Sid Roth

Sid: The truth is that is the only normal way to function. Some of you are abnormal it’s time for you to be normal. I’ve got a normal believer on the telephone; her name is Clarice Holden. On May 8, 2000 her husband was hit by a drunk driver, he catapulted out of his car; his car rolled over a number of times. What was wrong with him initially Clarice?

Clarice: Well his neck was broken in 2 places Sid. His leg was broken in 15 places. His spleen was torn, his liver, and his kidney, and his pelvis was crushed. It was kind of bad there, but they were all things that they thought would heal.

Sid: But he reached a point where he wasn’t healing. You knew there was something wrong; the doctors didn’t have a clue; you insisted on them doing one more test. They did, and they said “This is an emergency situation. We’ve got to operate to save his life.” They operated then what did they tell you?

Clarice: They come in and the doctor looked at me and said “Miss Holden we’ve done all we can do. I’m sorry he will not make it through the night. It’ll be 3 hours maybe.” I looked at him, and you know I have never had my back against the wall like that Sid. It kind of takes your breath away when somebody tells you something like that. He said “You need to go home and prepare yourself.” I…

Sid: Three hours isn’t much time.

Clarice: No it isn’t. He said “I’m sorry to say that when we did the surgery that his insides came out, and I cannot close him back up.” It had been seeping all week in his system that he was swollen real bad, and whenever they did the incision everything came out. He says “He is in intensive care; he is on life support for the time being, but I’m sorry but he is not going to make it. There is nothing we can do, we’ve done everything.” I said “You know Dr.…” Maxwell was his name. I said “You don’t know me, and I don’t know you, but I believe God will give you the wisdom. I will pray and I will believe, and I’ll know God will show you what to do. He is not going to die, but I need you to agree with me.” He said “Miss Holden I cannot get in agreement with you.” So he walks out and I go in and my pastor and his wife, and my brother-in-law, and sister-in-law was there. My pastor said to me “Do you need to be alone?” I said “Yes I do.” I went to the chapel and I started praying, and an hour later I guess had went by. I found myself laying on that floor just crying out to God to save my husband. I got up and I started out of that chapel and I ran into that doctor, the surgeon, Dr. Maxwell. I walked up to him and I said “Dr. Maxwell please get into agreement with me. I know that God will give you the wisdom to heal Ronnie,” and he says “Miss Holden I will.” From that I told him I needed several things from him. First I needed to know what it was going to take for him to get through that night, and he said “Okay I will tell you,” and he gave me instructions. Ronnie had a colostomy, but his fever was raging and his kidneys were shutting down.

Sid: Well basically all of his organs were rotting.

Clarice: Absolutely. So I went back and I never heard anybody do what I did. I didn’t have a hand bit for this, but I walked into the intensive care waiting room there and I told all our family; I said “God is going to heal him I know it in my heart…”

Sid: Did you have an audible voice, did you have a vision, or it’s just a knowing?

Clarice: It was just a knowing Sid. Everything I’ve ever got from God I had to do it by faith. Ronnie has visions, and I have to walk the line (laughing). I’ve laughed at him, but he always says “God gives each one of us what we need.” But this time I just knew in my heart, and I felt it and I was not gonna give up. I walked back and I said “I’m gonna tell you, God’s going to heal him, but I don’t want anybody walking out of this room ringing your hands crying were gonna pray and were gonna believe God, and were gonna be in one agreement. We are not going to say ‘Poor Ronnie,’ and nobody is gonna see him unless they believe the way I believe.”

Sid: Clarice how did you know how to give these, one after another, directives?

Clarice: I do not know, I never heard anybody do this. God had to give it to me, but the Holy Spirit really ministered to me and I wasn’t even aware of it. He was speaking through me, and my family looked at me, they knew that was not me, and they said “They would.” I said to the doctor I said “I want complete access to him 24 hours a day. I will never be in your way, but I need to be able to see him, and to pray.” I said “I need to know when you have all these doctors get together; I need to be able to hear what they’re saying, they need to know my name and I need to know their name. I want to be in on the meetings,” and they said “That’s fine.” I’ve never heard of this before Sid. I wanted to know so I would know how to pray, and I prayed specifically. I didn’t pray God just heal him, I prayed specifically. When we got through that first night I said “Lord I know and I know that you’re gonna do this.”

Sid: Well just out of curiosity,  since they said that he’d only live 3 hours, and you got by the first night. Did Doctor Maxwell or any of the other staff comment?

Clarice: Well he’d never seen anybody quite like me before.

Sid: (Laughing)

Clarice: Quite frankly, I had never seen anybody quite like me. He was kind of surprised. He said “Well, you know, he made it through the night.” I said “Yes he did and he’s gonna make it through tomorrow too.” He was having crises all the time; we were in a constant fight it was not an easy fight. He got through the first night, but the next day something else happened. He was having breakdown of different organs, so we would have to pray for that, and we would get over that hurtle. The whole church was surrounding us. Our pastors, the whole congregation, our praise team were supporting us and they were praying and believing for a miracle. One miracle after the other it was several miracles a day Sid.

Sid: Now did a lot of people on the staff at that hospital know what was going on?

Clarice:We were the spectacle; I’ll tell you I’ll be honest. They didn’t know what to expect out of me, and a lot of times Sid I would walk in the Intensive Care Unit where Ronnie was, and I could just stand there they’d be working on Ronnie. You know there were several times I just walked in and I couldn’t get in there was so many doctors, and technicians, and nurses taking care of him. I mean he was hooked up to so many machines; he had 24 tubes coming into him. His abdomen was wide open for 12 days, and they just had a mesh over him. It was unbelievable he had this huge halo on, but I didn’t see Ronnie as he was laying there, I saw him as a well man; I saw him as what he is today. I didn’t look at what was there; I called things as though as they are today, not as they were that day.

Sid: Clarice you said you didn’t have a manual. I think you have one now. I think this book were making available called “Fighting Death and Other Desperate Battles” is a manual that I’d imagine would have helped a lot if you had this.

Clarice: I tell you it would have, but everything was happening so fast. I mean Ronnie was crashing, he was having a lot of problems. We were having to pray and intercede 24 hours a day. I never left the hospital for 52 days. From the day he came till the day he left I left with him.

Sid: But there must have been many times, because no matter how strong you were, you were pretty strong there, very strong there beyond normal. No I take it back, you were normal. (Laughing) There must have been moments where you said “Am I going crazy, or he’s not going to live.”

Clarice: There was one time, and my friend Sandy she is our church secretary, she and my other friend Barbara Campbell were with me 24 hours a day. I had an interceder with me, they interceded day and night. A prayer warrior that we were fighting for Ronnie’s life no matter what came up, but there was one morning about 3:00, we had fought and fought. They had one Code Blue after the other, and you know I was like “Lord you’ve gotta help me.” I went to the restroom there and the enemy come at me. He said “You’ve got to plan your husband’s funeral.” Oh I just knew and I just started hitting the walls with my fists so loud that I was screaming that I had to get that into my spirit that I had to get what he was saying to me out, and to get what…

Sid: Were out of time.

Sid: The truth is that is the only normal way to function. Some of you are abnormal it’s time for you to be normal. I’ve got a normal believer on the telephone; her name is Clarice Holden. On May 8, 2000 her husband was hit by a drunk driver, he catapulted out of his car; his car rolled over a number of times. What was wrong with him initially Clarice?

Clarice: Well his neck was broken in 2 places Sid. His leg was broken in 15 places. His spleen was torn, his liver, and his kidney, and his pelvis was crushed. It was kind of bad there, but they were all things that they thought would heal.

Sid: But he reached a point where he wasn’t healing. You knew there was something wrong; the doctors didn’t have a clue; you insisted on them doing one more test. They did, and they said “This is an emergency situation. We’ve got to operate to save his life.” They operated then what did they tell you?

Clarice: They come in and the doctor looked at me and said “Miss Holden we’ve done all we can do. I’m sorry he will not make it through the night. It’ll be 3 hours maybe.” I looked at him, and you know I have never had my back against the wall like that Sid. It kind of takes your breath away when somebody tells you something like that. He said “You need to go home and prepare yourself.” I…

Sid: Three hours isn’t much time.

Clarice: No it isn’t. He said “I’m sorry to say that when we did the surgery that his insides came out, and I cannot close him back up.” It had been seeping all week in his system that he was swollen real bad, and whenever they did the incision everything came out. He says “He is in intensive care; he is on life support for the time being, but I’m sorry but he is not going to make it. There is nothing we can do, we’ve done everything.” I said “You know Dr.…” Maxwell was his name. I said “You don’t know me, and I don’t know you, but I believe God will give you the wisdom. I will pray and I will believe, and I’ll know God will show you what to do. He is not going to die, but I need you to agree with me.” He said “Miss Holden I cannot get in agreement with you.” So he walks out and I go in and my pastor and his wife, and my brother-in-law, and sister-in-law was there. My pastor said to me “Do you need to be alone?” I said “Yes I do.” I went to the chapel and I started praying, and an hour later I guess had went by. I found myself laying on that floor just crying out to God to save my husband. I got up and I started out of that chapel and I ran into that doctor, the surgeon, Dr. Maxwell. I walked up to him and I said “Dr. Maxwell please get into agreement with me. I know that God will give you the wisdom to heal Ronnie,” and he says “Miss Holden I will.” From that I told him I needed several things from him. First I needed to know what it was going to take for him to get through that night, and he said “Okay I will tell you,” and he gave me instructions. Ronnie had a colostomy, but his fever was raging and his kidneys were shutting down.

Sid: Well basically all of his organs were rotting.

Clarice: Absolutely. So I went back and I never heard anybody do what I did. I didn’t have a hand bit for this, but I walked into the intensive care waiting room there and I told all our family; I said “God is going to heal him I know it in my heart…”

Sid: Did you have an audible voice, did you have a vision, or it’s just a knowing?

Clarice: It was just a knowing Sid. Everything I’ve ever got from God I had to do it by faith. Ronnie has visions, and I have to walk the line (laughing). I’ve laughed at him, but he always says “God gives each one of us what we need.” But this time I just knew in my heart, and I felt it and I was not gonna give up. I walked back and I said “I’m gonna tell you, God’s going to heal him, but I don’t want anybody walking out of this room ringing your hands crying were gonna pray and were gonna believe God, and were gonna be in one agreement. We are not going to say ‘Poor Ronnie,’ and nobody is gonna see him unless they believe the way I believe.”

Sid: Clarice how did you know how to give these, one after another, directives?

Clarice: I do not know, I never heard anybody do this. God had to give it to me, but the Holy Spirit really ministered to me and I wasn’t even aware of it. He was speaking through me, and my family looked at me, they knew that was not me, and they said “They would.” I said to the doctor I said “I want complete access to him 24 hours a day. I will never be in your way, but I need to be able to see him, and to pray.” I said “I need to know when you have all these doctors get together; I need to be able to hear what they’re saying, they need to know my name and I need to know their name. I want to be in on the meetings,” and they said “That’s fine.” I’ve never heard of this before Sid. I wanted to know so I would know how to pray, and I prayed specifically. I didn’t pray God just heal him, I prayed specifically. When we got through that first night I said “Lord I know and I know that you’re gonna do this.”

Sid: Well just out of curiosity,  since they said that he’d only live 3 hours, and you got by the first night. Did Doctor Maxwell or any of the other staff comment?

Clarice: Well he’d never seen anybody quite like me before.

Sid: (Laughing)

Clarice: Quite frankly, I had never seen anybody quite like me. He was kind of surprised. He said “Well, you know, he made it through the night.” I said “Yes he did and he’s gonna make it through tomorrow too.” He was having crises all the time; we were in a constant fight it was not an easy fight. He got through the first night, but the next day something else happened. He was having breakdown of different organs, so we would have to pray for that, and we would get over that hurtle. The whole church was surrounding us. Our pastors, the whole congregation, our praise team were supporting us and they were praying and believing for a miracle. One miracle after the other it was several miracles a day Sid.

Sid: Now did a lot of people on the staff at that hospital know what was going on?

Clarice:We were the spectacle; I’ll tell you I’ll be honest. They didn’t know what to expect out of me, and a lot of times Sid I would walk in the Intensive Care Unit where Ronnie was, and I could just stand there they’d be working on Ronnie. You know there were several times I just walked in and I couldn’t get in there was so many doctors, and technicians, and nurses taking care of him. I mean he was hooked up to so many machines; he had 24 tubes coming into him. His abdomen was wide open for 12 days, and they just had a mesh over him. It was unbelievable he had this huge halo on, but I didn’t see Ronnie as he was laying there, I saw him as a well man; I saw him as what he is today. I didn’t look at what was there; I called things as though as they are today, not as they were that day.

Sid: Clarice you said you didn’t have a manual. I think you have one now. I think this book were making available called “Fighting Death and Other Desperate Battles” is a manual that I’d imagine would have helped a lot if you had this.

Clarice: I tell you it would have, but everything was happening so fast. I mean Ronnie was crashing, he was having a lot of problems. We were having to pray and intercede 24 hours a day. I never left the hospital for 52 days. From the day he came till the day he left I left with him.

Sid: But there must have been many times, because no matter how strong you were, you were pretty strong there, very strong there beyond normal. No I take it back, you were normal. (Laughing) There must have been moments where you said “Am I going crazy, or he’s not going to live.”

Clarice: There was one time, and my friend Sandy she is our church secretary, she and my other friend Barbara Campbell were with me 24 hours a day. I had an interceder with me, they interceded day and night. A prayer warrior that we were fighting for Ronnie’s life no matter what came up, but there was one morning about 3:00, we had fought and fought. They had one Code Blue after the other, and you know I was like “Lord you’ve gotta help me.” I went to the restroom there and the enemy come at me. He said “You’ve got to plan your husband’s funeral.” Oh I just knew and I just started hitting the walls with my fists so loud that I was screaming that I had to get that into my spirit that I had to get what he was saying to me out, and to get what…

Sid: Were out of time.

Sid:   We want everyone everywhere to stop being so dependent on self and dependent on you and be more like a little child, saying I absolutely trust you God I can’t do anything but in your name we will be victorious.  There is such a victory for those that surrender to God and when you hear my guest or even better read the book of Gary and Angel Wood; you see Gary died went to heaven and was sent back and he is accomplishing everything that Jesus told him to accomplish.  My guest Gary Wood tomorrow we’ll be talking to his daughter Angel who is a walking miracle.  And Gary Jesus told you that you were to do three things when you came back to earth, what were those three things?

Gary:  Well, I was to minister on the subject of restoration and He said that there would be a real Spirit of restoration that would prevail throughout the land.

Sid:  Now what does restoration mean to Jesus what does He mean?

Gary:  It means to build up again, to renew, to reestablish, to give back what’s been stolen or taken away from you.  And it means to restore it back to it’s original condition and He told me that it’s paid back for the devil and it’s payday for the church.  And He said, “Tell, My people that they don’t have a provision problem they just have a revelation problem.”  And He said, “Tell them that they can believe and get back what the devil has stolen from them.”  And He showed something real powerful in the book of James chapter 5 concerning this; it talks about rich men who have gathered their riches and they’ve saved them up for the last days.  And it talks about they gained this wealth through fraudulent means.  And Sid then it say something, in the original language that’s really interesting it says “This money that’s been fraudulently received through deceptive means by these rich mean is crying out.”  And the word there cry is cretso in the Greek.  Now here’s what it means; “To shriek, it means to scream with intensity.”  And here’s the picture, the picture is of when Jesus a Rabbi came walking through town as was customary in that time he would come teaching His followers would get around Him He would go to a synagogue and He would finish His teaching.  And you remember there was a blind man named Bartimaeus the Bible talks and He had heard about this blind eye opener, he cries out, he shrieks out this word says, screams out, “Jesus! Thou Son of David had mercy on me!”  And all the religious people go “Sh, sh be quiet but he doesn’t stop.” Okay the picture of this Sid is that money is crying out and shrieking and screaming just like blind Bartimaeus was crying and screaming to get Jesus’ attention.  And Jesus stopped right there and he got healed and that money it’s screaming out and here’s what its saying.  “I’m in the wrong place, I’m in darkness, I need to get out of darkness to Sid Roth’s Ministry, I need to get where I can reach the whole world with It’s Supernatural.”  And that’s what’s going to happen in this last days, and we’re to agree with what this scripture says, we need to cry out, I know that sounds, I know that sounds foolish, but I can give you many scriptures that verify exactly what I’m talking about.  John chapter 7 Jesus said, “If a man thirsts, He cried out and said, “If a man thirsts let him come, and drink of Me and He screamed it out with intensity.”

Sid:    So you are saying that the Lord told you that we should scream out for what is rightfully ours.

Gary:  Exactly, everyone that’s listening to me right now and myself have had money taken from us.

Sid:  Not just money, how about other arenas in family and in health, and in jobs.

Gary:  We could tough the whole area of life’s spectrum and we can scream out and that’s what that word means, it means to cry out and literally say “That’s in the wrong place, and see that’s all been prepared and kept there it says in that passage for the last days.”  Well, I believe we’re in the last days.

Sid:  Listen I know that we are suppose to have millions and I don’t mean a million, millions, millions and millions of dollars poured into this ministry and we’re supposed to take our television show “It’s Supernatural” and put it on secular television in every city in the United States and every city in the world.  It’s going to take millions, I know God wants us to have it, what should I be doing?

Gary:  Well, I would cry out to the top of my lungs and say “Jesus bring that money out of the kingdom of darkness over into my ministry.

Sid:  Jesus, “Bring that money out from the kingdom of darkness, into Messianic Vision and do it now!”

Gary:  Yes, it’s a cry out for your inheritance.  Now Dean and I did this we did this in our own ministry and the next day after we did this my wife called me on the phone, she went to the post office and she screaming and crying and she goes, “You’ll never believe it, you’ll never believe it!”  I said, “I will believe it, tell me what happened.”  She said, “We got a check and the man wrote a letter and said, “You touched me twenty years ago, we’ve been thinking about you, here we want to bless your ministry, $15,000.”

Sid:  Tell me the second thing Jesus told you to do as to why you were coming  back from heaven.

Gary:  He said that I was to teach on prayer.

Sid:  Listen, you have such insight in prayer in your book called “A Place Called Heaven” that if someone just reads your book I believe they’re going to get a picture of how prayer is suppose to operate.

Gary:  I believe that totally because He told me to pray “It is written.”  When you see Jesus you always see Him saying “It is written,” then you have the right to say, “It is finished.” We always spoke that and I saw over the earth evil spirits that were sent to deceive people and it was like a big swarm of flies but when people would pray on the earth and those demons were out there and they were lying, cheating, stealing demons getting people to commit adultery and say evil against one another all the terrorism.  I saw all those demonic forces and when people would pray those demons would just have to burst ascender and they would have to just have retreat from the prayer warriors that would send up the prayer in battle.

Sid:  Tell, me the third thing that Jesus commissioned you.

Gary:  He said, “That there would be supernatural release of miracles.”  I’ve seen blind eyes open, I’ve seen dead ears unstopped.

Sid:  In just your ministry or everyones; did He say that this would happen on planet earth to other people or just to you?

Gary:  Everybody that would believe and stand on His word and speak the word miracles were to start abounding in mass quantity.  I prayed for a lady one night in a service and the Holy Spirit told me to slap her in the face.  Now you better be sure when you do that the Holy Spirit’s told you or you’re going to get a lawsuit.  But when I did that the power of God touches her and she said, “You hit me on the opposite side of my jaw and knocked it back into place.”  And she said, “I had TMJ syndrome and you slapped me and she said now I’m perfectly whole.”  And that ladies name is Debra Pangent who was once asked by Elvis Presley to marry him.

Sid:  The movie star, she was in “The Ten Commandments.”

Gary:  Starred in “The Ten Commandment.”

Sid:  But okay, now the Lord also gave you ten specific signs to look for His return; how many of the ten have not taken place since He told you that?

Gary:  I can’t say that any of them have not taken place, I would have to say that everyone of them has.

Sid:  And what did He say when these ten signs take place He would return?

Gary:  He said He would return, I saw the golden trumpet that was setting on a beautiful stand and He said that it would be at that moment that Jesus would be sent forth to call His children home.

Sid:  So do you believe He’s returning in your lifetime?

Gary:  I believe it will all of my heart, I believe the only feast, I wouldn’t argue with anybody about this but the only feast Jesus didn’t fulfill was Rosh Hashana.  And I believe Jesus fulfilled all the feasts and I personally believe He’s going to fulfill that feast and He’s going to come  back in that time frame with all scripture that “No man knows the day the hour because as you know it takes over a period of time.  I just believe it, now if He comes back right now today or tomorrow I sure wouldn’t argue and I’d be…

Sid:  No, no, no I want them to get your book so they’ll be prepared for heaven and so they will rejoice and won’t sweat the small stuff.  And that you will be so excited when you read his book “A Place Called Heaven” and then Angels book she writes it with such childlike faith.  If you have anything that is dead in your life, that is hopeless, in your life, read angels book it’s called “Angel, a Walking Miracle.”….What feedback are you getting from people that read Angel’s book?  Angel was supposed to be a near vegetable not accomplish anything with her life, she was a university said “She was mentally retarded.”  What feedback are you getting?

Gary:  Well, we’re getting people telling us how they have faith explode in their heart and they believe if God can do that for Angel then He would do it for them.  When Angel prays for people they get healed in their minds.

Sid:  We’re going to have Angel on tomorrows broadcast, how about from Alzheimer’s?

Gary:  Absolutely she’s received a lot of requests and prayed for people in that area.

Sid:  You need not be ashamed with the atheistic education system that we have that with a country that won’t allow us to even post the Ten Commandments in government buildings and in schools.  And I am so concerned about the onslaught of within our education system and within our media to undermine the authenticity of the scriptures. That’s why I’ve asked my friend James Nienhuis to talk about his book “Old Earth Why Not?”  Because there are things that I personally took by faith, but I didn’t have the scientific evidence. This book would prepare anyone; as a matter of fact what about teachers, Christian teachers when these questions come up you would love to see his answers for the argument that the earth was started with a big bang, which caused the universe to be established billions of years ago. But Jim on yesterday’s show we were talking about the flood, and now let’s talk about the ark.  How in the world could we have so many animals and species and I mean the ark wasn’t big enough to have all of these animals, how would you explain that.

James:  Okay, before I broach that magnan… quote “magnanimous problem” let me cover one quick “magnanimous problem” also.  Noah’s flood did not cover the Himalaya Mountains rose at the close of the flood year.  Okay, that having been said, Noah’s Ark landed on the mountains of Ararat which are pillar basalts.  A lot much of it is pillar basalts and that’s a black lava rock that rises up through water; how do you like that Sid.

Sid:   They don’t teach that in high school and college I can tell you that. (laughing) I mean You would drive an atheistic professor nuts you know that Jim that’s why I want everyone to read your book.  So tell me about all those animals that fit in that little boat.

James:  Yes, and that the little boat 450’ long by 80’ wide by about 50 about the size of an ocean liner landed in the mountains of Ararat it doesn’t necessary say on Mt Ararat proper, it says in the mountains of Ararat.  So that’s a vast area of the eastern Turkey.  But that vessel had room to hold the 20,000 kinds of animals the Bible speaks, two of this kind, two of that kind, seven of a clean kind going on Noah’s Ark Biblical kinds.  Now the question is what is a kind in the Bible?  Well in modern scientific parlance it’s a syngameon, s-y-n-g-a-m-e-o-n, syngameon; that’s the biblical kind.  For instance a cat syngameon in the sense that, did you know this Sid lions and tigers and leopards can all inner breed to produce offspring.  Did you know that?

Sid:  No. (Laughing)

James:  Because they’re capable of that biologically that proves that they came from a common ancestor, it’s genetic variation within a syngameon or a biblical kind. Thereby only about 20,000 kinds of animals need have been on Noah’s Ark which would have only taken up half the volume of that Ark, about the size of an ocean liner.

Sid:    Now let me ask you a question, have you been coaching Bill O’Reilly or has he been coaching you on these words?  I’m just teaching, don’t…(laughing).

James:  Sid this is big I actually maybe I’m maybe I’m the first young earth creationist to discover this term in the high hierarchy of the esoteric of Darwinian biology, but it pulls the lid off the whole concept.  They have this term syngameon which explains why creatures from different “species” can inner bread and produce offspring. You know what that does to the viability of the term species according to Darwin Sid?  Species is thereby a meaningless term because different “species” can inner breed to produce offspring like the lion, the tiger, the leopard which proves they all came from a common ancestor.

Sid:  This is so fascinating and you know something I was reading in your book that I was also aware of changing the subject just a little bit.  But the Chinese language very few people are familiar that in the little letters of the Chinese language we literally have many of the stories found in Genesis.  Now if China is as old as they say it is how come those accounts were in its formation of its language?

James:  Oh absolutely,  we’ll Ham a son of Noah was undoubtedly a great navigator and he settled and his progeny settled much of the world, you know Shem settles mostly in western Asia and eastern Europe and Japheth settled mostly in Europe proper western Europe.  And Ham was a great navigator and he sailed to many locations and settled there including China. Cam, Cambodia; Cam or Kem as the Egyptians call him Kem or Cam Gulf of Cambay India; Cambodia southeast Asia; that’s Ham he was a great navigator also who was known as Chronos the time man because he could measure and map the earth by measuring the wobble of the  earth’s axis which is a whole another story.  But anyway the progeny of Ham settled in China obviously with knowledge of the ancient, not ancient at that time the stories about Noah’s Ark symbol for boat in the ancient Chinese pictographs is a concave form with eight dots in it.  How many people were on Noah’s ark?  Eight people, the ancient symbol for righteousness or righteous in the ancient Chinese pictographs is the symbol for I and that is me or you Sid under the pictograph for lamb; under the lamb, am righteous.

Sid:  Whoever wrote the Chinese alphabet knew or who ever created it knew all the accounts of Genesis even in a prophetic sense from what you’re telling me.

James:  Oh, absolutely you know and that a Messiah would come who would bruise the evil one.  You know that’s replete in ancient literature as well Osiris and Horus for instance of the ancient Egyptians, which is actually an analogy for the rotation of the planets.  The sun setting and rising everyday that’s a Sirus and Horas but that is what they were referring to a Savior who would; who all the ancients cultures were aware of this prophecy first thing in the Bible or in the early portions of Genesis.  See it’s all mankind and all the ancient tribes have a global flood legend as well; now why a global flood legend?  Why not a global fire legend or why not a global you know hurricane legend?  Why did they all have a global flood legend?  It’s more than coincidence.

Sid:  How old is the earth?

James:  Oh, roughly 6,000 years old.

Sid:  How can you say that with all this scientific evidence showing that things are much older?

James:   Well, when you understand that the Dane methods are flawed and based upon ennoble predisposition; such as what the original chemistry of the rock was.  They don’t know what the original chemistry of the rock was; which is a presupposition of the Dane method, but they don’t know that.

Sid:  So is it the blind leading the blind?

James:  Absolutely, they say the composition of the rock when the rock was formed is what they want it to be.  Now if you want to call that science go ahead and call that science.  Now couple that with the sedimentary stadia for the sedimentary layers; vast sedimentary layers with billions of creatures in tombed therein from a flood forming the fossils which we see today 99% of which are marine creatures up on the continents explain that one.  So you couple that the geology speaks of catastrophe with the fact that the Dane methods are seriously flawed and based upon ennoble precepts and presuppositions.

Sid:  But wait a second when I went to Kenya I saw the Leakey Museum and this Leakey Museum they have monkey’s going back millions of years.

James:   Really.

Sid:  Well, that’s what the museum curator told me.

James:  But there’s no evidence of it except the radioisotope days which are flawed and based upon ennoble precipitations, for instance sometimes rock dates come in with positive values like I said before.  Now what kind of science is that?

Sid:  Well, why doesn’t the scientists realize what your book shows in such simple form?

James:   Well, if they acknowledge that the geologic column is obviously caused by a catastrophe which caused all the disposition of all those eroded sediments stacked like pancakes on the continent .  If they admit that that obviously is the case, then they are doomed to say “Well, the Bible is right all along.”  And then we’d have some serious altar calls at Yale and Harvard and Princeton and the whole bit and I think that they probably don’t want to see that Sid.  The way they’re faking it now anyway.

Sid:  And the thing I see you actually have an ulterior motive and your ulterior motive in this book is after, you explain and you just knock the socks off of these scientists that are trying to disprove the accounts in the book of Genesis.  After you explain it you’ve got a very very interesting chapter in here and the title is “Jesus was just a Wise and Good man.”  And these are myths that you’re disclaiming, but you take someone through to salvation, is that really the intent of the book.

James:  Absolutely, you know God provided me sufficient faith to become born again to burn through all the Darwinian junk that I had learned and still become born again.  But imagine how easy it would be for a guy who says “My goodness Genesis really does look like an accurate history book?”  Then how much easier would it be to act on the faith that God gives everyone?

Sid:  You know I was raised in a Jewish background. As a young boy I remember my folks were out late at night and the though popped in my mind “What happens when you die,” and since although Judaism believes in life after death we don’t discuss it, it’s l’Chayim, it’s a language of the living.  And so therefore as a child since it was never discussed with me when the question popped in my mind “What happens when you die.” I gave the answer the answer was you cease to exist and it was such a scary thought that I blocked it from my mind, whatever was me I did not want it to cease to exist until many years later.  You know I went to almost thirty years of life in “Christian America.” Broker of Merrell Lynch, many Christian clients, graduated from a Christian University and not one Christian cared enough about me to an answer my question, “What happens after you die?”  Well, just before I almost lost my life one bold Christian was ready to do it, I’m speaking to you today.  Imagine how many people you know that don’t know God that are crossing your path. I remember as I said “I was a stock broker in Merrill Lynch,” and I became very public as a Jewish believer in Jesus and there was a front page article in a major newspaper in Washington, DC and one of my clients called me up and said, ‘Sid we’re so glad to hear that you’re now a believer in Jesus.”  And I’m thinking to myself, I almost died and you are my client all these years and you never told me about Jesus.  Well I have interviewed so many people over the years now that have literally had out of body experiences encounters with God; encounters with Heaven; encounters with eternity; encounters with Hell. The best ones that I have over the years I have put together in 10 testimonies of 9 different people in two CD’s.  We call it “Life After Death” and I want you to hear excerpts of them and then I want you to get the full stories, listen to them yourselves, there can’t be anything more fascinating than listening to what will happen with you in eternity, assuming Jesus is your Messiah and Lord. Then start giving them to friends.

Sid:  My next guest had one of the most vivid experienced in Heaven, he died from an auto accident and while he was in Heaven I mean he just documented so many things, but the thing that gets me so excited is that Jesus said, “I’m sending you back to be a herald of my soon return.”  And I don’t know about you but everything going on in this life, everything going on in this world I believe that we are so close to the return of Jesus that you got to get just one of the most vivid glimpses of Heaven from Richard Sigmund.

Tell me your experience with Jesus.

Richard Sigmund:  Oh, the most awesome experience, I saw Jesus.  I saw him at the throne, I saw Him in the throne.  Around the Being that I saw on a throne in Heaven the closer the get to this throne the more everything becomes absolutely transparent.  Those things closest to God are absolutely transparent with purity.  And I saw Jesus walk up to the throne and disappear into this enfolding beautiful fire that surrounded the being in the throne.  I was not allowed to see Him, I did see His foot, I did see His toe, it looked to be about the state of Kentucky.  He’s a big God, Jesus walked in and out of that Shekinah Glory. He came out on a platform and He said “I am coming back for My people.”  And it was awesome, it was awesome, I also saw Him many times in Heaven talking to people, hugging people, loving people, children would run to Him, He is the center of attention.  And when He is about to come to you people stand at attention, very reverently.

Sid:  What did He speak to you?

Richard Sigmund:  He took me to an area where He said, “I must take you to the rose garden,” and instantly we were there. He at first had me set and He stood and talked to me and said, “I must tell you that I am coming back for my people” and I remember saying, “But they know that.”  And He said,  “No, they know it but they don’t know it, they are asleep, they are at ease, they think it’s way off in the future but it’s not,” He said “I’m coming back like a thief in the night but I am coming. I am coming back at a time when revival will break on the shores of eternity, the greatest revivals the world have ever known, the greatest revival.”  He said, “I’m sending you back to herald My return. I am coming back for people that make themselves ready, that lay aside every sin that does so easily beset and get their eyes totally upon Me; I Am the Way, I Am the Truth and I am the light.”  And as He said that it was just like all Heaven joined in and said, “Amen, glory to God!”

Sid:  Now, by the way, have you gotten any insight on the rapture, have you ever seen it?

Richard Sigmund:  Yes Sir, in a vision actually I think it was more than one vision. I saw the rapture take place, what we call the rapture, the great catching away.  Suddenly, just suddenly in a twinkling, faster than you can think so I just tell, this is a twinkling of an eye is one eleven thousands of a second, it’s the time that takes the nerve impulses to go across your eye to your brain and register; faster than that.  The rapture takes place, instantly people were taken out of the sleep, out of their slumber, taken out of automobiles going down the street, taking out of airplanes, instantly it was done, it was over, and we were together there in a meeting in the clouds of the air, instantly people were stunned they didn’t know that they were doing.  Instantly they had to stop and think well, what’s going on and what is this and suddenly you knew we’re gone.

Sid: Now, the Bible tells us Richard no one knows the day or the hour but it says we’ll know the season.  Do you believe we’re in the season of His return?

Richard Sigmund:  I believe more than anything in this life that we are in the season of His return.

Sid:  I have on the telephone Reverend Ron Reagan, Pastor of the Church of God in Townsend, Tennessee and in 1972 he had an experience with the invisible world that He’ll never forget.

Reverend Reagen:  It was like I had the sensation of the ambulance exploding like it just exploded in flames. Just in moments I was moving through the air, through the smoke almost like a tunnel.

Sid:  And you like left your body would you say?

Reverend Reagen:  Well, evidently that’s what happened at the time I didn’t know what was happening, I had the sensation of moving through the air.

Sid:  Okay, what happened next.

Reverend Reagen:  The next moments when I came out of the smoke when I was looking down into what appeared to me an active volcano. A huge large place and where the burning lake down inside it and I could hear multitudes of voices screaming and see multitudes of people inside this.  And just almost immediately I was going down into this myself and people’s faces begin to appear to me, close up, like a lens on a camera and to my just horror I begin to recognize some of them.  And I could hear them screaming Ronnie, don’t come to this place, there’s no way out there’s no escape there’s no way out.  And these people that I recognized were people that I recognized that all died violent deaths. We had partied together, we had done crime together, we had drank together but all of these t hat I recognized had been shot to death, had died of overdoses or some form of tragedy. They screamed and looked at me and said, “There is no way out, there is no escape.”

Sid:  Were these people from what you could see in real pain?

Reverend Reagen:  These people were in the most horrible agonizing pain that you could imagine. It went deeper than physical fleshly pain, what I was feeling the worst pain was the horrible atmosphere of loneliness, and anxiety, and depression, and horrible feeling in the air or just no hope what so ever.

Sid:  I have David Herzog on the telephone, and David is known as a Jewish believer that walks in the glory of God.  And I want to find out from him exactly what the glory of God is, how the glory of God operates and how he learned this.  I’m going to take you back to age thirteen David and you went to a youth camp, a Spirit filled youth camp.  And now were you prayed for to speak in supernatural languages or did it just happen?

David:  It just happened I was supposed to be prayed for I was waiting in a very long line of hundreds of people to make my way to the front where they pray for you. Before I got there it had already hit me, this warmth came on me, this love, I just felt peace, and I started crying a little bit and then all of a sudden I started speaking in tongues.  I had no idea how that was going to happen it just happened and then I saw that vision.  I was taken up to Heaven; I saw Jesus and the Father, and then a voice came and said, “You’re going to travel, you’re going to travel, you’re going to travel around the world.”  So at that I had a little bit inkling, I said “Okay, so I’m going to travel,” so that I know and went into my room and I couldn’t stop speaking in tongues all night just getting these visions.

Sid:  Just out of curiosity I assume you didn’t want to but did you actually try to stop?

David:  Not really it felt so good you know when you’re thirteen and your feeling great.

Sid:  But how’s a thirteen year old pray in tongues all night, that had to be highly unusual thing.

David:  It was but it was really, really powerful but that night a lot of people got the Holy Spirit it was just amazing.  I’d always wanted to receive it for three years since I was saved, didn’t know how or what, and finally went to a place where I could get it and it was just.  And my boldness changed, I used to be shy and suddenly this boldness came on me that I never had before with people, with everything; it affected everything.

Sid:  Now you literally were caught up into the throne room and it was a number of years ago, but what did you see, I’d be very curious to know?

David:  I saw, basically two seats where I was, I saw Jesus at the right hand and I saw the Father, I couldn’t make out clearly because it was so bright, the Father but I knew that was Jesus on the right side.  And basically Jesus was smiling at me and a voice just came and said, “You’re going to travel for My glory, you are going to travel.”  And I was just worshipping and “I love You God and I love You Jesus and I worship You and just tongues, tongues, tongues for hours.”

Sid:  Interesting, God knew what He was saying, you didn’t have a clue “You’re going to travel for His glory and you’re known as someone that when you speak the glory of God shows up.”  But you didn’t have a clue back then.  Tell me the first miracle that happened when you prayed for someone that you can remember.

David:  Yeah, I was in Sunday school and they asked me to teach this little curriculum in our Sunday school in our little town in Sedona. So I would go through little thing and read the scriptures they tell me to read for the kids and I got bored, actually got bored doing this every Sunday.  So I said “Kids don’t tell the Pastor but I’m going to try something different, I’m not going to follow the curriculum I’m just going to pray for anyone that’s sick.”  And a little girl said, “Oh, my Mom said I have scoliosis.”  And so I said, “Let me see, let’s pull out your leg and see how short it is,” because I had seen one time someone come and do this and her leg was so much shorter than the other.”  I said, “Okay, we’re going to pray guys are you ready?”  And I missed my first miracle because I closed my eyes and her leg began to grow so fast the kids were screaming, “Look at the leg, look at the leg!”  And her leg grew out and I missed seeing my first miracle with my own eyes.

Sid:  But what happened to her scoliosis?

David:  It was gone, I mean her leg grew out and she didn’t have a problem after that.

Sid:  What a way to start!  You know how I started?  I prayed for hundreds, if not thousands of people and no one got healed, I sure wish I had started the way you did!

David:  I guess I needed the encouragement for being so young you know.

Sid:  Well, let’s go back to basics; the glory shows up when you speak, explain what the glory is.

David:  The glory is the closes you can get to being like as if you went to Heaven while still being on the earth.  You’re in a meeting and you feel this incredible heavenly presence, joy, peace, love, you can feel the angels are there.  Your just like “Awe, this is heaven on earth” and in that realm that’s when things happen so easily.   I always say “On earth as it is in Heaven” if you were sick and you went to Heaven right now, how long would it take to be healed?  It would be instant because in Heaven there’s no sickness; so when heaven comes down on the earth in a meeting or just walking down the street and you pray for somebody the speed at which miracles happen in the glory realm is much faster than they would happen just in regular gifting realm.  You have your gift and anointing, you have faith but when you add glory to it glory is the accelerator.  Demons come out faster; body are healed faster, you sow and reap faster, everything’s faster when it’s done in the presence of God’s glory.

Sid:  Now is this just a pure gift from God or are there something’s that you’ve learned that people can do to walk in that same glory realm?

David:  Oh no, everyone can do this it’s God gave me a revelation of how it operates and when I’ve taught this to other people I’ve had little kids doing it.  One time I was in Ireland, miracles, signs and wonders were flowing and I taught these youth, youth and college age and everything I knew how to do it and when that thing was over it spread all over Ireland and started in healings and miracles and signs, wonders and everything you can think of started happening.

Sid:  When was the first time you’re aware of the fact that when you would speak this manifests tangible presence, thickness, weightiness of God’s presence would show up His glory?

David:   The first time that happened?  Wow, that’s a tough one to think, going back I know that it changed when my intimacy with God changed, it wasn’t just…

Sid:  Alright, well that’s important to know, tell me when that was and what you did to cause it to change or what occurred.

David:  I was living on the mission field in France for twelve years and we had seen you know, I had the gift of faith, I had the gift of healing.  I prayed one on one and I say right now this man will be healed if he doesn’t get healed then God is not God.  And God would heal, but I was getting burned out and I said, “Lord there’s got to me more.”

Sid:  Oh, I’m sorry you’re triggering another question, when you would make such a bold statement were there times when people were not healed?

David:  Amazingly enough I would only do it when I felt led to do it and when I did it it always worked, but I would never do it carelessly.

Sid:    But even if you heard did you have a degree of trepidation when you have a room full of people that could become a mob against you?

David:  Oh, big time I would say “Lord, every time I did it I’d say “Oh my gosh, I think I went out too far on a limb this time, Lord you got to bail me out of this one.”  But God would show up, but sometimes it would be really scary.

Sid:  Okay, alright you were telling me what was happening in France.

David:  Yes, and so I was just desperate, I said “God there’s got to be more, I mean we’re winning people, but not at the rate that we need; I need to see more of Your glory, more of Your power.”  And so basically I took off some time and I just began to fast and pray and I just stopped preaching for awhile, stopped ministering, and I said “Lord if you don’t touch me with something new I’ll come up there and get it, but I don’t want to minister anymore.”  So I just stopped ministering, I just stopped taking, I just locked myself in for a couple months.  Three weeks of those months I was fasting and praying, just seeking God and during that time worshipping and fasting and praying and something, something came on me.  And then sure enough after that time we had I think we took six weeks off and the Lord told me those six weeks that you took off to seek My face led to the six month revival that you had in Paris, France the longest running revival in fifty years.

Sid:  Now, now for those that aren’t familiar, Paris, France is not known for being a real open spiritual place, in fact it’s known as a graveyard.  What happened in Paris?

David:  In Paris, France I told the church to do like what I did, I said, “Okay I’ll come but I want you to do a fasting and prayer chain forty days.  Because when you fast something happens in the Heavenlies like Daniel you know, the angel came and ministered,” and so I had them do that.  I was praying preparing myself and then by the time we showed up the Heavens exploded so powerfully, people ran to the altars to be saved, healings and miracles, signs and wonders flow like honey and a girl was picked up off of the ground some will call it she levitated but we’ll use the Christian term she arose, arise and shine.  She was picked up off the ground in mid air about thirteen, I guess someone measured it, they said that it was about thirteen centimeters in the air, flipped over still in the air and came back down to the ground and she was interceding for souls, she was an intercessor kind of heavyweight girl too.  And the people around were freaked out when they saw it, but it was at that moment that the glory came and all of a sudden all these people that had suicidal spirits started screaming and getting delivered, and so it was amazing.  Girl’s being lifted up…

Sid:  You know what’s coming to me as you’re saying that David, that’s a foretaste of the Messiah says that when He returns He’ll return to same way He came.  How did that, the same way that He left, He left by going up in the air in a cloud and I believe we’re going to be seeing more and more people; even people flying in front of other people, not just dreams.

David:  I have dreams of that all the time, I can’t wait.

Sid:  Well, it’s going to happen, I believe that it’s going to happen that’s why you’re having those dreams.  But tell me the feedback of your revised book “Glory Invasion,” what do people comment, is there on particular chapter that people say “Boy that revolutionized my life!”

David:  Oh while, there’s different chapters that they love, they love the first few chapters because what happens is I use vocabulary to explain how God’s glory moves.

Sid:  I have to tell you when I read that it didn’t cause me to believe any more than I believe, but it did give me understanding of what I believe.

David:  Yeah, it gives you revelation for instance if you’re praying for let’s say a body part to be recreated and you don’t know how to pray, normally you just say “Oh, Lord please do this.”  But when you have the revelation you get in the glory and you realize in the book I explain that everything created has atoms and protons and neutrons inside that it’s sound waves that God put sound into everything; this is confirmed by science.  And those sound waves God put in Genesis He put sound and you command the body part modes come together, cancer die, I know you can hear me because you’re made of atoms and inside the atoms there’s sound and I know that you can hear me.  So you’re going straight to the chase, straight to the body part like Moses spoke to the rock or God told him to anyway.  Ezekiel spoke to the bones and they came together, Jesus spoke to wind and waves; but once you understand behind the scenes what’s going on it actually helps your faith to go wait a second I can speak to body parts and they can actually hear me.

Sid:  David, were out of time right now.

Sid:  I have a good friend of mine that I’ve ministered with many times over the years his name is David Herzog; when I think of David Herzog I think Jewish, love for the Jew in Israel; the glory of God.  And you know David I’m having the thought I believe it’s in Romans 9 it says “We owe a debt of gratitude to the Jewish people,” and then it lists a number of reasons.  And one of the reasons it says “Of them is the glory,” have you ever pondered on that?

David:  Yeah, I believe the Jews have somehow in their DNA a realm of the glory of God that comes out; because in our DNA is the record of everything that our ancestors did good and bad, and they have a record in their history and bloodline of the glory.  Their bloodline has been impacted by the glory of God probably more than other race.

Sid:  But I still feel that there is kind of like a comingling of the glory on a Gentile Christian, and the glory on a Jewish believer in Jesus and then the two; and it’s like the two are incomplete until the two are comingled to make a full dwelling place of God by His Spirit, or as Jesus said “You’ll do the same works I have done; when  he talked to the Jewish believers, and He said, “Greater,” looking forward to the time there’d be this comingling of this spiritual DNA of the Jew and the Gentile.

David:  I totally agree with you in fact I notice Jewish people that minister that when they go to other countries or go to other races they see the most incredible, incredible things.  Lately He gave me a similar revelation of what you just said and okay a couple of years ago He told me that now I want you as a Jewish person go the Arabs; when those two mingle together it really will explode and the fruit will be awesome.  I started going to Muslim countries being Jewish, and I saw just different harvests, different levels of glory that I wouldn’t see anywhere else.

Sid:  Well, I happen to believe the greatest representation of the one new man on planet earth today is a Jew and a Muslim, one new creation, one new man; one new being in Jesus.

David:  Amen.

Sid:  Okay David, I want to take you back for those especially aren’t that familiar with you back around Bar mitzvah time age time age thirteen. You had an encounter in the spirit realm that changed your life forever.  Tell me about that.

David:  It was amazing I was at the Assemblies of God youth camp in Arizona, Prescott Arizona. They said, “If you want the Holy Spirit come on up.”  So there’s a big big line and you wait in line and you make the way towards the altar and they pray for you and things happen.  And as I was waiting to get to the front the guy in front of me already speaking in tongues and weren’t even half way up there and he starts crying and weeping.  And I didn’t know what it was so I said, I’m only thirteen and my friend is crying and he’s a guy right, and I said “Are you okay, does it hurt? What does it feel like?  Is it painful?  I had no idea.  He said, “No, no it’s wonderful.”  And I said “Well, why are you crying?” I couldn’t understand so I just lifted my hands just waiting for it and soon enough the power of God hit me; it was like a warmth that went all over my body and I started speaking in tongues before they even prayed for me.  And then instantly I was taken up to Heaven and I was taken to the throne.

Sid:  Now before that point, I’m just curious; before that point had you ever had something where God literally came upon you in a tangible fashion like that?

David:  No, because I got saved at ten years old and I kept questioning my salvation I said “There’s got to be more than this, this is good but how come I don’t have power?”  And of course I was living in a town where there was a lot of New Age people that claim to levitate and do all these things.  So I was telling my mother, “Mom, there’s got to be more, how come they have that and we have no power?”  I would ask my Sunday School teacher, I would get in trouble.

Sid:    You know that’s an honest fair question and I think more Christians have to ask that question, “Why do so many New Agers move in power and so many Christians are fighting the devil with both arms tied behind their back because they’re more interested in tradition then the word of God.”

David:  Exactly and I got my Sunday school teacher upset with me because he said that I was bothering the class by asking those kind of questions.  It wasn’t a Spirit Filled church at the time and they called my mom and told me that your son is asking questions that are bothersome; just tell him he’s saved and that’s it.  So we changed churches and eventually went to that youth camp and it changed my life.

Sid:  Alright, what happened, I’m really curious because I see how you are today; I see what you’re doing today, but that is the beginning and I want to trace how you got to be walking in what I consider some of the most outrageous miracles on the planet.  I mean I got a report that you were recently at a meeting and a friend of mine was at the same meeting, and he literally saw someone with gray hair, their hair changed color on the spot.  But you even are involved in more outrageous things than that; you have people without hair that when the glory invades hair starts growing; in fact your own father that happened to.

David:  Yeah, it did; that was in Denver revival we had in ’08, but even last week the one that you’re mentioning there was another man also in that meeting that had bald hair and his hair began to grow also up there in Moravian a week ago.

Sid:  Okay, I’m going to go back to my question I have not forgotten it about that experience David had, but I want your opinion on something.  When the glory hits, because I’ve been at your meetings and I’ve seen this; when the glory hits and you proclaim what the Spirit God is telling you these things happen.  Why does it happen for some people and not for all?  What is your explanation?

David:  Why does some people receive miracles or why does some…

Sid:  Yeah, why when the glory is there and you proclaim that word and they all look like they’re believing to me as I look around; why is it that some get their miracles but the majority don’t get their gray hair turned brown, their bald head their hair growing?  What is the common denominator or is there a common denominator; I don’t know?

David:  That’s an interesting question; well I notice two patterns.  There is either the people when they testify will say, like when the lose thirty pounds in a meeting; we’ve seen weight lose and they said, “I was expecting all week long, I brought my smaller jeans from school and I got my miracle.”  So you have those that are very, very desperate full of faith.  Then I see the others that like the guy who had the white hair he didn’t believe it; he wasn’t even there to get a miracle.

Sid:  Well, that’s outrageously unfair, the guy didn’t have any faith, (laughing.)

David:  I think I noticed a difference, to some of these signs and wonders God will put for the unbeliever; I’ve seen atheist get gold teeth in France that complete don’t believe God exists.  And so I’ve noticed that God will use signs and wonders to win the lost that don’t know him or for believers, I’ve noticed when they are really full of faith and desperate, more of those kind of Christians are getting the miracles and the ones that have almost no faith at all because this man that got his, he’s a doctor so his mind is trained to not believe, and he’s also an ambassador to another country.  So he kept saying “Are you sure this is happening, is this really happening?  And the whole crowd was screaming , “Look at your hair!”

Sid:  You know what amazes me and it’s right in line with what you’re saying David?  The people that have a major miracle happen I hear many of them say “I knew when I would come to this meeting, I’d be healed.”  I don’t hear them say, “I was really believing for it,” they say “I knew I was going to be,” that’s faith.

David:  Yeah, that’s what I’ve noticed in the ‘50’s revivals people would come from across the country to go to these tent meetings and just knew that they were going to get healed, the ones that got healed.  And then you’ve got the unbelievers or the Christians that never really had faith for miracles and God will use the signs…

Sid:  Or the Christians that have been in the way for thirty years, and I do mean in the way, for thirty years and not seen anything, they believe, they know God heals, they’ve seen enough miracles, but they’re in unbelief and they don’t even realize they’re in unbelief.

David:  Sometimes they’ve been vaccinated against it because they’ve seen so much of it.  I was in London, it was a 1500 people and an atheist man got out of his wheelchair paralyzed and started running.  And at the end of meeting a Christian came to me and said, “Oh, when are you going to pray for my goiter?”  It was like midnight at about that time, I said, “I called that out, why didn’t you come up with God was moving?  Oh, I don’t know I decided to wait to after I’d meet you at the door when you leave the room.”  And I said, “I can pray for you now but you should have came when the glory was at the peak when everybody was getting healed.”

Sid:  Yeah, people don’t understand but one of the things, one thing that David does, and I’m sure the Holy Spirit showed him to do it is when the glory invades, and he starts hearing what God wants to do in the midst of the glory he speaks it out.  And then he tells people to run around the auditorium, I mean you don’t have to run like a track star, but you kind of run and what you’re doing it’s obvious to me David is your getting an action behind the faith.

David:  Exactly just some kind of action, most of time Jesus, Yeshua would say “Oh, do this, do that, go wash your eyes, pick up your bed and walk,” most of the time there was an action.  Now you don’t have to do that but I noticed the percentage of miracles go up to like 100% or 80% when I get everybody doing something than just everybody just sitting there waiting for me to make it happen on them.

Sid:  Alright David, on tomorrow’s broadcast I want to start out what happened when you were thirteen years of age, you spoke in tongues, but something way beyond that happened.  You went up to the throne room, but tell me about your book “Glory Invasion” this is the revised version which has this marvelous forty day devotional in it.  But tell me what feedback you’re getting from your book “Glory Invasion.”

David:  Oh, people are reading the book, first of all they’re not just reading it and learning, they’re getting Heavenly encounters they tell me.  I have people reading the book and getting taken to Heaven, getting signs and wonders.  I have ministers reading the book and suddenly when they go minister they understand how to move in creative miracles; how to work with the angels; just people reading, one lady read the book, she was on your show actually before she was in full time ministry.  She read the book, came to my meeting in Phoenix, didn’t know how to pray for her mom in a wheelchair and then when she read the book, she goes “Awe now I know how to pray; I get in the glory the body parts can obey my word, they hear me, spoke to her mom and she jumped out of the wheelchair.”  I think it was Katy Soza that was in our meeting and then later I hear about her traveling and ministering.  But she came to that meeting.  Years ago she took a Greyhound bus and came all the way to Phoenix.

Sid:  She was hungry!  You know David, you know what I love about it is that you teach about how the financial miracles increase in the glory.  How the healing miracles increase in the glory, how creative miracles increase in the glory; how to be a carrier of the glory; how to remove the limits in your life to operate in the glory; how to pray from your heavenly seat, which is an amazing revelation.  And so many people are moving in the glory after reading this book and we have a special bonus of two CD’s in which you speak the blessings of the glory over people.

SID: I am amazed at the revelation that God has given my guest, Walid Shoebat. I’m absolutely overwhelmed. I have to ask you this question. Most Christians in the West have read the Left Behind series, Hal Lindsey books, Dallas Theological Seminary, and they have ABC, this is what’s going to happen in the End Times. When you talk before a group of people that have that whole scenario inside and that’s the way it’s going to happen, it’s like a photograph, how do you change their mindset?

WALID: I go to book stores galore. I go to the airport all the time and I see all the books, fiction, fiction, fiction, fiction, as long as the eye can see. Then you have history and some. But it’s fiction. I mean, even Hal Lindsey, everybody knows Hal Lindsey would know this is fiction. It’s Christian fiction. The Christian fiction becomes the issue. It’s very easy for me to convert the Christian fiction prophecy paradigm into biblical prophecy, in real biblical prophecy. And that is once we look at the literal references in the Bible, just the literal references, let’s put Daniel aside, let’s put Revelation aside, this is filled with allegory.

SID: If you could ask a couple of questions of these people what would you ask them?

WALID: Question number one, which no one in the world can answer really. Question number one, out of all the literal references in the Bible, not the allegory, every literal country mentioned in the Bible that God deals with in the End Times, what are they? No one can tell me they are not Muslim. Every single one of them is Muslim. I know people can argue over God [unintelligible].

SID: But wait a second. Where did we get this whole European Union thing?

WALID: Well in the ’70s.

SID: The ’70s?

WALID: Yeah. Hal Lindsey and Tim LeHaye, and all these guys made it possible. Greece joined as the tenth nation in the European Confederacy. We got the 10 horns, we got the 10 toes. So then another nation joined, 11, 12, all the way to 20, 20-some nations joined the European Union. So you got Daniel, Chapter 2, with the statue of Daniel, the Book of Nasser’s dream, 10 toes. You have 23, 24 toes. All of them are protruding out of the West. One foot has got 20-some toes, the western leg, and the eastern leg is chopped off. So I go to churches and I speak to pastors, and I speak to the congregation, and I challenge the pastors. I say, okay, you believe in a revival of a Roman empire. We’re fighting over semantics really. Because when I say the Islamic world, they say, on no, it’s the revolving of a Roman empire. It can’t be the Muslim world. I say, okay, we’re fighting over semantics. The Roman Empire didn’t include North Africa. No one can deny it. Yes. What country is included in North Africa? Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Mauritania. What happened in Libya lately? I’ve been saying this 15 years. I’ve been talking about this Arab Spring 15 years ago, from the Bible. What happens in Egypt? Will that be part of the Roman Empire? Will I have to include them? Of course. They’re part of the Roman Empire. What about Turkey? Was that part of the Roman Empire? Well that’s the eastern leg. Of course I have to include it. Okay. So what’s left? Europe. Well we can argue over Europe, but there isn’t a single reference in the Bible where God punishes a European nation. Show me where. Rome is mentioned 16 times, some in blessing in fact, to the believers in Rome. But there is no destruction of Rome in the Bible literally by name. We’re going to say mystery of Babylon. That’s a whole different question. But there is no other references. Out of all the nations, Messiah fights, every nation Messiah fights in the Bible, every single one of them is Muslim.

SID: So okay. So let’s take a look at a different paradigm. What do you believe the Mark of the Beast, 666, is?

WALID: Well we have to understand from the Book of Revelation in Chapter 13, the mark is the number of his name. We have to think of the name of the beast. People in the West think name of the beast, what would it be? On the foreheads of the followers of the Antichrist it might say something like, “Hilary Rodham Clinton” or some name.

SID: No, no, no, don’t say that.

WALID: No, it’s not a literal name. It has nothing to do with a literal western name. Look at the Messiah. We interpret the Bible from the Bible. The Messiah’s name, what is his name? “His name shall be called Emanuel,” which is what? “God with us.” His name is not Emanuel. He’s not Mexican. He is from Bethlehem. His name shall be called Emanuel, which is God with us. This God with us is what? A title. It’s our what? A creed. Our creed is what? God with us. Only one faith in the world has God with us. In the same essence, the name of the beast, what is it? The creed of the beast. They have a creed. The kingdom of the Antichrist has a creed. It’s a blasphemous creed.

SID: What is it?

WALID: The major creed of Islam is what? I declare there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger. America, you want peace with Islam? You all must recite, “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.” Will you be willing to recite this, Sid? Of course not. Why? Number one, you’re an American, no one tells you what to do. Number two, who is Allah? That is not the God of the Bible.

SID: So you believe the Mark of the Beast is the creed.

WALID: The creed. If you look at the movie, “The Kingdom of Heaven”, let’s say. Go watch the movie. “The Kingdom of Heaven”, watch Saladin. Saladin was the figure, the Muslim guy who was fighting against the Crusades. Look at him sitting in the tent. What does he have around his arm? He has around his arm “Bismillah”, in the name of Allah.

SID: On the forehead, too.

WALID: On the forehead as well.

SID: The bandana around the Palestinians?

WALID: Absolutely. Not just Palestinians. Turks, Muslims in Africa.

SID: What’s the mark on the bandana?

WALID: It says, “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.” It says, “In the name of Allah” sometimes, Bismillah. If you look at that movie I mentioned on the right arm is “Bismillah”.

SID: And what does 666 mean?

WALID: Well if you look at the Greek, there’s three Greek letters. No one can deny they’re Greek. But they also, for some miraculous reason, supernatural reason that I cannot fathom, it also reads in the Arabic language. In fact, none of my detractors denied that it does say “Bismillah” in the Greek letters.

SID: Which means?

WALID: “In the name of Allah.”

SID: So 666, the Mark of the Beast, is on the forehead or the arm, the name of Allah.

WALID: In the Greek it reads it that way.

SID: Wait until you find out what he has to say the Bible shows us in reference to Allah and the crescent moon. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back.

[Arabic]

SID: Walid Shoebat is an ex-Muslim terrorist who reveals the End Time scenario being played out right now in the Middle East with Egypt electing a radical Muslim as president, whose followers proclaim a new United States of Islam will be in the Middle East, and says that their capitol will be Jerusalem.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I just hope that you can breathe in the rarified air of Heaven because wherever that air is there’s healing. It’s a river and there is a river in this studio. I know that your whole paradigm for End Times is about to be turned upside down. Why? Because you have been instructed man’s opinion from the West, his understanding of End Time Bible prophecy. What if you looked through the lens from the East where the Bible was originally written. You would have an entirely different End Time perspective. But here is the thing I want to caution you, and I want to warn you. Study the scriptures, show yourself approved and think for yourself. I can’t wait for you to hear this interview. I have a guest that in his wildest imagination he never thought he would be sitting opposite a Jewish man and loving him. Why? He was born in a city that you’re very familiar with, Bethlehem, as Micah says, Bethlehem of Judea, and he was raised to hate the Jew. He was raised to be a terrorist bomber. He actually released a bomb, I believe it was in Bethlehem. You wanted to kill Jewish people. And the thing that I find very, very interesting is you came to the United States and you were with an organization that was a forerunner of groups that we hear in the news all the time, a forerunner of Hamas, Al Queda, the Muslim Brotherhood. I mean, we hear this in the news all the time. A lot of the Middle East countries, their new freedom is allowing them to vote, and many are getting into office from the Muslim Brotherhood. What were you taught by this organization in America? Why were you part of it?

WALID: You said it. I wanted to kill Jews in America. We were planning for Jihad in America for destruction, mayhem and all kinds of things. What part of kill Americans don’t get? The Council of American-Islamic Relation that says we are a peaceful entity was born from the IAP, Islamic Association of Palestine, branch Hamas in the U.S. Hamas was active in the U.S. My mentor, Jamal Sareed, he was a colleague of Abdul Azam. Most Americans don’t understand. I say those names like Abdul Azam. Abdul Azam was the godfather of Al Queda. Most Americans don’t know that real godfather of Al Queda was not a Saudi. He was a Palestinian from Jenin.

SID: Let me ask you about this Muslim Brotherhood, because they seem to be winning a lot in the elections in these new democracies in the Middle East.

WALID: Of course.

SID: They appear, I mean, they’re accepted in the United States on our television, in the White House. Are they kind of peace loving as opposed to radical?

WALID: They’re absolutely radical. There is no such thing as peace loving Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood is the umbrella organization that gave birth to all Islam terrorism.

SID: I know, but they appear to be peace loving.

WALID: Well they play the flowchart, there is a very simple flowchart. During an uprising, the people uprise, the governments begin to clamp down on the uprising. Then the media goes there and they get the film from CNN, BBC and all these things. Then they begin to call for democracy and then of course what better word to use for the West. We want democracy. And the West is happy to think, well wait a minute, maybe what we are having here is Islamic democracy. So Islamic democracy is like saying capitalistic communism. It doesn’t exist. So the West is basically fooled by the words of democracy. Seventy-five percent of the Egyptian government now, the parliament is Muslim fundamentalist, and then of course after they take over the government, out with democracy. In the Middle East, yeah sure, they use democracy. It’s one man, one vote, once. That’s it.

SID: Okay. The description from the Muslim holy books of their Messiah is a mirror image of the Christian description of the Antichrist. Why do you say that?

WALID: Absolutely. Everything about the Islamic Messiah, Islam is not void from [unintelligible], by the way. They have what is called the Mahdi. The Mahdi, by the way, is the Messiah to both Sunni and Shiite All Muslims must believe in this coming Messiah. And everything in the Bible that talks about what is called the Antichrist is there in Islam about the Islamic Messiah. If Daniel talked about the Antichrist making a 70-year covenant, Islam talked about the Mahdi creating seven years of peace. If it talks about some of the martyrs that were beheaded or Israel being invaded by the Antichrist, Islam talked how the Mahdi will even unify Turkey and Iran to advance against Israel. Let’s see, [unintelligible] rings a bell here. If it talks about the Trinity in the Bible, Islam says that the Mahdi will come and denounce the Trinity, that they will come and destroy the cross. They will break the cross. From everything in Daniel, Revelation, you can think of, the rider of the white horse from the Book of Revelation. By the way, Muslims take pride about what’s in Revelation regarding the rider of a white horse. That’s the Mahdi. That’s the Mahdi to the Shia. That’s the Mahdi to the Sudanese as well. So in every aspect of the Bible when you read Antichrist or the “man of sin” and you look at the definition of the man of sin it is Islam.

SID: Listen, you were able to think outside of the box to become a believer in Jesus. Wait until you hear as he thinks outside of the box confined only to the words of the Living God and looking through the lens of the East as opposed to the lens of the West, some conclusions he comes up with, you will be literally shocked. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back. I’m shocked by the conspiracy of silence by the news media concerning the dangerous results about the recent election in Egypt. On June 24th, by the narrowest of margins, only 51 percent, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohammed Morsy, became President-elect of Egypt. One of his main spokesmen shared before thousands the ultimate goal of Morsy’s election. “Our capitol shall not be Cairo, Mecca or Medina. It shall be Jerusalem. Our cry will be millions of martyrs marched towards Jerusalem. Yes, Jerusalem is our goal. We shall pray in Jerusalem or else we will die as martyrs on its threshold.” On top of this shocking declaration Iran has announced future joint military exercises in the Mediterranean with Russia and China. What a dangerous alliance. These are such dangerous times for Israel and for the world. We must understand that the events we are now reading in our newspapers and watching on television news casts are predicted in the prophecies of the Bible. We’ll be back with Walid Shoebat in just a moment.

Sid:  I remember a number of years ago I read a book it was called “Visions beyond the Veil.”  And my guest Jim Goll triggered that because he talks about this in his book, and I was so intrigued with this.  And then I found out that one of my favorite believers on planet earth because of her exploits Heidi Baker and her husband’s name is Rolland. Rolland’s grandfather wrote the book “Visions beyond the Veil” of the experiences that he had with orphans in China.  Jim Goll we’re featuring your new book “Angelic Encounters” or “Engaging Help from Heaven” which is a must mentoring tool in the days and times that we’re living in.  Tell us a bit about Rolland Baker’s grandfather’s experiences with orphans in China.

James:  Oh gosh, this is just amazing and again I totally agree with you the ministry today Iris Ministries, specifically in Mozambique and places around the world is a generational blessing with Rolland and Heidi Baker, and we love them dearly.  But this visitation that Sid is referring to I talk about in the first chapter of my new book, the first chapter on Jacob’s Ladder keeps coming on down.  And it was actually at the time of a revelation…

Sid:  By the way I just loved what just rolled off your tongue, “Jacob’s ladder keeps coming on down.”

James:  Absolutely, it happened before in the book of Genesis; you see we don’t just serve only a historic God who did great works in the past.  What Jesus did in the past the Bible promises He does today, and will do tomorrow.  So I call it Jacob’s ladder keeps on coming down because in the book of Genesis was the ladder that came down over Jacob and he saw God standing at the top of the ladder; angels ascending and descending.  And I just prophesy to you out there
“God has an open Heaven experience for you and his angels are going to come up and down heaven’s ladder, and they are going to minister unto you.  And God the Father is standing at the top of the ladder and He will give you a revelation of Himself.”

Sid:  And tell me about those orphans.

James:  Yes, it was actually in 1949 and was in and it’s called “Adulum Home for the Orphans” and it was in the Unnan Providence of China.  Oh what was amazing was when this dimension, and it would happen a lot through worship, when it would happen they would be just in worship and the children it says were often transported to the heavenly city to be entertained by angels, and their earthly caretakers were taken by a much delighted surprise as the children were.  And but these visitations centered around children.  You know many historic revivals like this one in 1949 in China in other places too around that same period of time in 1952 another great revival in Argentina with another revivalist and the visitations of angels occurred at orphanages with children.  I tell you part of this is about God’s heart for the widow and for the orphan, and God speaks a word and He says “I’m coming to visit those very places.”  And so it was in that period of time and these children were taken up three or four of them at a time and they would hear heavenly songs, angels with trumpets, harpist both played and sang with those instruments joining in and singing, and they would hear languages that they didn’t even know in the earth realm but they would it in heaven.

Sid:  They would even play instruments you talk about.

James:  Yes, oh it’s amazing I have this in the first chapter of my book you know and again the books “Angelic Encounters.”

Sid:  But get this they don’t know how to play the instruments but they would be playing them because I guess the Holy Spirit was showing them how to do it.

James:  Yeah, but again and they would all centered around Jesus, it says “Soon after entering the gates of the city the children were taken by the angels to go and see Jesus.”  Now isn’t that what it’s all about, is revealing the man Christ Jesus.  And I tell you angels love ministering and coming to children.  And I tell you right in your very home right now you can open the door as a gatekeeper to your own home and you can call forth “Let Your angels come and visit my children.”  In fact we’ve had angelic visitation to our kids in our own home, and I believe if God could do it with us and if He could do it with the Bakers in 1949, He can do it with you.

Sid:  How about the time this angel, you had a visitation of an angel that said “It’s time for Tyler Hamilton.”

James:  Yeah, that actually deals with the birth of our third child, our second son, and it happened you know back always but it was 7-7-88.  And of course the eight numbers are numbers of new beginnings and double new beginnings and everything.  But I’m up in the middle of the night; actually at 1:17 in the night, and I’m praying prayers of confession of generational sin, being German in my background ,I was confessing the sin of the church for not taking the stand for the Jewish people during the holocaust .  While I’m praying these prayer of identification repentance this angel dressed in a military uniform comes and stands in my livingroom looks at me and says “It’s time for Tyler Hamilton to be born you must go and lay hands upon your wife and call him forth.”  So I went into our bedroom, my wife was fast asleep…

Sid:  Now did you have the name for your child before you heard that angelic voice?

James:  Yeah, Sid this is the amazing encounter because I had had actually the same angel come and appear to me to announce the conception of Tyler, and gave me the name and that we’d have a son and his name would be called Tyler Hamilton.  And then months later then this same angel comes and appears to me, nine and a half months later and says “It’s time for Tyler Hamilton to be born.”  So I went in and I woke up my wife, I laid my hands on her stomach and I made a pronouncement and I said, “Tyler Hamilton this is the voice of your father speaking, your angel has just come and said “I’m to lay hands upon your mother and call you forth.”  I said “Tyler Hamilton now listen and obey your time has come.”  Now believe me we did not have sonograms done to know the sex of the child; we didn’t have to because we knew.  That moment my wife started contractions which led to his birth that day.

Sid:  Well, what does Tyler Hamilton mean to you.

James:  Oh gosh, Tyler Hamilton has a warrior anointing upon his life.

Sid:  But why Tyler?  Where did that come from and Hamilton?

James:  Well, you know sometimes the Lord simply does like identify n your family and my wife Sunday school teacher in growing up who taught her to love the word of God and taught her to read her Bible and pray every day his name was Mr. Tyler.  And so for whatever reason, and of course a Tyler is someone who works on a roof; you know a covering for a house.  But the Lord was simply honoring a Godly heritage. Then my wife’s father’s middle name was Hamilton so we didn’t just pick this out; heaven did.  But they were also honoring some of our godly heritage.

Sid:  You know I love it when you talk about intercession and how angels execute answers to prayers and then test you have nine tests to find out the counterfeit from the authentic.  Tell us one test that comes to mind.

James:  Oh my goodness does it bear good fruit?  Is it agreement in the Bible?  Does it bring edification and exultation of Jesus?  There’s several, does it if they bring a word is it in agreement with the word of God?  If it has predictions does it become…

Sid:  What does angels look like?  Do they look like the thing that you have in cartoons?

James:  [Laughing] You know I have seen angels appear many different ways.  I have seen literal angels, I have seen them where they do have wings and feathery looking appearance.  I’ve seen angels come in the appearance of men and woman dressed in modern day clothing and release the message.

Sid:  Why do I feel sometimes at meetings an angel touch me on my head?

James:  Absolutely you know the manifested presence of God lots of times is released by the angelic so when you sense or feel the climate the atmosphere shift it’s often because angels have been released.  Angels can touch people; they are sent to minister unto those that inherit salvation.

Sid:  What do you suppose they are doing when they touch us?

James:  Oh gosh they’re often imparting strength to us for the journey for our task that is ahead.  Sometimes they’re actually imparting a spirit of revelation to us so that we’ll have understanding of what the Lord is about or about our next task or assignment that He’s giving.

Sid:  I’ve known my guest many years and I knew his father before I met him his name is Craig Hill; he’s founder of Family Foundations International in Littleton, Colorado.  And Craig I met your dad, Gillman I bumped into him a number of times in Israel, but he did something that God called him to do that few people on planet earth would be obedient.  You told me he was a petroleum engineer and God spoke to him and said, “Find an oil well in Israel.”  And normally when God speaks to people like that they run around and they start public companies, and they raise money, but your dad didn’t do that, what did he do?

Craig:  Well Sid it was really an interesting story, back in 1981 my father just went on a tourist trip to Israel and while he was on Mt. Carmel near the Muhraka, he heard the audible voice of God speak to him, “Come here to work?”  And he didn’t know what that meant so as he continued to seek the Lord. The Lord began to show him what he was to do was to come and search for oil and water which was his professional background.  And so he felt like what God wanted him to do rather than raise a lot of money or go to the Israeli government for money. The Lord said to him “I will provide the money.”  And it’s a long story how that happened but God supernaturally provided him money to drill an oil well on Mt. Carmel.

Sid:  But the point I wanted to make for our listeners is that it was his own money it wasn’t investor money.  So he put his money where his mouth was when he said, “God’s telling me to do this,” go ahead.

Craig:  Yeah that was right, no he didn’t raise investor money because he felt like what the Lord had told him is “I want to direct this project, it’s not to be directed by investors.”  And of course when you go out and raise money for a project investors are pretty unhappy if you don’t make a return.  So he invested money that the Lord had made available to him and drilled down to about 9,000 feet and felt that the oil was located at 12,000 about 3,000 feet deeper and began to run out of money. He was very tempted to go raise money, find investors, and he heard the voice of the Lord say to him, “Stop, stop, I didn’t tell you that you would find oil I just told you that you were to drill for oil.”  And that was a difficult thing for him because his human nature really wanted to go raise money, to go find some way to really I would say “Birth an Ishmael” I guess to make this happen in a way that would not really be the direction of the Lord.

Sid:  Approximately how much did he invest in this oil well of his own money?

Craig:  It was many millions of dollars.

Sid:  I know it was and for him to be able to stop because God said, “Stop.”  Now does he believe that God’s going to tell him at a certain point to start drilling again?

Craig:  What he really felt like Sid was that it was just untimely; it wasn’t the right time and exactly as you said, that there will be a time when oil will be released in Israel, but nobody’s going to find it until the time that God says “Now is the time.”  And he’s 84 years old but he’s hoping that it will be within his lifetime and that he will get to be the one to go back and he believes that there’s oil right at that location another 3,000 feet deeper and that he may have the opportunity to go and deepen that well…

Sid:  Do you realize how the whole face of the Middle East, the world for that matter will change when Israel finds oil?

Craig:  Well, it will be an incredible change; it’ll change the political and economic situation in the entire region.

Sid:  Now, your background is kind of interesting to me you got a Bachelors degree in Russian studies and geology.  I guess you were planning on going into the family business, but why Russian?

Craig:  You know I really didn’t have a purpose or a reason for Russian I actually started studying Russian before I was a believer and I had no idea really that it would be useful, but after I met the Lord I really felt like what God was going to have us to do, my wife and me, was to minister in eastern Europe or Russia.  And I was hoping to use geology and business as a way to get there because back in the ‘70s you really couldn’t go to Russia as a missionary.

Sid:  But then you got a MBA in what?

Craig:  I got an MBA in finance and international economics, and again that was my thinking at the time was that I really wanted to serve the Lord fulltime in Russia and business would be an avenue to get there.

Sid:  Well Craig God has gifted you with such a wonderful teaching gift, and you teach in so many areas that my difficulty was finding which of the areas not which is the best but which of the areas that God wanted; because you have a gift in a number of areas.  But there is a critical problem coming.  For years prophecies have come forth get out of debt, then other prophecies of the scripture “The wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.”  So there’s going to be a wealth transfer. What is God showing you about these prophecies and the timing of them?

Craig:  Well, I think now is a critical time and to say something very short and brief initially I think that there is only a window of time for people to get out of debt or it’s going to be very difficult.  I think we’re headed for economic difficulty here in the United States.

Sid:  tell me either what God is showing you or your sanctified intellect because God has really given you the training. What do you believe will happen in America economically.

Craig:  Well, I think that there is a real simple thing Sid that we see, we have been spending more than we make.  The savings rate per capita in the United States has been negative for almost a year and a half now.  That has never happened since 1929, the last time we had a negative savings rate.  So I think the very simple long and short of it is if you spend more than you make there’s going to be a problem.  And we have been doing that on a personal level, a corporate level and a national governmental level in the United States for sometime.

Sid:  Will we see a hyper-inflation; a depression, what…?

Craig:  It really could go either way, I hyper-inflation or a depression.  What I tend to think is going to happen is that we’re going to see prices fall and we’re going to see a depression style rather than a hyper-inflation.  You know the interesting thing is when you look in scripture God had a natural mechanism that He put in scripture to correct that, it was called the Jubilee.  And Jubilee is really nothing more than a preplanned debt purge because human nature dictates that people will take on too much debt.  So people will always borrow more than they should and you end up with a problem in the economy.  So God instituted a Jubilee which was a preplanned debt purge.  The problem in our economy is that we have no preplanned debt purge, and as a result of that, when the economy does purge debt a lot of people get hurt.  And basically the people that get hurt are the people that carry a lot of debt; the people that are out of debt are the ones that are going to be in a position to help others.

Sid:  But Craig we have a generation of young kids that use the plastic and don’t pay any attention about what’s going to happen in the future. They borrow money, they have these, what you call, ARMS where there mortgage rate is tied in with the interest rate, and as interest rate goes up their payments per month go up. They won’t be able to afford it.  I mean I see chaos going on in the mortgage industry.

Craig:  Well, that’s absolutely true it’s coming unraveled and falling apart. I think that’s why the Spirit of God has been speaking to believers for some time, get out of debt.  You know what’s amazing thing Sid?  I just ran some numbers on an excel spread sheet and discovered that virtually anybody if they would take five percent of their gross income and apply it to their debt beyond their minimum payments it will never be more than a decade for somebody to be entirely out of debt including their house mortgage.

Sid:  No, no we have a better plan here in the United States it says, just go bankrupt and leave everyone else holding the bag.

Craig:  Yeah, I guess that’s a plan that some people follow, I question the ethics and the morality of that plan.

Sid:  Listen, I was out for one of your conferences I was one of your speakers. There was testimony, after testimony of people that have gotten a hold of your teaching and what’s happened to them.  Not only have they gotten out of debt, but they seem to be supernaturally blessed financially.  Give me one quick testimony.

Craig:  You know there’s an incredible man who lives in Mexico in the northern part of Mexico, his name is Carlos and he was a cattle rancher.  He went to one of our seminars on finances and began to get a revelation and an understanding that he could get out of debt.  When he looked at his situation it looked like it would be years and years and years for that to happen, but he said “Lord, I determine in my heart I want to be obedient to you; I want to do what you told me to do which is to get out of debt.”  And he began to make plans to pay down his debt, to take a little bit of his income every month to begin to reduce his debt.  He heard the Holy Spirit say at a particular point and time “To sell your cattle.”  Now that was difficult for him because that was his channel of income, he was a cattle rancher.  But he was obedient to the Lord, sold his cattle and an amazing thing is he hit the peak of the market, the cattle market in his area crashed the following week.  He then heard the Holy Spirit say “I want you to invest in sheep.”  He began investing in certain type of sheep, and God showed him how to breed trophy sheep that were worth about ten or twenty times what the normal sheep were worth.  And to make a long story short through that mechanism he paid of his entire debt in about 18 – 19 months I think it was, was completely out of debt and continued seeking the Lord. “What do You want me to do now?”  And as you said Sid this man has experienced unusual favor, he was just telling us recently that the government of his region had given him a grant, not a loan but a grant to put up a green house and grow a particular type of grass that was good for feeding sheep that the government wanted to experiment with.  And he said, “That it was incredible, many people wanted to receive that grant but he just had supernatural favor from God and God gave that to him,” and has again opened up a whole new…

Sid:  Craig it’s so amazing the number of people that start moving in the supernatural there is a counterfeit teaching on money and prosperity and there’s an authentic.