past. And she had passed this judgment about herself and about why I do this and why you know why it would happen to me if I looked thin again. And so even though she was getting the desired results she sabotaged it. Actually studies show that most people’s fatal illness occur at their moments of great opportunity.

Sid: Explain that.

Jim: Really most people don’t believe that they deserve to retire they’ve worked all of their life they don’t feel qualified, they don’t feel it’s right that they have something. Like in my example I grew up believing that I was unlovable. So when I would get in a relationship the moment the relationship would begin to become good I would destroy it and run. See the same thing happened with sickness, it happens with finances if we live out our beliefs and judgments and literally can’t see life any other way.

Sid: Jim how did you come to all of this understanding? This is brilliant it really is.

Jim: Well again you know fortunately for me I wasn’t raised in church so I didn’t have a lot of preconceived ideas. And when I read the Bible I didn’t read it so much from a mystical point of view I read it from a very practical point of view. And really all of this came out of number 1 the pages of the Bible, and then me applying this to my personal life. Then taking it into the lives of the people that I have ministered to for these 30 years.

Sid: Quick give me a testimony of somebody that’s read your book and what’s happened to them.

Jim: This doesn’t have anything to do with healing but one particular testimony pops in mind was a man who calls me and he said “You know something my wife and I have been reading your material.” And he said “We’ve been married we’ve come from a strict background not a lot of love and compassion shown in his background.” He said “You know for the first time in 21 years out of her own initiative she put her arms around me and told me she loved me.”

SID: Now how would you like to have been caught up out of your body, go right through the roof of your house as if it wasn’t there, escorted by angels into Heaven and be chosen to hear a discussion between God and the Messiah about the End Times. Carlos, tell me one thing you eavesdropped on.

CARLOS: I remember hearing clearly that they talked about the difficult hour that lay ahead and how the church would, given the opportunity, to be purged and the opportunity to really experience the greatness of what still lays ahead, the greatest outpouring of the Spirit of God. But clearly, the way the download I was receiving is, I heard all that, reminded me very much of the readings that, you know, you do on an annual basis as a regular Christian on the End Times Book of Revelation, the Book of Daniel. So I remember listening to this conversation and I was brought to my memory was all the judgments that are coming based upon the Book of Revelation and also Joel, Book of Daniel. But I received and I felt like this is an hour, an opportunity for the church to be stronger and to understand the importance to be ready and alert. Because my sense is, for the most part, the body of Christ for the most part is not prepared for what is about to take place.

SID: Okay. Do you think you’ll be alive when all this happens?

CARLOS: I firmly believe that I will be alive. I believe that my eyes will physically see the coming of the Lord. And when you study church history, those who remain on fire for the Lord, even the Apostle Paul and Peter, they believed in their day, in their hour that they would see the coming of the Messiah, the coming of the Lord. And I feel like the church must understand once again End Time eschatology. We must be students, we must understand the signs, the seasons, the hour that we’re living in so that we can live an urgent life. And when we have that understanding of sense of urgency our hearts, our lives, are completely given to the Lord. I feel that there’s a greater surrender as a result of understanding the hour that we’re living in.

SID: Okay. But then the most terrifying thing that ever happened to Carlos happened to him in Heaven. What happened?

CARLOS: What happened is they went from discussing about the urgency of the hour, they went from discussing about the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the greatest miracles, not all gloom and doom, there’s great hope. But then the hope culminates in this incredible manifestation that I believe the Spirit of God is doing right now, and that is this. I heard the Father say to Jesus, “It’s time, Son, go get your bride.”

SID: What did that mean to you?

CARLOS: At first, I was shocked and stunned. But I had this doubt and this understanding, and revelation that I as part of the Church of Christ, in that moment, I was not prepared and I was not ready to really see him come back. Even though we may have the right confession, we may have the right lingo, we may say the right words, but in reality for the most part, many of us in the church, including myself at that time, I was not ready, was not prepared. And so when those words came out of the Father to the Son, I remember this, it was the most horrible fear. I call it the terror of the Lord, the most horrible fear and terror that I had ever felt. It was like those words rolled out of his mouth like a ball, a ball of fire. And I remember those words just rolling towards me, and I knew it was going to hit my midsection. And when it hit my body, I remember trembling violently and I couldn’t contain myself, and I felt that these words, something was going to come out my mouth. I tried to hold myself back and I couldn’t. I remember yelling out loud and feeling the condition of my heart when I cried out, “No! We’re not ready!” That’s what I did. I raised my fists.

SID: You weren’t even thinking this. It came out from your innermost, this man is not ready. What about us? I’ll tell you what. He was downloaded from Heaven how to be ready. Now when he says “ready”, he doesn’t mean repenting of sins. He repented of his sins. He doesn’t mean having the Messiah live inside of him. The Messiah lives inside of him. When he said, “I’m not ready,” he meant, “I am not prepared to be involved in the next, in the greatest and perhaps the last move of the presence of God, of the mercy of God on Planet Earth.” And he was commissioned on what he had to do to be ready and what you have to do to be ready. By the way, I heard something about you. Someone has pain in their neck and their back, and I tell you, in the Messiah of Israel’s name, if you have a pain in your neck, move your head. You’ll see the pain is gone. Or stand up and bend over, you’ll see the pain is gone. And I’m going to be right back and tell you how you will not miss the moment of your visitation.

Sid: I want everyone everywhere to be red-hot for the Messiah. And what is red-hot?  Well just listen to this Jewish man and Sid Roth and this former Muslim man Akef Tayem. And Akef was born in Haifa, Israel. He’s a Palestinian Arab; he had an encounter that he could never deny with Jesus. He literally was taken up to the 3^rd heaven and when Jesus touched his right hand it burned with a fire to the point that when he started sharing his testimony literally the first time a man got out of a wheelchair and started walking. Akef you don’t know me to well, I hope that we get to know each other better but I love for God to perform miracles to demonstrate His power. Please tell me one more miracle you saw when you prayed for someone back then.

Akef:  Well the 3 churches, The Assembly of God, Church of God, and the Baptist Church I asked them if they would help me set up a little tent and they…

Sid: This is what you were making fun of with that Christian girl and you’re doing it now.

Akef:  I know and isn’t that amazing.  (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing)

Akef:  So they did they got together and they got me a little tent and I was having a meeting in it. And of course a lot of things go on and I was more into my amazing, the healing was great. I mean it was fascinating but I was more amazed with what happened to your heart or somehow. And I was contemplating on that part. You know how God cleanses you because I felt new. I honestly… I see the expression “You must be born again.”  I honestly felt like a new person.  So during one of these services two ladies brought their mother, actually carrying her, helping her walk they dragged her in.  And they told me that she was given up for to die she said “The doctors let her out of the hospital, she had cancer in her lungs that spread too far, lymph nodes.” I think she said something like that.  And they told her to just go to her home and it will be just a few days and she’ll pass away.  I started to pray, I still didn’t get this concept thing of healing I guess when I look back. Because when I started praying for the 2 sisters and not for the mother. Saying “Lord, be with the them help them when their mother passes away.  I said, and I would stop. And a voice inside said “No, no pray for her.”  I didn’t understand that, so the third time I just pray for her. And I told the lady “I don’t know but the Lord is telling me to pray for you.”  So I prayed for her and a few days later she came by and I couldn’t even recognize her because she was… there was no color in her face for one thing.  And now she had color, she was red, she had blood flowing through her.  She came with a manila envelope and she showed me x-rays from her doctor. And that cancer shrunk and it became the size of a dime.  And it remained the size of a dime, she was healed but I don’t understand it was like a scar.  I kept in touch with her for maybe 5, 6, 7 years and she told me that the scar is there but…

Sid: Did the cancer every come back?

Akef:   No, no, no.

Sid: Akef we have to go on now.  Every time I go to New York City, just about every time I get a taxi driver and he’s a Muslim and I start witnessing to him. And the first thing and when I start quoting the scriptures the Jewish scriptures the Torah or I start quoting the New Testament he says “Oh, it’s all mistranslated.”  And I can’t even have a discussion with him. What would you say if you were able to sit down and talk to a Muslim taxi driver and he was to say to you “I don’t want to look at the Old Testament, I don’t want to look at the New Testament it’s all been changed by the Jews and the Christians. What would you say to them?

Akef:  Well for one thing I would understand where he’s coming from.

Sid: Where is he coming from?

Akef:  Well we are taught that Sid; we are taught that as children growing up. I don’t even know at what age; it looks like I was born with this thought I don’t know. But this is instilled in us.  We grow up believing that the Torah, Old Testament, has been changed by the Jews. The New Testament has been changed by the Christians and that it is not reliable and we are to just stay away from it.

Sid: Are you allowed to read it?

Akef:  No, no there is no such thing as we are discouraged. We are discouraged to read; I mean it would be foolish if a Muslim saw another Muslim reading the Torah. It just doesn’t even happen.

Sid: Okay, I want you to talk to this Muslim taxi driver.  You talk to him one on one right now.

Akef: Well what I found out, and it’s very interesting, is that they Koran never says Mohammed and the Koran never says “That the Torah was altered or changed or corrupted.” And I was very fascinated, and intrigued and puzzled when I came across that in the Koran.  That nowhere does it say that the Torah has been corrupted, and I couldn’t understand how and why would I grow up and every Muslim grows up believing that the Torah should not be looked at, read, believed because it has been altered.

Sid: Did Mohammed say that the New Testament was altered?

Akef:  Well, the thing with the New Testament is different.  What it’s interesting is that Mohammed and his follower’s red the Torah and the gospel on several occasions that are referred to. They consulted the Torah and a matter of fact Mohammed tells the Jews and the Christians he tells them “You don’t have anything unless you do what is between your hands,” which is an Arabic idiom for the book that you have between your hands. He tells them in other words, “Unless you read and you do what the Bible says and what the scripture says you have nothing in you.” And so my concern was then “Where did this come from?”  What Mohammed says in the Koran is that the Jews misinterpreted falsely interpreted because Mohammed could not read Hebrew so he would ask the Jews to interpret to him.  One of his main things he wanted to know any prophecies foretelling his coming. Because he knew that Jesus was foretold. So he really believed that he was foretold also.  And that’s one of the things that he didn’t like about the Jews and he said “You changed what was in it.”

Sid: In other words he thought that the Torah would predict that Mohammed was going to come. And when he was trying to find things from the Jews he was upset with the Jews and the Torah because it didn’t talk about him.

Akef:  Well, no he…you’re right but he thought that the Jews were lying to him.

Sid: Oh, I see.

Akef:  The Torah was actually it does mention…

Sid: That’s how we came up with it because he couldn’t even read Hebrew.

Akef:  That’s right.  And the Muslim Apologetics and the Hadith clearly state that, and the Imam that I talk to you later on, that it clearly makes it very clear that nowhere in the Koran that Mohammed say that anything was altered. But it was misinterpreted.

Sid: That’s a big difference; that’s when you saw that what did you think?

Akef:  Well, well I was amazed; I was puzzled you know. Then to add to this frustration  I wanted to find out when or how were we convinced; so many Muslim’s growing up why are we so convinced. And I found out when the lie was perpetrated.  And there’s no other way to call it.  It happened after the death of Mohammed.

Sid: So Mohammed had nothing to do with this lie.

Akef:  No, Mohammed had nothing to do with it.

Sid: Who did it?

Akef:  It was Abu Bakr was the first Caliph which would be like the Pope is to the Christians. He is the Imam the leader after Mohammed.

Sid: So he was the first leader after Mohammed.

Akef:  That’s right he was he was Aisha’s father it was Mohammed’s neighbor’s wife..

Sid: So what was his motivation?  Why did he do that?

Akef:  Well, that is a long. You know a long story it would take while. But what I found out is that it was a deliberate attempt on his part to convince the early converts to Islam.  Not to refer to the Torah because here is what happened…

Sid: Oh, no stop right here we’re out of time!   

SID: I mean, what a devastating thing. A young boy, the one that’s been with him his whole life that he thinks is his father and he knew his natural father, but he didn’t know him as “father”. And his father brings him, in the basement and tells him the truth. How old were you?

JOHN: I figured about six.

SID: At six, what affect did it have on you?

JOHN: From that moment on I did not want to live with my mother and my stepfather. I wanted to be with my dad. And it brought in, it developed that spirit of loneliness was deep with me. I had, it was a supernatural spiritual loneliness. It brought a feeling of rejection in. It actually brought fear into me because I remember I was afraid he would try that again. And I never was, from that day on, I was never comfortable in the family. And it devastated me inside as a little six year old. And that was that problem. It broke my heart at six and it carried over when I came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

SID: Okay. You have the revelation that you have a broken heart. You now realize when it happened.

JOHN: Yes.

SID: You know exactly. What did you do about it?

JOHN: I cried out to the Lord to heal my heart. And Sid, it took me with the Lord about two or three weeks of prayer. And I can remember laying in bed at night with tears rolling down out of my eyes with this feeling of loneliness and emptiness, and it got to the point where I realized then that I know why a spouse will die like within a year after a spouse passes away.

SID: I’ve noticed that pattern.

JOHN: That loneliness, that’s what I actually felt. It felt like I was dying. That’s how severe it was. And then I cried out and I said, “Lord, if I die over this then I go to be with you, but I’m staying and I’m believing you’re going to heal my heart.” And literally, I could feel relief. It like came like that. It just came like up and out.

SID: It sounds easy, John.

JOHN: Well those two weeks, three weeks leading up to it, for me, was not easy. But the Lord delivered. I began a whole new man. That emergency brake feeling came off.

SID: But what about that fear, the loneliness, the loneliness you explained, the rejection, what about those things?

JOHN: I began to see how I operated in my life. One of the healing, one of the ministries of Jesus Christ is to open the eyes of the blind. And all of a sudden I began to see like now that my heart was healed actions that I did to protect that heart, and also the way I interacted with people with the fear of rejection and not wanting to be rejected, and things I said, and things. There was a whole complete revelation and I began to confess it to the Lord and say, “Lord, I’m not living with fear anymore.” I didn’t even know it was there.

SID: I heard a man once say, God never sets you free of your friends. He sets you free of your enemies. And he had no idea there was an enemy called fear. But this is the amazing thing. Once the heart is restored then these other critters that are enemies, they literally have to go.

JOHN: That’s right.

SID: It’s so wonderful. But tell me when the Bible talks about the ministry of Jesus was to restore the broken hearted, what does the word “broken” mean in Hebrew?

JOHN: That’s a real good question. And it’s actually Hebrew and Greek really mean the same thing. It means a violent shattering. There’s the word “violent”. And it’s like you have like this glass here and I took it and I just didn’t drop it, but I threw it down on the ground.

SID: There would be no way to restore that.

JOHN: It splinters apart and that is what the Bible describes as a broken heart. And Sid, there is nothing human on this earth that can heal a broken heart. It can only be, it’s supernatural, it can only be healed by Jesus Christ. That’s his ministry.

SID: Tell me about the woman with ulcerated colitis.

JOHN: Well what happened, Sid, is when my heart was healed, all of a sudden I would come in contact with people and in my mind I would hear, I would look at you for example and I’d hear “broken hearted, broken hearted”. And I would go up to you very politely, I just didn’t yell at you. I’d say, “Excuse me, but I believe the Lord is telling me you have a broken heart.” And people would start crying and it was amazing. The Lord is putting people across my path who need to be ministered to. So this ministry started to develop, just happened when I’d see instant results. Sometimes the results would take a while, but instant results. And this one woman had a powerful spirit of rejection. It happened when she was about five or six years old, just like you mentioned, rejected by kids, and all her life this rejection just continued. She had two husbands that left her and they liked divorced her on a Friday, and then married another woman on a Monday. And that, she was just, she had like a self-hatred of herself. And when I ministered to her about the broken heart it was very hard for her to receive that God loved her because of her broken heart. Even though she believed in the Lord, I know that this sounds weird, but that’s what happens with a broken heart. Jesus was her savior. But the reality of calling God, Abba Father, she couldn’t do it. She said, “I can’t do it.” It took a couple prayer sessions. And she had ulcerated colitis, where about four or five years, she was in the final stage of it. I mean, it was critical. She was anemic, bleeding severely. Finally, she broke through with Abba Father, her heart was healed and at that point my ministry, now what I do is if someone has physical issues, when I pray with them for a broken heart, we also pray for the physical issue. Because a lot of times the physical issue is caused by the broken heart, the fear and anxiety, and tension. So we prayed and her ulcerated intestines were healed right there on the spot.

SID: Once the heart is healed, the emotions get healed. The physical body gets healed.

JOHN: Yes.

SID: John has even gone into mental institutions in hopeless cases. One of the most hopeless cases they had in a mental institution was her heart was healed, she was healed. But I’ll tell you what, I want you to pray a supernatural prayer with John, because this is what he found out. The gift is growing. The same thing happened with me. I started laying hands on people and they got physically healed. Then I started speaking it, not even laying hands, and they got just as healed. I’ll have him pray for you when we come back.

Sid:  On yesterday’s broadcast I was speaking to my good friend Jonathan Bernis.  You’re familiar with him perhaps you’ve seen him on television “Jewish Voice with Jonathan Bernis.” We were talking about when… how many years ago was that we used to pray in tongues and supernatural languages Jonathan?

Jonathan:  Sid we’re coming up on 30 years; it was 1984, 85, 86 so…

Sid: So we used to get together for days of prayer and fasting and praying in tongues.  And you started doing things that frankly you didn’t understand and I didn’t understand.  As we got deeper into praying in tongues you started travailing like a woman in childbirth and we didn’t even know what was going on. But when you pray in supernatural languages you are prophesying your future.  And by the way the devil doesn’t have a clue.  And I’m reminded of another experience Jonathan we had.  We both went to a camp meeting with Kenneth Hagin, and he called us forward and he prophesied over me in English.  And then he prophesied over you but what happened to you when he started to prophesy?

Jonathan: Well the power of God came all over me and He began to speak in other tongues, in other languages.  I believe that he was prophesying directly to my spirit.  And it could have been about the call to Russia; the Jewish people in Russia in the Soviet Union.  But I knew that something was going on it was bypassing my mind. Frankly Sid maybe what he was saying if I had processed it with my mind I would have been in unbelief but because it came out in other tongues it went directly into my spirit and released faith.

Sid: But I found it interesting; he did that because he did not want the devil to even hear this word.  I’m convinced of that and the presence of God I mean you were out; you didn’t even… I had to tell you what happened because you didn’t even know what was going on.

Jonathan: I know.

Sid: And actually, I’ll tell you when it was; it was January 26, 1995. Let me read to you and mine was in English.  And this is what he prophesied over me.  “Earnest sincere desires, hungry in your spirit will be satisfied.  Fulness, fulness, fulness ability imparted on to you.”  And then he began to laugh (Ha, ha, ha, ha) “Stand the test, win the battle, do the work, great work.  Many will be gathered, many, many, many, many.”  And you know what?  I have found since that point when he started doing (Ha, ha, ha, ha) that when I pray in supernatural languages when the prayer has gotten to heaven and it really has gotten through I start speaking ha, ha, ha, ha.  And I know that I’m laughing at the devil you don’t have a clue of what I’m saying Mr. devil you must be going mashuga, you must be going crazy. (Laughing)

Jonathan:  That’s right and I begin to laugh hysterically sometimes when something’s been broken in the spirit.  And then it materializes in the flesh; it’s an amazing thing.  First in the spirit and then in the natural.

Sid: And you had to raise ridiculous sums of money to bring all the people from the United States to the former Soviet Union and do these big Jewish concerts and dance festivals and outreaches.  I’m convinced again you were even prophesying the money that would come in for it. And you had it come in in a very supernatural fashion.

Jonathan: Absolutely true and I’m sure that that was the case.  Sid when we had our first outreach.  You remember that big beautiful hall like the Carnegie Hall of St. Petersburg?  When I rented that hall I had no money; no money at all.  No money for the hall rental, no money for the advertising, no money for the plan tickets, no money for the hotel, no money for the sound and lights; nothing, nada.  And through prayer, and I belive much of it supernatural and other tongues, I got a call from someone that I’d never met that ended up paying for 80% of the entire event.  One person; never met him and he heard about me and called me right before I left for Russia.

Sid: But I got to impress on those that we’re mentoring right now if you and I some 30 years ago did not spend days praying and fasting and speaking in supernatural languages I don’t believe these things would have happened.  I mean when I walk around It’s Supernatural Ministry and I realize that we have state of the art and the buildings all paid for and we’re all over the world and we’re going now into the Spanish language and we’re in the Russian language all over the former Soviet Union.  And we’re in the Farsi language and I say “Who could possibly have believed that?”  But Jonathan you said that there was a second key in addition to speaking in tongues that triggered your faith.  What was that?

Jonathan:  Sid let me just say this “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.”  And I don’t think that anything of lasting value; I’m talking about that which remains after the wood, hay, and stubble is burned away happens any other way than through faith.  Unless the Lord build the house those who labor labor in vane; and that is built through faith.  The second way that we can build faith and hear from God and release things prophetically and see creative miracles is through the word of God.  Confession of the Word of God Roman’s 1:17 tells us that “Faith comes from hearing and that hearing by the word of God.”  Now that verse has the hearing twice in it.  And that’s not by accident; I don’t want people to miss this.  There’s two kinds of hearing everyone; there’s hearing with the natural ear and there’s hearing secondly with the ear of the Spirit.  And the gateway to the ear of the Spirit is the natural ear; we confess the word of God; we confess the word of God; and eventually we hear it with the inner ear of our spirit. And when it gets into our spirit it releases faith; faith is built up. And when we confess it again it’s creative it has force.  And it becomes what we decree drops into the natural realm when we see it come to pass.

Sid: Let me read a prophesy from Malachi chapter 3 verse 16 & 17.  It blew me out of the water when I read this the other day.  “Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another and the Lord listened and heard them. So a book of remembrance was written before him; for those who fear the Lord and who mediate on His Name they shall be Mine.”  There’s that meditating again.

Jonathan: Yeah, that mediate; that word mediation is different than the Christian concept of meditation.  The Christian concept of meditation is to reflect with the mind.  But the Hebrew which is Haga and that should be familiar to Jewish people listening we have the Haggadah which is to tell the story of Passover. It’s to confess; it’s to confess; it’s to groan; it’s to sigh to mutter; to speak forth.  And when God exhorted Joshua to be strong and to take the land.  He said “To mediate confess; speak forth on my word day and night and if you do that you’ll be successful and you’ll take the land.”

Sid: Now, let’s go to this beautiful coffee table book “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures with a CD inside and it’s called “The Lord is Peace.”  Take me through this.

Jonathan:  Okay Sid this is a work book that’s what I call these; these series on confessing the Hebrew workbook.  It is a beautiful bound book that would be a great coffee table book; with beautiful restful pictures.  And so on the back there’s a CD; you put the CD in and you begin to follow along in the English and then the Hebrew. And then I employ a technique a system I learned growing up in synagogue called “Transliteration.”  Very few Jewish people can actually read Hebrew anymore so our prayer books have this transliteration which is phonetically sounding out the Hebrew in English so we can read along and be part of the prayers in the synagogue.  Well I’ve employed that method to this workbook; so without any study; without any knowledge of Hebrew in 5 minutes you can be confessing scriptures related to this name of God, Jehovah Shalom, or Adonai Shalom.  Peace, rest, breaking through anxiety, fear and so on.  And you’re actually confessing the word of God in the Hebrew language along with a Hebrew speaker on the CD with beautiful music in the background.  And Sid by doing that you’re speaking in the tongue of the prophets; scriptures that directly combat anxiety, fear, tension, depression.  And the word shalom is related to completion, the wholeness and it actually drops into your spirit eventually.  You’re building faith, it actually changes you; I promise anyone that will actually put this to work will be changed in a week.

Sid: This is brand new but you’ve had a similar one out on healing; but you know what this combines both of them because as you explained the word shalom completeness. Complete in your spirit, in your soul and in your body.  So every area of life and this day and age we’re living in many feel as the Orthodox Jews do that we’re in the footsteps of Messiah.  And everything that can shake is going to be shaken and if you have built into your spirit the shalom, the completeness of God no weapon formed against you can prosper.  But what types of feedback did you get when you did this several years ago?  What types of healings and testimonies did you get?

Jonathan:  Well, we had some great testimonies Sid; we had people that were completely delivered; supernaturally delivered.  I had a very touching letter from a pastor who actually heard about this resource on your program and they ordered the workbook “Jehovah Rophek, the Lord our healer.”  And he gave it to a woman in his church who was dying of Leukemia and she began to play it.  In fact the doctors gave her 10 to 12 days to live. He gave her the CD and the workbook, she listened to it continually; she confessed these scriptures and she was completely healed.  The doctors declared that she was completely healed that she didn’t even have Leukemia cells in her body at all.  And then her body began to produce blood cells again.  And she has lived to declare the works of the Lord; amazing testimony it’s just one of many that we’ve received through people that have received this and put it to work in their life.

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah.  As a matter of fact, I can’t understand why everyone is not red hot for the Messiah.  Do you know red hot is normal? Lukewarm, you get vomited out of God’s mouth according to the book of Revelation, and cold I don’t have to define that you know what cold is.  So red hot is normal and if you’re not normal then you’ve turned into the right station at the right time because I’ve got a man that’s also like me; he’s red hot.  You’ve heard of the organization he started Promise Keepers. His name is Coach Bill McCartney.  Many of you know him because of his supernatural, and I do say supernatural coaching career.  On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that when he was a Coach at the University of Colorado he did okay but nothing special. His Pastor comes walking up to him and he said “He had a dream about him and that he’d be Coach of the Year and that he’d have a golden year.”  Coach just for those that didn’t hear it yesterday or those that need to hear it again tell me again what the Headlines said and what the year was like in Colorado after that prophecy.

Coach:  Well Pastor James Rowel told me that we’re going to have a Golden Season and that I would be the National Coach of the Year.  Then we played our first game on national television against the University of Texas.  And the next day in the Denver Post right across the Front Page it said “Buff’s” short for Buffalos; we were the Colorado Golden Buffalos.  It said “Buff’s Debut Golden Season.”  That was a shocking headline because you don’t win 1 game and have somebody say you’re having a Golden Season, and you don’t make 1 game and make the front page.  But what happened was we won all 11 games; we ranked number 1 at the end of the regular season.  I was selected the National Coach of the year and truly we had a Golden Season.

Sid:  Coach, tell me about the time someone yelled to you during a football game “Where is your God now?”

Coach:  It was years later when I took a team back to Ann Arbor to play the University of Michigan. Prior to the game the Lord had showed me during the summer in July that a passage in scripture Promise Keepers had exploded on the scene we were filling stadiums.  And in the second chapter of Haggai the 2^nd verse it says “You will shake the nations.”  When I mediated on that verse I really understood at that time that God was going to shake the nations with this ministry Promise Keepers this men’s ministry.  Then a little further down in the 2^nd chapter in the 18^th verse it says on the 9^th month on the 24^th day I will bless you.  And I looked on the calendar I did what you would do if you were a football coach; I looked to see if on the 9^th month on the 24^th day if we had a game.  And low and behold we were going to play the University of Michigan where 13 years ago I had come and really I had come in a prophetic sense and when God had kind of moved me to Colorado.   So I asked the Lord even though on the Jewish calendar on the 9^th month and the 24^th day isn’t September the 24^th still I asked the Lord “Can I receive that, are you going to bless me?” And the Lord affirmed to me that He was going to bless me on that day.  Sure enough we’re playing Michigan and we get there I got to tell you this piece to the story.  When we get there it is Friday and in the Ann Arbor news it had my picture on the sports page that wouldn’t be unusual both teams were undefeated this was a nationally televised game.  This was a big game by any stretch of the imagination. So below my picture though it says Matthew 7:24 it says “This man built his house on rock.”  For those of you that aren’t familiar with the verse it says “Whoever hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who builds his house on rock; whoever hears these words of mine and doesn’t do them is like a foolish man that builds his house on sand.”  Then it says, “Storms are coming everyone is promised storms but the one who builds his house on rock his house ill endure.”  So anyway you know it’s this picture of me and it’s this picture verse and trust me the Ann Arbor News doesn’t quote scripture on the sports page.  And so this was highly unusual well, the next day we’re playing; we’re trailing late in the game and we’ve got time for one more play and people are familiar with football may remember this situation and we were on our own 33 yard-line time for one play left and a guy stood up in the stands, there’s 107,000 people at the game, and at this time there was just a little bit of a lull in the action so the stadium had quieted just momentarily waiting for them to move the yard sticks. This guy just bellowed out loud enough for 1000’s of people to hear. He says “McCartney where is your God now?”  Well on the next play we completed a pass a deflected pass that went for a touchdown, we won the game it was called the play of the year in college football

Sid: You knew that you were going to win though.

Coach:  My God showed up.

Sid: (Laughing) You’d be in big trouble if you God did not show up!

Coach:  That’s right your God’s got to show up.

Sid: You and I are talking about other things before this broadcast and you keep saying to me is “All I want is God to show up.”

Coach:  Amen.

Sid:  You know that’s all I want and that’s all everyone that’s listening that’s all you need you don’t need anything else.  And in our peanut brains we try to figure out and we try to calculate and we try to plan, and the truth of the matter is that scripture that you said yesterday “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not in your own understanding and acknowledge Him in all of your ways and He will direct your path.”

Coach:   You know I’m wanting to come really close; I mean I want to be fully intimate.  I want all that He has for me; I want to be filled with His Spirit.  I don’t want to chase my tail; I don’t want to squander my days. I don’t want to just be a guy who knew the Lord; I want to be a guy who serves the Lord.

Sid: Give me some advice; I think any true Christian wants what you said but the flesh, the devil, other things they’re strong forces coach.

Coach:  Here’s what I would say; I would say “Take God at His word; go after Him pursue Him.”  The Bible says “Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.”  And so you get up in the morning and you get up early enough to have a time with Him and then you pursue Him.  And whether you think He showed up that day or not you just keep pursuing Him. Day after day after day you know what you’re going to discover that He’s going to wrap His arms around you; He’s going to breathe on you; He’s going to fill you with His Holy Spirit.  He promises to do that because scriptures says in Matthew 5:6 it says “Blessed is he who hungers and thirst for righteousness for he shall be filled.”  In other words if you hunger and thirst to be right with God if you have to have Him at all costs and you pursue Him like that.  See Jeremiah 13 says “You shall seek Me and you shall find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.”  God’s not looking for a part-time believer as Sid has said that is red hot.  Now God may test you; you may go two weeks, God wants to be sure that you’re not going to turn back.  Then He’s going to fill you with His Spirit and when He fills you with His Spirit it’s just a whole new way to live and die.  It is the abundant life; now you take Him everywhere you go everything you’re involved in. Whether it’s coaching football, whether it’s men’s ministry or whether it’s being a good husband or father; whatever it is you take Him with you.

Sid: You know Coach I just want to PS to something that you’re saying.  It doesn’t matter whether you feel like it; it doesn’t matter whether you say “Well, I don’t know if my hearts want You as much as my mind says, but I’m going to go after you with as an act of my will God because I really want to make contact with you.  I really need to have intimacy with you.” God can’t resist that can He coach?

Coach:  He’s a rewarder of those that who diligently seek Him; but you must believe that He is God.  And so you got to go after Him and take Him at His word until He shows up.

Sid: Well, we did it again we’re just about out of time… very few people know about the origins of Christianity, the Jewish roots of Christianity.  Very few Christians understand where traditional Judaism went astray; very few Christians understand areas where traditional Christianity went astray.  Before Jesus returns, I have it on good authority the Word of God there will be the glorious church; the glorious congregations.  Do you know why it will be the glorious church? Because it will be filled with manifest presence of God.  Someone will not have to lay hands on you in this glorious church you’ll just have to walk into the cloud; that same cloud that Moses walked in.  Did you know that Moses lived 120 years of age? He had a secret of youth; he just spent a lot of time in the glory; that’s what Coach McCartney is talking about.  You don’t get old in that glory… I believe the greatest move on planet earth of God’s Spirit where more souls are going to come in.  But the truth of the matter is God wants to use you; God wants to use everyone but most people will miss this move because there looking for God in a different way.  I don’t know exactly how the move will be but I know some of the ingredients…

Sid: I am so excited about introducing a friend of mine to you that’s been on our broadcast previously; he’s been on our television show – Dr. Howard Morgan. Dr. Morgan has a book called “Leaves from the Olive Tree.” I’ll tell you something, he has gleaned insights into the One New Man, or the One New Race that I wish I had put in my book which I didn’t.  You know what, I wasn’t supposed to put it in my book. The reason I wasn’t supposed to put it in my book is each of us receives a little bit different revelation, and when we put it all together we get the complete thing. He has brought, literally, this book is an anthology of kingdom perspectives. What do I mean by that? Let me read a little bit. He says “When the church departed from its Jewish roots and embraced non-Biblical concepts and theologies, Satan was able to infect the church with numerous,” whoa this is heavy, “doctrines of demons.” Have you wondered why you read the Bible; you know what the church is supposed to be like; you know about the power that’s supposed to be there; you know about the love that supposed to be there. The truth of the matter is in many instances there’s not a great deal of difference between those who call themselves Christians, and people that are non-Christians that are very moral people. There’s as many divorces in the church as outside of the church. There’s as many people addicted to pornography in the church as outside the church.  There’s got to be a change, there’s got be something different. Have we really deviated? I guess I put so much out there right now, I’m going to do something I was debating whether I should do it or not. My guest Dr. Howard Morgan told me he recently had a revelation from God about Christianity. At first I said “I can’t let him say this on my show.” Second, I said “I got to let him say this on my show.” Howie would you tell me this revelation.

Dr. Morgan: Thanks, first Sid it is great to be with you. I just want to honor the Lord by saying how much your ministry has meant to me, and how honored I am to be on your show and see all the work that the Lord is doing through your ministry.

Sid: Well thank you so much, but I’ll tell you what I am so excited to just sit down and brainstorm with you, another Jewish man that understands there is something more and is not going to settle for mediocrity or “religion.”

Dr. Morgan: Amen, amen, amen. We’ve had a passion for the kingdom of God since we’ve had our supernatural encounters with the Lord Jesus in the early 70’s. In answer to your question about this revelation, oh several years ago I was in my car driving through the states in my traveling ministry and came through the part of the town where all of the churches were zoned together so you had all the church buildings in one area. As I was driving through I felt the Holy Spirit speak to me and said “These people are practicing an aberrant religion.” Now I knew it was the Lord Sid because the word “aberrant” was not part of my vocabulary; I didn’t know what the word meant. So I pulled my car over and pulled out a little electronic dictionary that I have because every now and again the Lord does that to me to let me know it is Him and not me. I typed into the dictionary aberrant and of course I spelled it wrong and it came up and it said “Do you mean this word?”  Aberrant is that which has moved away from the pattern; that which has diverged from the original intention. When I saw that word and I heard in my spirit, God was saying “These people are practicing a religion that has moved away from the original pattern, that apostolic and prophetic pattern of love, and power, and anointing, and freedom… all the things that we see in the book of Acts, and we read about in times of revival and restoration in the body of Christ. Many times when we’re preaching about revival and talking about revival I say to people “I don’t think that we should use the word revival, I think we should use the word normal because we should be praying for normal.” So many times when there is revival breaking out that’s what should be going on all the time…

Sid: And it should not be happening in the 4 walls, if anything it should be happening outside of the 4 walls of the church.

Dr. Morgan: Well and that’s another thing most people fail to understand is that the church is not the building. Another revelation, if you will or insight the Lord gave me, as we were talking one day to some church elders in New York City. Talking about this whole dynamic of aberrancy and what does it mean and how does it affect us? What God wants to do in His body, I saw a picture of a church, a classic country church you know with a pitched roof and a steeple. As I was looking in my spirit I saw this building and all of a sudden it split from top to bottom, it split in half. From the base of this split this enormous tree emerged, and I heard in my spirit the Lord say “I’m going to deliver to the body of Christ from the spirit of the Christian religion.” When He spoke that to me it was like things started popping off that Christianity as it has been practiced, not the doctrines of our faith, but the way the religion we call Christianity has been practiced was… there was a spirit an actual demonic principality that had so influenced the church, the real body of Christ, that we practiced in so many ways the wrong things, done the wrong things, and wondered why we’re not getting the results; we’re seeing the fruit, we’re not seeing the gifts; we’re not seeing the demonstration of the kingdom that was so clearly promised to us by Jesus, and by Paul and we saw demonstrated. We’ve seen down through church history believers expressing the kingdom of God and literally change nations.

Sid: I know you’ve heard this expression, but the definition of insanity is to keep to doing the same thing and expect different results.

Dr. Morgan: Right, absolutely.

Sid: I have to go back to that word because I was not familiar with the word that you used. You said “That Christianity has become an aberrant religion.”

Dr. Morgan: Yes.

Sid: And the word aberrant means deviated from the pattern. So perhaps that’s where I’d like to start.

Dr. Morgan: Good.

Sid: Where did we deviate from the pattern, and what is the pattern?

Dr. Morgan: Well I think in simple, and I tried to ask the Lord to keep things simple because I’m not the smartest guy in the pack, and I’m always asking the Lord “Help me to understand this.” What He did was take me back to Colossians chapter 1 where Paul writes, and I believe this is his philosophy of ministry. That is what was he doing, and why was he doing it. He writes in the end of Colossians that he does everything he can by the wisdom and power of God to bring people to maturity in the Messiah. Everything the church is supposed to do, the environment that we’re supposed to be creating in our meetings is supposed to be conducive, that environment is supposed to be conducive for helping people grow. Instead, so much of what goes on in church can really be described as theatre, religious theatre, it’s a show. You know, I was in England ministering a few months ago and went to the Centennial celebration of the Liverpool Cathedral. The bishop in his talk about the mission of the cathedral, and the vision of the cathedral; he actually said that the cathedral was literally spiritual theatre that everything that goes on in the cathedral, and the way the architecture and its design from the high altar even out to the gargoyles, was all to represent the invisible realm in a visible way, it was theatre. I sat there Sid and my mouth was open because he was saying exactly what I have been hearing from the Holy Spirit. Instead of us experiencing the reality we’ve settled for something that was a ritual, or something that was simply an expression of what should be a reality. There was not the power so we had something that talked about power, or something that modeled it but it really didn’t demonstrate it.

Sid: Now you and I both have studied early church history and we know where we moved from the norm, but we literally went away from Jewish roots of the faith. We know that the church went away from the Jewish roots of the faith for very bad reasons…

Dr. Morgan: Right.

Sid: But they did, basically for anti-Semitic type reasons. What did they substitute instead of the Hebraic roots? Then let’s talk about what they should have kept.

Dr. Morgan: Right. When the church moved into the Greco-Roman world they began to be influenced by the philosophies of the Greeks and the Romans. Greek philosophy was very very seductive. The Jews were seduced if you will by Hellenistic philosophies you know in the times of the Maccabees. There were Hellenistic Jews that became very secular. They were brought into the web of deception of Greco-Roman philosophy…

Sid: Is that that religious spirit you’ve been talking about that’s so seductive?

Dr. Morgan: Yeah that spirit uses that because the devil… you know the devil will use any lie he can to move people even one degree away from the call of God. If you move just one degree away, if you believe one lie, that one lie, that one degree of separation from the truth of God, as you move on in your life that one degree takes you hundreds and hundreds of miles away from your appointed destiny. Like that letter “V” at the base of the “V” your right there doing what God wants, but one little lie, one even wrong thought starts taking you off on a path that diverges that becomes aberrant it moves away from the pattern. So when the church moved into the Greco-Roman world with power and signs and wonders, little by little, this stuff doesn’t happen in a day the philosophies of the Greeks and Romans began to influence the church. In a nutshell, the essence of platonic, if you will, our statillion philosophy is “That I think, therefore I am. Man is the measure of everything if it makes me feel good, if I like it it’s good.”

Sid: So they are the originators of what is called “Seeker Sensitive?”

Dr. Morgan: Yep, absolutely.

Sid: Versus God sensitive. Tell you what we’re out of time…

Sid:  My guest this week is a Jewish believer in Jesus her name is Sandy Teplinski she’s a Jewish Believer in the Messiah.  She’s an attorney and I’m speaking to her in her home in Anaheim, California and she’s just written a book called “Why Care About Israel.”  I would have to believe that the devil has done a masterful job of confusion using the press primarily.  And even Christians are totally confused on God’s plan for the nation Israel.  And I have to tell you as a child of God I want to know God’s plan and I want to be on God’s side and with all this confusion we need the facts.  Sandy most Christians don’t have a clue on the history of the Palestinian Israeli conflict.  Most Christians don’t even know where the name Palestine came from.  Most Christians don’t even know that the generation called Palestinians most of them never even lived in Israel they just came to Israel for jobs and even Arafat was an Egyptian; he wasn’t even a Palestinian.  See if we can make some sense out of this.  I know that if they read your book they’ll get it all clear but briefly tell, me a bit about the history of that land.

Sandra:  We really can’t understand Israel’s modern history Sid unless we go back to its biblical roots.  And the biblical roots of the conflict between Jews and Arabs.  And of course that’s going to take us all the way back to Abraham’s sons Isaac and Ishmael.  Ishmael as most of us know was the son of Abraham and Hagar who was an Egyptian.  And Ishmael grew up believing that he was the child of promise.  He grew up for 13 years believing that he was going to inherit God’s promises that He had made to Abraham.  Then on course Isaac does come along, Sarah does get miraculously pregnant at a very ripe old age. Isaac comes along and in Ishmael’s eyes he usurps all the promises that God had made to Abraham to be inherited to be inherited by his son.  The scriptures tell us that Ishmael began to resent and mock Isaac who he began to see as his rival.  Now we can understand… just to side track a bit we can all understand and relate to the sense of rejection and the pain that Ishmael must have gone through.  None the less he allowed that to fester into a bitterroot to the extent that he and his mother Hagar were eventually told by Abraham who heard from God to leave the household.  And so we eventually encounter Isaac and Ismael again when Abraham dies.  And we see that the two of them are standing shoulder to shoulder.  But there’s no evidence in scripture that they have reconciled their differences.  We revisit the conflict again when we see Esau and Jacob at odds with each other and again there’s a time of reconciliation between the two of them.   But none the less they still go their separate ways.  Now through the centuries, and of course not exclusively through Ishmael gave birth to many other sons through his second wife Keturah  and all of those people became collectively known in the scriptures as the Arab peoples.  And we see in the scriptures the Arabs pretty much continually at enmity with the Jewish people. And we read in the scriptures God’s wrath being roused against the Arab nations on account of their enmity towards Israel.  Now if we can fast forward several centuries you know and kind of fast forward past the Jewish exile, the exile from Israel. Which by the way not all Jews left Israel during the exile; there has always been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel proper through the centuries through the millennia. Let’s fast forward now to World War II okay let’s stop at World War I.  World War I the whole Middle East was ruled by the Ottoman Turks.  The Ottoman Turks sided with Germany in World War I and lost the war.  As a result of losing the war the league of nations, which was in essence the predecessor to the United Nations, divided up the whole Middle East and distributed portions of the land to different countries such as France and England.  And England the British Great Britain ended up with the mandate to hold Israel which was not yet called Israel it was called Palestine.  And I’ll get to that in a moment. To hold that land in trust to create the Jewish State.  The reason Israel was called Palestine is that Israel’s enemies, the Romans.  The Roman’s that were responsible for dispersing Israel out of the Land specifically named it Palestine in mocking remembrance of Israel’s ancient and extinct; and let me repeat extinct enemy the  Philistines.  It has nothing to do with the existence or the nonexistence of any so called Palestinian people ethnic group.  They’re has never been an independent polity by the name of Palestine that was self-ruled of governed by a Palestinian people.  Okay, back to where we were (Laughing).  The British issued a mandate called the Belfour Declaration after World War I which stated that Israel would be held; I’m sorry Palestine would be held in trust for the Jewish people and a Jewish state would be created out of it.  However due to Arab pressure at the very declaration of the Belfour Declaration and the fact that some pioneer Zionist were beginning to relocate to the land to redevelop it.  England ended up giving away unilaterally almost 80% of the land that the nations collectively through the league of nations had given to Great Britain to hold in trust for the Jewish people.  So we’re left now with approximately 20% of the amount of land that originally the nations allocated to Israel.  On that 20% sliver of land there are both Arab and Jews living.  During World War II Great Britain prevented many many more Jews that wanted to settle there from actually settling there. In the meantime there’s Zionist Jews there that are helping to build the land.  And they’re reclamation of the land is what brought other Arabs from surrounding nations to settle in Palestine.  Because with the reclamation of the land came a higher standard of living; hospitals, institutions that endured the Jewish portion of Palestine a more developed and  hospitable environment than any of the other Arab surrounding nations.  And so by the time Israel is declared a State in 1948 we have many many Jews living there of course.  And we have about 650,000 Arabs living within Israel proper.  Many if not most and by all reasonable documentation it is most of these Arabs have only very recently immigrated from other Arab countries attracted by better employment opportunities stemming from Jewish development of the land.  When Israel was declared a State Israel pleaded with the Arabs to stay and to live with them peaceably side by side.  However the Arab leaders; the Muslim leaders; the Arab leaders from surrounding nations, remember there are no Arab Palestinian leaders now because they don’t exist as an independent people there.  They just kind of nomads that have kind of wandered into Israel proper because of the opportunities the Jews gave them basically for a better life.  None the less these folks were told by the Arab leaders from outside that they should leave Israel; they should go camp out somewhere else because all the Arab nations surrounding Israel were going to run the Jewish State into the sea.  And before long and it was just a matter of days the whole of Israel would turn into just another Arab nation.  Well, as you and I and our listeners know that did not happen.  The Arab nations did not win what has since come to be known as Israel’s War of Independence.  In the meantime all of these other Arab refugees who fled their homes voluntarily at the behest of their Arab leaders not as the instruction of the new Israeli government found themselves camped out as refugees.  Now what’s critical to know is that the Israeli government began to negotiate for the full repatriations of all of these refugees.  Israel said “Okay, it’s enough we want you to come back; just come back go back to your homes and live peacefully with us.  However they could not find a negotiating partner.  And the reason; the primary reason that they could not find anyone to negotiate with among the  Palestinian refugees or the Arab nation is simply that the Arabs refused to negotiate with Israel is because to do so would have inherently acknowledged recognized existence or Israel’s right to exist as a State.  So the Arab’s consistently refused the right of return that was essentially offered to them back in 1949; beginning in 1949.   And so you know critical to all of this is that we need to understand that the Palestinian plight is not the cause of Arab enmity toward Israel it is a result of it.  Now having said all of this I need to say that Israel is not… I’m not accusing Israel committing of no sin whatsoever with respect to the Palestinians.  There were a few scattered isolated instances of radical Israeli soldiers that were kind of out of control and contrary to the instructions from their higher ups did unfairly and unreasonably…

Sid:  Sandy I have to stop right now we’re out of time.  Listen Mishpochah this is history; this isn’t fabrication this is history you must understand the history.  But even more important you must understand what God has to say in this situation. Because if you’re on the wrong side on this situation you’re on the wrong side with God.  Get the facts. Why care about Israel.

Sid:  My guest is red hot for the Messiah her name is Vickie Faurie.  I’m speaking to her at her home in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. I’ll tell ya that if you’d gone through the experience that she had as a 13 year old you’d be red hot for the Messiah too.  A year earlier just out of the blue her body started shutting down; her organs shut down.  She couldn’t eat; she went down to 52 pounds.  The Doctor said “Prepare for her death,” she only had a couple of weeks to live.  There was pain throughout her body; her body was deformed she couldn’t walk; she was totally crippled.  And she went to a Kathryn Kuhlman service and literally the fire of God hit her.  And she was not gradually, she was instantly healed.  She went and had a nice meal; she slept fine.  She not only could walk she ran; before that it was impossible her limbs were deformed.  And so she knows what miracles are.  And yet Vickie Faurie you told me off the air that you were backslidden.  How does someone go from that type of miracle to being backslidden?

Vickie: Well Sid when I received that miracle I was 13 and in between that time I was Baptist and I went to various Baptist churches sharing my message.  Of course the Baptist Church that I was in had to embrace it fully because they saw the before and after.   And a lot at that timeframe did not embrace it and so they didn’t believe it and so for while I did not share my message.  And then I proceeded onward; and I did become… I left the Baptist and I went Assembly of God. But I got mixed up just before I got married with the wrong crowd of people. I’ll tell you it whosever you dwell with and associate with that if you are not strong enough in the Lord they can sway you and I was not strong enough.  And they swayed me; rather than me swaying them they swayed me because I wasn’t anchored enough yet.  I didn’t understand things; I didn’t understand the death position.  I didn’t understand how to deny myself and take up my cross and follow Him.  And I knew I was healed; I knew about the power of God but yet at the same time I was being taught within the religious society that Jesus would accept me no matter what and all I’d have to do is go ask forgiveness and I’d be forgiven and I could do whatever I wanted.

Sid: How does this differ from the Word; share a few scriptures.

Vickie:  Well, the word declares; the one word that really struck out that hit me full force I’m going to share with you.  And it’s in Matthew 7 it’s Jesus speaking in 21.  “Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but only…’” and the Lord had me underline the word only; “Only he who does the will…and then He told me to underline he who does the will.  “Only he who does the will of My Father who is in Heaven.”  Because I was calling Him Lord and He stopped me one day  and He said “Do not call me Lord because I’m not your Lord.”  And I said “But Lord, I started naming things that I had done for His Kingdom.”  He said “You did nothing for you are nothing; I’d done all of those things and I can use a donkey.”  He said “I want you to know I only use yielded empty vessels.”

Sid: You know I’ve read these scriptures the same ones you’re quoting and everyone that’s a true believer has read these scriptures.

Vickie:  Hmm, hm.

Sid: And somehow because very few people are walking in such union with God; and that’s what the word is. So few Christians have died to self that you let it slide by.  I have a question for you “Are we waiting for God to change us or is God waiting on us?”

Vickie: He’s waiting on us.  God changes not; He’s the same yesterday today and forever.    It’s are we changing; we have to become the bride without spot wrinkle or blemish.  We have to be purified; sanctified; holy; totally yielded to Him.

Sid: I have to ask you this question; you understand this now you are not backslidden now.  Do you feel like you’ve sacrificed a lot by dying to self?  Do you feel like you’ve missed important things in your life by sacrificing to self?

Vickie:  No.  Really the death to self-position when you have the Holy Spirit and Jesus and everything within you it’s worth more than anything else in the world.  There’s nothing that can compare to when you die to self to know how much you love God; how sweet Jesus is, and the love of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  I mean all of that you can’t measure it.  If you were to take and put it and measure it it far outweighs the balances of anything the world itself has to offer.

Sid:  As best you can describe this Vickie “What is your understanding of dying to self?”

Vickie:  Total surrender of your will to the Father’s will.  Really it’s where you no longer; you submit yourself into the Makers hand. I mean it’s no longer you that is in control. You’re no longer telling the maker how to mold you; how to make you; how to form you; how to create you.

Sid: Your telling me that you’re going to be in a totally satisfied state ,whereas in the world in the natural, if you’re an alcoholic or a drug addict you have to keep getting stronger alcohol the stronger alcohol or stronger drugs to be satisfied.  But you’re saying you’re walking in such union with God that you’re totally satisfied.

Vickie: Yes, exactly and utter peace.  There’s a peace that passes literally your understanding.  There’s a deep peace and joy unspeakable.  I mean when Jesus said “he only came to say and do the will of the Father for a long time I couldn’t understand that scripture.  I couldn’t understand why Jesus came in the form of mankind.  I know He came to die for us but why; why, why did He come and live His life as man in total complete submission counting Himself as nothing?  He was showing us that if we would just submit to the Maker and do the will of the Father that is where everything… that is where everything flows.  There’s a river of peace as you lay yourself upon the altar of sacrifice and you sacrifice yourself and you give everything.  There’s a peace that just cannot be described.  There’s a love for all of all mankind and you love them with everything that’s within you.

Sid: And you know what you sound like?  I come from a Jewish background and you sound like you’re living what in Judaism is called the Sh’ma. It’s Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear Oh Israel the Lord our God; the Lord is One.  And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart; all your mind; all your strength.”  And then there’s another verse which Jesus couples with that when He was asked “How do you fulfill the law?”  Jesus said the Sh’ma and then He said “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”  And I’ll tell you candidly Vickie I have been praying that every day that I’d be able to walk in that because to me that’s the ultimate. That’s what Jesus said.

Vickie:  That’s right and all you have to do.  And so many times I would get up and I prayed one simple prayer for a long time and I said “Lord give me a heart like Your Son where I’ll walk according to Your will and I’ll love just like He loved”  unconditionally.

Sid: But did it hurt; did you suffer in a real bad way to get to this point?

Vickie:  I’ll be truthful with you Sid.

Sid: Please.

Vickie:  First it was very difficult and God told me “I’m going to strip you down to nothing.  If you want this it may cost you everything you have.”

Sid: Now I don’t want to get too personal but can you give me an example of what you lost.

Vickie: Well the enemy of course when you enter into this arena the principality powers and rulers of darkness are going to fight. I’m not going to let somebody believe that they’re not in for a battle.  But at the same time the victory is yours in Christ Jesus.  The cost of it in reference to certain things Satan tried to make us in a number of things make it look like we were going to be destroyed. That everything was going to be taken away.  And I would fervently stand and pray to God; the seeking Him in reference to a certain attack. If it were my children; if it was my youngest child or my oldest child or my daughter-in-law or even up until recently he even attacked my grandson.  I would pray fervently on their behalf.      

Sid: Who won?

Vickie:   God.

Sid: Okay we’re out of time Mishpochah…

Sid: You know it’s kind of difficult in 21^st Century America because the gospel has been so watered down just because the discipleship has been so watered down; that I just recently read Charisma Magazine and I saw an article in here that peaked my interest written by a man that I’ve interviewed previously.  The title of the article is “Why Isn’t the American Church Growing?”  The author, Kevin Turner president of Strategic World Impact.  He works in primarily 3 areas; war zones; disaster areas, and where Christians are being persecuted.  Kevin where am I speaking to you from right now?

Kevin:  Well, I’m calling you from Africa, the continent of Africa.  I’m right on the border of Sudan where we’ve been working now for actually here for almost 10 years, from this area the last 5 years.

Sid:  Now listen; I have a problem with the watered down discipleship; seeker sensitive Christianity in America.  If I have a problem I imagine you have a bigger problem; how did we get from the Book to what we have?

Kevin: Well, I think one of reasons is just simply the fact that people thought that by lowering the bar; lowering the bar of discipleship that we could possibly increase the numbers.  And it’s indicative of our society because when you talk to a pastor or anyone else, the church leader the first thing they want to tell them is how big their church is.  We’re not interested in quantity; I’m interested in quality.  And what I see all the time is we’re just fascinated with the showmanship of everything.  So to do that we have to have these secret sensitive churches that literally alienate and destroy the very foundations of the Word of God so that we can have these want-to-be disciples that truly have never been born again!

Sid: But you know what, I think many have been born again but they stay babies.

Kevin:  Well, all I know two things that are indicative of a baby; when that baby comes out of its mother’s womb 1: he’ll cry and 2: he longs for milk.  Peter said “As new born babes desire the sincere milk of the word.”  And I have hard time believing that we can call people that say that they are born again that they have no desire to be in fellowship; they have no desire for the word of God; they don’t cry out to the father or mother. See what I mean; they’re not crying to Father God saying “God touch me; fill me; cleanse me; purify me.”  So there are no signs other than this; we teach them how to be religious; we teach them how to pray; we bribe them to come to church; we pick them up and bring them there; we take them to lunch afterwards.  And really what we have is flesh born of flesh; it’s not spirit born of the Spirit.

Sid: In America it’s an unreal moment in history.  There has never been a country where the average person is as prosperous, almost lives not almost, lives like a king of former generations.  We basically don’t have any persecution.  Yes we had 911 but basically we’re like in a bubble.   I want you to tell me a bit about what’s going on in the rest of the world.

Kevin:  Well, first of all let me address the whole issue of persecution.  Scripture plainly states in Timothy that anyone who desires to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.  And unfortunately most American’s do nothing with that verse; it’s almost as if it were never written.  I believe that even in America you can live your life in such a red hot way; such a passionate way that you do receive persecution.  Now it may not be the same as Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, or Naro Trayo, or many of the countries that I’ve worked in but there’s alienation.  I think one of the big things I see is that we don’t want to see our good reputation.  We don’t want to be thought less of than what we think we’re worth.  But what I see around the world is the contrast to that.  I mean we’re baptizing Muslim converts who were fundamentalists.  That what baptism means to them is more than being buried with Christ in baptism and raised to walk in newness of life through the power of the Holy Spirit.  It means the threat of death, it means utter alienation from your family; it means that husbands can have their wives taken away.  It means their children can be taken away.  It means that Jesus becomes their all and all.

Sid: Let me read a short paragraph from your article “Why Isn’t the American Church Growing?”  A Chinese Christian recently visited the United States and toured churches here.  At the end of the trip he was asked what American spirituality?  He answered “I’m amazed at how much the church in America can accomplish without the Holy Spirit.”

Kevin:  Yeah; unfortunately that tends to be the case and I think…

Sid: That reminds me of a top Christian television personality that fell and ended up in prison and I went to visit him in prison.  And I talked about some of the large media ministries in the United States and I said “You know they’ve to be from God because look how big they are; look at how big they’re growing so much!”  And he looked at me and he almost laughed and he said “Listen, when you’ve got the gifting from God you can build any size organization that you want to and God doesn’t even have to be in it.”

Kevin:  That’s correct.

Sid:  It’s sad.

Kevin:  Unfortunately, you just hit a heartstring of mine because I believe that many of the ministers of America in my own heart believe me this thing lurks.  Where we literally have the potential to prostitute the graces of God.  In other words, God touches us His gifts and call are without repentance.  He desires through love to touch us that we might be used for His glory but what happens in the end  we’re building our own kingdoms we’re prostituting His graces and in the end we’re lifted up in pride, we come under the same condemnation as the devil and we’re pushed from His presence.  And I believe that part of the key to why America isn’t experiencing revival one of the reasons is that simply God can’t trust us with His Holy Spirit.  I remember one time I was praying and in fact I was asking the Lord about healing for certain people and I’m in the shower taking a shower and getting all cleaned.  And really basically what I’m doing is trying to get the Lord to use me to heal some people and I remember he spoke to me so gently and it cut me like a knife He said “Kevin would you want those people to be healed if nobody knew you were involved?”

Sid: Hmm; that nails you. (Laughing)

Kevin:  My heart was broken; you know what’s the sense of glory if you don’t get any of it right?  And this is the thing that can affect my heart; that can affect your heart.  The battle that I face as a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ isn’t failure; the battle I face is success.  I remember one time we were shipping supplies into Serbia.  They were under sanctions; they were under Resolution 724 with the UN and I had special clearance to ship in medical supplies and various things.  And I was billed as the wonder boy; boy if anyone could get it in Kevin could.  And I remember that my containers was sitting in Piraeus, Greece one of the largest shipping ports in the world. I’m supposed to get these things up to Serbia.  I had 2 weeks and I was going to travel through there and fly out of Budapest.  Well nothing was moving; I’m staying at this old Bible School as the top floor and again and again nothing moved day after day.  I spent over $24,000, I was personally in debt and literally each day here’s what I noticed my prayers at the end of the day got shorter and shorter.  And finally I came down crawled up those stairs; fell down on that creaky wooden floor just me and Jesus and I prayed one of the truest prayers I ever prayed in my life.  All I said was this “Why?”  The Lord spoke to me as clear as a bell, He said “Kevin you don’t want those containers in there for those people you want those containers in there so you look good.”  And this is what the Lord taught me and I pray to God I never forget.  He said “You know what Kevin, everybody wants to be My personal success story.”

Sid: Hm.

Kevin:    But nobody’s interested in being a failure for me.  And there on that floor all alone in Greece I had a good old fashion death, burial, and resurrection.  And before Jesus I saw my arrogance and my vanity and my pride.  And I cried out “From this day forward I resign myself to be content to be your personal failure.” And what I mean by that is not that God destroys everything around you it’s that your content not to look good.  It’s that you’re content to be faithful whether the world applauds you or not.  So success is the biggest danger that I have ever seen in my life.  So unfortunately, this corporate world mentality has consumed the average pastor because he’s sees a couple mega-churches on TV and they logged themselves as the next approach.  And the next thing you know every bodies lining up and your making these gospel puppet preachers who have no unction; no   anointing of the Holy Spirit because they’ve just looked at a program or a method.  But the Bible said “God calls a man.”  And this is what I see in my own heart and the nation; this is the thing that I see, and it breaks my heart.

Sid: Mishpochah I’m speaking to Kevin Turner President of Strategic World Impact.  He works in war zones and disaster areas or areas where Christians are being persecuted.  Knowing how he lays his life on the line; his family’s life on the line because they’re with him on the field.  And hearing how broken he is and how repetitive he is (Woe is me).  You know what Isaiah stood before the throne he says “Woe is me I’m undone; I’m an unclean man amongst an unclean people; I’ve seen the King.”