Sid Roth

Sid:  My guest, Ken and Jeanne Harrington have a new book called “Shift, Moving from the Natural to the Supernatural.”  And as far as I’m concerned forget all of the teaching about the supernatural if you don’t get your character in line, if you were given instantly a ministry like Benny Hinn or Kathryn Kulman you would probably fall, big time and have a lot of other people fall.  But if you can develop your character, we’re coming into a time in history in which God is pouring out His Spirit because we’re about ready to see the greatest move of evangelism in the history of planet earth and God wants to use you but unfortunately you’ve been a believe ten, twenty, thirty, forty years and you’ve never understood the world kingdom verses the kingdom of God.  And there is a distinct difference; on yesterdays broadcast when I was talking with Ken and Jeanne we were talking about, if you want to come against the enemy come against the enemy in the opposite spirit.  I wonder if you would teach on that for a bit.

Ken:  We have found and I believe the word says that our gifting can take us places that our character can’t keep us.  In other words that because we have certain talents we rise up in the places that were not actually ready to deal with and if we look at God’s principals it’s like with Joseph, God really wanted him to save Israel he could have just taken Joseph to Pharaoh and interpreted his dreams, but God wasn’t just interested in saving Israel, he was interesting in developing Joseph.  Joseph was a bit of a know it all as a teenager and his prophetic administrative gift, he used it to tattle on his brothers and what God wanted to do was get him into a place where when he rose into power, that he could still walk in humility that his gift wouldn’t destroy him.  So the way he learned his character and developed his character was actually to go downhill, you know get sold in slavery, get put into prison; everything went down, but what God was doing was getting him ready to take that character that he was learning on the downward slid and when God promoted him it wouldn’t go to his head.

Jeanne:  We were invited to be speakers at a wedding during the reception and so we came on time and friends of ours had saved us a seat near the front and we sat there and then pretty soon other people came and said, “We wanted to sit there.”  And so we didn’t say anything and I remember just reading in the Bible how you have to take the lower seat at the wedding.  So, we left the place and we moved down to a lower table.  And then the people were quite shocked when we were asked to come up and speak, but it worked so well when you take the lower seat.  God is pleased when we don’t push for our rights or want our way.

Ken:  And really this is an upside down kingdom that Jesus said, He that wants to be greatest, he shall be the servant, he shall be the least of you.  He that wants to be first many of the first are going to end up being last and so this is why we need to shift; this is why we need a different way of thinking because the world is going down one plane trying to score on a particular scoreboard, but God has a different scoreboard; and he’s looking at how much we look like Jesus, how much we develop because He has the intention of giving us authority to rule and reign, but it’s going to be a ruling and reigning according to the judgments written.  We actually have to know how God thinks and how He feels.  The world does things totally different and if we get stuck in our worldly mindsets, we’ll actually be useless in the kingdom.

Sid:  You know a good story of that is that I was reading a story in your book about the pressure cooker Jeanne, and the world says a million different things when something like this happens; but you decided to just praise God.  Tell me that story.

Jeanne:  God often instructs me in different ways and one of the times that I was cooking soup and I decided to make it in a pressure cooker, but I put in lentils or something that clogged the vent of the pressure cooker and as it was clogged I thought, I better release it so I opened it up and it exploded, went through the ceiling the lid and the product, the soup landed all over my face and down my neck.  I was in instant agony, and I ran and put cold water on it; the only thing I could do was pray in a heavenly language.  And so when my husband came home and he took me to the hospital and when I arrived there they said that I had second and third degree burns; and the doctor said, “That I would be scared.”  They bound me up with bandages and put cream on my face and then they said, “I had to have the bandages changed every day,” but I was able to go home.  I had a nurse that came in and she was a girlfriend of mine; she just jumped in my bed with me because she saw that I was in shock; but I just trusted God.  Our pastor came and anointed us with oil and I believed God would touch me, but I didn’t know when or how and as I kept going for the bandage change he noticed that there was an infection around the throat area.

Sid:  How bad was the pain?

Jeanne:  It was extreme, it was extreme I would just have the pray in the Spirit I could not get any relief.  They gave me pain killers; it was very extreme pain, because your face is very tender.  And I would have to come in everyday to the hospital; have the bandages rechanged and redressed and finally after a week or two I noticed my face beginning to look like fruit leather and it was horrible it was all down the left side of my face and down the left neck area.  And after a couple of weeks I said,  “Okay Lord if this is how you want me to look I can receive that, but I’m okay with that.”  And the Lord said, “Pick up a cotton ball” and I picked up a cotton ball and I began to wipe my face off and as I did the big thick brown skin fell off and underneath was white skin not even red or pink; but just normal skin.  And then somebody once said to me, “Well maybe you healed faster, maybe you just heal really well” and in a couple of weeks later, I took out a tray of cookies out of the oven, burnt my arm a little bit and that scar lasted a year.  And so God really showed me He loves us; He wants to heal us, but we have to let Him do it His way.

Sid:  What did the doctors have to say about your healing? 

Jeanne:  They were shocked, they didn’t even believe I was the same person, because they had never see me without the burn and so then the doctor didn’t know what to make of it; because he said second and third degree burn.

Sid:  Well, Ken and Jeanne you say things that I’ve never heard people say before in your book; “Use your brokenness to bring healing, your former poverty to bring wealth and your former sickness to bring health.”  What do you mean by that?

Jeanne:  You have authority when you have had victory over something, I had cancer and survived it and I now pray for people with cancer and have faith to believe that they will be healed.  If we have walked in poverty…

Sid:  Okay, just out of curiosity according to my information here you prayed for five people with brain tumors that were healed?

Jeanne:  The doctors told each one they had a brain tumor and when I laid hands on them I didn’t believe it, I believed that it was a lying wonder and I said, “No, God says you don’t have a brain tumor.”  They went back each one and each one was totally clear, they never had brain tumors; never needed operations; never needed chemo therapy.

Sid:  You also talk about it’s very very important to be obedient.  Tell me about the time you were driving your children and all of a sudden you saw two angels.

Jeanne:  I was kind of afraidy cat driver; and we were driving in a remote area in Canada in the woods area near Rocky Mountain House and I was listening to tapes and they were teaching tapes and all of a sudden I looked at the side of the road and I saw these two kind of translucent beings, so I knew that were really peopled there, but I saw them with my visual eyes and they were holding this big sign out and the sign said, “Danger!”  And immediately after I saw that I heard the tape describe in Psalms how the Angels are there to perform the word of God.  So quickly I invited the Angels into the car and I could feel them come in from the roof and down and as they came in this great big tanker truck with an extra trailer on it brand new shinny just zipped past us and I thought, oh, I got to pray for protection so I began declaring the Psalms and Psalms 39 and praying for protection.  And then that tankard truck turned on to Highway 22 where I was supposed to go, but for whatever reason I decided to just take the dog for a little walk and then I decided to go into the town a little further ahead and gas up even though I didn’t need gas and get some snacks for the kids.  And so then after about a half hour maybe an hour we drove back down toward Highway 22 and as were coming out and on to Highway 22 after a couple of miles this torrential rain started to come and it was so strong I could barely see out of the window, but I had remembered the warning of danger so I kept praying, kept declaring scriptures.  And all of a sudden, we saw lights flashing; and then we saw that there were emergency vehicles all over; that tankard had flipped over and been across the highway and had I followed it I would have not been able to have diverted the problem.   So I thank God that He sends His angels and I thank God that they alerted me and told me that there was danger ahead and then for whatever reason I had no compulsion to go right away home.

Sid:  You know there’s so many things in your book “Shift” I’m convinced because of the great outpouring of God’s Spirit that we must shift our thinking; and you hit so many bull eyes.  For instantaneous you talk about accepting responsibility even if you are only one percent wrong, why?

Ken:  Yeah, we can’t change everybody else, we can only change ourselves and so…

Sid:  But my flesh would rebel if I was 99% right!

Ken:  Well, my flesh down too, but my spirit doesn’t; because my spirit says “No, do this.”  There’s a verse in 1 Peter 2:20 it says that eventually, it says that if we do what’s right and suffer for it, this is acceptable with God.  So God actually said that there is a formula there, it’s saying do what’s right, let’s take you responsibility minus your rights equals favor with God.

Sid:  My guest Billy Burke I don’t think anyone has ever said to him before, but I’m going to say it; I believe the gift of Miracles and that’s what he operates in the gift of working of miracles.  I believe that, as a matter of fact, I’m just reminded I’m hearing in my head right now, something you said to me Billy, about Kathryn Kulman, she made a very strong point of this and you make a strong point of this about not having any gifts, explain that.

Billy:  That was the way Kathryn had taught many many in her meetings, but also whenever we were in her company at moments where she would say that “I don’t have any gifts, I have the gift of the Holy Spirit.” The gifts are the gifts of the Spirit, they are not mine we don’t possess them.  Therefore He uses me, I don’t use him.  If I had a gift then I would go and just heal everybody that I could, obviously I don’t have that gift nor does anybody else.

Sid:  And yet Kathryn Kulman said that she saw a day coming in which we would go into hospitals and clear out everyone in the hospital.

Billy:  I think that was her prophetic insight though of the coming as we get closer to the end the outpouring is going to be so incredible and the gift of faith, again there it is; again the difference between the fruit of faith and the gift of faith.  We all have the fruit of faith when we start and we can grow that faith.  But the gift of faith is whenever God imparts that supernatural ability to believe in an individual at that moment.

Sid:  Well, many of these creative miracles that occur must be when that gift of faith kicks in.  Tell me about some creative miracles.

Billy:  Oh well, we’ve had one lady she had a stomach removed and she had no pouch and she lived that way for two years on ice tea and pickle I believe and she came into one of our meetings and prayed that God would create a new stomach in her and Holy Ghost touched her and the whole pouch was recreated inside of her stomach.  We had another lady here locally in Tampa Bay, her appendix was removed when she was in high school and she came into a meeting not long ago and the Holy Ghost touched her, they went back a recreated appendix.  A young boy in Fort Worth, Texas was born with a hole in his heart, and we’ve seen several of these where there’s been a whole in the heart and the hole in the heart was creatively just disappeared.  We have a young girl in Minnesota who had a leg amputated and the bone is actually as we speak still growing out.  Her prosthesis no longer fits; the bone grew, I think it’s been a couple of inches already outside of the shaft there.  So she has to get refitted as that continues to grow, that’s a progressive creative miracle.  We see a lot of people with macula creative degeneration of the eyes which is degenerative, it can’t be reversed you know and we’ve seen many conditions where that is creatively healed and God touches people there.

Sid:  Now when you have a meeting let’s say there’s a thousand people and the gift of the operating in miracles kicks in “How many people might be healed?”  “Of a thousand people?”

Billy:    Oh my, Sid because…

Sid:  Because every ones got something their dealing with.

Billy:  Here’s the thing, because it is so hard when you say the word healed verses manifested.  Healed the numbers are amazing; it’s almost you know it’s, the percentages are really really high.  But some of the people leave with maybe only thirty percent.  And please your listeners today need to hear this, they get thirty percent of the manifestation or fifty percent of the manifestation or somewhat gone and it’s really really important to understand that they’re to take the part that they get and keep pressing in because God wants to get all of it to you.  Remember the man at the Pool of Bethesda, Jesus actually touched him and gave him a prophetic word, but he was still blind, why because he had to get to the pool.  He had to get to the place of manifestation and today it’s so possible to enjoy a meeting and we don’t press for manifestation.  So we enjoy the anointing, we enjoy prayer, but God wants you to press in to see, to hear for the tumors to dissolve, for the cancers to go away and we’ve seen so many brain tumors healed, so much cancer healed, so many people born deaf, you know healed.  We just came from Lansing, Michigan and a man told his girl friend, “You keep that man here, I’m running home and getting your Mother” and she’s completely blind, “Don’t let him go!”  And they got her to the meeting, we had about 3,000 people in this meeting and she came up with her walking stick, her cane, her red tipped stick and the power of God hit her and bam her eyes came right open and she was just crying.  Her name was Carman and Carman began to see and of course the whole place was very excited about that.  And then a young girl drove five hours, her Mother brought her teenage daughter had some kind of growth on her spine, she could not run, she could not walk normal and in seconds that growth just disappeared, it vaporized.  We see a lot of growths disappear, Sid.  A lot of hernias, a lot of breast lumps, we see a lot of tumors, outside things you can visibly see just disappear in the meeting.  And it’s amazing because at that moment even though He’s using me to do it, I don’t possess that gift, I’m yielded to the gifts that are, and many people confuse that scripture in 2^nd Timothy “Stir up the gift.”  It doesn’t say stir up the gifts plural it says, “Stir up the gift of the Holy Ghost that was given you by the laying on of hands.”  So you stir Him up; you sing, you pray, you praise, you know you confess the Word, you proclaim, you know, Jesus as Lord.

Sid:  I have to believe that he is stirred up right now, I’m feeling a river of I think almost anything.  What are you sensing?

Billy:  I sense right now that are people being healed and people being touched all over your listening audience and I want you right now to just begin to reach out to Him.  If you are driving in the car, pull the car along the side there and if you are listening at home, pay close attention because right now He’s setting so many of you free that are medicated, that are not enjoying the quality of life.  He’s healing all forms of arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoporosis, either you have pain or you have the bone density problem; He’s healing that, He’s creating bone density right now.  There’s someone on a neck brace, you have a fiberglass neck brace, you’ve been in accident and He’s healing your neck immediately.  I believe that there’s many of you have an A positive biopsy that you’ve gotten a report back where there’s cancer because of the biopsy. “You do not have surgery until you get checked again; you require another or pray another blood test because many of you are going to find that after that biopsy, because you’ve heard this program today that God has healed you of all of the cancer.  You are not going to need that surgery.  I give you praise mighty Lord, there’s kidney infections being healed.  There is someone with pancreatic cancer, the cells are all dying, the x-rays going to show that the tumors are still there; yes that will show up, but the cancer cells I say are dead, they need to do another biopsy because the cancer cells are dead; they need to get in there and take out that dead tissue.  There’s diverticulitis being healed in Jesus Name, I thank you for that Lord for touching people all over this wonderful wonderful, wonderful broadcast and removing that scar tissue in Jesus Name.  There’s several men being healed of prostate cancer, I’m telling you you’re PSA count is off the charts and I’m telling you that the next time you’re tested those PSA levels are going to be right where they need to be.  He’s healing you right now.  Hepatitis C is being healed by the power of the Holy Ghost, I thank you Lord for that, I thank you Lord, there’s several woman listening to me that your sister, breast cancer is in your family line.  That curse in the family line, God has broken that curse and it is not coming to you.  You are being freed from the terror of contracting breast cancer.  You are being released right now, somebody is actually grasping your mouth, you are saying, “Oh My God that is me.”  “That is you Maim.”  We thank you in the mighty Name of Jesus.  Several of you are being healed neurophy in the feet,  your feet are just being giving you great great problems you are being healed miraculously of that neurophy of the feet, we thank you Lord.  There is someone in a wheelchair and you’ve had no feeling from the waist down and right now you are getting feeling, you still aren’t able to get out of that wheelchair, but listen to me you’re getting the feeling it is coming back up and your nerves are coming back to life.  It’s God’s sign to you that your days in that chair are numbered, your breakthrough is at hand, He’s growing your faith, be happy for that!  “Oh, but I want to walk,” You will, but thank him for the portions coming your way right now!  We thank you Mighty Jesus, we give you praise, we give you praise for all.

Sid:  Billy, I just feel like I’m in a river, I just as you’re speaking those words that I could just be carried off, I want them to continue listening to your teaching because there’s such a river of anointing of your teaching…

Sid:  You know the presence of God is so strong I was ready to do my normal introduction and I just had to say, “Holy Spirit thank you for being on this show in such an awesome way.”  My guest is Billy Burke and we’ve been talking about the difference between the gift of the working of miracles and say exclusively just standing on the word and both are great.  But I want to understand this gift of the working of miracles, Billy.  Let’s take an example, Kenneth Copeland, you had an opportunity to minister to Kenneth’s grandson tell me about that.

Billy:  I believe, it was I’m not sure that it was a grandson; I believe yeah, it was his daughter’s stepson.  Well to my knowledge, I don’t believe the grandson was actually there, the daughter came back into the green room after one of the meetings and he was scheduled for surgery, he had a hole in his heart, and he came back and wanted prayer for that incident that God would step in and intervene and heal that hole in the heart.  You know, we’ve seen many, many great miracles at the Eagle Mountain Church there in Forth Worth, and what a great place to be.  So she came back and we prayed and…

Sid:  And as you’re just saying that, we have seen many miracles, I am feeling such a presence, just waves of the miracles power of God, just as you’re saying that.  I’m just curious, are you feeling that too?

Billy:  I do Sid, and pain is leaving, there’s cycles of pain leaving all over, there’s fibroid tumors being healed, fibroid tumors are being healed right now and synaptic nerves being healed, fibromyalgia being healed,  osteoporosis is being healed; there is an anointing  flowing, a stream flowing right now.

Sid:  It’s almost as if, I like the way you say it is a stream, almost like I feel I can take my hand and put it in that stream and whatever I need, it’s mine!

Billy:  It’s amazing Sid, and that’s what God does.  He creates that atmosphere for people who can’t maybe get there themself to jump in to get it.  That’s the whole purpose of the word of knowledge.

Sid:  Okay, so what was wrong with this Kenneth Copeland’s daughter’s stepson?   

Billy:  Well, he was born with a hole in the heart I believe if I understand correctly that diagnosis, I don’t know the exact medical term for it.  But long story short that when they took him to the doctor and they were going to do the surgery they took a pre-ops x-ray and he was healed.  The hole in the heart had been closed up and it was creative and the doctor said, “Man what happened here and it was a creative miracle in the Copeland family.

Sid:  Tell me about that woman that fell four stories and then a man fell on top of her and what happened to the man? 

Billy:  He was severed in half, his torso was severed.

Sid:  Oh no!

Billy:  His torso was severed and he laid dead on top of her and she was on these pylons, she fell four stories I believe it was, broke everything that you could break in your back and they brought her to a meeting.  That was at Eagle Mountain Church and George Pearson’s the pastor then; that is Kenneth Copeland’s son-in-law.  Great great church and they brought her to the meeting and I prayed for her and she fell under the power twice, but she still maintained the pain and she was in excruciating pain.  I mean beyond belief nothing was helping her, not even morphine I believe if I’m understanding correctly.  So I took my microphone off and I went into her ear as I do a lot in meetings because people don’t need to hear what I’m saying.  We never mean to embarrass anybody but often times we got to grow faith.  See that’s the key, people if you are listening to me, don’t ever be offended if you don’t ever have enough.  If you don’t have enough money, what do you do, you borrow, if you don’t have enough sugar you go to your neighbor and say “Can I have a cup of sugar?”  And God grows faith, its unlimited there’s unlimited faith is available, but we have to grow it because we get caught sometimes in situation where our faith has to grow to meet the obstacle we are facing, cause we didn’t know that we were going to face that obstacle obviously.  So I took my microphone off and I whispered in her ear and I said, “Look I felt the power go through me into you and I said you are going to go to bed one way and wake up another way.”  She just looked at me, she was in so much pain and so she hobbled out of that meeting that night, they helped her out of there.  And the very next night we were capturing testimonies and there she was, bright eyes bushy tailed smiling and she came up and said, “I have no more pain, I went to bed one way and I woke up another way.” So it took the healing and the prophetic word, the prayers twice, the prophetic word and sometimes Sid, that’s the key, we just don’t know; we just don’t know what all it’s going to take. 

Sid:  You’ve had some pretty outrageous things happen, tell me about the woman whose hair changed colors.

Billy:  That was a woman in Pittsburgh, she had been making fun of me in the meeting, she was mocking the service and mocking the miracles and she became pretty obnoxious and I said, “Maim, what’s the matter?” She said, “You’re ridiculous, this isn’t real and it was just one of those kairos moments, you know those sovereign moments where I said to her kind of what Jesus said to Thomas, “What’s it going to take for you to believe?”  Remember he said, “What’s it going to take?”  Because He really was reaching out to try to persuade Thomas and Thomas was just drifting away, the more he saw the less he believed, because he believe his eyesight and not his faith.  And I said to the woman, “What’s it going to take for you to believe?”  And she said, “Really,” she said, “Really this is crazy.”  And I said, “Well, I see you have salt and pepper hair.” She said, “Yes,” and I said, “What about when I count to three and if your hair goes back to its original color?  And she said, “You’re going to count to three and my hair is going to its original color?     

Sid:  Wait a second, “Was that just a faith proclamation or did you hear that in your spirit?”

Billy:  “That was a faith proclamation.”

Sid:  “Oh, my goodness.”

Billy:  After I said it, I inside I said, “Oh, God help me I’m out here on a limb.”

Sid:  Ha-ha.

Billy:  And so often that’s what miracles, see here’s the thing Sid, where the church has done us a great injustice, everything has to be lined up for a miracle to happen.  In the Bible miracles flourished when circumstance and situations weren’t good.  How much worse can they get whenever a man says, “I believe, but I don’t believe, help my unbelief?”  It can’t get worse than that but Jesus still did it!  And somehow we’ve got to be careful that we don’t teach everything has got to be just right for God to move.  All that I say is, “Cry out to him, reach out to him, get in the line of fire; get in somewhere where somebody believes more than what you do.”  Anyhow that’s what happened in this case, well I counted to three.  Long story short and I was afraid because I thought oh boy, but you know God wants us to be in positions where we need Him.  He wants to give you dreams you can’t pay for, He wants to give you ideas you don’t even have the connections to get them.  How supernatural is it if you can pay for it?  How supernatural is it if you have all of the right people to bring it about.  God wants to give you things you can’t do, things you can’t perform, things you can’t pay for. And He wants to show you that I can do this through you and then I can get all the glory.  And so it’s allowing ourself to be in vulnerable positions to where we can’t heal anybody.  I can’t heal a person, but if I can get in a position where I can reach out and give myself over to Him and get in vulnerable position is where I can be criticized, my name can be drug through the mud you know.  And she said, “Okay I can’t wait to see this,” and she was making a big deal about it.  And I said, One, two, and I stayed on two a little bit long.

Sid:  I don’t blame you.

Billy:  A little bit too long and I mean people were looking at me and I said, “Three and I remember vividly the lady behind her said, “Oh, my God!”  And her hair changed back to her original color and she got born again that night.

Sid:  What about the blind girl, who literally the color of her eyes changed. Tell me about that.

Billy:  It was a young girl they brought to one of our meetings in Alabama years ago and she was probably about fifteen, sixteen years old if I remember correctly.  Afro-American girl, sweet girl, but they drove her from excuse me, from Atlanta, Georgia she belongs to a mega church there. And they brought her in and her eyes were brown in color, but they had that white film over them that you see a lot of blind people have.  The while film all over the eye, but underneath that you can see the brown eye.  And she came to the altar near the end of the meeting and the power of God hit this young girl, she went under the power, when she was laying there on the floor she began to scream, “I can see, I can see.”  So we all ran over there, there she was, “Oh my God, I can see you, I can see you.”  We were watching and we were enjoying watching her express that and then all of a sudden someone said, and here her eyes were turning green and the whole color of her eye went to brown into a real pretty jade color.  And I said, “Oh my word.”  And then we got a mirror and looked and everything and she was just one happy, I mean people today buy contacts to change the colors of their eyes.

Sid: So she not only got her vision back, but the color of eye changed from brown to green.

Billy:  From like a brown to like a jade, I guess jade would be more appropriate, but I don’t want to make her sound like an alien, but yeah.

Sid:  Now you see creative miracles.  Tell me a few real quick.

Billy:  Yeah, well gosh we’ve seen a lady that had no stomach you know and her stomach had been removed by doctors, she had no pouch and that was created.

Sid:  Now, was that verified?

Billy:  We have documentation on that, yes.

Sid:  And as a matter of fact you go to a lot of lengths to really document things.  What do you do?

Billy:    This has been all progressive Sid, because you know years and years ago we didn’t, didn’t know the value of that.  But really dealing today with all of the credibility issues we started to take great precaution in all of our meetings.  And it’s very hard to document everything medically.  We try to do the very best we can, but if you are in a meeting of thousands of people, it is very hard.  We may have anywhere from 500 people to 1,000 people a night get healed.  We don’t have enough staff…

Sid:  Oh, I’m sorry we are out of time, I urge you to be back tomorrow. 

Sid:  And my guest can’t help but be red hot for the Messiah, he is seeing so many what the rabbi’s refer to as “Messianic Miracles,” people blind, getting their sight, deaf able to hear, people in wheelchairs walking, people having bodily organs that have been cut out by surgery recreated, I mean miracles that most people just read about.  But I want to find out how this happened.  Now Billy Burke went to Bible school after nine years of age going to a Kathryn Kulman service and having terminal brain cancer healed.  He only had three days to live, and he was instantly healed and he experienced and outpouring of God’s power that was so strong that three rows of people in the congregation fell out of their chairs, fell over backwards it was such an outpouring of the power of God.  But when you went to Bible school, you graduated from Melodyland School of Theology in California, and you saw healings and you had a successful healing ministry.  But nothing compared to what happened to you, nothing compared to what happened at age nine and I asked Billy before we went on the air, “Was there a particular point that you moved from aches and pains and healings to the miraculous?”  And he said, “Yes,” he said, “He had just come back from a meeting in Ligonier Pennsylvania and there was a message on his tape recorded answering machine.  Tell me about Billy.”

Billy:  We had a…they had rented the town hall in Ligonier, it was packed out that night and there were a few people there that had had hearing loss that were deaf that were healed, there was a lot of arthritis, a lot of varied forms of diseases and maladies that were healed that night and I was happy with that meeting.  But I came home and my answering machine was blinking and when I turned it on a voice came over the answering machine that said “Hey, hotshot you think you’re really something, you think that you can heal people, well how’s come no blind people were healed?  Why don’t you come down with me to the Blind Association tomorrow in Pittsburgh and see if you can heal some blind people?”  And I of course turned the machine off, I knew that voice was not a natural voice; I knew that voice was demonically inspired and so I tried to dismiss it, because it was very accusatory, very unedifying, very condemning.  But yet when I walked away from it and sat at my desk there in my home, I realized that there was a strain of truth in it and that was up until that point I hadn’t seen anybody blind healed and it bothered me.  And I thought well even though I didn’t like the way that was said, it was condemning; still there was an element of truth.  And I remember closing my Bible and I began to just cry physically cry and I said, “Lord why, why am I not seeing more,” and I began to cry out and I think we all have the potential to cry out to God.  He delivered them out of Egypt when He heard their cry, when their cry came before Him.  And it takes a long time for our cry to get vertical, Sid.  We cry within our self; we cry to other people, it took 400 years to bring the Jewish people out of captivity in Egypt.  Why, He said it took 400 years for their cry to get vertical.  Getting vertical is not always the easiest thing to do when we cry to Him and I began to cry to Him and say “Lord, if you are going to keep me in this Miracle Healing Ministry I’ve got to see more than what I’m seeing.”  And I didn’t realize at the time, but I was hungering and thirsting for more, more manifestation, more demonstration.  Because we can all get comfortable, we can all get accepted at a certain level, we can get by, we can please a crowd, we can help some people.

Sid:  But you were at that point!

Billy:  Yeah, we had seen a lot of people helped.

Sid:  So, why weren’t you just content, why were you so hungry for more?

Billy:  I think if you read the Bible for long enough if you begin to realize that book is so supernatural.  The Bible was never suppose to make sense, it was suppose to make faith and if you read the Bible for it to make sense it is the wrong book to read.  But if you read the Bible to make faith it will expand you without you even really realizing it because the whole book is just about Jesus made wine without grapes.  You know Abraham had no more sperm and Sarah had no eggs, but they had a baby.  So the whole book is beyond our natural laws, it’s beyond the way we operate in the natural realm; it is another kingdom that operates by other laws.  And all of a sudden you ingest that and you begin to realize there has got to be more, there’s got to be more.  And of course the Apostle Paul said, “Eye has not seen nor has ear heard the things that God has for them that love him,” but he finishes by saying, “But the Spirit is revealing them to us.”

Sid:  At that moment Billy, “How desperate were you for more of God?”

Billy:  Desperate Sid, because I didn’t like the fact that someone was on my answering machine saying, “Hey, thus and so and I’m thinking yeah Lord, You know I don’t like the way he said that, but he is right.”  You know, how’s come I’m not seeing that?”  And sometimes we accept so many things in life Sid, we accept so many things that God wants us not to accept.  And that began my journey, I began to cry out, “God I got to see more, I’ve got to see more” and it was not long after that a couple of weeks after that I was in Southern California…

Sid:  You know just out of curiosity, I mean I want to go back to this, because I’ve have heard this testimony from others, I’ve heard Rodney Howard Brown say, He walked into his bedroom and he said, “I’m not going to eat or drink or leave this room until either I go to you or you come to me!”  Was that what was going on inside of you?

Billy:  Yeah, yeah I think like the woman that touched His hem, many were touching Him, but one made a demand on the anointing and I think you can make a demand on the anointing, I think that it’s here to be demanded, to be extracted.  I think that it’s so more acceptable than what we are being taught.  Remember we only grow as much as our mentors can take us.  And you know, we are supposed to have the Spirit without measure.  I don’t want the double portion of the Old Testament, I don’t want; you know what Elisha said “I want a double portion.”  I don’t want a double portion, I want the new covenant I want the Spirit without measure.  Would you rather have two of something or unlimited measure of something?”   And I think that, again it goes back to that word and what you are reading, and yeah so the cry said, “There’s more than I’m seeing here!”

Sid:  Okay, so you are crying out desperately from your inner, from every fiber of your being, “I’ve got to have more!” I mean almost can I say, almost like a madman?

Billy:  Yes, yes, because everything in that Bible, everything in the Word of God is predicated by hunger and thirst.

Sid:  Okay, so you go to a meeting, you’re recognized because you graduated from the college at Melody land, Pastor Wilkerson tells you to stand up on one side and pray for people and he’s praying for people on the other side.  And the first person you get ..,

Billy:  Is a blind person.

Sid:  Oh, evay!  What did you think?

Billy:  I was happy about it because I thought, “Wow here I am back at the school I graduated from in a great public church; there’s about a thousand people at the altar being prayed for.  I’m helping out a man that I really respect and I really regard highly you know who helped me, be a father to me and I wanted to impress, you know that’s just human nature.  And because I had seen a lot of great miracles and healings up until then and I mean a lot of them, a lot people healed of cancer and deaf ears but never a blind person till that point and this is only two weeks now after the answering machine incident, two weeks after I had cried out to Him and here I am with this first chance to pray for a blind person and Sid, her eyes came open so easily, so easily, so easily I was shocked!  She said, “I can see, oh my God I can see.”  I said, “You can,” and I yelled over to Pastor Wilkerson, I said, “Pastor Ralph, she can see.”  He said, “I’m so glad, get over here we’ve got another one.”

Sid:  Well, how about that other one could she see?

Billy:  I went there and it was a man, the first one was a woman the second was a man and he was blind and his eyes came open.

Sid:  I still want to take you back to when you were crying out, did you feel anything unusual, did you feel you had reached something or did you…

Billy:  Yes, I do believe that there’s a level of satisfaction you know, Bartimaeus cried out, have mercy, he cried.  I think so many times we don’t express ourselves completely to God.  I think you know there is a reason why we have tear ducts; there is a reason why we have a heart and a soul.  There is a reason why, and He said when you love me with all of your mind, and heart and soul, I do think that when you reach a level of yes, I’ve touched Him, you know it.  I believe you can know it.  I don’t believe that it’s just empty space; I don’t believe it’s just well I’m crying out to God.  I believe you walk away realizing I touched God.  Remember the woman with the issue, He didn’t touch her; she touched Him.

Sid:  What would you consider the greatest miracle you have seen and you’ve see many, I’ve got pages of them.  But if I forced you, which would it be?

Billy:  Well, that’s a loaded question, that is so loaded, I mean I have seen some amazing things, I have seen cancers fall off, I’ve seen people come to the alter after running to the laboratory.  We had a meeting Porto Rico, they were holding cancers in their hand, tumors.

Sid:  Is cancer, Kathryn Kulman used to say, “Arthritis is easy for me,” until a doctor walked up to and said, “Madam, do you know that there’s no cure for arthritis?”  Are cancers easy under the anointing?

Billy:  Yes, you’re saying something that’s so true and that is to each person, what they have is monumental you know and so we see so many people healed of fibromyalgia, osteoporosis, synaptic nerves, curvature of the spine…  

Sid:  Oops, I’m sorry were running out of time, I’m going to turn Billy loose on tomorrow’s broadcast, I’ll tell you what, I’m sensing such a presence of God.

Sid:  If you heard yesterday’s broadcast and for some strange reason you didn’t hear it, you better go to our web page, Sidroth.org, Sidroth.org.  Because we found out from Billy Burke that as a young nine year old, he just had days to live.  He had terminal brain cancer and he didn’t know anything about the healing ministry, the charismatic movement, any of these things.  He was in a nice evangelical church.  But his grandmother knew, she watched Kathryn Kulman who had one of the greatest healing ministries of her day, maybe of any day short of Jesus!  And she would watch Kathryn on TV and somehow she had it in her heart that her grandson Billy Burke who was nine years of age that only had a few days to live.  Was it difficult for her to get a nine year old out of the hospital that had days to live with terminal brain cancer Billy?

Billy:  Yeah, it was.  They had a little go around with the doctors and the officials there, but she was fully persuaded at that time. 

Sid:  I’m amazed that she even convinced your parents to do it.

Billy:  That’s what she had to do it, because they were my legal guardians, but she had evidently looking back at it as we would say today, she must have had a clear Word, a God breathe Word from the Lord.

Sid:  Okay, the whole time and it was a few days, she gets you out a few days before the service she going to take you to and you’re in horrible shape.  The cancer had spread to your lungs, your neck, you had lumps all over your body, you lost your motor skills, your eyes you had a patch over one of your eyes.   In fact I think that your whole side was paralyzed, is that correct?

Billy:  One side I couldn’t…I mean I had to take my one leg and they would put, back then they would, the medication that they had then, whatever they used wasn’t working so we had buckets of ice water with towels soaking in ice water to put one over the other on my head just trying to alleviate the pain.

Sid:  And the pain was really bad.

Billy:  Horrible, horrible, Sid, horrible.

Sid:  How did you deal with your grandmother who keeps saying to you over and over again that, “When that woman touches you, you will be healed?”

Billy:  Well, I was annoyed because I didn’t understand it, I didn’t know what she was doing and now I do when I teach the fact that, “How do you prepare for a miracle?”  You know we prepare for Christmas, Thanksgiving, Weddings, vacation, hunting, fishing, golfing; we know how to prepare for everything in life, but a miracle.

Sid:  Okay, over and over and over again can you picture his grandmother saying this? “When that woman,” she is talking about Kathryn Kulman, “When that woman touches you, you will be healed!”  So you finally get there, did you see many healings going on?

Billy:  Yeah, I mean what I perceived at that time to be healing, of course I had never seen people fall under the power, this was 1962 Sid; so it wasn’t as common as it is today.  And so these people are falling and I’m thinking what’s that all about? So I was caught up in the awe of it.

Sid:  Okay, she points at you, you know that she’s talking about you, now did she actually say cancer or what did she say when she pointed at you?

Billy:  Young boy, you’re being healed of cancer, get down here.  And so then after three tries because I didn’t want to come down on the first I was too afraid, “I screamed real loud no!”  And she said, “I said get down here!”  I said, “No!”  The second time and the third time she said, “Ushers, you bring him down here!”  So she sent two men in the balcony to get me down, Abraham was one and Domhoff, Norman was the other and they came up in up in the balcony and ushered me down there with my Grandmother and Mother.  And I stood in front of her and we chatted for a little bit and as she went to touch me her hand was coming towards me in slow motion it seemed like.  I could hear my Grandmother’s voice, “When she touches you.”  So my Grandmother had done her job, she had prepared me to receive, she had gotten me ready.  I could see Kathryn’s hand and I could feel something coming out of her that was just something incredible, but I could hear my Grandmother’s voice.  Now when that hand hit me and it was, the power that hit me was incredible!  I could not stand, and after I fell I could not get up, I could not move my body it was believable feeling. 

Sid: And, just out of curiosity, “Were you hearing anything when this was going on?” you are pinned to the ground you couldn’t move, you are feeling things.  “Were you hearing everything people were saying?”

Billy:  I could hear her, it was in and out, because understand I still had one patch, I never felt anything like that, I could not move any of my limbs, any of my extremities were pinned to the floor and so I never had an experience like that in my life so I could hear, I could hear parts of what she said, not all of it.

Sid:  Okay, she eventually had them pick you up, she prays for you again, you go down again, “Did you realize there was a change in your body?  What did you realize was happening?”

Billy:  “That’s the funny part I didn’t even know it, and when I got up the second time I didn’t even realize here my whole paralysis was gone on my one side of me;” and then she said, “Remove that patch.”    And I said, “No, no, no.”  And she said, “You take that patch off or I’m taking that patch off.” Ha-ha. 

Sid: Ha-ha.  We have a Hebrew word and the Hebrew word is chutzpa, that’s nerve.

Billy:  She had, she had chutzpa and so I reluctantly didn’t take it off, but I flipped the bottom of the patch up, because I hated double vision, it was horrible.  And I pulled the patch and here my eyes had gone straight, perfectly straight, the double vision was gone.  My side, where the paralysis was, was gone and of course my Grandmother was crying, my mother was crying, and it was, it was a pretty emotional moment to say the least so.  You know that’s what happened there.

Sid:  Okay, when you went into the doctor’s I understand that they insisted that you have x-rays, tell me about that.

Billy:  Well, it wasn’t immediately it was I went home from that and we were such in shock as much as everybody wanted that to happen, the shock of that and again I keep emphasizing 1962, we’ve come so far in our knowledge of the Holy Spirit, the acceptance of miracles since back then it wasn’t that way.  And people even though you came back and you were still like that people still looked at you like wow; this can’t happen you’re still going to die.  But my Grandmother said, “Oh no, no, what God does he finishes, He completes.  And we went back in for x-rays I believe it was, I think it was within that week, it was, I can’t give you an exact day for that, but the Doctor came out then and he was absolutely amazed!  He said, “I don’t know what you have done?” But he said, “This is amazing!”  And so that was the documentation of that of course, that was all we needed at that moment.

Sid:  But, there’s two more things that I want you to bring out.  The fact that the presence of God was so strong on you that several rows of people fell under the presence of God just when it hit you and then Kathryn Kulman asked any one that’s had any type of cancer to come and stand near you.  There must have been such an explosion of God’s power just coming from you which had just gone into you to have that healing.  And then many years later you got together with one of the head usher there, and what did he tell you?

Billy:  Well, I met him just maybe it has been seven or eight years ago now, I met him in California and I was sharing my testimony and he was in the green room when I had finished.  He said hi Billy, let’s go to lunch, I said I don’t know you Sir, he said, “Well, I’m the usher, I’m one of the ushers that Kathryn sent to the balcony to get you.  And I want to make sure that you know everything she said to you.  And I thought, and then I said “What?”  We went to lunch and he said to me that “Do you remember all the details of that day?”  I said, “Well, I don’t remember everything, I remember what my family told me, what I remember.”

Sid:  You were just nine years old.

Billy:  At nine years old, you can’t retain everything and he said that, “There were so many people healed that day especially blood cancer, and all kinds of lung cancer, liver cancer, the reports of that day of that service he said, were amazing.”   But he said, “Kathryn, the second time when you were under the power she said; “You will do, what I do, this boy will do what I do.”

Sid:  If I were you, I would have been so grateful that he told me that!

Billy:  Yes, because my family never told me that, I never heard that, they never told me that and of course I went right away to the phone after we had that lunch I called my Grandmother and I said that I just met a man and I told her who he was and she said, “Yes, he was there, he was there and I said, “He told me Kathryn said,”  And she said, “Billy we were traumatized that day; you know we were…”

Sid:  Billy, we’re out of time right now. 

Sid:  Now I have been looking over the book and the CD of my guest this week and I have to tell you Billy Burke, some of these miracles just are blowing me out of the water.  I mean people without organs are having them recreated.  I mean a woman had her stomach cut out and she gets a new stomach, that’s outrageous!

Billy:  Its amazing Sid, but that’s what a miracle is.  See today, today so many people preach that a miracle is instant and that a healing is gradual and nothing could be further from the truth.  Now if you get healed of something that’s terminal, but it takes three or four years it is just as much a miracle over time as it was instantly because the definition of miracle is something that defies logic, it’s not suppose to happen.  Whether it’s instant or whether it’s over time.  If it’s not suppose to happen and it happens it breaks all natural and logical understanding, then it comes into that category of a miracle.

Sid:  Now, I have to tell you I have been intrigued in studying the supernatural of God for over thirty years as a believer in the Messiah and I was listening to your CD which we’re making available this week along with your book, “Freedom From Fatal Thinking.”  The CD is “How to Manifest Your Miracle” and there is an anointing on that because I have to tell you, I felt like I wanted to listen to it for a second time and then a third time, it’s like you don’t hear everything when you hear it the first time.  Have you noticed that?

Billy:  Well, that’s the anointing I think that there’s information and then there’s anointing.  And I think that when you hear the anointing there is something in you that says well I’ve got to hear that more, see it more, I’ve got to touch it.  The anointing is that supernatural connector that brings things from the head to the heart and into our life.  And I think that were all when we hear something that’s anointed it is kind a like I need more of it.  Because our spiritual man craves the anointing, now our spiritual man doesn’t just crave information; our spiritual man craves that anointing.

Sid:  Well, I have to tell you I crave listening to that teaching!  I really, you know I told you that before we went on the air, this is not a politically correct thing to do I’m just saying I enjoyed it so much.  But, I want our Mishpochah, our family to understand what happened in your life because that’s why that anointing is there.  At age nine, I mean in 1962 you’re diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and how long did they give you to live?

Billy:  Three days, I was discharged in the hospital against doctor’s wishes; my Grandmother was an avid listener to the Kathryn Kulman Ministry although I had never been there or seen her.  I was raised Christian Missionary Alliance and of course we believe in healing through prayer as a lot of people do.  But of course the radical approach of her back then was not so much healing through prayer, but the Holy Spirit moving through a vessel.

Sid:  And not only that, if I was to pick a vessel that would not get glory from man, I mean she spoked a little funny, she acted a little strange, she dressed a little strange you know for back then especially.  And most people that if they didn’t understand it was God they’d say, “That’s not God!”

Billy:  That’s right, well that’s because we’re so naturally minded like Samuel told Jesse, “Man looks on the outward part, but God looks at the heart.”  Long story short, I was discharged with three days to live, the cancer had metastasized into my lungs; my eyes were crossed into my head and I could hardly walk and my motor skills were deteriorating quickly.  And I was sitting in the balcony watching with a patch over my eye, because I had double vision and lot of pain.  I mean there was no medicine at that time that could ease the pain that I was in and I was watching her service.

Sid:  How does a nine year old, where you told that you were going to die in three days?  Did you know that?

Billy:  Well yeah, you have a sense that you’re not getting better you know and of course you could see the look on my parents face and everybody’s face; but when I was discharged from the hospital an important part of this miracle, Kathryn was used to harvest the miracle, but my grandmother spent four days with me and she would say to me, “When she touches you, when she touches you.” Every waking moment that I was able to hear or understand my Grandmother was in front of me saying, “When she touches you and of course you will be healed,” so that seed of preparation was planted.

Sid:  You know your grandmother must have really believed you were going to be healed.

Billy:  Yeah Sid, she was an amazing woman and I wish that we could all have a grandmother like her or I’m sure that many of your viewers do, but that was the preparation that I had.  Not knowing I’m wondering today how did she even know that I was going to get called out of all those people like 2,000 people in that meeting?  And she called me out and…

Sid:  But just out of curiosity you’re sitting there, you have throbbing pain, you have a patch over an eye, you have terminal brain cancer, and I understand your body was filled with lumps!

Billy:  Exactly, all over my back was probably two or three inches high.

Sid:  I mean you are a walking mess!

Billy:  Yeah, it was pretty bad.

Sid:  And you probably did not have much strength I would think.

Billy:  Now much strength, still though I have to say in that meeting, you know there in lies that mystery of anointing, I could feel something intangible.

Sid:  Had you ever felt that type of presence before?

Billy:  Never, never, never, never.  And I wouldn’t come out of the balcony when she called, I was afraid.

Sid:  Why?

Billy:  I was afraid so she sent her ushers up to get me.

Sid:  How did she call you?  Describe that.

Billy:  I was watching over the railing with one eye; I was watching her operate like I’d never seen anything like that in my life.  And when she turned around and she said, “You young boy get down here!”

Sid:  Well, maybe there was another young boy there, or did you know that it was you?

Billy:  Well, she pointed at me and I tell people it was like her finger touched my nose.  I mean it was not that big of a sanctuary, the balcony to the down stairs isn’t that huge of an auditorium so it was pretty obvious that she was pointing right at me.  She said, “You are being healed of cancer, get down here!” So it was supernatural and like I said, I didn’t want to come out so I yelled real loud, “No,” because I was afraid.  She said, “The second time, I said, get down here!” And I said the second time “No” and then she said the third time “Ushers get him down here!”

Sid:  You must have been very fearful as a nine year old.

Billy:  I was, I was and I ain’t going to lie, I was very and so my grandmother and my mother went with me.  Two ushers came up to get me and took me down to meet her and then the rest, I stood in front of her and she said to me “What’s your name?”  I told her my name and she said, “Do you believe?” And she bend down her face was right in my face and she said, “I want to know one thing from you, do you believe?” And I shook my head, yes and she turned around to walk away and then she spun around, “I said, do you believe?”

Sid:  I can picture that because I had the privilege of seeing her also.

Billy:  And the power hit me, I tell people, “I couldn’t get up, I tried to move, I could not move a body part, I was pinned to that marble floor,” and Sid what I felt it wasn’t of this planet.

Sid:  As a nine year old, what did you think?

Billy:  I didn’t know what to think, I was feeling.  I was too busy feeling from my head to my toes a radiating, a radiating presence that was just unbelievable.  And they brought me up because I couldn’t get up; I tried to move my arms and they were pinned to the floor and I was paralyzed basically in my mind, and wow, I’ve died somethings happened to me and they brought me up and she said, “Oh my, you need more, you need more of the Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit.  And the second time three rows of people went with me, three rows all across that church fell under the power at the same time and people were laying everywhere; and then that’s whenever she said, “If there is anybody in the auditorium that has leukemia especially teenagers or children with cancer, get up right now, there is something coming from this boy.”

Sid:  So she did say, “Come up so I can lay hands on you,” she said, “Come up because something is radiating out your body.”

Billy:  That’s what she said, that’s what she said, now later I met the usher that caught me here maybe ten years ago, he was at one in my meeting.  I never knew him and he later explained to me that he was the usher that she sent into the balcony to receive, to get me to retrieve me.  And so we went out and had lunch and he filled me in on some of the details of course that I wasn’t aware or my family, but that was a great moment.  When I got up the second time she said, “Get that patch off your eyes.”  Well, my eyes were straightened out and no more double vision, the pain was gone, my paralysis was gone, my speech came back, I mean it was a happy moment.  Not fully comprehending it, it was a happy moment.

Sid:  What did she make any pronouncements about your terminal brain cancer?

Billy:  She said, you know basically what, “You’re healed, I don’t know the exact words, but she said “You, the Holy Ghost has touched you, you are healed,” and later on I found out that she was laughing about it after the service.  She was joking about it to the workers like, “That boy would not come out of the balcony and we had to go get him and pry him out of there.

Sid:  I know, but what did the doctors say?  That’s what I’d like to know?

Billy:  They were amazed; the doctors came to my home it was not long after that, because they told my grandmother and my parents, “That if you discharge him he will be a vegetable in a matter of weeks.”

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, this is so important we’ll pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast, but Billy I even want to go into a little more depth in what happened to you are that time.

Sid:  My guest is red hot for Messiah, and it’s contagious.  You just keep listening to us and you’ll end up being red hot for the Messiah; but as I understand the Word of God that’s normal.  Jesus put it this way, “I’d rather you be hot or cold but if you are lukewarm in the Greek it actually says that I’ll vomit you out of my mouth.  What is going…Dennis Walker, if you were to define and I know that you are not the judge and I am not the judge, but if we were forced to define the average American Christian, especially I live here in the South, everyone says that they are a Christian; I would say lukewarm is the temperature.  What’s going to change all of that?

Dennis:  Well, I believe that God is destined for people to know Him in a greater way especially as things get closer to the end of the age there will be such an urgency in the heart of God that done should perish that He will give such an effective witness through His people that He is going to awaken people through catching them into Heavenly encounters.  In fact I believe there are people all over the world right now that are being caught up in dreams, caught up in just they’re soaking and meditating times; they’re seeing things in Heaven.  And this is an activation that is going on all across the world.

Sid:   Do you know what I’m hearing Dennis is I’m hearing unsaved Jewish people; unsaved Moslems are having these dreams and visions of Jesus.

Dennis:  Yep, and I don’t think God is going to leave the Christian people behind.

Sid:  Oh please, help us get in on it. Ha-ha.

Dennis:  Ha-ha.

Sid:  Well, that’s what Joel says in the last days.  God’s going to pour out His Spirit on all flesh and we are going to all have dreams and visions. 

Dennis:  That’s right.

Sid:  And if not now, when?  I have never seen things speeding up as much as they are on planet earth right now, ever in my entire life.  I mean it’s almost … I’m curious what you think about this but feel to me like time is speeding up, being compressed.

Dennis:  Yes, it is.  I mean things are getting stronger both in the dark side of things, the enemy is stirring things up and things look darker and you know people could look at that and focus on that but don’t focus on those things.  Focus on what God is doing, because He is stirring up new life and new faith…

Sid:  Well, we were talking about the economy and that was the main point before we went on the air and that was the main point you were talking about, you said sure, I see these things going but what’s going to happen to those that hear the initiatives of Heaven if the bottom falls out in the economy in the US and a number of other countries?

Dennis:  I believe that we are going to have to learn to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.  Isn’t that what the word says?  Man will not live by bread alone, but by every word.  That’s the initiative of Heaven what God instructs and you are going to see miraculous provision, you’re going to see things happen.  Like the woman who I had a word of knowledge in a meeting and proclaimed God’s going to pay off your debts if you run up here.  She ran up with her husband…

Sid:  Out of curiosity was she the only one that ran up? 

Dennis:  She was, everyone else was in shock. 

Sid:  Oh, when they hear what happened, I bet they are sorry they didn’t run up.  What happened?

Dennis:  Well, what happened was a year later she came into me and she said, do you remember that word about my debts being paid off.  And I said, yes.  She said I went two days after that meeting I went to the bank to make a payment on this huge debt that we thought that we thought we would never paid off and all of the debt was paid off.  I asked them, when was that?  They looked it up in the computer; it was the very day you spoke that my debts were paid off in Jesus name.  It was paid off.  Then I asked them, well who paid it off?  And they called the person who was there at the transaction for the bank.  This woman wants to know who paid this debt?  And he looked at her strangely, and he said, don’t you remember you came in, you counted out the money, I took the money and gave you a receipt.  You don’t recall this?  And she kind a said, okay yeah, I remember and walked away.  But then she realized God had sent an angel in her shape and form to pay off that debt so that the eye witness, the man who attended the transaction would see that it was her.

Sid:  Tell me about the time that you were translated to Peru.

Dennis:  Oh, that was in my tent, I’d been spending time in this little pup tent in the presence of the Lord having the Lord just invade my life and show me things in Heaven and one day, I came in expecting to look and see into Heaven again and be caught up into heavenly places; but I went flying over a geography.  It was very different from other times and finally I realized I am flying down the Andes Mountain, down the Whaga(?) River Valley and I flew into the city of Wanako, Peru…

Sid:   Now, this has not happened to me, but what in the world is going on through your mind as you are flying across the globe?  What’s going on?

Dennis:  I’m in marvel, I’m just absolutely marveling at all of this and seeing this, but I have already learned, I have had enough encounters with the Lord in this tent and in Heavenly places that you go with the flow.  You don’t get to skeptical; you know you can always look at things and analyze it later.  During the experience don’t be to analytical, analyze later so I’m just going with this experience and suddenly I found myself standing next to a bed of a pastor who had a few days earlier called me and said that they had diagnosed him with a very difficult hard situation that if he didn’t leave ministry he would die.  And as I stood next to him…

Sid:  And you know who’s behind that, the devil.

Dennis:  That’s exactly right; he wanted to take him out.  So I laid my hand on his chest and I commanded healing and I believe that’s why God had brought me there.  And then I went to the other side of the bed where his wife was also asleep and laid my had on her head and I proclaimed on her a renewed experience with the Holy Spirit.  And she had been originally baptized in the Holy Spirit she could not speak Spanish, her native language for ten days.  And so I just decreed…

Sid:  You mean she was just speaking in a supernatural language the whole time and couldn’t speak a word that from her understanding which happened to be Spanish.

Dennis:  And her husband actually called me after four days of this the first time and asked me will she ever speak Spanish again?  Ha-ha.

Sid:  Ha-ha.

Dennis:  I assured him that she would, that God was bringing a tremendous change into her life and to let it play out.  Well, anyway we called this couple two days later and finally got a hold of them, we had been trying to call.  And I told my wife what had happened and all the rest and so we called and I said, “Edgar what happened?”  Pastor, what’s going on and he said, “Two nights ago I had an experience in the middle of the night.  The Spirit of God came on me and suddenly I have no more symptoms of this heart condition.  I am absolutely free of all the pain.”  And I said, “How is your wife?”  And he said, “That same night, she got hit with the Holy Spirit again and now for two days she has not been able to speak her native language later he confirmed that that actually went on for fifteen more days, fifteen total days that she couldn’t speak her normal language.”

Sid: Now, did you tell him what went on?  How he happened to be healed?

Dennis:  After they had told me what had happened then I said the reason I’m calling is this and I told him the story.  And they were just amazed that God had sent me in the Spirit to stand by them in the Spirit and to proclaim healing and deliverance over them.

Sid:  So what are you going to say to the person that’s listening to us right now, that is wonderful for Dennis Walker, but what about me, am I Swiss Cheese?

Dennis:  Ha-ha, well yeah, you’re holy.

Sid:  Oh my, oh my goodness, that’s as bad as mine, but go ahead.  Ha-ha.

Dennis:  Ha-ha, God by the blood of Jesus is giving you the same access into His presence that I have and the only thing that it takes is a little bit of faith.  Faith comes by hearing the word of
God.  It is the word of God that proclaims to seek those things which are above where Christ is sitting above at the right hand of the Father.

Sid:  Do you see that everyone listening to us right now that is born from above; that sits under the teaching …… will be able to have experiences like that and maybe even greater?  Do you really believe that?

Dennis:  Absolutely, I mean I see it so clearly in scripture, Jesus said, “Whoever believes in me the works that I do, he will do also, you just have to learn to do His work His way, you can’t do it your own way. 

Sid: Now the name of your book “Catching the Initiatives of Heaven,” explain exactly what the initiatives from Heaven are.  The one thing you make a big point of; it is not a formula.

Dennis:  That’s right, everything and every situation will be different, but it all comes from what God starts.  You know the word of God says I John 5:4 “Whatever is born of God overcomes the world.”  And I see that that’s exactly what Jesus did, He said He did this in John 5:19 that he could do nothing of himself but what He saw the Father do.  In other word He is following the Father’s lead.  And by the way it wasn’t just in the New Testament.  Moses did all of the works that he did by being directed by God from Heaven.  He caught these initiatives just like Jesus later.  And actually the word of God to Moses was “There will come a prophet like unto you hear him.  And so they were both moving in this directed from Heaven thing that I call the initiatives of Heaven, they were being directed by Heaven.  I believe all of the prophets throughout the Old and New Testaments; all of the disciples that did the works of Heaven in the New Testament were being directed by Heaven.  I believe that’s what Jesus taught His disciples how to hear and how to see and how to move in these things.  And then He said to them, you are going to do the works that I do because I am going the Father.

Sid:  Oh, what a difference would it make in the United States if in the White House, if in Congress, if in Senate; there were only one or two that were operating under the initiatives from Heaven.  Could you picture what would go on?

Dennis:  I don’t think it takes too many people to make a big difference, in fact in Abraham’s day when he was negotiating for the very life of a city and with Abraham he said it came down to ten people.  The ten people could change the destiny of a city and I believe for you and I today it comes down to who will become activated to see the salvation of nations?

Sid:  Is it our choice to be activated?

Dennis:  Absolutely!  Absolutely!  You know I just believe that the Bible tells us that these things are ours.  The Word of God in Colossians 3:1 and 2 gives us a command, it says seek,  that’s command, seek those things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, at the right hand of God.  Now it’s our decision.  Are we going to seek these things or not?  Jesus said whenever you seek it you will find it.  And then in the very next verse it even tells you how to seek it.  He said set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

Sid:  Oh, our time is slipping away, we will pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid:  That ancient spiritual Jewish DNA is finally comingling with the Gentile Christian spiritual DNA to make the full dwelling place for God.  That’s why miracles are increasing with such intensity.  I believe the Messiah is getting ready to return and one of the keys in understanding the return of the Messiah is to understand Israel from a spiritual viewpoint of the repercussions of everything God is doing with natural Israel now has repercussions on the church repercussions on the end times.  And that’s why I invited my good friend, Rabbi Michael Zeitler to talk about his brand new book called “Why is Israel Supernatural, the Eagle the Lion and Miracles.”  Why did you come up with that title Michael?

Michael:  Because it’s true, it’s the miracles of God that have proven themselves from time and memorial concerning Israel.  The Eagle represents the United States; the Lion represents the Lion of Judah, Israel; and the miracles that have taken place over the centuries and even before when Israel was a country that was established under the blessing of Abraham and then through Joshua and the twelve tribes clearly states that it is His land and it is His hand that is upon that land.

Sid:  But you know the thing that I’m finding fascinating and since we’re good friends and you call me often after you have a chance to speak about the miracles of Israel and blow the shofar, there’s a magnitude of the miraculous to a level that you’ve never seen before.  For instance, tell me about the time you blew the shofar recently and how many deaf people had their ears open?

Michael:  Yeah Sid, I was in a city in Peru and the Lord directed me to blow the shofar, I didn’t prep anybody, say anything to anybody I just blew the shofar and this was after talking about the fig tree and the last days and the fig tree is the nation of Israel and that Yeshua said to watch the season.  You’ll know the seasons when the fig tree is ready to bring forth fruit and explained it in detail because these people don’t even read the Old Testament, the majority.  And so they really did not understand, but when God specifically said through Holy Spirit to blow the shofar, I blew it and afterwards I made a statement through my interpreter that the Lord had said that he opened up the ears of the death when the high note of the shofar was sounded.  And I asked if those that had that happen to them and their deafness or partial hearing had been restored would come forward and twelve people came forward to testify that their ears were opened by the Lord’s hand.

Sid: Now, since you’ve been, and I know you have been in Peru for a while, since you’ve been in Peru how long have you been in Peru and about how many miracle healings have people testified to.

Michael:  Thank you for asking, I’ve only been here for a little less than three months; I found myself with the opportunity that God was opening up so many doors that I’ve never experienced before it made no sense to go back home.  And I have seen over a thousand miraculous healings from tumors disappearing to deafness, and when I say deafness I had two people, two young girls that were born deaf and God opened the ears of both of them.  And it was also again, while I either laid hands on them or blew the shofar; and there has been over 200 salvations, the greatest miracle of those coming to accept Yeshua for the first time.

Sid:  Okay, I want to find out how this Messianic Jewish Rabbi, Michael Zeitler became a fanatic for the Messiah of Israel, Jesus the anointed one.  At age eight you were set up to never want to hear about Jesus, what happened to you?

Michael:  Well, I grew up in a primarily a Protestant Catholic neighborhood, I had Jewish friends, I was raised in a reformed Jewish home and was Bar mitvahed at thirteen but primarily my friends during the week from school and in my neighborhood were Protestant and Catholic…

Sid:  Out of curiosity were both of your parents Jewish?

Michael:  Yes, oh yes.

Sid:  Okay.

Michael:  All of us.

Sid:  Look, the Rabbi’s ask me that all the time so I figured I’d ask you that.  Ha ha

Michael:  Ha ha.  Yes, it’s true as far back as you can go.  And so my friends came home from school and they had gone to religious instruction and these were good friends Sid.  And one of them had a yellow broom stick in his hand and he started slamming it down in the middle of the street in front of me screaming and yelling at me that I killed Jesus, that I was a Jew.  And after that I can’t explain to you why…

Sid:  Now at eight did you have any idea why he was doing that?

Michael:  No, because I didn’t even know anything about, you know in synagogue you’re not taught about Jesus so I mean I knew about Jesus, but I didn’t know anything about what he was talking about, I ran home crying.  But after that every time the name Jesus was mentioned and I can’t understand why this happened, but every time I would smell baby’s vomit; an infant’s vomit in my nostril’s physically every time I would hear the name Jesus mentioned. 

Sid:  So, as I said, Michael was set up almost a picket, supernatural fence, a demonic picket supernatural fence was set up that he would never be able to hear the true gospel; because he just literally he would get nauseated when he would hear the name Jesus.  So you were bar mitzvah and that graduated into a worldly atmosphere, it is hard to believe but you really had hair down to your shoulders?

Michael:  Yes, I had hair down to my shoulders and I had a mustache and I was a hippie, I was into sex, drugs, rock and roll and you know all the other things that are tied to it.

Sid:  How’s that nice Jewish boy get involved in witchcraft?  How did that happen?

Michael:  Well, I was seeking and one day in high school I met a witch and through that I got more and more interested in it, I was always interested in psyche phenomena, I was always interested in all of that stuff; garbage but back then it was really a tremendous interest for me.  And I got involved with other pagans and other witches, started to learn how to read tarot cards and crystal balls and do potions and worship the goddess of the moon.  And get this Sid the great horn god of nature, I didn’t put the two and two together and figure out that that was Satan; I thought it was somebody else.

Sid:  And so you graduated, you actually became a white witch.

Michael:  That’s correct.

Sid:  Now, what is a white witch?

Michael:  Basically, witches believe in the religion of Wicca and it’s an ancient religion, Wicca means the old English term, the wise ones.  So they would be using different kinds of potions and herbal remedies and what have you.  But also there’s a black side of witchcraft, and of course I now know that I worked for the same boss, Satan, but they hate Satanists, the witches don’t associate.  And a black witch is someone that blackness is black magic; however witches have a general understanding that anything that you do to someone whether it’s good or bad will come back to you three times.  So that’s a good incentive not to be a black practicing witch.

Sid:  Okay, so you have hair down to your shoulders and you graduate from witchcraft to Buddhism, what’s a nice Jewish boy doing in Buddhism?

Michael:  Well, what do they call us wandering Jews, isn’t that a term?

Sid:  Right.

Michael:  We’re seekers, if we don’t get plugged into God like the Orthodox that are so zealous and religious for Adonai then we find other things.  And so my cousin came along explained to me about this new Buddhism from Japan called “Neturinshoshu(?)

Sid: I can’t even pronounce that, but go ahead.  Ha-ha

Michael:  Ha ha, all you have to do is pray and have these prayer beads and every hour of every day you pray this ancient Japanese prayer

Sid:  How long did you pray every day?

Michael:  Oh, my goodness, sometimes when I got together with my friends we go for two or three hours.

Sid:  You know, most Christians who are praying authentically to God don’t pray that much.

Michael:  I know, I know and we be rubbing these beads together, we would be saying this prayer. Yom   Jehovah in Gaeile, which is very popular today in Hollywood, I’ve heard some actors say it even in the movies.  And it sounded like a beehive when they were all going at the same time.  It was crazy; it was wild.

Sid:  Okay, so now you’re a legitimate Buddhist, former white witch or maybe you’re still a white witch and a Buddhist and you have a girl friend, she’s from Peru.  She goes to Peru you go with her and its Easter time and you are a nice Jewish boy and you don’t want to go to church on Easter. 

Michael:  Not at all. 

Sid:  But, you’re a Buddhist and you chant three hours a day and you have these beads and you’re into white witchcraft, but you don’t want to go to an Easter service, okay.  It’s a crazy world Michael. 

Sid:  I remember talking to a man once and he was a prophet and he had a vision of someone’s heart and when he looked at this person’s heart through use of a gift of the Spirit he saw cracks all over the heart and he said boy, you must have been hurt a lot.  My guest who’s been a guest previously on Messianic Vision is Mark Virkler.  And Mark has produced a CD series called prayers that heal the heart.  And Mark after going through this just based on my experience of being a human for all of these years, most people have areas of their life where their heart has been broken.  Is that your experience?

Mark:  Sid, that’s exactly my experience.  When I first got saved, Jesus healed my heart and I felt very very free but, after I’d lived for twenty more years after that I had a lot of wounds that had built up.  I’d been through tough situations and put up walls and my heart was much more wounded and hurt twenty years after I got saved than the day I got saved.

Sid:   Now, just out of curiosity you have a program with seven supernatural prayers that when someone prays these prayers with understanding you say it will totally dismantle a demon’s home and then it’s easy as opposed to difficult to get that demon to leave what they consider to be their home; and people experience freedom.  I don’t get it, but you were in ministry all of these years.  There’s issue of whether a Christian can have a demon or not; will just put that one aside.  How after being in effective ministry for all these years did you need your heart healed and did you need these demons cast out of you?

Mark:  Well, I was on a trip to Australia to teach for twenty-one days and when I got there during the worship time I just realized I’m spending my time battling fear, fear of rejection, self rejection, anger, hatred and I spent the whole 45 minutes of worship time binding any demons that were causing that.  And I realized you know Mark you’re really messed up here, you really should not need to spend forty-five minutes of worship time just binding demons and getting these negative pressures away from you.  You shouldn’t have to war negative pressures within you so consistently.  And I had picked those up because life had slapped me up and I lost a few jobs, got wounded, got hurt, put up walls of defensiveness and demons came along and said we can help you with those walls of defensiveness and so I was pretty messed up.

Sid:  But if someone had walked up to you and said Mark, I discern you have a demon I don’t think you would have received that until you realized it yourself.

Mark:  Well, your right you know most people don’t want to say gee I got a demon here, you know its kind a hard pill to swallow here for a lot of people.  It’s not so hard for me to swallow at this point because I believe Satan is a attacker, destroyer, he’s constantly out to do within and I believe we do fall into sin from time to time, I sure do and whenever I fall into sin there is a demon right handy saying I can help you with that one.  And So I find that were under attack and we can get mucked up pretty regularly and pretty easily so the need for deliverance isn’t a great big thing for me, it’s just a part of life.

Sid:  Okay, I happen to believe what you’re saying is correct and that’s why I’m making this available for our Mishpochah, but what about the question “Can a Christian have a demon?”

Mark:  Well, it’s a tough question I have debated that and the debate would go away if there was a verse in the Bible that answered it and there isn’t; there is no verse that says a Christian can have a demon.  And there’s no verse that says a Christian cannot have a demon; so what do we do when there is not clear verse on the topic?  I mean do we interpret some verses, interpret some principles, we try to make our best guess and that’s fine and I think that we ought to allow a variance of opinions since the Bible doesn’t clearly state it.  In my early years I didn’t believe that a Christian could have a demon, now I believe that they can and part of that came from examining the fruit of life.  The Bible says that you can test things by their fruit and I ran into a deacon in my church who came to me and said, “I believe I have a demon and by the time we were done ministering to him we had cast out several demons and his life was radically changed.  And so the fruit of life spoke back to me and said Mark maybe it is time to change your theology especially since there’s no clear verse on it, maybe you should allow life to speak to you.

Sid:  Yeah, but some would say how could a demon cohabit with a Spirit of God in the same body?

Mark:  Well, how can sickness cohabit with the Spirit of God in the same body?  I know lots of Christians who are sick and so do you and God is perfect health; so how can you have perfect health in your body and sickness at the same time?  And the answer that I see is that that there are many parts within us, we have a spirit, we have a soul with many compartments in our soul plus we have a body with many different areas of the body and yes our spirits indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but what we’re doing is working out our souls’ salvation and the light of God is getting brighter and brighter and as it does it drives darkness, sin, sickness and demons out as that light penetrates area after area of our inner being.

Sid:  Okay, listen that deal with sickness would push anyone over the line, I think that’s extremely convincing let’s talk about that first case that you were exposed to, that deacon.

Mark:  Well, this deacon came to me and he said, “You know I have a sin that I cannot overcome.”  He said “I prayed, I fasted I’ve beaten myself up, I’ve memorized scripture and this sin was lust and he said, I undress every woman every Sunday in church and it makes me so sick I can’t stand it and he said, do you think that it could be a demon?”  And I’d never cast a demon out of anyone, but I had heard about it so I said, well maybe and I so the elders of the church, two elders and me got together.  We prayed for this man and we commanded any demon of lust to manifest itself and come out, and a really gruff voice began to speak to us and this man began to shake and the voice said I’m not coming out.  At that point I decided a Christian can have a demon because I have a deacon in my church with a sin he can’t solve and a gruff voice speaking to me; and we said, “Yes, you are coming out.”  And we agreed and we commanded that thing come out with several other demons.  I went back and I checked with that deacon a month later, a year later and a few years later and I asked him, “Okay this sin issue of lust has it been dealt with?” “He said, now it’s like any other sin area of my life.  Now I can control it, I can crucify it, where before deliverance he could not control it and he could not crucify it.

Sid:  And I’ve seen the standard way of casting spirits out of people, did it take a long time to get rid of that spirit?

Mark:  Well, this was our first experience so we were inexperienced so, the first time we prayed nothing happened, so we said well we’ll just pray again and we did and the second time he began to vibrate and shake and it took an hour to get everything out.  But it’s now quite easy to get demons out because if we know how to detach them first then the deliverance process is smooth and easy, but back then I had no idea the steps of detachment which were the various different prayers that God taught me over the years.

Sid:  Now you were set free of a demon of fear in particular, fear of stroke.  Tell me about that. 

Mark:  Yeah exactly, my Grandfather died of what I pictured as a stroke when I was about seven or eight years of age somewhere around there.  It wasn’t exactly a stroke, but that’s the way as a child I remembered it and I was very close to my Grandfather.  I was traumatized and demons are not gentlemen so when I was traumatized my defenses were down so a demon of fear of stroke entered me and showed up in my dreams for the next ten – fifteen years.  And I would wake up five days out of the week generally with feeling I had had a stroke feeling I was paralyzed my mouth was paralyzed; my tongue was paralyzed, my arms where I couldn’t…they were bloated, I would shake it off and I would be okay.  And when we got in deliverance I asked the elders to pray for me and my wife and the two elders were in the living room sitting there and praying commanding the demon that I thought I wanted deliverance of to come out and that was depression and heaviness, but what actually came manifested was this stroke thing.  And Patti said I felt like my face was paralyzed, I felt like my tongue was paralyzed as they were commanding the demon to come out and Patti was sitting in the living room.  She said that it looked like my tongue was paralyzed and it came out with tears and I cried and it was released and the pressure was released and I’ve never had that dream since then and nor have I had fear of stroke.  And before then I didn’t even know what a stroke was but I remember going into the nurses office in high school saying to her I got chest pains, I think I am going to have a stroke; and a stroke is the head not the heart and…

Sid:  But seeing such fruit from this deliverance for a long period of time, you stopped praying for deliverance why?

Mark:  Well, I did after I prayed for a few hundred people for Christians to get delivered I got very frustrated, because in the day that I quit was when this man, we spent an hour shouting at this demon saying in the Name of Jesus we command this demon to leave now, and the demon was…the guy was shaking the guy was sweating and the gruff voice was saying I’m not coming out and we said you are coming out in Jesus name and it would not come out; and it didn’t come out.  And I was really frustrated because I said, “God, the Bible is very clear and at the Name of Jesus every knee must bow and this demon did not bow his knee and I have no idea why it didn’t work and I am so frustrated I am going to quit because I can’t understand what is going on here.  So I quit.

Sid:  For how long did you quit?

Mark:  Ha-ha, probably for about ten years or so.

Sid:  And you know what, the devil succeeded in taking away a part of your ministry that was a part of Jesus’ ministry.  He spent a lot of time casting demons out of people.

Mark:  He sure did, I have counted up all of His prayers for supernatural intervention and between 1/4 and 1/3 of His prays were to cast demons out of people and if He’s the pattern I’m following then that mean’s between 1/4 and 1/3 of my prayers I should be casting out demons out of people and for ten years I didn’t do that.

Sid:  Well, I think that it’s so wonderful for everyone that is listening to get their heart healed, and we’ll talk about that on tomorrows broadcast.  And once their heart is healed you’ve literally dismantled…these demons are like an attorney, they go after what they call legal rights.  But you can dismantle their legal rights and then they have to go.  But until you dismantle them it’s a fight; I like the idea of these seven supernatural prayers to dismantle all legal rights these spirits have on you.  And what’s it like to be free Mark, really free?

Mark:  Ha-ha I have been free now for the last ten to fifteen years of my life.  My heart doesn’t free, it doesn’t have rejection, it doesn’t have anger…

Sid:  Whoops we’re out of time.

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to move in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit and accomplish the destiny that God has for your life.  But what good is all that power if you don’t understand the road map of end time Bible prophecy.  You need both, you need to understand end time Bible prophecy and you need the power of God.  And that’s why I’m talking to Walid Shoebat and Walid was born in Bethlehem.  He was an ex-Moslem terrorist that fell madly in love with Jesus and madly in love with the Bible and I believe he was raised up; that’s why you see him on things like Fox News or O’Reilly, and on Shawn Hannidy and CNN because he was uniquely raised as Muslim terrorist.  Became a believer, studied the Bible and had such a clear revelation, which I might add is the clear revelation of many of the people in past generations had; but the last 30 years or so years in the United States we’ve taken a totally different direction and most people, and I believe it has satanic origins are confused about the end times.  Now Walid I would be remise with your background and your knowledge of end time Bible prophecy if I didn’t get your understanding of what in the world is going on in Egypt and all of these Middle East countries where the citizens are demanding new governments and there’s all these protests going on?  And it is just, I have never seen a time like this, what is does all of this mean?

Walid:  Well, the nations are enraged as the Bible says, that surrounds Israel and they will focus on Israel to basically remove the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.  We look at Egypt, the majority of the Egyptians today which ever gallop poll you’d like to see, you look at the few statics eighty-five percent want Sharia, eighty -four percent want the amputation of the hands of thieves.

Sid:  And again when you say Sharia that means Islamic law as interpreted by the Koran and the other holy books within in Islam.

Walid:  Absolutely.  In fact the new team that is basically revamping the constitution of Egypt are refusing to remove section two which says that Sharia is the law of the land.  And the pols tell us very clearly that the majority of the Egyptians, Tunisians, Algerians, Libyans want Sharia laws so… but they will do it through peaceful means.  Through stealth by peace he will deceive many; it is pretty clear in the Bible.  But the Bible tells us about Egypt as well in Isaiah 19 “The Lord comes riding in a swift cloud and is coming into Egypt.  When was the last time we’ve had a Sunday school in the West.  Today we will be teaching how the Lord Jesus Christ comes and fights in Egypt; He fights Muslims.  We look at the situation on victory day in Egypt in which the liaison of the Muslim Brotherhood gave a speech in which 2 million Egyptians chanted loud and clear, ————- (which means to Jerusalem we will march martyrs by the millions) never been shown on any of the major media on the west.

Sid:  Why do you believe the west is deliberately in the media hiding this from the American public?  Why?

Walid:  Well, it’s a very good question, because many in the west think that the progressives are naïve, it is true the progressives really look at Islam as a value system that matches theirs in many ways.  Al Gore’s ears are tickled when Islam talks about the big bang. Islam doesn’t believe in the Creation in the way that we do.  It believes in the Big Bang, Islam talks about the life, it doesn’t begin at the moment of conception, this tickles the ears of the abortionists, Islam believes in Hamas, the environmental protection which tickles the ears of the environment environmentalist.  Islam talks about Islamic socialism, ——–Islamic socialism which by the way, Egypt and Libya adheres to so it is a socialist system and also a Universalist just like the progressives believe in.  So they have a lot in commonality between the two.

Sid:  Okay, based on your understanding of the scriptures and the unrest that is unprecedented in the Middle East right now, tell me your scenario how this is going to play out.

Walid:  Well, the Islamist will use the hungry masses of Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and take advantage of basically robbing the revolution in the Arab world and taking over.  You have Roshal Rushe, head of An-Naba who is an Islamic apologist and he went back to Tunisia to basically become part of the electric process.  You have Usaface the Muslim Brotherhood, in fact it’s very clear that they want to take over Egypt, if you look at the statements of all of the Muslim Brotherhood leaders, they talk about America pulling out of Iraq and how America will not be able to withstand…

Sid:  Now, wait a second, I see on the news that the Islam Brotherhood is not a real terrorist group and really good guys.

Walid:  Well, if you look at the website of the Muslim Brotherhood, in the English it has one word on the top and it says Freedom.  In the Arabic language there is one word at the top of the website.  It is says Abdu Arabic word with two swords, there’s the two the ax that has been given to us by John, and Ahado simply means to prepare.  This word comes from the Koran, ————————– which means, prepare for them of military force to terrorize Allah’s enemy and your enemy.

Sid:  Now, wait a second our State Department has people that speak Arabic they certainly must know this.

Walid:  Of course they know this, but the State Department is in denial if it is true that the State Department cares about terrorism as much as Americans do how come they never proclaimed Saudi Arabia, which is the head of the snake that created Mohammedanism and built 90% of the Mosques in America as terror organization.  The Muslim Brotherhood is very clear, even if you look at the Badeia the supreme leader…

Sid:  …Okay so why don’t they look at Saudi Arabia and say that they’re doing all of this terrorism, why don’t they?

Walid:  Well, because President Bush said America is basically drunk with oil, America is addicted to oil.

Sid:  Speaking of oil, what is God showing you in the Bible what is going to happen to the oil in the Middle East?

Walid:  The oil is going to burn and this is in Isaiah Chapter 34 it is very clear.  Isaiah 34 gives us a context in end times in which it says in verse nine that “its streams shall be turned into pitch, pitch is zefet in the Hebrew, it can mean nothing else but oil, or petroleum.  It’s dust into brimstone, it’s land shall become burning pitch.  It’ll burn and Edom in this context of Isaiah 34 must be looked according to Ezekiel 25 in which it says that I will stretch out my arm against Edom and make it desolate from Teman and Dedan shall fall by the sword.

Sid:  Now tell me what my revelation and this is my revelation from God, means in this whole scenario.  My relation from God is and I really believe this is going to happen is Israel is going to discover oil.  I’m not sure how, whether there will be wells, or whether the Dead Sea will have an earthquake and it will be filled with oil.  But this is going to happen.  How’s that going to affect everything?

Walid:  Well, I’ve never studied in the Bible, maybe you have something I have never seen.

Sid:  No, no, I haven’t seen this in the Bible it is just a knowing inside of me.  How would that affect things if that occurs?

Walid:  Well, Israel will become wealthy. In fact if we look…

Sid:   Wait a second now, when we read Ezekiel now we see that the nation from the north is coming to get a plunder.

Walid:  That’s correct.

Sid:  Well, if Israel becomes wealthy that makes sense to me.

Walid:  Yes, there’s other plunders; the world will become hungry as well, they will come for cattle and good and possibly oil if it is discovered in Israel, but it’s very clear that these nations will be starving in which we will have a depletion of food and resource and water resources as the rivers are being basically smitten by God.  And let’s not forget that Ezekiel 38 is speaking of an invasion from the Southern parts of Russia as well as Turkey because all the Bible maps tell us Gomer back to Magog.  Magog if you look at any Bible map the McMillan Bible Atlas, the Moody Bible Atlas, the encyclopedia of Bible lands, the Oxford Bible Atlas they position those regions in Asia Minor and the Southern Republics of Russia which are by the way are all Muslim.

Sid:  Now, what is the destiny for Turkey because Turkey was always known as the most moderate of Muslim nations, but then we had that flotilla and then we had that outrage in Turkey against Israel and it seems to be changing now.  Where is Turkey based on the end times?

Walid:  Well, we must always look at what Christ said.  He talked about Pergamus, thou art the seat of Satan; this is no small reference that the seat of the Anti-Christ will be coming from Pergamus, which is in Turkey.  Including Chapter Ezekiel 30, on the day of the Lord.  God is dealing with Libya; we are watching Libya today as dealing with Sudan and Somalia.  Cush is also dealing with Libya in verse five.  Libya is Turkey, in fact in Zachariah Chapter Nine verse thirteen I will bend, Judah my bow and fit it with Israel line and I will set your sons oh Zion against your sons  oh Evan, Greece.  Ayonia is in Turkey; ancient Greece is not what we think of Athens and Cyprus.  Ancient Greece is in Turkey today.  So, even Christ is going forth as whirlwinds from the south.  If He’s coming from the south He’s going north towards Turkey to defeat the Turkish Empire.  Because the today the Turkish government wants to reestablish eastern Germany because it was bruised and they want to revive the ultimate Empire and the sole purpose of the Muslim Brotherhood to revive the calafate and that was basically bruised in Turkey.

Sid:  I have a question for you; you have it so laid out in your book “God’s War on Terror.”  Do you know any people high up in the Administration or in Congress or in the Senate that have read your book?  Because it’s literally a road map of what’s going to happen over the next few years.

Walid:  Well, I haven’t had any letters or emails in the top official government.

Sid:  Well, maybe through our radio and television show you are about to; but I can tell you this every Christian listening to my voice must must understand the prophecies of the end times. 

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to move in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit and accomplish the destiny that God has for your life.  But what good is all that power if you don’t understand the road map of end time Bible prophecy.  You need both, you need to understand end time Bible prophecy and you need the power of God.  And that’s why I’m talking to Walid Shoebat and Walid was born in Bethlehem.  He was an ex-Moslem terrorist that fell madly in love with Jesus and madly in love with the Bible and I believe he was raised up; that’s why you see him on things like Fox News or O’Reilly, and on Shawn Hannidy and CNN because he was uniquely raised as Muslim terrorist.  Became a believer, studied the Bible and had such a clear revelation, which I might add is the clear revelation of many of the people in past generations had; but the last 30 years or so years in the United States we’ve taken a totally different direction and most people, and I believe it has satanic origins are confused about the end times.  Now Walid I would be remise with your background and your knowledge of end time Bible prophecy if I didn’t get your understanding of what in the world is going on in Egypt and all of these Middle East countries where the citizens are demanding new governments and there’s all these protests going on?  And it is just, I have never seen a time like this, what is does all of this mean?

Walid:  Well, the nations are enraged as the Bible says, that surrounds Israel and they will focus on Israel to basically remove the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.  We look at Egypt, the majority of the Egyptians today which ever gallop poll you’d like to see, you look at the few statics eighty-five percent want Sharia, eighty -four percent want the amputation of the hands of thieves.

Sid:  And again when you say Sharia that means Islamic law as interpreted by the Koran and the other holy books within in Islam.

Walid:  Absolutely.  In fact the new team that is basically revamping the constitution of Egypt are refusing to remove section two which says that Sharia is the law of the land.  And the pols tell us very clearly that the majority of the Egyptians, Tunisians, Algerians, Libyans want Sharia laws so… but they will do it through peaceful means.  Through stealth by peace he will deceive many; it is pretty clear in the Bible.  But the Bible tells us about Egypt as well in Isaiah 19 “The Lord comes riding in a swift cloud and is coming into Egypt.  When was the last time we’ve had a Sunday school in the West.  Today we will be teaching how the Lord Jesus Christ comes and fights in Egypt; He fights Muslims.  We look at the situation on victory day in Egypt in which the liaison of the Muslim Brotherhood gave a speech in which 2 million Egyptians chanted loud and clear, ————- (which means to Jerusalem we will march martyrs by the millions) never been shown on any of the major media on the west. 

Sid:  Why do you believe the west is deliberately in the media hiding this from the American public?  Why?

Walid:  Well, it’s a very good question, because many in the west think that the progressives are naïve, it is true the progressives really look at Islam as a value system that matches theirs in many ways.  Al Gore’s ears are tickled when Islam talks about the big bang. Islam doesn’t believe in the Creation in the way that we do.  It believes in the Big Bang, Islam talks about the life, it doesn’t begin at the moment of conception, this tickles the ears of the abortionists, Islam believes in Hamas, the environmental protection which tickles the ears of the environment environmentalist.  Islam talks about Islamic socialism, ——–Islamic socialism which by the way, Egypt and Libya adheres to so it is a socialist system and also a Universalist just like the progressives believe in.  So they have a lot in commonality between the two.

Sid:  Okay, based on your understanding of the scriptures and the unrest that is unprecedented in the Middle East right now, tell me your scenario how this is going to play out.

Walid:  Well, the Islamist will use the hungry masses of Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and take advantage of basically robbing the revolution in the Arab world and taking over.  You have Roshal Rushe, head of An-Naba who is an Islamic apologist and he went back to Tunisia to basically become part of the electric process.  You have Usaface the Muslim Brotherhood, in fact it’s very clear that they want to take over Egypt, if you look at the statements of all of the Muslim Brotherhood leaders, they talk about America pulling out of Iraq and how America will not be able to withstand…

Sid:  Now, wait a second, I see on the news that the Islam Brotherhood is not a real terrorist group and really good guys.

Walid:  Well, if you look at the website of the Muslim Brotherhood, in the English it has one word on the top and it says Freedom.  In the Arabic language there is one word at the top of the website.  It is says Abdu Arabic word with two swords, there’s the two the ax that has been given to us by John, and Ahado simply means to prepare.  This word comes from the Koran, ————————– which means, prepare for them of military force to terrorize Allah’s enemy and your enemy.

Sid:  Now, wait a second our State Department has people that speak Arabic they certainly must know this.

Walid:  Of course they know this, but the State Department is in denial if it is true that the State Department cares about terrorism as much as Americans do how come they never proclaimed Saudi Arabia, which is the head of the snake that created Mohammedanism and built 90% of the Mosques in America as terror organization.  The Muslim Brotherhood is very clear, even if you look at the Badeia the supreme leader…

Sid:  …Okay so why don’t they look at Saudi Arabia and say that they’re doing all of this terrorism, why don’t they?

Walid:  Well, because President Bush said America is basically drunk with oil, America is addicted to oil.

Sid:  Speaking of oil, what is God showing you in the Bible what is going to happen to the oil in the Middle East?

Walid:  The oil is going to burn and this is in Isaiah Chapter 34 it is very clear.  Isaiah 34 gives us a context in end times in which it says in verse nine that “its streams shall be turned into pitch, pitch is zefet in the Hebrew, it can mean nothing else but oil, or petroleum.  It’s dust into brimstone, it’s land shall become burning pitch.  It’ll burn and Edom in this context of Isaiah 34 must be looked according to Ezekiel 25 in which it says that I will stretch out my arm against Edom and make it desolate from Teman and Dedan shall fall by the sword.

Sid:  Now tell me what my revelation and this is my revelation from God, means in this whole scenario.  My relation from God is and I really believe this is going to happen is Israel is going to discover oil.  I’m not sure how, whether there will be wells, or whether the Dead Sea will have an earthquake and it will be filled with oil.  But this is going to happen.  How’s that going to affect everything?

Walid:  Well, I’ve never studied in the Bible, maybe you have something I have never seen.

Sid:  No, no, I haven’t seen this in the Bible it is just a knowing inside of me.  How would that affect things if that occurs?

Walid:  Well, Israel will become wealthy. In fact if we look…

Sid:   Wait a second now, when we read Ezekiel now we see that the nation from the north is coming to get a plunder.

Walid:  That’s correct.

Sid:  Well, if Israel becomes wealthy that makes sense to me.

Walid:  Yes, there’s other plunders; the world will become hungry as well, they will come for cattle and good and possibly oil if it is discovered in Israel, but it’s very clear that these nations will be starving in which we will have a depletion of food and resource and water resources as the rivers are being basically smitten by God.  And let’s not forget that Ezekiel 38 is speaking of an invasion from the Southern parts of Russia as well as Turkey because all the Bible maps tell us Gomer back to Magog.  Magog if you look at any Bible map the McMillan Bible Atlas, the Moody Bible Atlas, the encyclopedia of Bible lands, the Oxford Bible Atlas they position those regions in Asia Minor and the Southern Republics of Russia which are by the way are all Muslim.

Sid:  Now, what is the destiny for Turkey because Turkey was always known as the most moderate of Muslim nations, but then we had that flotilla and then we had that outrage in Turkey against Israel and it seems to be changing now.  Where is Turkey based on the end times?

Walid:  Well, we must always look at what Christ said.  He talked about Pergamus, thou art the seat of Satan; this is no small reference that the seat of the Anti-Christ will be coming from Pergamus, which is in Turkey.  Including Chapter Ezekiel 30, on the day of the Lord.  God is dealing with Libya; we are watching Libya today as dealing with Sudan and Somalia.  Cush is also dealing with Libya in verse five.  Libya is Turkey, in fact in Zachariah Chapter Nine verse thirteen I will bend, Judah my bow and fit it with Israel line and I will set your sons oh Zion against your sons  oh Evan, Greece.  Ayonia is in Turkey; ancient Greece is not what we think of Athens and Cyprus.  Ancient Greece is in Turkey today.  So, even Christ is going forth as whirlwinds from the south.  If He’s coming from the south He’s going north towards Turkey to defeat the Turkish Empire.  Because the today the Turkish government wants to reestablish eastern Germany because it was bruised and they want to revive the ultimate Empire and the sole purpose of the Muslim Brotherhood to revive the calafate and that was basically bruised in Turkey.

Sid:  I have a question for you; you have it so laid out in your book “God’s War on Terror.”  Do you know any people high up in the Administration or in Congress or in the Senate that have read your book?  Because it’s literally a road map of what’s going to happen over the next few years.

Walid:  Well, I haven’t had any letters or emails in the top official government. 

Sid:  Well, maybe through our radio and television show you are about to; but I can tell you this every Christian listening to my voice must must understand the prophecies of the end times.