Sid Roth

SID: Katherine, that vision that God gave you of restoring your dignity and where you came from, this background of abuse, but then there was a bonus. The fire of God came on you. Tell me about that.

KATHERINE: I started reading stories, everything I could get my hands on, on miracles. I watched Katheryn Kuhlman. I’d read stories with Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, and I’d read about their experience of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire. And I think that ties in the Holy Spirit. When I was about 14 and had received the gift of tongues, as that’s what I expected. But you know, I wasn’t really at that stage expecting the fire of God. And I thought, when I read their stories about healing the sick, I thought, maybe I missed something. So I just got really hungry and I pressed Him, “Lord, I want you to baptize me with fire.” And I tell you, God began to do a work in me. For about nine months there would be many days I couldn’t get up off from the floor. I was groaning, having visions of what the Lord was going to do. And the call of God came on my life, and He began to work a deep process in me as His fire began to deal with the [unintelligible]. Well it’s been glorious though, because I know now that the power of God, He moves through me and He moves through everyone that would seek to look to him for fire for the power to God to be manifested.

SID: Tell me the first major miracle you can remember that happened when you prayed for someone.

KATHERINE: Well I had, someone had prophesied that I would see tumors disappear, on a Sunday service. And on a Monday, I was invited to speak at a ladies meeting. And I, at the end of the meeting, a lady came forward and she said, “Well I have a tumor. Could you please pray for me. That’s all I need.” She said, “I don’t fall down and I don’t speak in tongues, but can you pray for me.” And I said, “Sure.” And I went to pray for her and the Holy Spirit touched her, and she fell on the floor. You don’t have to fall on the floor, but some people just have weak wiring, I think, when it comes to the power of God and me, particularly. And while she was on the floor she said she felt the hand of God go into her belly four times. And when she got up, I went away overseas for a few weeks, I came back. They had done a battery of tests and I found out that prior to her coming to have prayer, she had an operation to try and remove a six-inch tumor wrapped around her pancreas, and she had cirrhosis of the liver, and the doctors had discovered that it was inoperable. So she came to the meeting in that state. But when she had gone back for all the tests, they discovered that there was no tumor. There was not a trace of cancer and she had a brand new liver.

SID: Now that is normal, normal as defined by the Bible. Now tell me, you mentor especially young kids. Are they doing similar things that you are?

KATHERINE: Oh, and greater things.

SID: Tell me one.

KATHERINE: They’ve seen the dead raise. We had a young man go into a local pharmacy just to get something and an elderly gentleman had a heart attack and died in the shop. And the Holy Spirit just said to this young man, he said, “What are you going to do about it?” So the paramedics had come and they were working on him, didn’t have a pulse. He wasn’t breathing. And so this young man just went and he laid his hand, got hold of his feet and just began to prophesy life and rebuke death, and prophesy life. And the man began to cough and came back to life. And the paramedic came to church that weekend to testify he had never seen anything like it.

SID: Now one of the keys that you talk about is you’re aware of how much needs you have. Normally, I hear people going around saying, “Oh, because of Jesus, I’m just self-sufficient at everything. I’ve got money, I’ve got health, I got family.” But need, being, recognizing your need is so important to capturing the heart of God.

KATHERINE: To me, it’s the key really, because it’s as we present our weakness, in our weakness He is strong. And the more that I can present to him, the more ashes I can bring, the more faith, the beauty I can receive by faith. If I bring my sin, He brings his forgiveness. If I bring my weakness and my fears, He brings the answer to all my needs. And the Bible says, “The Holy Spirit is our ever present help in time of need.” And I’ve discovered my time of need is all the time. I am so needy. I’m so needy for love. You know, I have a wonderful husband. We’ve been married 23 years. But there isn’t a man on the planet that could meet the need that I have. In fact, there isn’t anybody that can meet anybody’s love needs because we were created to need to the perfect love of God. And when we present that need to Him on a daily basis, the more we open, the more we need, the more we need Him, the more we receive. I remember having a vision once of a big jagged piece cut out of my life, and I was just complaining to God saying, Lord, I’m so needy. And I saw a picture of that same piece cut in exactly the same shape as my hole in my life come down and fit right down to the level of the deepest cut. And I believe every day if we present our need to God, He wants to fill us to overflowing.

SID: When we come back, tell me about the great miracle that happened with that prostitute. Don’t go away because I’m going to have her pray for you, too, and miracles are going to erupt.

Sid: The way you’re red hot for Jesus is everyone everywhere must know Jesus, and know means have intimacy with Him. But there are things that are stopping you from having the intimacy that your heart craves with God. And that’s why my guest Trish Frost, I have her new book “Unbound Breaking Free from Life Entanglements.” You know Trish the older I get the more sympathy for God. I think we humans are so messed up I mean the ministry that you have every Christian the minute they get saved should go through it.

Trisha:   Well I think so, I’m in agreement with you and the reason I feel like Christians everywhere should go through this is it helps you become unbound, it gets you unstuck. I don’t know about you Sid but I don’t think I’ve ever been anywhere I have not met people many people that they’re stuck in life and they don’t even know why. You know they don’t understand “Okay I’m repeating this behavior over and over and over again it’s causing conflict in my family, I don’t want the conflict in my family, I don’t want the conflict in my relationship with God or man, but here I am stuck. How do I understand how I get unstuck?”

Sid: You know the best way for them to understand what you teach is for them to understand you and your husband Jack who is now in heaven. Trish and Jack Frost have the most wonderful ministry, and I’ll use her words, to get people unstuck. Now in your case you were raised by a Christian family. Your father had a heart attack wasn’t able to make a living, so what areas were you stuck in?

Trisha: Well my father was a great man and we went from being a middle class family to a family that just barely had enough to get by. And even though he was a good man he provided food, clothes and shelter, as a child I judged him because I embraced a lie about him. And the lie that I embraced about my dad was that he’s a good man but your father will give you just enough to get by. And so that carried into my relationship with all men and especially God. You know that God is good and I know that I told everybody that I was born saved of course we know that that’s not true but I grew up in such a Christian home that I never knew a time in my life as a young person where God was not a part of my life. And so I began to see God the same way that I saw my earthly dad that he’s good but he’ll give you just enough to get by. So when people started telling me about faith and that you could trust God and that you could believe God for all of these things that wasn’t my reality. You know it might be truth but it wasn’t my reality because my judgment of God was He’ll give you just enough to get by, so I was stuck. I was one of those people that heard all of these wonderful things about the supernatural power and relationship of a loving God but it just wasn’t happening in my life. And so I was stuck, I was stuck in a lie in an ungodly belief and it kept me bound most of my young adult life.

Sid: And it seems to me the way that you were taught the word they gave you a King James Bible when you were just 5 years old and gave you a dictionary and said “Read it.” I’m amazed that you did that, but you must have been fairly legalistic too at that time.

Trisha: Well I grew up with a good background, again my family was Christian but we did come probably from a law based Christianity than a love based Christianity but we didn’t know any better. You know, I’m 60 years old now Sid and growing up in that kind of home over 50 something years ago it was just natural for me. But my mom she knew the importance of the word, she knew the importance of getting the word inside of us. But again 50 years ago there was no such thing if there were I didn’t have one as a Message Bible, as a Living Translation, as a Study Bible. Our family just couldn’t afford things like that and so what she could afford was a dictionary. Because I remember going to her and asking her “What does this mean, or what does this word mean?”

Sid: Okay, we’ve got a pretty good background of you, now let’s take your husband Jack. You made a statement about him and you said “He was the most wounded person you knew” that’s quite a statement.”

Trisha: Yeah, he was very wounded and if you remember anything about Jack’s background he grew up with alcoholic parents that he had to perform to have a place of value. So Jack grew up striving, striving for that place of value to where mom and dad would even notice him. And because they didn’t notice him being an alcoholics they didn’t even notice Jack, he was almost invisible. And his brother was the superstar or the tennis player. So Jack kind of grew up emotionally detached from people, no one showed him affection, no one showed him value or affirmed him so he grew up that way. And as an adult man when we got married and he had a family he began to treat us the same what that his family treated him because he didn’t know any different.

Sid: And you came from a background of low self-esteem, he came from a background of low self-esteem it’s a miracle you two stayed together.

Trisha: (Laughing) We used to say that all of the time.

Sid: (Laughing) But guess what the people that are listening to us right now they would say “Well it’s a miracle we stayed together.” But God had a plan, what is the major thing that got your husband’s attention that caused him to recognize he was stuck?

Trisha: Well I think the main thing was our oldest son and Jack’s relationship with our oldest son. I remember one day he kind of saw the look in Micah’s face when Micah just gave up, there’s no point in trying to cut the grass right, there’s no point in trying to do good in school because no matter how good I do even if it’s the best I can do it’s never enough to please dad. And so that look that Micah gave him that look of “Well I don’t have any value either in my dad’s eyes and I think that wounded Jack to the point that he just kind of set out on a journey. “Okay Father God I have never known intimacy with a Father, I don’t know where to start.” And of course he got saved first but even after his salvation Sid that didn’t change his behavior. You know he was a saved person but he was mean, he was still mean. So salvation didn’t change his behavior and it was in a pursuit that he constantly pursued intimacy with a loving Father. He never could find it until finally he went to a “Father Loves You Conference” in Toronto. And it was at that conference that this sweet fellow he was 5’6” his name was Jack Winter, prayed for 6’5” Jack Frost and he just asked him one question. He said “Jack has your father ever blessed you?” And Jack, my Jack had to say “No, I’ve never been blessed by my earthly dad.” And he didn’t know anything about a father’s blessing. And so Jack Winter stood for about 20 minutes just speaking life over Jack, just blessing him, just telling him all of the things that a father should say to a son. So when Jack came home from that conference, you know we had not gone with him to that conference. And when he came home from that conference I knew that it was real because he didn’t try to take it and teach it to at a church he was a conference speaker by that time. He brought it home and the first thing he did was he just changed. He went from being the aggressive striver Sid to the loving, kind father. We didn’t know how to handle this Jack we’d never seen this Jack. And it was out of that that he began to changed his relationship with Father God changed first. He stopped seeing God as that cop in the sky that’s out to get you no matter what you do your doomed. And he stopped seeing God that way and he began to see “Okay, I can have a relationship with God.” Really, you know, but something happened with the power of that blessing that got him unstuck to the point to where he began to relate lovingly and kindly first to me and then to the children. And it has gone around the world, I mean the message of one changed life has literally touched 100’s of 1000’s of other lives. And continues to this day even though he’s in heaven.

Sid: Everyone, I’m convinced, is entangled with some wrong thinking which then becomes a stronghold. And many times they don’t even know their thinking is wrong all they know is the way that they react. How do people get to the root of their wrong thinking? It’s easy to see what your wrong thinking was now. It’s easy to see what Jack’s wrong thinking was now. How do people listening to us get to the roots of their wrong thinking?

Trisha: Well I think they have to identify “What is the behavior?” In other words, “What am I doing that’s wounding other people?” And as for me I pray the word of God, you know Psalms 29:33. You know “Lord, search me, there’s got to be something inside of me that doesn’t want to do what I’m presently doing that’s hurting and wounding other people.” And so I began to trace that wound back to “Okay, where was the point that I was wounded, where did I give life to pain that has caused me to be stuck in childhood behavior or to be stuck in you know negative thinking?” And I believe…

Sid: I’ll tell you we’re out of time right now.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Nancy Alcorn, I’m speaking to her at her office in Nashville, Tennessee where she heads up Mercy Ministries. In particular we’re talking about her new book called “Mercy for Eating Disorders” because eating disorders are epidemic, things like binge eating, bulimia, and anorexia. It seems to be getting worse by the day, she’s come up with a wonderful program for young woman that are involved in these problems. In the secular arena they’re not even solving it and they’re charging $100,000 and the parents are sacrificially giving money. And the problem is that she has a big waiting list for her program so she’s written a book for those people… first of all Nancy I have to believe that people that are involved as anorexia, bulimia, binge eating, think that they’re stuck with it the rest of their life.

Nancy: Well that’s true and you know the word of God tells us “That in Christ we’re overcomers and we are more than conquerors.” So to believe anything less than that regardless of what the issue is addictions or whatever or even people with problems with pornography and through the power of Christ we can overcome any issue that we’re facing.

Sid: Now for those that are not that aware would you give just a brief definition of anorexia, bulimia, and binge eating.

Nancy: Well anorexia would be the simplistic definition, anorexia is basically when you starve yourself to where just literally your body is just wasting away.

Sid: And society tells us thin is in and so all these young kids see their favorite movie stars and they want to look just like them.

Nancy: That’s absolutely right and the media and advertising industry, movies and television and all of that plays into it. You know Vogue magazine, the fashion industry it all plays into it, even the cosmetic industry.

Sid: And so what is bulimia?

Nancy: Bulimia is when someone actually binge eats and actually just stuffs themselves and regurgitates the food and is able to go back and consume huge amounts of food again and just force vomiting and that type of thing. That’s what bulimia is, it’s when you force yourself to vomit to purge yourself of food so you can binge again.

Sid: Now let’s talk a little bit about you because you went through this. You were always weight conscience when you were younger. One night you were invited to eat at you pastors home.

Nancy: Yes.

Sid: What happened?

Nancy: Well it was when I was in college and it just so caught me off guard because I was totally committed to Christ and loved the Lord with all of my heart. And I was actually over there to clean their home and they invited me to come early and have dinner. And she fixed my favorite meal which was fried chicken and biscuits and gravy and green beans and all of that. And so I was really enjoying that and after they had a pastors meeting that they had to go to. So I was going to clean their house for them and clean up the dishes and everything. And so I started in on that process and I just felt really nauseated. So I remember trying to lay down for a few minutes and thinking “I’ve got to get over this nausea because I basically had eaten too much, I think.” And so I was trying to get over the nausea and I realized I’ve got to clean this house. And part of what ties in with eating disorders is perfection and I wanted to please, and people pleasing. I wanted to please them, I wanted the house to look perfect, I wanted the dishes to be done and I wanted it all to be done. So I thought “How am I going to get this done if I’m nauseated.” So I went into the bathroom and I thought and you know I was in that state if I were to just throw-up a little bit I’d feel better. And the process of just hanging over the toilet the thought came to my mind that I could just throw-up and then I could just get the house finished. And that’s basically what I did because I wanted…

Sid: No, let me interrupt you a minute, I don’t think the thought came into your mind, I think it was an enemy of yours that whispered that in your ear.

Nancy: Well it was.

Sid: It was a demon.

Nancy: It was definitely a demon, there’s no question. And the thing that I know was demonic about it is the thing that happened next, because that demon suggested you do the thing then you can clean the house. And once I did it then that demon said “You can do this anytime you want to and you can eat as much as you want to and for as long as you want to.” And I received that not recognizing that it was a demonic power speaking to me. I received that thought into myself and I conceived it in my heart at that point and it became a part of my life. That demonic power gained entry at that point though my choice, the suggestion was made through a demonic voice and I acted on that demonic voice. And because of that a stronghold developed and over the next 5 years of my life I struggled with shame and guilt and I hid.

Sid: How often were you purging the food?

Nancy: Because of my love for Christ I would go sometimes… I wasn’t like some people, some people use no only purge but they also use laxatives to purge. Some girls up to 150 laxatives a day where they even had to have surgery, part of their colon removed, it’s unbelievable. I never got into that part of it but because I loved the Lord I would go sometimes as long as 4 or 5 days or a week. It wasn’t an everyday occurrence for me, but there was a times that it was more frequent than others. But because I was trying and calling on the Name of the Lord and people didn’t talk about eating disorders back then and so I didn’t really understand what happened to me and I did not go to anybody for help I just kept going back to God. If I had a place like Mercy or if I had a book like the “Mercy for Eating Disorders” and people were talking about it back then like they are now then I could have gotten help.

Sid: What was the root of your problem because you mentioned “You got to deal with the root?”

Nancy: Well I think in my case the root of the problem was two-fold. I had a very volatile childhood growing up and some untimely deaths, one being my sister and my family through a very tragic set of circumstances. And there was just a lot of problems in my family growing up, and because of the deaths that were occurring I felt like that things were out of control a lot. So this is something that I felt like I could control, so I think that control was definitely an issue. And I also think that perfection was an issue, that I didn’t feel good about myself. I thought that if I had a really perfect figure and body that I would feel better about myself and people would respond to me because I look good.

Sid: Nancy in your book you state you went through 5 years of hell on earth. How were you set free?

Nancy: Well the bottom line is I just realized that I really do have a choice even though it didn’t seem like I did. And that through Christ I could overcome and I finally just made a decision. It was actually one New Year’s Eve that I just said “Lord… (I stayed at home and I prayed). I just said “Lord I will not do this anymore, I commit to you throughout the power that only you can give me I choose not to do this anymore, and I don’t care if I weigh 300 pounds.” And the interesting thing about it is that I just felt the Spirit of God just come to me.” And I believe at that moment that I received deliverance through calling upon the Name that is above every name. And from that point on I started exercising maybe 2 or 3 times a week, not excessively just about 3 times a week I would walk a couple of miles a day. You know that in a year’s time that I dropped from a size 10 to a size 4. And I have been a size 4 for the last 20 years, and what I was trying to accomplish by my own flesh or the last 25 years actually. What I was trying to accomplish by my own flesh I actually received from the Lord when I just chose the path of obedience.  

Sid: So there are 2 keys that I’m hearing, one is a choice. You either want to choose to relay completely on God, or you want to do such things as forcing yourself to vomit and many take their lives. And the other thing that was a key was you found a root cause in yourself and you could renew your mind in that area. You have a whole chapter in your book on these root causes. It’s very very important, I wonder if you could tell us some of them.

Nancy: Well I think that 2 of my root causes were definitely perfectionism and control. And that’s definitely for example when people have been abused in their childhood. That’s something they definitely can’t control and so this is something they can control. And it’s like “I’m going to control what goes in my body, what goes out. And I’m not going to let anyone hurt me again, that kind of stuff.” A distorted body image and then denial, I’ve actually stood with a girl that looked at herself in a mirror with very little clothing on and she was nothing more than a skeleton with skin on. She was 5’9 and weighed like about 60 pounds. And I said “Tell me what you see when you look in the mirror?” And she said “I see fat.” And it just shocked me and I said “Can I tell you what I the rest of us see when we look at you?” And it shocked her to hear that.

Sid: It shocks me to hear this story.

Nancy: Well it’s like a demonic distortion. It’s like Satan distorts what that young girl sees when she looks at herself. And that’s one of the root causes is a distorted body image and then a denial. And then also parents that may use food as a reward or punishment that a young person can grow up and tie that in with performance and perfectionism…

Sid: Now you’re hitting now, you’re getting a little too close to home right now Nancy. Because if you’re Jewish you know eat, I love you. That’s the definition of love. (Laughing)

Nancy: (Laughing) I think us Christians have that down too with all of our potlucks and everything. You know I really do and you know Jesus set an example he had the last supper with His disciples. And I do think that the key is that the Lord wants us to enjoy all things but He wants us to have food without food having us. And anything that brings us into bondage it’s not good, and so Satan he would have never gotten me after I committed my life to Christ I would have never chosen to get addicted to alcohol or drugs or anything like that. So he had to be sneakier with me and so this is the way that the enemy snuck up on me and got me in bondage to something that was the greatest bondage that I’ve ever experienced.

Sid: Nancy we’re out of time.

Sid: My guest is Katherine Ruonala. Katherine and her husband pastor a church in Brisbane, Australia. And Katherine I don’t believe it’s an accident Katherine that that’s your first name because as I read about you I think about another Katherine that I personally got to know, Katherine Kuhlman. Some mutual friends of ours have been saying that you’re really walking in that anointing. In fact you told me that you walk by people and they get healed, tell me one.

Katherine: Well that’s just last month I got a report when I was back in an area I had been in last year and a lady was so excited to tell me that she’s been in a meeting that as I walked past she felt a wind of the Spirit go through her and she was instantly healed. And you know I believe that we are meant to be carries of the Holy Spirit but Katherine Kuhlman is someone who’s been so important to me. To see the relationship she had with the Holy Spirit; I remember one night I was coming home from a meeting where God had done an amazing miracle, in fact many amazing miracles. And I felt a little bit intimidated thinking that I had another meeting tomorrow night and all of these people are going to bring all of their sick friends because they’d watched with their own eyes extraordinary things.

Sid: Tell me one miracle at that time that had occurred.

Katherine: Well that night one lady had had her eardrum cut out because of cancer had her hearing restored and cataracts had clouded a man’s eyes had instantly dissolved. And people were just so excited and I remember climbing the stairs to my room that night I was staying at the pastor’s home and thinking to myself “Oh, Lord I know I didn’t do that I hope you show up tomorrow night and do it again.” And as I was coming up the stairs I left my computer playing on shuffle and I heard one of Katherine Kuhlman’s heart to heart radio talks. And she was saying as I was thinking these things I heard her say “Every time I walk out on to the platform I die a thousand deaths.”

Sid: And I remember hearing her say that by the way, but go ahead.

Katherine: Knowing that people are coming and this is their last hope. And I thought to myself “Oh, I understand that pressure.” But it was so lovely to hear her continue she said “But I encourage myself that everything Jesus did on the earth He did as a man actually dependent on the Holy Spirit.” And then as I walked I to my room she said “The Holy Spirit never let her down.” And I heard her say “And the Holy Spirit will never let you down.” And I felt like I’d been kissed by God.

Sid: Hmm.

Katherine: The next night more deaf ears opened, more miracles happened; it was just such an encouragement from the Holy Spirit that we can actually depend on Him because He is utterly dependable. You can only fully know that as you get to know Him personally.

Sid: Now I talked to you a few days ago and you talked to me about a subject that I want you to discuss and that is humility and totally helpless without God.

Katherine: Oh yes you know I really believe this is the word of the Lord at the moment that God is really wanting to open up our eyes to see the depth of our need. Because I believe that it’s really when we understand our need for God that we will cry out and we’ll receive what He wants to give. I believe it’s to the level of your need that you’ll go to God to get what He wants to give. You know in the Book of Revelation it talks about a church that thinks of themselves as rich and having need of nothing. And we’re counseled to cry out to God to buy eyesalve and I think praying that even myself recently “Lord give me eyesalve to see the depth of my need.” I remember once being on an altar call and in the early days and just crying out to God saying “Lord, I feel like I have a big jagged cut in my life and nobody is able to fill my need for love.” And I was looking at the cut I saw a piece of heaven coming out shaped right down in exactly the same shape as the cut in my life. You know I believe God wants to fill us with the level of our deepest need; but unless we’re aware of our need for Him we are not going to go to Him and get what He wants to give us. He says He’s laid a banqueting table before us in the presence of our enemies but unless we actually recognize our need; unless we go to Him to let Him show us we are desperately needy, that we’re actually not rich and full and having need to nothing. We are desperately full of need then we miss out on the truth filling; we spend our money on what’s not actually bread like the scriptures says and yet God’s wanting us to exchange our weakness. Use that as currency, exchange our weakness so that we can receive His supernatural strength.

Sid: Well you know Katherine a lot of people look at the ministry that God’s entrusted to me and they think “Boy, he’s a sharp businessman; he’s brilliant; he’s got so much gifting. But guess what I know what you’ve been talking about; I am 100% dependent on God not just for a miracle to happen, that’s minor; for everything to happen. And the older I get the smarter I get, and when I say the smarter I get the reason I get so much is I realize I need God more. When I was younger I didn’t realize it I was stupid; now that I’m older I realize how much I need God in every relationship and everything that goes on in my life. And that’s what I see going on with you right now Katherine.

Katherine: He’s our ever present help in my time of need and my time of need is all the time. And I really believe that is one of the best revelations that God’s given me because knowing that I need His help and knowing that He’s so willing and so wanting to give me more than I need has been the key I believe really to walking in a joy and a deep satisfaction that produces fruit and supernatural miracles.

Sid: You know I read a book a number of years ago about the presence of God that was Brother Lawrence “Practicing the presence of God.” And to what degree do you do that?

Katherine: I need to spend time alone with God more than I need anything. So I love to walk and talk with God. I do all my verbal processing with Him; I tell Him how I’m feeling and I look to Him for help. You know He is my ever present help and He’s my teacher and my counselor and when I expose my need to Him; when I talk to Him about my fears; when I talk to Him about my weaknesses, He’s always got the answer for me. And He always manifests Himself to me with what I need. The Bible tells us that He makes us lie down in green pastures and He restores our soul. And every day I believe that God wants to bring us daily bread, He wants to help us. And unless we actually take advantage of this beautiful fellowship we miss out on the rich fair that God wants to feed us with day by day. To walk with Him is my greatest joy and it’s the thing I need about above anything else.

Sid: Now when you pray for someone and they’ve got… let’s take the person that had no ear and no eardrum. You certainly… you don’t have to be a PhD to know that you’re in trouble if God doesn’t show up. So you put your hand on them and you pray but what’s going on inside of Katherine Ruonala?

Katherine: Oh, at that moment I was thinking that it might grow back overnight. I honestly did not feel like I had huge faith but this I know that when God tells me to do something that obedience brings blessing. I just trust the He knows what He’s doing; and you know that sometimes when I go to pray for the sick I find myself you know really wanting to see it happen. And Holy Spirit will just tap me on the shoulder and say “Rest back into Me.” Because it’s through Him that it flows and as a result I’ve started to see people get healed before I get to lay hands on them. I started to become God’s reporter that when I have word of knowledge they step out and God touch them before I can even get to them.

Sid: And you know what it sounds like it’s almost like… I kid around a lot sometimes I demonstrate it when I’m speaking before a group. I say “Watch this and I’m not going to say a word and watch what happens to the presence of God.” And the minute I shut my mouth the presence of God increases; so it lets me know how important I am to the deal.   (Laughing)

Katherine: Oh, it’s so true and He just enjoys working with us; He enjoys working through us. But I tell you He is God and He is the healer and when people become aware of His presence and reach out to Him He is irresistibly drawn to anybody that will become vulnerable and expose their need to Him and look to Him for help. Jesus always manifests Himself as the answer; that’s who He is. And that’s who He was when we read about Him in the scripture; everyone who came to Him with a problem and looked to Him for help He manifested Himself as the answer to them. And He’s the same yesterday, today and forever if we’ll get humble and expose our need to Him and look to Him.

Sid: You know I don’t hear that word that often humble, humility and that is the missing ingredient in many many Christians. But I’ll tell you what Katherine wants to mentor you because that’s what she does she’s got a whole ministry team that does what she does….

Sid: My guest by way of telephone Dr. Paul L. Cox from Asland’s Place Ministry in Apple Valley, California. We’ve been talking this week about realms that most people have only read about in the Bible. Paul before we went on the air you were telling me about your moving yourself and your whole ministry into a new realm when it comes to deliverance, explain.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Well when the Lord started releasing deliverance in the early ’90s we pretty much use a classical deliverance model. We would talk to demons and we’d get information and the Lord started telling me that I was not do that anymore and that He was going to change the model. He started releasing more and more information. And then I had some prophetic words very early that with one word I would cast the demonic out. I pretty much told the people the prophetic that that was impossible you couldn’t do it that way. Then some years later a prophet friend of mine from Alaska called and said he had a scripture for me and it was from the book of Matthew. And the verse was “With one word the Lord cast the demonic out.” And he said “Do you know what you’re supposed to do with that? And I said “I think so.” So I started to say one word and with my discernment I could feel the demonic start leaving and I could feel it leaving for up to 70 hours, as the Lord would clean out the person’s entire generational line.

Sid: Now you’ve lost me, what do you mean for 70 hours?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: For 70 hours if someone would stay with us I could feel the enemy coming off the person’s generational line.

Sid: That’s interesting now I’ve prayed for people for deliverance and I’ve put my hand on them and prayed and I can feel the thing leaving.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes.

Sid: Is that what you’re explaining.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Exactly, then I started receiving prophetic words that the Lord was going to be using us to do deliverance on congregations. We were in Honolulu last… the end of last year. I’d been invited to speak at a healing service at a Monday night. I expected just a few people to show up and the church was packed. And so we were back in the back praying and we felt the power of God come on us incredibly strong, so much so that we literally were on the floor in the power of God. And then we told it was time and we had to go to the front to start speaking. I got to the front and the power of God was on me so strongly that I started 3 or 4 times to speak and I was not able to. Then I just stood there and I said “I do not know what God wants to do but there’s something new happening. And with my discernment I felt the demonic starting to come off of people in that congregation. Waves of the power of God started coming over.

Sid: Now are you saying before you even prayer?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes, I didn’t have to do anything. And waves of the power of God started coming over the people, people started falling on the ground manifesting. The Lord started setting people free.   I never know when this is going to happen…

Sid: In other words you can’t pray right now you can only do it, I mean you could but you could really with power when the Lord tells you to do it or it just happens while you’re talking.

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   No, I can discern with my discernment and God’s going to do it. I was in Argentina and a prophetess from the United States was speaking and I felt a furnace. And you remember Mt. Sinai Moses said that the furnace was on the mountain.

Sid: Yes.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: And now when I feel that furnace I know that God’s fire is going to come, His purifying fire. And He literally is going to drive the enemy out of the congregation.  

Sid: Well give me an example of what happens when that fire comes.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: When the fire comes…

Sid: I mean give me an exact example of a congregation that this happened in.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Okay, for example I was in Toronto this last week. And we were ministering to the School of Ministry there and there were about 100 kids there. And the furnace showed up and again I was not able to talk anymore and kids literally started falling to the ground manifesting. The Lord had deliverance sovereignly on everybody there.

Sid: Okay, in churches in Bible schools what about the highways and byways, do these gifts ever operate when you’re outside of the 4 walls?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes, very often. I have a sense that the Lord is going to release discernment as evangelism and it starts setting people free so that they no longer are confused by what the enemy is doing and can accept Christ.

Sid: Let me give you an example, there are a lot of Jewish people like you know I come from a Jewish background.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes.

Sid: That have such defenses built up that they’re almost… you can’t penetrate them unless a miracle happens and God removes He calls the spiritual scales.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes.

Sid: Are you saying we can facilitate this?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: I believe this is something that the Lord is going to do. I have faith that He’ll do it. But again I cannot initiate it, everything that has happened to me in discernment the Lord has initiated. I just had to discover what He was doing. Many times I do not understand sometimes for weeks what’s new in my discernment. But when I enter into what He’s doing I go back to what Jesus did. Jesus said “He only did what the Father was doing.”

Sid: Right.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: My level of discernment is I can understand what the Father’s doing and when you enter into that that’s when I see amazing amount of power take place.

Sid: Do you have any revelation on Jesus said “You’ll do the same works I’ve done and even greater.”

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yeah.  

Sid: What did He mean by greater, I know the works He did but what about greater?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Well I don’t know I’m not smart enough to know that but I’ll tell you what He’s done with me I’d never would have dreamed could have happened. Well people say to me “Well I can’t do that.” And my response is “Well you can’t do that yet but you can believe that you can do more than you’re doing now.” And I was over 45 when this happened to me and I didn’t ask for it, I didn’t know about it. But it is a much more exciting way to live as a Christian and it’s certainly not boring.

Sid: Now when you’re out in a restaurant…

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   Yes.

Sid: Have the gifts of discernment operated and what have you done about it. Give me an exact example.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Oh, it’s fun. The Lord loves to eat out.  

Sid: (Laughing)

Dr. Paul L. Cox: And we’ll be in a restaurant and angels will land, prophetic words will come. We’ve had, one time we were in a restaurant and angels started landing and I was with an intern.  

Sid: How did you know an angel was landing, how did you know that an angel was landing?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: I could feel it on my head.  

Sid: You mean he landed on you.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Right by me yes.

Sid: Huh, and what’s it feel like?

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   It’s like a pressure on the center of my head.

Sid: How do you know it’s angel and not a demon?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: It’s an angel because the Lord taught me how to discern that. Now Sid you gave me permission to do whatever happens right?

Sid: Absolutely.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Okay, well there’s an angel by you right now and it has something to say to you, this is a message from the Lord for you. Okay, the message is still coming and the message is almost here. Okay there was some thoughts that came into your mind?

Sid: No.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Keep listening. I’ve never done this on radio before, you generally feel or see?

Sid: I do both, well no I don’t see I generally feel or hear.

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   Hear, okay.

Sid:  And I usually hear like one word, like I did hear the word head.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Okay, ask the Lord why He gave you that word, now there is more information coming. Same angel is now giving you more information. What is happening now the Lord is telling me what is going on by you through a pressure on my head.

Sid: Well I can hardly wait, tell me.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Well he gives you the message.

Sid: Okay, (Laughing) oh my goodness.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Okay, it’s still coming.

Sid: Well I did what I normally hear when I’m in the Spirit, I hear one word.

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   Okay.

Sid: I heard head, which and I know what that means. What that means is anyone that wants a healing in any area of their head or neck they can receive. I heard hip, which means anyone that starts exercising by faith walking will be healed. Now that’s the way it normally operates when I’m ministering. So could this be the same angel that tells me words when I minister?

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   Exactly, I feel anointing with that and the Lord’s confirming. Now what I can tell you is there is an angel that the Lord sent to give you those two words and so you have given those two words. And then the Lord is going to honor you speaking those words out in faith.

Sid: Okay, I was looking for a whole message, that’s why I was being still. I heard single words.

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   Nope, I think you did just perfectly.

Sid: Well my goodness the anointing is getting stronger. Can you tell what’s going on with that angel?

Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes, there is an anointing on approval of the Lord on your life.  

Sid: It’s getting stronger.

Dr. Paul L. Cox: It is.

Sid: And my hands are getting warm and I hear the word back. Which obviously means anyone with a back problem and the head I’m hearing again. If you have a back or a head problem is being healed in Jesus Name.

Dr. Paul L. Cox:   Yes, there is anointing with that also.

Sid: Now on tomorrow’s broadcast we’re going to experience that Shabbat that Sabbath rest way beyond Orthodox Jews, way beyond Sunday Christians there must be something more. There is something more….

SID: So James and his wife had nine straight weeks of visitations of angels. Tell me that first night, what happened?

JAMES: It was absolutely amazing. You know, again, it happened right at 11:59, and I’ve always pondered, was that night not like a clock of God to a countdown to the midnight hour. An angel of the Lord came and stood in our room and he says to me, he says, “Watch your wife. I’m about to speak to her.” Now it didn’t only center around her. But he did come to speak to her and that night, this angel came and laid hands on her back, and she got delivered of the fear of man and the fear of rejection. And then the Lord called her, herself, to be a preacher and a prophetess that night.

SID: Now tell me about those lights. That’s amazing.

JAMES: Yeah. Not only did an angel come and stand at the end of the bed, but there had been a supernatural ball of light about this big around that stood over our dresser for five straight hours, and our room was illuminated with the realm of the Glory of God. I mean, we didn’t have to turn on a light. The whole room was radiating with the presence. Another one of the nights, there 29 of these fireballs, not just in a vision They showed up and they were circling around the ceiling and in the room. And we would just say, “Hit us with the fire of God.” And they’d come crashing down on us, the fire of God. And we were getting empowered by the Holy Spirit with new levels of authority over the realms of demonic, over realms of darkness, and then just new faith bursting in us for visitations.

SID: Well how did this change you? I mean what gifting did you see that perhaps wasn’t there that strong?

JAMES: One of the things that changed was my concept concerning women in ministry, and women in leadership. That was one of the main things that changed. Because all of a sudden, I was now married to a lioness who roared. I was married to Betty Crocker homemaker and now she was a roaring lion. So number one thing that changed was my view concerning women in leadership and women in ministry. And then there was just this empowered dimension, I mean, it empowered us so much that we didn’t want to just keep this for us. We wanted to now take this, spread the fire to the world. John Wesley, they asked him a question and they said, “How do you gather a crowd?” And John Wesley said, “I set myself on fire and people come to watch me burn.” Well that’s what happened with us and we’ve been gathering crowds, and I’ve been gathering crowds to watch us burn.

SID: I’m going to tell you something. You are really provoking me to jealousy.

JAMES: Good.

SID: But I want just to kind of whet our appetite a little bit. You heard an audible voice about the miraculous words of knowledge. Tell me about that.

JAMES: I moved into my new home there in Franklyn, Tennessee. The audible voice of the Lord, I’m not referring right in my heart. I’m talking about the external voice of the Lord came and thundered in my bedroom and said this: “The seeds that the seers and the prophets had sowed into the generation decades ago have now come into fruition. Therefore, there will now be an increase of a detailed gift of a word of knowledge and an increase of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that will create an atmosphere of the fear of the Lord, awe and wonder.”

SID: How close are we to the manifestation of that Word for you and for others?

JAMES: I believe it’s already started.

SID: Has it started in you?

JAMES: Yeah. Absolutely, because you see, when you hear the Word of God, the Book of Romans says, “That when you hear the words of Christ it produces faith.” So when I heard that, it catapulted me over to another level of hunger, into another level of asking, and then to another level of expectation. Anticipation, it’s called. And so by also in seeing this, the next generation in particular, not just them. Because I’m just saying, hey listen, you guys, you next generation guys, and I mentor a good deal of them, I go, I might be an older guy at this time, but you’re going to have to run real fast because this guy is catching his second wind.

SID: I’m sure. Tell me what God showed you, briefly, about Syria.

JAMES: Well this is over 10 years ago. I’ve been prophesying for over a decade. Then in the year 2013 and the year 2014, while all eyes would be on Iran and should be, that the great threat in the Middle East would come out of Syria. And I have been prophesying this for over a decade. An angel came, again, and stood at the end of my bed, and this warrior angel, he was dressed in military uniform, a warrior angel, and he pronounced to me. All he said was this: “Attention! Be on the alert.” And I was riveted with the supernatural energy of God. I could not go back to sleep even if I wanted to. And I just wanted to release a word, and I just wanted to say, “Watchman on the walls, it’s time,” Isaiah 62, Verse 6 and 7, “I have planned and I have chosen you as a watchman on the walls. Take your place. Attention! Be on the alert. And the shields of the earth belong to the Lord and be called forth something greater than the iron dome around Israel. We call forth [that] the shields of the earth belong to the Lord. And we call forth supernatural protection around Israel and even around our home homes in Jesus’ name.”

SID: You know what I’m reminded of? Yes. I’m reminded of Psalm 122:6, which is a commandment and the commandment goes like this: “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Thou shalt prosper that love thee.” The word “prosper” in the Hebrew means heart peace, and this world needs heart peace. If you have peace, what can anyone take from you? Pray for the peace of Jerusalem and you and your house shall have heart peace. Consider that a word from God at this strategic time in history. This is the set time to favor Zion. And God says, “I God will bless those who bless the Jewish people. I God will curse those who curse them.” Choose this day. Are you going to be on God’s said or are you going to be on the opposite? It’s for me and my house, it’s for you and your house. I proclaim you’re on God’s side.

Sid: Well my guest Kynan Bridges is red hot for the Messiah; I mean he literally woke up one night and sees Jesus right at the foot of his bed. But before we get to that Kynan let’s kind of whet their appetite just a little bit. I want you to tell me the story of the woman who was in a car accident and she had most of the bones in her legs and knees and thighs were crushed. Tell me about her.

Kynan:  Yeah, this was a very remarkable story; this woman had been a very very devastating car accident, almost lost her life. Her daughter almost died in the car accident which is a whole other story. And they told her that she would never walk again and if she by chance was able to walk she would never be able to wear heals, do anything, play any sports, do any physical activity at all. Well anyway, this woman got a hold of our teaching and she began to understand more about the promises in God’s word for healing and the provision for divine healing through the cross of the Messiah.   And she began to give this until she started coming to our meetings and while she was coming to our meetings, one night we had a prayer meeting and literally we’re praying and we were getting ready to release the power of our God. And as we were doing that the fire of God literally came down on this lady and she just hit the floor. Boom! And when she hit the floor she began to wail and to scream for about 30 minutes straight. Well after this we kind of you know we helped her up and went on about our business. Well about 2 days later while I was at an event I noticed someone came in the door that was wearing full workout gear. And she walks up to me with sweat falling down her head and with her workout gear on and I said “Hey, how you doing?” And she says “Do you know where I just came from?” I said “No mam.” And she said “I just ran 9 miles.”   And I said “Say that again” She said “I just ran 9 miles.” And I’m looking at her and she says “You don’t understand, I ran 9 miles.” The girls that ran with her literally pulled over to the side of the road and had to vomit. And this lady is running full force with not a single ounce of pain in her body. Since then she skates regularly, she wears high heels. What happened to her Sid when the fire of God was coming down on her the Holy Spirit was literally transfusing the metal in her leg to bone. And she was supernaturally healed.

Sid: You know that that’s happening more and more to people to people metal from implants turning to bone. But now I’ve got to take you back, on yesterday’s broadcast we talked about Jesus questioned the condition of your heart. I mean that has got to be kind of devastating. What did He mean exactly?

Kynan: Well when we think about the condition of our heart you know often times we think about our sins that we commit or I call them the big sins you know adultery, fornication, murder, those kind of things. And I was not participating in any of those but I believe that I believe that it goes deeper than that. Sid I believe that when we talk about the condition of our heart we’re talking about the state of our soul in reference to the way we see God, our desire for Him, our longing for Him. And what has happened in the Body of Christ is the hearts of many have waxed cold. We have somehow through our mind through the circumstances of our lives we’ve become distracted. We’ve become preoccupied and really we don’t know it but really it’s a form of idolatry because what has happened is people have placed their trust and faith in another source. And so the Lord was dealing with me, He was dealing with me about the fact that if you’re not seeing My power it’s not my fault. That’s basically what God was saying to me. “You need to search your heart and make sure that there’s nothing blocking the flow of My power or My presence or My love in your heart.” Because our heart is a repository, it’s like a bank. And that what the word heart means kardia in the Greek. It’s talking about the repository of your thoughts, your emotions, your mindset. That’s why Jesus says “If a man looks at a woman to lust after her he’s committed adultery with her in his heart.” Because once the heart begins to desire something else as far as God’s concerned that is already done. And so when we look at the heart the Bible talks about how “The hearts of the fathers will be turned back to the children, to the sons.” And I believe that that’s what the Lord was doing and that’s what He was dealing with. Dealing with how we see Him, how much we love Him, is He first in our lives? Is He our hearts desire, do we long for Him more than we long for anything else.

Sid:  Alright, what if someone says to those questions you just shot out “No, no, no but I want it to change.” What is your advice?

Kynan: Again, like we said previously the first thing is to be honest with ourselves. I mentioned earlier about Peter and the people that heard the message of the gospel for the first time in Acts chapter 2 and they said “What must we do to be saved?” You know often times when we think of salvation Sid we think of people that are not in relationship with God coming into relationship with God and that is a part of salvation. That is an introductory part of salvation. But the salvation experience is continuous, we are daily experiencing salvation, we are daily experiencing salvation, we are daily experiencing deliverance. And that happens as we repent, as we turn from our way as we turn from what we believe and we turn to what God says as the truth. The more we do that the more our heart is open to him. The more that we will begin to desire Him. You know let me share this real quick because the Lord just dropped this in my spirit. The most homeopathic doctors suggest that the average American has never experienced hunger. Because hunger is not something in the western world that were really familiar with and here’s why. Most people believe that when their stomach growls when they get hungry that means it’s time to eat. So they say “Hey, my stomachs growling that means my body’s telling me it’s time to eat.” You know what’s actually happening Sid when your stomach growls?

Sid: What?

Kynan: You’re actually detoxifying, your body’s detoxifying itself real hunger begins in the throat. And here’s my point, I want to make this clear point. The Bible says “Blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled.” Now why do I say that? Most people in the Body of Christ have been so full of toxins, religious toxins, mental toxins, physical toxins that they have never experienced the wonderful, the miraculous hunger for God. And whatever you hunger after is what you’re going to be filled with. So when you hunger for His presence, when you hunger for His power you’re going to be filled with His presence, you’re going to be filled with His power. And so I believe that’s when the Holy Spirit is really saying in this hour.

Sid: I see that very clearly. I want to take you now to the moment where Jesus, and this happened fairly recently, Jesus was at the foot of your bed calling your name.

Kynan: So, I’m sleeping one night and again like I mentioned I’d been asking God “You know, I want to know You, I want to encounter You.” And I have to be honest, I get jealous of people where they have all of these experiences where they see Jesus and they’re taken to heaven and I said God “What about me?” (Laughing) you know, so I’m sleeping in my bed one night and I look up and I hear a sound that’s awaken me, almost like someone’s calling my name. And I look and standing at the foot of my bed is a man dressed in all white. It’s almost like surreal and this is a very real experience and I know by the Spirit that this is the Lord Jesus Himself. And He begins to call out to me He says “Kynan, Kynan.” I say “Yes Lord” but by the time that I was in the middle of deep sleep so I was a little bit sleepy and it’s like “Here I am and you’re not even ready to hear Me when I’m calling you or when I’m trying to visit you.” And Sid, He did the most amazing thing he reached into his chest and he pulled out his heart, and this was not a… the best way I can describe it. This was not like a horror movie experience, this was something spiritual. He reaches into His chest and He pulls out His heart and He extends it to me. And it begins to beat and as He pulled out His heart and extends it towards me. I begin to feel what He feels, I begin to have the desires that He has. It’s almost like I was feeling and reading His heart and it was beating. And I knew by the Holy Ghost what He was trying to say to me and He says “This is My heart for the nations.” I realized Sid that His heart was broken, and the reason why His heart was broken was because of millions of believers and even unbelievers are being tormented by the devil. They’re being afflicted in their bodies and guess what Sid they’re blaming Jesus for it.

Sid: The only one that has paid the price to heal them. The devil has them coming and going.

Kynan: Yes, and He is broken because He says “Don’t you know the sacrifice, Kynan don’t they know the sacrifice that I made for them, Don’t they know the price that I paid for their healing and restoration, don’t they know what I had to go through so that they could be made whole?”

Sid: Kynan, our time is up right I hate to break you right here but I have to.

SID: Hello. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Wait until you hear this. My guest gets caught up into the heavenlies and eavesdrops on conversations between Jesus and Father God, and then he, it’s like an actor on the stage, he just acts out what they’ve been saying. Isn’t that what the Messiah taught? I only do what I see my Heavenly Father doing. My guest comes from a non-religious home, good parents, but a non-religious home, and at age 12, he had a defining moment. What happened?

SHANE: Well at age 12, I went to visit my grandfather and again, didn’t know anything about Jesus, didn’t know who he was, and had a visitation from the Lord where He appeared to me. And I sought for years to describe that experience. The only thing I could find is in Isaiah 6, where it says, “I was undone,” I literally felt undone. I had not committed any great sin, but I just knew that I had need of Him, and the feeling was overwhelming. He walked up to me, put his hand on my head, it literally burned like fire, and he said, “I’ve called you to the nations.” And I just began to weep uncontrollably.

SID: When he put his hand on your head, people use adjectives. Flippantly, you said it felt like a fire. Did it really?

SHANE: It literally felt like fire, like my head was on fire. In fact, I closed my eyes and started weeping, and when I looked back up, he was gone, but I could still feel his hand on my head.

SID: Now you said to me that many times since that time when you’re, you feel the fire on your head, as a matter of fact, you know what it sounds like? Shavuot, Pentecost, when flames of fire came on the heads of the people that were praying. Do you think that might have been the same fire?

SHANE: I think it exactly was the same fire, and here’s the reason why. A week later, I invited my parents, my grandparents, everybody to church, and went to the altar to receive something, I didn’t know what I was going for. And the preacher said, “What are you here for?” And I said, “I don’t know.” He said, “Have you received the Holy Spirit?” I said, no. He came down, put his hand on my head, exact same place, same fire hit me. I fell out. I never even heard of anything called the Holy Spirit. I began to speak in a heavenly language. And when I came to, I heard the loudest screaming you could ever hear, and my mother and daddy were at the altar. They were being delivered and set free. And God healed our family, touched my dad’s life, changed our whole world, turned it upside down, took us out of poverty and took us into wealth. I mean, God literally turned it, and it was the same fire. It’s the same fire that I feel right now setting here talking with you.

SID: Do you feel that fire in your head now, out of curiosity?

SHANE: I feel it right now. I felt it all day. I felt it for the last three days since I’ve known that I was coming to film this program.

SID: Well here’s what I believe. I believe that fire of God is on your head right now and I believe that if you will pray miracles will break out right now.

SHANE: You’re closer to a miracle than you think you are. And in the name of Jesus, I release the power of God into your situation. All you need is one touch from him and he’s closer to you than your own breath. And right now in the name of Jesus Christ I take authority over every illness, over every disease, over every bondage, no matter what’s going on in your life, I release the power of God into your life, into your situation. Rise up and be set free in the name of Jesus Christ.

SID: You’re a young man. Your father died. Your mother is terminal. You’re at the end of your rope and the only thing you know to do, even though things look bad in the natural, is to worship God. You go into your music room, you take your guitar, you’re worshiping God. What happened?

SHANE: The only way I know how to describe this moment is I was caught up into the realms. People ask me, was it Heaven, and I can’t say. All I can say is I was caught up into the heavenlies and God began to show me things in the scripture that I had studied for years as a pastor, as a leader of a church. Built great churches, but didn’t have a revelation of the supernatural realm. And God began to release that revelation to me. This lasted for over seven hours. Seven hours later when I came back to myself, I was still sitting in that same chair with the guitar. And I had just determined in that moment, Sid, that my mother was dying. We had just had a man who was blind that had been healed. We had a man with a short limb that had grown out. Over 20-something people had been healed of cancer in our service, in one service. A little girl with eyes that were crossed, we literally watched them, and this so hard not to weep, but we literally watched them uncross before our eyes. She took her thick coke bottle-like glasses off. She can still see to this day. She’s a teenager now in our church. Could see. And I prayed and prayed, and asked God to heal my mother, who was dying, and I couldn’t seem to get a miracle. And so I just made a statement: God, no matter what happens, I’m going to worship you because you’re God no matter what. But Satan, I want you to know something. That no matter what happens tonight, you will never take my song. You can’t take my praise and you can’t take my worship. And I just went crazy and started praising God.

SID: You didn’t go crazy. You became normal as defined by the Bible. And I believe there are people watching us right now and you’re going through situations like this, and you’re saying, God where are you? And I tell you the same thing that Shane told you. You are God and my peanut brain doesn’t have all the facts. But if I had all the facts, I would get down on my face, I would repent for doubting God and I would worship Him the way Shane did, and I would be normal. Normal as defined by the Bible. We’re going to come right back and find out some of these mysteries that God revealed during this seven-hour visitation. Don’t go away.

Sid: I’m so excited about the remnant package that we’re making available this week, brand new book by Pat Schatzline “I AM Remnant” the 3 powerful messages on CD. When he shares these miracles erupt and the “Manifesto of the Remnant” poster. You told me this was downloaded to you from heaven. Number 1 What is the purpose or these 34 proclamations?

Pat: The remnant proclamations or manifesto are compasses or plumblines to guide the remnant to stand firm in the darkness of culture. And God gave me 34 and I just began to write them down on my phone. As He gave them to me I felt the presence of God and would break for a moment and began to weep, and I would pray in the Spirit. If was as if I was walking I felt as if there was angels standing over my shoulders. And I’ve seen angels obviously and encounters with angels, supernatural experiences with angels. In fact the minute I got done writing it I got back to my car and laying in the front seat was a white feather. I just started laughing, I said “God you’re so good.” And then I looked up and my wife and I believe strongly the rainbow has always been used to show us we’re on the right track. And I look up and I’m about to pull away and I took a picture over my phone and there was a rainbow, a rainbow streaking across the sky. And it was as if the Lord was saying in the Hebrew “Y-O-O” or well done is the word in the Hebrew. It was as if I could hear the Lord say “Okay, now you’re ready to write the book.” And I used those to write the vision right. And there’s people listening right now I want to go ahead and warn you while you’re on this call if you’re driving, at home, or wherever your listening you’re going to feel the glory of the Lord overwhelm you and you’re not going to understand it except to say that it’s His love. Because the Lord just put that in my spirit to tell you, His right there beside you you’re not alone.

Sid: Tell me a couple of the proclamations, and I might add you proclaim these on one of the 3 powerful messages we’re making available in additions to the poster. But tell me a few that were downloaded from heaven.

Pat: The remnant will consist of failures, fatherless, forgotten and freedom fighters. And their pedigree is out of a scared Savior. The remnant cannot be defined by man’s human concepts because the remnant finds their value in the eyes of their Savior. A remnant will not… the remnant has decided that at all costs I will not quit on the One that would not quit on them. And I could keep going until it begins to burn in my spirit. I may start preaching but the remnant doesn’t stop when they should have died because they know that Jesus did. And the remnant has chosen to let go of past hurts in order to experience the freedom that comes with forgiving and moving forward. The remnant has chosen to leave a life of compromise for the spirit of consecration being set apart. And here’s my favorite “The remnant understands the fruit of the Spirit is not a salad for a church Pot Luck, but rather the diet of a lifetime. And the remnant knows the gifts of the Spirit are not for the Evangelical, Charismatic and Pentecostal talent show but the weapons of a dying Leader who has chosen Spirit over flesh and freedom over slavery.” That’s just some of them right there that God gave me.

Sid: Tell me about the statement the Oscar goes to the remnant that says “Yes.”

Pat: “The Oscar Goes To” is a chapter that I’m going to get real with you. I’m so frustrated with celebrity Christianity. And so many times a lot of people don’t realize the only celebrities in the Bible were children. And so many times, and the Lord has really dealt with me about this because of traveling and speaking over the world. The only red carpet in the Bible was where the blood of the martyrs was spilled. And the only roped areas where they hung the martyrs those that stood for Christ. And Jesus would had had a handlers, the woman with the issue of blood wouldn’t have never gotten to it. So the chapter on the Oscar goes to the… it so burns in me…the about those who will stand and realize that we are not the celebrity Jesus is. You know He always tells me I’ll get ready to walk on stage and He’ll say “Pat you open the curtain for me and let My glory show, if they can see you they can’t see me.” And God says to me “Pat you’re at a place where I’m crushing you like an olive to get the anointing oil out of you and I’m expecting you to stand up and be pure; it’s not about who knows you, it’s about who knows Me.” And I think so many times Sid people are literally screaming “No, not Him give us Barabbas.” And what I mean by that is we’re screaming “Look at me, don’t look at Jesus” because if they look at Jesus they might realize that we don’t look like Him very much. And God has called the remnant to be the humble, the broken, the ones who will weep and cry out to Him. The ones that will simply grab someone by the hand an unknown person and say “Let me walk you back to the cross.” So that’s where that guy the Oscar goes to is I’ll be honest I felt the Lord tell me “No more celebrities, I’m looking for the broken the remnant.”

Sid: You know I had a dream very similar to that when I was a brand new believer and let me tell you about my dream Pat. I was in heaven and it was academy rewards, not a-ward, academy rewards night. And so they opened up the envelope and I thought in my heart in this dream “Boy my name’s going to come out.” And instead a little old crinkled woman got the award and I’m looking at her. And then God speaks to me and God says “That could have been you.” I’m going to tell you something that really put the fear of God in me.

Pat: (Laughing)

Sid: But that’s the same thing that you’re talking about. You talk about the world going after the superstars and giving the superstars the trophies but what is God looking for?

Pat: You know about a year ago I had a dream and I fell asleep in a hotel room in Arkansas and I was speaking the next morning. And suddenly in my dream Jesus… and I’m not even sure that it was a dream as much as a visitation. Jesus walked into my hotel room and all I could see was His foot. But as He got closer I’m in a hotel room in my sleep I began go scream “Please do not come any closer or I’ll die” the fear of God came into my hotel room. And I said “If you come any closer I’ll die Lord.” And the Lord, all I saw was one foot with a scar print and I’m literally screaming in my sleep in my hotel room. And the Lord said to me “Son if you give me everything you have I’ll give you everything I have, if you’ll tell this world if they give me everything they have I’ll give them everything I have.” And suddenly He was gone, I was so shaken to the core, I got up and I turned on worship and began to dance before the Lord at 1:00 in the morning in a hotel room in Arkansas. And I began to study John 7 where it say “Ask seek and knock.” Those are perpetual terms that means “Never stop asking, never stop seeking, never stop knocking” because He’s there and He’s calling out to you. And it wrecked me much like your dream because I realized had I really given God everything?   He said “I want everything about you Pat.”

Sid: But, but wait a second how do you do that you can’t do that by yourself, what do you suggest you’re doing it, and what do we do?”

Pat: Well, I’ll be honest if that moment, and it started with me when my sister suddenly died of a drug overdose 7 years ago when I suddenly realized okay for years I’ve done it on my own, for years I’ve tried to build ministry and all of that kind of stuff. And it’s at that place where the end of yourself is the beginning of God. It’s a place where you get down and you say “God without You I’ve got nothing.” It’s a place where you come to contentment with His presence. My wife speaks a great deal about revelation about drinking from the well and getting to that place where you say “God, I died to everything, it’s not legalism it’s relationship.” It’s making up your mind “I’m not going to be a part of this world because I am awkward, I am called to be different, I am called to be separate.” But it’s tough, and I’m going to say this everybody talks about changing wineskins and it’s a powerful statement. But a lot of people don’t realize that once the wineskin changes God has to ferment the wine. It means it’s a long season of breaking and crushing and crying out and saying “I’m desperate.” God loves you so much that He won’t let you avoid the encounter, He forces you into encounter.

Sid: You make another statement and that is it should take less than 10 seconds to get into God’s presence. That’s sounds wonderful, is that true for everyone?

Pat: I believe that it’s for every single person. It’s like I can be in a crowd of 5 or 5,000 and simply say “The Holy Spirit is standing in front of you and He’s breathing on your face like He did to the disciples in John 20.” And people will begin to weep and wail. I was in a church several weeks ago, 3 weeks ago in North Carolina and I was walking on stage a crowd of 1000’s and I’m going to walk on stage and God said “God open the door and invite My Spirit in.” And I said “Lord Your already here I feel You. He said “I know, but I want to give them a tangible moment.” Sid this honestly happened. I run over to the side door of the sanctuary and I said “Folks this is just for me I guess and I say “Holy Spirit would You come in.” And at that moment people began to wail and cry out and weep, multicultural church, began to run to the front crying out to God. Because I believe your lifestyle shouldn’t change when you get to heaven. The encounter, I will say this when I talk to young ministers, you’re 30 minutes away from any moral failure, the enemy will track you. Thirty minutes away from making a mistake but your only 10 seconds from the presence of God to save you.

Sid: Now you say the whole thing, the whole process can start with a simple prayer that we believe. Later this week would you lead us in that prayer?

Pat: I’d be honored to, yes Sir.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest Steven Brooks operates in all nine gifts of the Spirit and he says every true believer in the Messiah can operate in these gifts. There’s no rejects. Every one of you can operate in these gifts. And he tells me that when he prays to activate the gifts that are within you, they’re going to be activated. You want that? Recently I had just a wonderful privilege of talking to an orthodox Jewish woman that came to know Messiah through a book that I had written and the only thing she knew, she didn’t know the Bible, she didn’t know anything except the book that I had written and our television show. And so I was trying to explain to her that some churches believe in miracles, some don’t believe in miracles, and you should have heard her reaction. Utter shock. They don’t believe in miracles? What’s wrong with them? Steven, you didn’t believe in miracles at one time. So, Steven Brooks, what turned it for you? In fact, you were taught not to believe in miracles.

STEVEN: Well all of my life growing up in church as a young child I was taught that the day of miracles had passed by. But I received a mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit when I was college. It changed my life and I found out that the power of God is still available to God’s people today.

SID: Now I would like to take some of the gifts of the Spirit and have you explain what they are, maybe give an example. Let’s take my favorite, the gift of healings.

STEVEN: Yes. That’s a wonderful gift. And as the old saying goes, “The gift of healing has always been the dinner bell for the lost.” In other words, back in the old days, a ranch hand would ring the dinner bell and then all the workers knew that means take a break, time to go to lunch. And so healing is still that dinner bell for the lost. And when those healing gifts are in manifestation, people will come to receive the healing power of God, and if we can have them come and receive that healing power, often times the lost also want to receive the healer as well. So they get the whole package: physical healing for the body, which is a restoration back to healing condition. The body may be diseased or injured or a condition of the body that previously held it back, coming back into a normal healed state. And the gifts of healings are very, very powerful. We must have them operating in the church today.

SID: I want them operating in the schools, in your business, when you’re shopping, when you’re going to the doctor’s. I think that this, I like what you said. It’s God’s dinner bell. It gets your attention, especially if you’re hungry. And people are hungry. You’re hungry. So Steven, there was a moment when you were touched with the supernatural gift of healing. Tell me about that.

STEVEN: Well before this gift was given to me, I would always pray for sick people, but I would pray with a prayer of faith. There was no tangible anointing or there was no manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit. But I would still see people healed just by praying in faith. They would connect their faith with mine and then that healing would come forth. But the gifts of healings are very powerful. It’s when the Holy Spirit works through you with a tremendous anointing. And that gift came upon me one day when I was in the Dallas, Texas area, and this gift came on me. It fell on me like I had put a garment over my shoulders. I said, “Lord, what is this?” He said, “From this day forward you will operate in the gifts of healings.” And a tremendous healing happened on that very same day as tangible proof that God had given me something that I had never walked in before.

SID: Tell me about the first time, the first one that happened that same day.

STEVEN: Well I was in Texas that day. I was staying at my brother’s house and my daughter came running into the house weeping and crying, screaming actually. And she said, “Daddy, they’re all over my legs.” I looked at her legs, there was nothing there, but she had brushed off the fire ants and she was still feeling their presence, but they stung her all over her legs. She had 28 welts that just broke out on her legs. I counted them and these red huge welts began to break out all over her legs. I laid my hands on her legs. I said, “In the name of Jesus, leave!” And every welt instantly disappeared, all the pain gone. She got up and went back outside and started playing.

SID: Did it shock you?

STEVEN: It did shock me. I had never had this happen before, ever. And before that, I would minister in the gift of prophecy and would minister in other gifts, but I never had the healing gift. So this was brand new. So I thought, I’m going to try it out. I’m going to go to the next meeting and I’m going to start praying for the sick. And the next meeting I went to I was going down the line praying for people, laying hands on them, and a young woman in the line, she was 16 years old, she had wore a back brace every day of her life. Matter of fact, she was required by the doctors to wear the back brace 22 hours out of every 24. And she had severe scoliosis of the spine, and I prayed for her, and I knew the Lord had touched her. I knew God got her. She went back to her seat, but when she walked back to her seat, she looked totally normal. And I left the next day to go to another meeting, but the pastor called me two days later. He said, “Steven, when she woke up the next morning, she got out of bed and her back was completely healed.” And on that same day, she had an appointment with the doctor. She went to the doctor. To the doctor’s great shock, he verified the healing. He said, “What happened to your back?” She said, “The Lord Jesus has healed my back.” And it was a dramatic healing. It was a miracle healing.

SID: You know Steven, he went with his wife Kelly to Israel with us as a guest teacher and a major miracle happened to one of our tourists. She had for, what was it, for 20 years multiple sclerosis?

STEVEN: She had severe pain with multiple sclerosis, and Sid has always enjoyed to see people get healed because often times they’re in tormenting pain. And to see the relief of that pain leave and to see the joy on a person’s face is priceless. And I remember we were there and I had ministered that night. There were some people that came forward for prayer. I had laid hands on her and God instantly healed her. All the pain left her body and it was an instantaneous miracle that happened right on the spot. That’s been four years.

SID: I was just going to ask how long has it been and he just answered. Four years after 20 years of that type of pain. I’m going to tell you something. That is normal according to the Bible that I read and it’s time that we started being normal. When we come back, I’m going to ask Steven to totally demystify the gifts of the Spirit.