Sid Roth

Sid:  My guests Phillip & Darlena Fields from Get Real Ministries, I have been talking to them all week because they have put together based on their personal experiences, based on many many years of studying the Word of God the most dynamic course.  It’s called, “Transformation, Assessing God’s Promises,” every Christian in the world must take this course because there’s one or more areas’ where the devil had a stronghold and once you get rid.  It’s a forty day course, you should do this for yourself, you should do this right with your whole family, our staff is talking about doing this.  You should do it in Bible studies, you should do it in your church, it should be mandatory for every Christian, imagine Phillip imagine what churches would be like if everyone went through this course as part of their basic training.

Phillip:  Well, it would be fabulous and they would be transformed.

 Sid:  And speaking about being transformed they’d enter their destiny rather than walking in that big circle.  Like take Darlena, Darlena, if you had not gone through that, I mean God forbid if you had not been set free by the Lord.  Because of the family curses, because of the way you were raised you literally could be one of these woman that had killed your children and ended up in prison the rest of your life or even committed suicide yourself, but today you’re walking in your gifting.  You’ve even been translated multiple times; tell me a couple of times you’ve been translated.

Darlena:   Well, there’s three really outstanding times that do relate directly to our ministry.  My role in our ministry is to intercede for Phillip when he’s out on the road and when the first time that he went overseas to teach, he was in Amsterdam and when I was interceding for him, for a particular meeting in his office.  And when I say intercede I mean deeply in prayer and I had been praying for several minutes and then all of a sudden I felt like I just went in another place in my spirit although I was physically aware of my surrounding I was still pacing his office praying, but I felt like I was at the meeting in Amsterdam with Phillip.  And I could see him ministering to people at the altar and I could see them being touch by God by the way that they were manifesting and they’re crying and bent over.  And then I saw the focus was the people at the altar Phillip had called them forward and when he got home I was able, he began to talk about this particular meeting I was like “Yes, I know, I saw those people, I was there,” I began to describe the people what they were wearing.  And at the time I felt like the moment that my spirit was present was when he was praying for this one particular young man that looked like he was of Muslim decent and Phillip said that he was and that this young man got saved in his jail cell.  Jesus appeared to him in his cell and he accepted Christ and so when that’s when I was laying hands and praying for him.

Sid:  Phillip, when Darlena who wasn’t there described the man, described his testimony, described what was going on with the other people, what did you think?

Phillip:  Well, the only thing I could think was that that had to be the Lord because her observations and the details of what she was saying was as if she were in the room with me.

Sid:  You can’t get better intercession than that, Darlena tell me another story, because I’m fascinated by this.  See I believe the closer we get to the return of the Messiah more and more this will become normal.  But you would have never moved into this realm if you didn’t take care of all the strongholds in your life.

Darlena:  Yes, the more that I get free in Christ the more intimate I get with Him the more my gifts get profound.

 Sid:  Tell me one more story; I’m fascinated by being translated.

Darlena:  Another story that would probably be really exciting was when something I haven’t told many people, I was in deep intercession just in my home with worship playing in the background and all of a sudden I began to be deeply burdened for an African man whose name I didn’t know.  And I just began to intercede in the Spirit and then just in a moment, in seconds I felt like I was in Africa in my spirit it must have been a desert region because I saw red dirt and there was an African man, tall thin, dressed standing blindfolded with his hands tied behind his back.  And then there was three gunmen with their heads wrapped in black, all you could see was their eyes and they raised their guns and did what they do before the gun shoot, whatever that’s called, and I felt like; this is went so deep into prayer it was like my soul was being pulled on behalf of this man.  And as I was praying for his life to be spare a whirlwind of dirt came in between the gunman and the man and the gunmen appeared to be distraught at this whirlwind of dirt in between them.  And they put their guns down and all of a sudden it was just over and I felt like that it was done, what I was praying for was done, finished and the man life was spared.

Sid:  Well, I imagine when you got such confirmation of that first translation you began to really believe that you were in these places.

Darlena:  Yes, after the first couple experiences and Phillip would come back from ministering on the road and confirm what I had seen, you know when I had this experience, I felt like that it was the same thing, that it was someone that I didn’t know.

Sid:  Now, Darlena briefly tell me, you had a vision of the last days.  Tell me briefly what God showed you would happen.

Darlene:  Well, it came in three parts and I felt like what the Lord was showing me was the release of the first white horse after the first seal was opened and that is a conqueror on a conquest.

 Sid:  That’s from the book of Revelation of the last days.

Darlena:  In Revelation 6, “After the first seal was opened a white horse was released; it was a conqueror on a conquest.”  And the first words that I heard the Lord speak to me when I had been taken up with Him in this open vision was that “I’m in serious pursuit of my people.”  And I felt like I was getting a panoramic view of this horse and this glorious rider on the horse.  And I saw three rows of people; the first row represented people that had eyes to see and ears to hear the truth.  The second row of people were blind too religious possibly, the third row had their back to the horse and rider, they were unbelievers.  And when the horse and rider went by the first row of people that could see truth were thrown into the back of the horse and there was a fire coming out of the horse’s feet.  The second row of people were just swayed by the wind of the horse and left marred with like soot from the fire.  And then the third row of people a hole opened up in the ground and the people were sucked into it.  And for several months I wondered what the fire was.  And then the second vision came, showed me what happened to the people after they were thrown in the fire and I had assumed it was the fire of revival.  But the Lord corrected me and said, “There was refiners fire and once the people went through the refiners fire they were just shot up and then went into place in the army of the Lord.”  And I saw this great army and they were all walking in unison and in one accord and there was worshippers and dancers going before the army.  And so some people were thrown in front of the army as a worshiper or a dancer that make way to clear the spirit realm for the Lord’s presence to come.  And others were holding guns, others were on white horses on horseback holding swords and flags and banners.  And then my third vision was the horses stopped, the army stopped and the riders got off the horses and they began to charge and the Lord says “It’s time to take back your land.”  So I really feel like the three different visions line up with our motto for the transformation, possession God’s promises.

Sid:  I’m convinced that so many Christians 80 to 90% the pollsters tell us that are walking in a gigantic circle rather than walking into their destiny is because they were crippled either from curses, from generational curses or the way that they were raised.  And even though they’ve been fine believers and serve God as best they could, they are still the walking wounded.

Sid:  My guest, Joan Hunter is red hot for the Messiah.  As a young child she was taught by two of the best that understood the healing and miracle ministry; Francis and Charles Hunter known as the Happy Hunters who are now in heaven and she is building upon that foundation.  And the thing that you teach that I feel is so important is to be human is to have trauma, somewhere along your way.  Most of us have had traumas in childhood that we’ve totally forgotten, but we have physical diseases that are result of that trauma.  Even you talk in your book about the ph balance; you go from the natural to the supernatural; explain what your understanding of what trauma does to a body Joan Hunter.

Joan:  Well, it is amazing what it will do to a body, when my Mother passed away a couple of years ago, I remember you know I was like I told her body good bye and we had done all of that kind of stuff.  And it was like I’m getting ready to do television across the state of Illinois and I was just really, and I was like man this heaviness was coming on me, this trauma was coming on me, my voice was going.  Because a lot of time trauma will show up, it will affect the voice and I’m like, I can pray for the sick with no voice but I can’t do television or radio without a voice.  And I’m like God help me here and you know and I made it across the state, I got to my motel room, got in the shower and I’m like, “Father, right now in the name of Jesus I’m like (laryngitis voice) Father right now, I could hardly even talk.  I curse the spirit of trauma, I curse a spirit of grief that is trying to come and overtake me.  And I said, “I’m serving you an eviction notice you are trespassing on God’s property, you cannot come into this body in Jesus name.  And I command every bit of that to go and I said in the name of Jesus I command my voice to be restored in Jesus name and I went Hallelujah!”  And I looked around the room for my Mom, I’m like oh, my Mom said that you know because it sounds so much like my Mom.  But the heaviness the grief, the trauma left instantly.  Now I still miss my Mom, I still miss my Mom and Dad and you know, but the heaviness is gone, it’s just gone.  And there’s no grief, there’s no trauma you know and I don’t want to make light of the fact that there gone, but you know what the heaviness of their departure isn’t there.  And God took that away and one thing that we need to be real careful of is not letting any of that trauma and any of the memories to try to come back.  Because they’re going to come knocking at the door sometimes and you need to be prepared for that and to go, “Oh I know I deserve to be sorrowful, I deserve to you know wallow, I deserve to hang on to this stuff,” you know and it’s like I don’t want to hang on to any of that grief.  If I had not gotten rid of the grief and the trauma I would have not been able to even be on this radio program today because the enemy would have come in destroyed me with fibromyalgia and pain and sleeplessness and cancer.  It would have just eaten me up and like you say that is just really eating at me.  Well you know what, whatever is eating at you get rid of it and the manual teaches you how to get rid of all of this.  And then recently with what had happened in my past and the divorce of years ago, the betrayal of an unfaithful husband who is homosexual and you know recently there was a big you know news things about betrayal in this family and you know and how he had lied to her and I’m like, “Oh I can relate to that” and it was like I started reading the article a little bit and I’m like, “Oh, I rebuke this in the name of Jesus,” I shut the magazine and I said, “You know I am not going to allow the enemy to come in and remind me of the pain of my past and remind me of the betrayal that had happened almost twelve years ago.” I refuse to let the enemy do that so it’s very very important that we keep…

Sid:   You know what I believe; if you had not made that decision at that moment you would have given the enemy access to put cancer on you again.

Joan:  Absolutely, and the manual talks about where have we opened the door for sickness to come in.  We need to do a self examination, not self condemnation, but self examination and look at ourselves and say “Where, if I have opened up the door anywhere show me.”

Sid:  Now let’s suppose a doctor has just done a blood test and they say “You’re a good candidate for leukemia, we better keep an eye on you,” what would you do if you got a report like that, what advice would you give someone?”

Joan:  “I would say no, I would first of all say, “No I’m not, and I’d say,” you know like when I walk out of the doctor’s office, I mean because he told me he says you know, “You’re going to get diabetes, you’re going to get macular degeneration because you’re mother had it; you’re going to get this, you are going to get cancer, you are going to get blah, blah, blah.  I mean he went through the whole list you know because your fifty-eight years old now you’re going to get bam, bam, bam.  I’m like, “No I’m not you have a good day doctor, I’m not getting these things, I refuse them in Jesus name.”  And I walked out of the door and I said, “I cut those words off in Jesus name,” and then I went, I said “Father right now I thank you that you’re restoring my eyes like the eagles, you’re giving me a new pancreas in Jesus name.”  And I started going through everything that he said negative about me.

Sid:  Well, the good thing is it tells you what you’re to pay for.

Joan:  That’s right, I’m not opposed to going to doctors, you know I’ve got a doctor who’s a doctor.  I say, “Let’s go and let us figure out what’s wrong and then what’s wrong let’s pray specifically, very specifically for that to be turned around.”  Everything that he’s spoke over me that was a possibility is no longer a possibility because it’s gone.  In the “Healing Starts Now Manual” there is a chapter called nurture the natural man; that is a chapter written by my daughter who is a doctor.  I have incorporated in the book things that we need to do in the natural; for example, you get healed of diabetes, all right let’s go get donuts, ice cream, no!  Don’t do that, that’s abusing your body.  We live in a natural body, we need to do that.  Like I have somebody that says, I just want to worship God all night long and never sleep again.  Well, she almost killed herself because our bodies in the natural need sleep.

Sid:  Joan, there is a river of healing that is being released right now, I don’t think this, I know if you pray for people right now they’re going to have miracles!

Joan:  Where ever you hurt in your body, whatever is wrong, cancer, whatever, placed your hand on it and we’re going to in the name of Jesus speak it gone in Jesus name.  Father right now in the name of Jesus I send the word of healing through these radio waves right now in Jesus name, first of all I curse the spirit of trauma, rejection, abandonment, betrayal, any form of hopelessness I command it to be gone.  I curse any form of oppression, depression, I curse the fibromyalgia.  Command that spirit of pain to go spirit of fibromyalgia, spirit of chronic fatigue syndrome and the heaviness of depression that comes with it I command every bit of that to go.  I curse any spirit of cancer, I curse any prion in everybody command that to go, I curse MS in Jesus name.  I command all of the labels to be removed, ADD, COPD, post traumatic stress disorder, all these labels;  those labels are removed now in Jesus name.  I speak life, health, wholeness in Jesus name; I command new rotator cuffs, I speak two new knees in Jesus name.  New elbows, new vertebrae’s, new discs, I command the bodies to literally grow in height, I curse scoliosis in Jesus name, I command the proper curves to be restored to backs in Jesus name, and I curse any form of migraines in particular that have been brought on through trauma and trauma of even in the birth canal and the forceps, all the trauma to be gone, the stress to be completely relieved, any residual effect of stress on bodies right now in Jesus name  I command that to be gone.  I speak health and wholeness to the entire digestive system in Jesus name, I curse any form of constipation, IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, crones disease in Jesus name, I speak a brand new set of intestines, any form of endometriosis, female problems I command that to be gone.  Anybody that has had sexual abuse right now put your hands on your upper thighs, those are where your limp nodes are and that holds on to a lot of the sexual trauma right there.  Father right now in the name of Jesus I command that trauma from any form of sexual abuse to go in Jesus name, I command those limp nodes to be completely released of any storage of trauma in Jesus name.  And I curse any form of fear in any of these bodies in Jesus name and Father right now, everybody that listening put your hand on your head.  Father, in the name of Jesus I just speak like a Holy Ghost etch- a- sketch for their memories, the bad memories to be completely erased in Jesus name.  Every bit of pain that is associated with any form of betrayal, rejection, abuse, sexual included, verbal I command every bit of that to be completely completely wiped out in Jesus name, in Jesus name Hallelujah.

Sid: We want every everywhere to be Red Hot for the Messiah, and once you get this teaching and revelation of what the Jewish Patriarch knew and understand imparting the blessing.  I mean as Pastor Bill Ligon as you explained on yesterday’s broadcast the Jewish people without the power of the imparting of the blessing would have never survived in the desert.

Bill: Oh no, they could not have made it without these three pillars of faith operating in their lives; all three are what God used to transform them.  And it is the Aaronic blessing that releases God’s favor upon them.  You see many of God’s people have had the Blood Covenant, they’ve had the moral code, but they haven’t had the favor of God released upon them.  So we have a lot of people who are struggling in their lives because they do not have that favor and God wants them to have that favor released upon them.  In their personal lives, in their work place, and in their homes; He wants families to be united together and it is the Aaronic blessing that will bring that together in their homes.

Sid: Now, just out of curiosity, did you have your Father or someone pray this blessing over you?

Bill: Well, when I began to learn the principals my Father was deceased, he passed away six months after I was married.  But I had a brother twenty years my senior who was not a churchman, wasn’t active in church, didn’t have anything to do with church.  The fact is that a sister close of his age went down to Florida where he lived and tried to talk to him about the Lord and he told her if she was going to come and preach to him just to not come.  But he and I were together with our wives one tine in adjoining motel rooms visiting our Mother who was in a nursing home.  And I thought well, here’s my brother and I’m going to receive the Aaronic blessing from my brother, my older brother.  So I went to him, my wife and I went to him in his room with him and his wife and we called him Scottie.  And I said, “I said, I know that you love me?  He said, “Oh yes, you know I love you.”  And I said, “Well do you want good things for my wife and my children and me or bad things?”  He said, he called me son, he said, “Oh son, you know I want good things.”  I said, “Well, God will release those upon me if you will speak them over me and I have these blessings here prepared for you.  Would you right now, I am going to just get in front of you on my knees in front of you and would you put your hands on me and would you then say then, “May the Lord bless you with and begin to release these upon my life?”  He did Sid and when he did, the Spirit of God came upon him and he began to cry I could feel his tears dropping down on my cheeks and on my shoulder.  And when he got through blessing me, he then got on his knees and he said, “Now do it to me.”  And I was able to release blessings upon my older brother, twenty years my senior.  I could release blessing upon him and while I had my hand upon him I said, “May the Lord reveal himself to you, may the Lord fill you with His love and his grace and may the Lord give you understanding of salvation and may the Lord make you a part of His family.”  Well shortly after that his wife passed away and he moved up to Boise, Idaho to be near his daughter and one day she called me and said, “Uncle Bill, Dad just had a heart attack and died.”  So I flew up there and her pastor said, came to me and said, “I guess you were concerned about your brother.”  I said, “Well, I was,” he said, “You need to know that when he came here his daughter brought him to church, he heard the gospel and he gave his heart to the Lord.”  And I believe Sid, that it was that blessing that I was able to speak over my brother the same man who told my sister not to preach to him, I believe that’s what God used to transform his life and bring him into the kingdom of God.  Just like I believe it happened in your father’s life when he spoke blessing over you.

Sid: You know my father came to the Lord on his death bed literally, but when I asked him to pray the Aaronic benediction over me I knew that he couldn’t figure out why I was asking him to pray it.  Even though he was an Orthodox Jew; I mean here his son believes in Jesus; it doesn’t make any sense, but I also believe, like your brother, that when I asked him to pray something very supernatural occurred.  What about you when your brother prayed over you, when your brother prayed for you, what effect did it have?

Bill: It had a tremendous impact on my life and I began to have favor from God after he did it.  And one of the things that some people don’t realize is that certain people have a position in your life before God like a Father even though he may not be a churchman or may not be at all interested in the things of God has a position before God.  He has a parental office before God.  My older brother had a position before God with me.  And even though he wasn’t a churchman and wasn’t a believer at the time, never the less when he spoke that blessing God was present and God did exactly what God said He would do and he’ll do it for other people too.

Sid: What about someone that says, “My Father is dead, or he won’t pray over me, I don’t have any brothers to pray over me, am I Iost with this blessing?”

Bill: Oh no, I have encouraged if someone says my Father’s deceased and I don’t have someone in my family who could do that I’ve encouraged them to ask there pastor and his wife to have a blessing service kind of like a bar mitzvah or bat mitzvah and speak blessing over them.

Sid: Actually in your workbook and your teaching you recommend people if they’ve never had this type of a blessing; a bar mitzvah or bat mitzvah you actually recommend no matter what their age they should have it.

Bill: Exactly, I think that every person is deficient until they have that blessing spoken over their lives.  And I encourage everyone to do that and we give them full instruction in this material on how to do it.  My wife gives information on how to have, you know the word, bar means son, right and mitzvah is a commandment.  So when whose bar mitzvah is a son who has embraced the commandments to keep the commandments and bat means daughter.  So that’s a daughter of the commandments who has committed herself to keep the commandments of God.

Sid: Okay, we found out that you and your wife bless each other every morning and it has made the difference between you being emotionally attached and unified in spirit.  It’s transformed your marriage, what about your two sons?  Tell me about them.

Bill: From the time we began to understand the principals of blessing we started laying hand on them and blessing them, speaking blessing over their lives.  And one of the great joys has been to have them turn around and lay hands on us and speak blessing over us.  And now our older son has five children and he and his wife speak blessing over those children every day, but one of the interesting things is that when they get though the children who are small they are from ages four to ten, they speak blessing over their parents and before their Dad leaves for work every day they speak blessing over his life.

Sid: So tell me about; let’s start with your older son, what happened in his life as he’s an adult now.

Bill: Well, when he was leaving for college, Sid he called me into his room and he fell to his knees and he said, “Dad bless me one more time before I leave.”  And so I spoke blessing over him and then he got in his car and he drove off.  And then years later after he became an attorney he was raised up as a municipal judge in our city and when he started his court practice he asked me to come to his court the second time that he sat on the bench and when they were ready to start the court they had everyone rise and as the police ushered him in and he went to the bench and then he said, “Everyone remain standing, he said my father is here and I’m calling him forward to speak blessing over this court.”  And so he…

Sid: So when the judge orders something they have to do it.

Bill: Yes, you do it.

Sid: Even in America.

Bill: That’s right so he began his sixteen year career as a judge with the blessing being spoken over his judgeship and over his court.  And his court was very successful and prosperous all of those years.

Sid: And he just was promoted, tell me about that in Congress.

Bill: Well, last fall he was elected to the State Senate and he’s now the Senator for this District.  And he called me one day from the Senate Office in Atlanta and said, “Dad we want you to come up and pray in the Senate and I want you to speak blessing over the Senate and over all the Senators and over the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor.  So we had a Blessing Service in the Senate in the State of George back in January.

Sid: And tell me about your son, John who is a writer.

Bill: John had a great inspiration to begin to write on the second Pillar of Faith on the Moral Code of God.  So we began to lay hands on him and bless him and God has supernaturally anointed him.  He now has produced four of the books on the Ten Commandments.  They are beautifully illustrated.  They are all in rhythm and they challenge and inspire children and parents as well to have a great honor and respect for the Moral Code of God.

Sid: And very briefly for your surprise eightieth Birthday what did your five grandchildren do?

Bill: Oh my goodness, the church had that for us and as a part of the ceremony the five children and all of my family, two sons my daughter – in- law, my wife and my mother- in- law, they all gathered around me and those children spoke the Aaronic Blessing over Poppa.

Sid: What did that mean to you?

Bill: Oh my goodness Sid, I can’t tell you how significant that was to me and how it moved my heart with deep love and compassion, not only for those babies, but for all of my family and all of my household and the church.

Sid: Do you believe that either of your sons would have achieved what they have achieved so far without the power of the blessing?

Bill: No, I do not I believe that that’s important and I don’t believe that I would have come to the place where I am today.  Here I am walking in health, eighty years of age, walking in health, I feel as healthy and strong as these twenty and thirty years olds walking around your office here.  And I work a full day every day, I’ve been up since five o’clock this morning.

Sid: Oops we are out of time…

Sid: I was interviewing Matt Sorger and we started talking about his mother and I said, “Could you put her on the phone?”  “Because Veronica, I believe that you have to share is going to help so many people right now.  When Matt was about twelve years of age, you became sick, and not just sick very sick you went to doctors, they couldn’t help you.  You went to alternative health people, they couldn’t help you, then you resorted to things like Hinduism and Buddhism and New Age, but instead of getting better, what happened to you?”

Veronica: Well, I actually grew worse and worse and it was like I was on a journey looking for a way that God would not only heal me, but it actually originated with a desire in my heart to find out how God would heal people here on earth.  That’s when my journey began and during that journey I became very ill.

Sid: And of course, you got to the point where your bed ridden and towards the end of 1986 your mother invited you to a church service and you tried everything else so you go to this church; you’re in the back of the church and what happened?

Veronica: Well, I was extremely broken there was no pride, I was as broken as any person could be and I was calling out for the mercy of God and He would heal me because there was no man, there was no medicine, there was not even any religious forms that was able to help me so I just totally threw myself on His mercy.

Sid: And what happened to you?

Veronica: Well, the Priest asked everyone to come up who needed prayer for healing so I actually had never heard of the power of God coming on anyone, I had never seen it or experienced it myself so my mind understanding was just that the Priest would pray for me and that would be it and I was actually in a place of more hope.  The scripture I went there on is “Come to me, although weary and burdened and I will rest for your soul.”  I didn’t really have an awareness of any healing scriptures at that point.  And when the Priest went to anoint me with oil, he never really was able to get the oil on me because I was overshadowed by this incredible power that literally threw me back through the air.  And I hit the floor and while I was on the floor, there was charges and volts of electricity flowing through every part of my body.  And the amazing thing was that I was in place of euphoria, I always tell people that it was very difficult to describe it but it was totally euphoric, bliss, peace and first I knew that I had found God.  And secondly the place was such an incredible experience that it’s difficult to put it in words that I have often wondered if the Lord had said to me, “Would you like to be here if I wouldn’t have said yes, because there is just nothing on the face of this earth to compare to the place that I was experiencing while I was laying there on the floor with all these volts of electricity flowing through me.

Sid: Now I understand the power was so strong that when it first hit you, it threw you back, how far would you say?

Veronica: I would say easily it threw me back perhaps ten feet.

Sid: Did you hurt yourself?

Veronica: Well, actually not at that time, I was at such a place of where it was actually beautiful I didn’t feel any hurt or anything at all.

Sid: I mean what a jolt of power!

Veronica: Yeah, but the very next day I actually had trouble turning my neck and when I asked the Lord, I was so innocent in my faith and so childlike that I just simply said to my Father in heaven, “You hurt me when you did that to me, could you please take it away?”  And instantly, instantly as the words came out of my mouth it totally left and I was healed.

Sid: Well, this made such an impression on Matt, that as a result of you being healed it transformed his life.  Just out of curiosity, what kind of kid was he before he became a believer in the Messiah?

Veronica: Well, Matt was always a very good child, actually an exceptionally good child, very bright and even as a young boy when we would go to church at times, as a Catholic I didn’t go faithfully, but he loved it.  He would actually was eager to go, there was something in Matt at a very young age that he was just drawn very very easily to the Lord.

Sid: Hi Matt, now when your mother was healed it had an effect on you, tell me what effect did it have?

Matt: Yeah when, the night that my Mom got healed and she came home from that Catholic Healing Mass, she walked into the front door and she looked like a totally different person.  She was bright, she was happy, she was smiling for the first time in two years and instantly I knew that something dramatic had happened and I asked her and I said, “What happened to you?”  She said, “Jesus healed me tonight.”  And began just to tell me about God and the reality of Jesus and how He stepped into her life that night and within a day I was giving my heart to Jesus.  And it was strange what happened to me as she was talking to me about Jesus all of sudden inside of my spirit or inside of myself I received an awareness of sin which I did not have up until that point; all of a sudden I could feel the sin that was there.

Sid: And yet your Mom just said you are a pretty good kid before you were saved.

Matt: Ha-ha, you know I guess I was a good kid, but even if you’re a good person there’s still sin in the heart.  Even if you are a really good person, everyone needs to be forgiven because no one is perfect.  So, but I became aware of the sin nature, I became aware of the element of sin that was there and I knew I needed forgiveness and that’s what led me, that day to salvation in Christ.  I saw what happened with my Mom, but then the Holy Spirit personally touched my heart.

Sid: Okay, so that was about age fourteen, but then here’s the thing I don’t understand, help me out Matt; at fifteen you would go into, I was involved, when I first became a believer I would go to what was called the Catholic Charismatic Movement because that was the only Charismatic that was available at that time and I would feel the presence of God, but then when I would worship by myself I wouldn’t feel that same degree of anointing.  Did you find that was also true with you?

Matt: That, that’s exactly what happened to me, when we started to go to church well at that point we encountered God, my parents found a good Spirit filled Bible teaching church we started attending.  During the corporate meetings at church I would feel this amazing presence of God during the worship time, then I would come home and I would go into my room and have my own private time where I would talk to God and I wouldn’t feel His presence at all, it was very different for me something on the inside of me started to rise up where I said, “Lord or God I want to experience Your presence one on one not just when I’m at church.”  And I wanted more of God, then one day a week in a Sunday morning church service yep.

Sid: And but here’s the thing I don’t get, you knew nothing, like me when I got saved, I came from a traditional Jewish background, you came from a Catholic background, we both knew nothing.  But you would take about an hour a day and worship the Lord whether you felt anything or not.

Matt: Yeah.

Sid: What caused you to do that?  That’s what I don’t get?

Matt: It’s true, you know I think I just got so hungry for God, it wasn’t something that came from somebody telling me to do it, it just came out of my Spirit, I think God was calling me, He was drawing me and there was a hunger in me for Him that I wanted…

Sid: What would you do?  What would you do?  Would you play music?

Matt: I would go into my room and I would, well back then we had cassette tapes.

Sid: In the olden days. Okay ha-ha.

Matt: I would put my little tape recorder on and I had this one Hosanna worship CD and I would play it and I would let the music play in my room and I would sing just like we would sing at church.  And I would spend about an hour doing this; I would just let the whole tape play through both sides.

Sid: Every day?

Matt: Every day.

Sid: Okay, you finally reached what you call a saturation point, what do you mean by that?

Matt: Yeah, I remember the moment it happened; I’m standing in my room, fifteen years old about fourteen fifteen and I’m lifting my hands up singing a song I probably sung hundreds of times before and then all of a sudden to me it felt like heaven opened up over me and this anointing, this presence this tangible presence of God’s glory filled me and then filled the whole room.  And I believe as I reflect on what happened was, you know my spirit was sealed with the Holy Spirit when I got saved; but then as I kept pressing in worship, no matter what my soul felt or my body felt, because the Holy Spirit was still in my spirit man, but as I kept pressing in and worshipping a well was being dug out of my spirit in my spirit that eventually overflowed into my soul, overflowed into my body.  I call that the saturation point which means you just spend so much time in God’s presence that he just overflows out of your spirit into your soul which is your emotion, your body and then that is when your senses begin to feel His presence.

Sid: How long did it take for that to happen in your life?

Matt: Oh, for me it was about I would say about four months that I just worshipped.

Sid: And then, after it happened every time you would worship you would feel that abundance of the Spirit?

Matt: Yeah, it was like once that breakthrough happened it was there. 

Sid: You know what I believe the people that are listening to us right now are about ready to have a breakthrough in their life because you’ve got a brand new book and it’s called “Power for Life.”  And when you were writing this book I understand you had a visitation for three nights of angels.  Did you actually see them, did you feel them?

Matt: I felt them very strongly, as I was sitting at the table writing, reviewing you know the last words of the manuscript; the manuscript was due that week and I pulled a whole week where I was writing, writing, writing.  And the last three nights as I was there an angel came behind me and I could feel his presence behind me and his hand on my shoulder.  And as I was writing and reviewing the manuscript that angel stayed with me for three nights as I finished the manuscript.

Sid: Well, Mishpochah I understand why, when you read this book you’re going to learn how to plug into the power of God, how to pull your future into the now.  There will be no more waiting for answers; I know that’s what you want…pull your future into the now; that’s what you need.

Sid: Were talking about end-times with Joel Richardson and it’s been prophesied and Joel has lived in the Middle East and he has studied Islam that he would understand the revelation of the end times and he’s put together a DVD series that will totally change your paradigm for end times; and it’s so Biblical.  But I have to ask you a question Joel, something that a lot of people are misunderstood; they just plain don’t understand.  And that has to do with the Muslim God Allah.  And many say that’s just synonymous with God and they use it interchangeably with the God of the Bible.  Explain to me what Allah means to a Muslim.

Joel: Well, some people will say that Allah is simply the Arabic word for God as supposed to a proper name for God and they point to the fact that Arab Christians in the Middle East refer to God as Allah.  The question is, “Did the Christians refer to God as Allah prior to them having been subjected to the Islamic governets?” And that is very doubtful, perhaps they just caved in and said, “Oh it’s just a name, we’ll call God, Allah in order to be at peace. But the bottom line is, Allah is first and foremost the God of Islam that comes with his own set of doctrines, specific theology.  And the God of Islam is not the God of the Bible.  The God of the Bible has a history; he’s the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  The God of Islam bares a far closer resemblance to all the ancient near Eastern War and Moon God’s that the Israelites were fighting against, that they were contending with.  The Allah of Islam is much more related to the God that Abraham left behind in the desert than the God that he followed to Israel.

Sid: So when a Muslim says “Allah, who is he referring to?”

Joel: Well, again in a Muslim’s mind he’s referring to the creator of all things and in that very general sense we agree that God is the creator of all things.  But he’s not referring to the God of the Bible because Muslims reject much of the Bible.  He is not referring to the God who sent His Son to mankind in order to demonstrate His love for mankind, in order to do for us what we could not do for ourselves on the cross.  In order to pay for our sins, in order to draw us to Himself.  They reject the notion that God would ever, ever become a man that’s absolutely blasphemous to Muslims.

Sid: So as far as I’m concerned it’s a different God.

Joel: Yeah, it’s a different God, you know yes there is some general similarities and when the little Muslim cries out to Allah, I believe that God hears the cry of the ignorant child who’s crying out to the unknown God of creation that he calls Allah, I believe that.  But when it comes to the specific about what Muslims believe about God and what the Bible teaches, it is a different God and Christians should not use the name of Allah.

Sid: And yet, I hear throughout the whole Middle East there are so many Muslims that are having revelations of Jesus, not the Jesus that Islam describes, the Jesus that the Bible describes.

Joel: You know, exactly!  I just met with a Muslim leader in Istanbul, a very very influential, a Turkish intellectual Turkish Muslim leader.  And we sat down in his house and I looked at him and I said, “Adnun I’ve come to Istanbul, because I am concerned for you; I want you to become a follower of Jesus, not the Jesus of the Koran, the Jesus of the Bible because they are to radically different individuals.’  And throughout the Middle East today in unprecedented numbers we are seeing Muslims come to faith specifically as a result, a direct result of a supernatural vision or a dream.  This is unprecedented and to put it in context you know the Bible says, “How will they hear without a preacher?” It is as if in these last days the Lord Himself is directly evangelizing people.  I believe that in their ignorance as Muslim pray five times a day and they say “Allah, guide me to the straight path.” I believe that among those that are sincere God is responded to them and He’s teaching them the truth about Himself in Messiah, in Yeshua and He’s calling them out of Islam.

Sid: And do you know what I find fascinating, with Jewish people it’s not so much saying Isaiah 53 written 800 years before Jesus came to earth, it’s a perfect description of Jesus, but its signs and wonders is the same thing going on with Muslims?

Joel: You know I have a really close friend that I went to school with here in the states and he lives in Berlin now, we talk at least once a week.  And he is seeing Muslims in Berlin come to faith several per week.  You know, he’ll go in a café and he’ll share the gospel with someone and two Muslims at the table next to him will interrupt and say, “We want that, we want to get saved!”  He said, “It’s not even a matter of having to throw out the net any more their jumping into the boat.”  He recently had a meeting where a very prominent Turkish businessman in the area invited dozens of Turks that had recently moved to Germany to a meeting where my friend prayed for them and nine out of nine people were instantaneously healed and nine out of nine Turkish Muslims gave their life to Christ that day, that’s in one day!  He’s seeing these things every week, this is unheard of!

Sid: Well, you know why this is going on, there is going to be so many Muslims and Jews, there’s going to be a revival among Muslims and Jews and this is the first fruits of the revival so we’ll have a few leaders.

Joel: Amen and amen and when they come to faith they are fearless, they are fearless…

Sid: They are normal, let’s call it the way it is.  They’re normal, not American Christian normal, Biblical normal.

Joel: Exactly Christianity 101 and as they’re being discipled; they are actually trying to keep away from them Christians that have been Christians for their life.

Sid: Do you know what I would love to do, I would love to do is I would love to get ten Jewish Rabbi’s saved, keep them away from religion; be it Rabbinic Judaism or be it Constantine Christianity and we would have our first ten men walking on water.

Joel: Absolutely, and you know I’ll tell you with regard to the Jews coming to faith, the Bible says that “The gentiles have the ministry of jealousy; they are to make the Jewish people jealous because of their relationship with Yahweh.”   And I believe that when Jews see Muslims coming to Yeshua and repenting of their anti-Semitism and embracing the Jewish people and loving the Jewish people that that will be when Ishmael comes to the God of Israel, comes back to the God of Israel that will be one of the more significant factors that will bring conviction to the heart of the Jewish people.

Sid: Let’s go to your revelation of Micah Chapter 5:2-4 where you’re building your case that the anti-Christ will come out of Islam and the Islamic system.

Joel: Exactly, for those that have read you know the “Left behind” series, we’re taught that the anti-Christ will come out of Europe and all these sort of things.  But when we look at any of the passages through-out the Old Testament that speak of the coming of the Messiah, Jesus is always coming back to do battle against Islamic nations, Islamic peoples and all the references to the anti-Christ are Islamic names, Islamic titles.  In Micah 5 you have the prophecy of the Bethlehem born Messiah.  We always quote this around Christmas; this is what the Pharisees quoted to Herod when asked where the Messiah would be born.  But when you read a little bit further it says specifically that when the Assyrian; and again this is another title for the anti-Christ; when the Assyrian invades the land of Israel.  Speaking to the final invasion of the land of Israel by the Anti-Christ is says that “Jesus the Messiah, the Bethlehem born Messiah would deliver the Jewish people from the Assyrian.”  And when you look at this title the Assyrian; if you’re a believer that takes the Bible at its face value interpretation then you have to ask yourself, is it real more reasonable to conclude that the anti-Christ as the Assyrian will come from out of the former region of the Assyrian Empire in the Middle East.”  Or is it a more reasonable conclude that the anti-Christ will be Nicolae Carpathia from Romania?

Sid: And Daniel 2:43 you gave me the Aramaic understanding of the statue where the toes will be of mixed substance, what does that word mixed mean in Aramaic?

Joel: Well in Aramaic the word for mix is Arab, and if you are to look at that verse in its literal translation if you read Aramaic it would simply say this, “In and that you saw the feet of iron mixed with the clay so also the Kingdom will be Arab.”  This is one of the clearest and most direct references to the nature of the fourth kingdom.  It’s a very similar story to where Daniel went to Belshazzar and says mine tico Perez, the kingdom will be divided and it will be given to Paras Persian.  It is your typical eastern play on words; Arab means mixed and it also mean Arab people, they were known as the mixed people.  The final fourth kingdom will be an Ishmaelite kingdom, the Islamic Empire.

Sid: In your heart of hearts why does God want your DVDs out now?

Joel: Well, I believe that the church needs to be prepared for what’s coming, and the church needs to awaken to the reality so that we can begin moving in the direction that He wants us to move.  It’s not just an issue of knowing the correct facts but knowing what to do.  In the last days we need to know about the last times, but we also need to know how to respond.  We need to know where to direct our energies.  If the Lord is touching and drawing out a remnant from without of the Islamic world we want to be part of that.  We want to get involved, we want to know where to direct our prayers and I believe that this DVD series will help the church to do that.

Sid: Now, you talk about Turkey as a very significant country, why?

Joel: Well, when we look at the prophecy of Ezekiel 38, 39 this is one of the clearest and most direct passages about the end-times in the whole Bible.  Many people believe that Gog…

Sid: Oh, I’m sorry we’re out of time, will pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.  Mishpochah this is the clearest understanding of the end times that you’ll ever see.  And you must understand the end times to know what to do.

Sid: My guest David Herzog, I’m speaking to him at his home in Sedona Arizona and David I understand over the last few months a tremendous sign has been occurring.  People with metal plates it’s been disappearing from them body, tell me about that

David: Yeah, it’s amazing I’ll be in the glory in the meeting and God will give me words of knowledge and I’ll see metal turning back to bone or just disappearing and people will come up and we’ve seen this for ten years but it’s like every week now it’s happening.  Metals just disappear, the screws are gone, the plates are gone  We were in London, England last week it happened there, it happened in LA this weekend, it’s just happening non-stop.  I remember Sid, one time…

Sid: By the way, do you know what I’m looking forward to someone has the metal removed and they flew to one of your meetings and when they go back to the metal detector at the airport, it doesn’t go off any more.

David: Wonderful, you know I’m sure it happens I just need to keep up with these guys that get these miracles, but yeah, they are just amazed.  One lady had a straight metal rod; she couldn’t bend her leg because it was a straight rod down her leg.  And at the meeting I just said “Someone can’t bend your legs bend your legs.”  The lady started bending her leg and starts screaming and I’m thinking, oh that’s not a big deal until I found out that there was suppose to be a metal rod in there.

Sid: Tell me, because this the question a lot of people are asking, someone that’s not use to walking this heavy manifest presence of God, this glory of God.  I want you to mentor them right now.  Tell them what they should be doing because there meant to walk in this glory of God.

David: It starts in your personal time with God, it’s intimacy with God, so one of the best ways, when you get up in the morning to pray.  Instead of just going through your list of things to pray, I would just put the list away for now and just start to praise and worship God just for who He is, not for what He can do for you, just because you love Him, until He comes.  And so I always talk about praise as the more faster breakthrough songs, you do maybe even dancing in your room and shouting to God and warfare songs and then you start worshiping which is the slow intimate songs and you do that until the heavy presence comes.  It will just get stronger and stronger and stronger.  And so you enter His courts with praise and thanksgiving and worship and then once you’re in that heavy praise, you’ll know when you are in that presence.  The atmosphere will change and then that’s when I start speaking to God but by that time you’ll see pictures, which I call visions of yourself doing this or doing that.  Start then to just declare what you see “Well, I declare this is going to happen or that is going to happen or maybe God told you that maybe you’re a preacher or you are going to speak somewhere and you see a city.”  One time I saw New York, so I said, New York open up Wall Street area, open up and within a couple of hours I was invited to speak in the Wall street area.  So a lot of time even your whole prayer life will change the way doors open will change, it’s a whole different realm when you pray in the glory you are like creating what you are speaking as opposed to begging God to do it.

Sid: Now I remember you talking to me at least a year ago maybe longer that you felt God told you that you were going to have an impact on people in Hollywood.  It’s starting to happen now from which you’re telling me.

David: Oh man, it’s amazing, just this last weekend, I mean I went to the Burbank, North Ridge area which is a lot of Hollywood actors were there but I found out that it is also the porn industry headquarters.  So I’m going to the airplane thinking about this, I get on the airplane and a drunk lady walks in, she’s kind of drunk, she misses her seat, comes back and she is sitting next to me, this was last Friday.  And anyway making a long story short, she’s kind of drunk, she asks me, what I do for a living, I tell her, ask her what she does and she tells me she’s a porn star.  And I didn’t tell you this story, but by the end of the flight, I was praying for her and she’s weeping and I found out she was from the Assembly of God, she’s a preacher’s daughter, Spirit filled, led a youth group, use to preach on holiness, against sin, against lust, preached at her prom, was a full blown evangelist outreach.  She use to see the blind healed and everything and she got raped on an Easter Sunday and it changed her whole life, she though God didn’t love her anymore.  So I told her, “God still wants you back and blah, blah blah.”  So that’s how the trip started could you imagine?  Then we get into the church and half of the people there are in the Hollywood industry, actors, producers, directors, writers and of course a lot of Jewish people in the industry so they were there.  And every night people were getting saved; people in the entertainment industry; Hollywood and Jewish people receiving the Lord, signs, wonders, miracles, the glory.  So it’s starting to come to pass, it is happening just supernaturally, I’m not doing anything to make it happen.

Sid: Now what does it mean to you that for the first time in actually when I first became a believer in the early 1970s there was a move of God’s Spirit on Jewish people but then it kind of, it stopped and now God’s started again dealing with Israel, dealing with Jewish people.  What does this mean to you David?

David: Well, it means that well it says that when the fullness of Gentiles come in then all Israel shall be saved.  So were seeing a lot of nations and I travel around the world, Sir Lanka and a lot of places, they are coming in.  So the fullness of the gentiles are coming in.  And when that reaches a completion the Jews start coming in and the Jews are coming in now.  LA has one of the largest populations maybe next to New York, these heavy Jewish population areas are suddenly completely ripe for the gospel which means that the return of the Lord isn’t very far.

Sid: Now it says that we don’t know the day or the hour but we certainly know the season and that’s what I hear you saying.

David: Yeah the signs of it, I would say, work like he’s not coming for 100 years but live in holiness and live right with God as if He’s coming today.  But yeah, He’s a, something is up I’ve never seen such an opening and my own Father it took eight years to pray for him to receive the Lord, and He’s Jewish and now I’m seeing people, his own relatives coming to Lord just very very very fast.  Not even putting up a mental argument about it, which is amazing, a Jewish Lawyer came the other night and when he got there he told my Jewish Aunt, you need to join this ministry.  This is before he received the Lord; he already liked it because the presence and the glory of God was in that room.

Sid: Now, another thing that happens when people enter into the glory where the presence of God is that they have Heavenly visitations, tell me about some.

David: Yeah, Heavenly visitations can be anything when they enter the glory sometimes they get prophetic dreams, sometimes they get angelic visitations, sometimes they see the Messiah himself, Yeshua will come in the room or visit them, so it is just anything of Heaven coming down and visiting you.  Some people get a dream and then they wake up and say wow I went to Africa and later find out it wasn’t a dream, they go to Africa and people say “Oh, your back.”  So, yeah it’s a whole new realm, it’s a whole new world, it’s not like our world here.

Sid: Tell me about the experience in French Guiana.

David: Oh yeah we were there preaching and it’s heavy witchcraft area, the tribal people there worship this tree which they use to channel demons, this tree looks like an antenna.  It’s pretty weird, it’s like a weird dream and I went over there and the Lord told me these people worship these other gods and demons.  He told me have them give an offering to Jesus.  So I took up an offering, imagine the poorest of the poor area, but it was to change their worship, to what ever they give they worship.  So he said, “Were going to worship Jesus through the altar call and what happened was before I give the altar call all this gold dust of different colors fell.  People were covered in rainbow colors like dust, like all the different gems.  All these witches got saved, Heavens were cracked wide open and then when I went back to my little cabin…

Sid: And by the way, you just made a profound statement, all these witches got saved, because there are people saying “Gold dust, that’s not from God” well guess what, the devil is not going to throw gold dust that will cause witches to get radically saved!

David: Demons are coming out them too.

Sid: Ha ha.

David: They were screaming out, the glory came, the signs and wonders came and then salvations and deliverances came and then me and the apostle in the cabin were in were visited by angelic visitation until 4:00 AM I had never had an experience like that un until that time.

Sid: Tell me about Bethel.

David: Okay, I took people there where they think was the spot, it is kind of in the middle of nowhere in a settlement area, we lay down, played some music and told people just close your eyes and just see what God show you.  And people were, some were crying, you could hear people being touched.  And once everybody got back up and I said, “What happened?”  One lady said “That I went to Heaven and she was there with me and Jesus told us this,” and I said hold on.  And she was pointing to the lady, but the lady was far away and the lady didn’t hear the conversation.  So we went to the other lady and we said, “What happened to you?”  “I was taken to Heaven; I was with that lady over there.”  And I said, “What did you talk about?”  It was the exact same visitation, same conversation; Jesus had told them the same thing.  So, they were both taken to Heaven, Heavenly realm with the same place, same time together.  So it was just amazing.  That was Genesis 28; it says “This is the gate to Heaven.”  So there are geographical portals on the earth that are still open since bible days.

Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Joel Richardson. And Joel, you were one of the first that I heard teach, although I understand it’s not a new teaching, that everything will be centered in the Middle East in the last days and it will be involving the Islamic faith as opposed to the European Union, etc. Explain.

Joel: Obviously as Westerners and as Americans we’ve had the tendency and we’ve committee the error of looking to the Bible believing that it’s very Western-centric. The fact of the matter is the Bible is Jerusalem, Israel and Middle Eastern-centric. This is really obvious to anybody that just looks at the context of the book. But also what’s happened is through a misinterpretation of just a couple key passages. Many of those that have been studying biblical prophecy, they’ve looked at Daniel 9:26, “The people of the prince to come,” Daniel 2, the metallic statue, through a clear misinterpretation of the historical grammatical context of those two passages. The church, many of the leaders have taught that the Antichrist, his empire and his religion would come out of Europe. When we look at those passages afresh and we compare them to the wealth, to the abundance other passages throughout the scriptures, it is clear that the Antichrist, his religion and his empire come from the Middle East and not Europe. And that biblical prophecy is primarily dealing with the Middle East and the empire that will arise in the Middle East. And today we’re seeing the beginning of that exact prophecy coming to pass.

Sid: But one of the good things for the world is many of these Islamic nations, they don’t want to unify, well they may want to, but when it comes down to it, it is very difficult for them unify. And we know about this from Scripture. Will they unify? Tell me what you see from Scripture?

Joel: They will unify, but the Bible also says this empire will be divided. That from its very inception it will be a kingdom that will be divided. After Mohammed died, the founder of Islam, there was a dispute that broke out between what are called the Sunis and the Shia. And so the Islamic empire, so to speak, from its very beginning has been divided…

Sid: Fractured.

Joel: …right up until the last moment. When they’re in the land of Israel, the armies of the Antichrist, the Bible in Zachariah as well as Ezekiel say that they will turn their swords on each other and the hand of each man will be against his brother and they’ll be killing each other. That sectarian violence that we’ve seen in Iraq, for instance, the past several years, will continue up until the very end. They will put aside their differences for the sake of invading Israel and killing infidels, but that sort of sectarian enmity will last right up until the very end.

Sid: Now you put Turkey in a very unique position. Explain.

Joel: Imagine, Sid, if you are a Suni Arab Muslim. You’re there in the Middle East. You desire to see the re-establishment of the Caliphate. The Caliphate is the Islamic government, the Islamic empire. It existed for 1400 years. Eighty years ago, 1923, it was abolished. So now, you know, just say 10 years ago, you’re this Suni Muslim, you look out, you say, who are the ones who can lead this? The old order of the Middle East you had the Arab block. That was Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. You looked at them, you said, these are all Western puppet regimes, corrupt monarchies and dictators. No hope there. You look across the Persian Gulf you see the Iranians. You go they’re courageous, they thumb their nose at the West. That’s good, but they’re Shia. In other words, they’re kind of heretical. There was no hope. Now since 2003, there is a new strong force emerging in the Middle East, and that is Turkey, and the affections, the attentions of the Suni world, the majority sect of Islam, are turning to Turkey and they believe that Turkey is the nation that can revive the Islamic empire. And it just so happens that Turkey has been taken over by an Islamist government and they desire to do just that, to revive the Ottoman Empire of old and to rule the Middle East.

Sid: So it’s almost like history is going to repeat itself.

Joel: Exactly. And people keep asking me, they say, what’s next in the Middle East? What does all this mean, this turmoil, this turnover? When we look at the chapters, Daniel, Chapters 8 and 11, we look at these, they tell the story of Alexander the Great burst forth out of Macedonia, out of Europe swept across the Middle East, very quickly conquered, had this vast empire and then he suddenly died. Well then that was, the kingdom was divided up between his generals. They began to fight it out until it really came down to two primary quadrants of his empire. You had the Northern Alliance, this is the King of the North, and then you had the Southern Alliance. The Northern Alliance was essentially today a Turkish, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian alliance. This was called the Seleucid Empire or the Seleucid Dynasty. Historically, under Antiochus Epiphanes they clashed with Ptolemy, which was an Egyptian Northern African Alliance. So you had the King of the North, the King of the South. The Bible tells us that that historical pattern will be repeated. So what we need to understand…

Sid: Well see, and a lot of people think it’s finished. A lot of these Old Testament things are finished. But where does it tell us it will be repeated?

Joel: Well if you go to Daniel 11, it shifts from telling the historical story of what took place, again, with Alexander and his generals, Antiochus Epiphanes, and then in Daniel 11:36, it shifts and it starts speaking of the Antichrist. It says, “The king will do as he pleases.” And these are clear references. Scholars are in near universal agreement. This is speaking of the Antichrist because it speaks of things that Antiochus never did. And so it shifts from the historical to the future. And it says, “In the days these things will take place.” So it’s that historical pattern repeated. What will take place in the next few years, we’ll see the emergence, the continued consolidation of the Northern Alliance of the Turkish, Iranian, Syrian alliance, as well as probably Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then the Southern Alliance: Egypt, Libya, Sudan, and Turkey and Egypt, they both desire to the be rulers of the Middle East. There will be a military conflict between these two alliances with the Northern Alliance coming out victorious. This is what happened historically. It will happen again. On the way back from defeating the King of the South, Antiochus invaded the land of Israel.

Sid: Okay. What I want to find out is, you see, you cannot understand the Antichrist unless you understand Islam. For instance, you’ll be shocked when you find out what the Mark of the Beast is. We’ll be right back after this word.

Sid: My guest Denny Cramer has just the most fascinating gift, so precise of prophecy.  He’s been prophesying for thirty-three years and Denny you say this and you mean it, you say that although you’ve been prophesying for thirty-three years you’re still learning.  How could you still be learning after thirty-three years of prophesying?

Denny: Well, if you think a minute about who we’ve dealing with, were dealing with the greatest teacher of all times; the Holy Spirit has always been teaching the church.  And anyone who’s in partnership with him will or should always be learning.  And I tell people that prophesying is an ongoing learning experience.  Listen to this, every time I prophesy, which is thousands of times every year, I learn something more about my craft; about my skill; about my gift.  So here I am prophesying and yet I’m learning how to do a better job the next time.  So I tell people that if you want to get good at anything, including how we serve God do it a lot.  Learn by repetitions.  So I tell people, get out there and get some experience, practice, practice, practice and after you do anything a few thousand times you are going to get better at it.  But here I am thirty-three years of prophesying and if I prophesy tomorrow night I will learn something from the Holy Spirit. I’ve never said I’ve arrived, I’ve never thought for a minute that I have this thing figured out.  What I feel is we’ve only scratched the surface and if I’m ministering for the greatest teacher that has ever lived, if the Holy Spirit is my teacher, I know that there’s something more I can learn every time I prophecy.

Sid: You know I would love to turn your gift lose to Jewish people in Israel and Muslims in a Muslim country and watch what happened.  Have you ever had an occasion to prophesy over non-believing Jews or Muslims?

Denny: Absolutely, the majority of my ministry of course has been to believers, but a couple churches will put the word out, they’ll advertise in secular papers and they’ll invite those who are curious; those that are seeking and of course you get what you get but we very subtly and very diplomatically will attempt to minister to people who are not even a Christian, not ever born again.  And of course the Holy Spirit is faithful and true to absolutely nail them right between the eyes with a very accurate word, but of course what then has to happen is those unsaved people who just got a very accurate prophecy, they still of course need to be converted so that they’re prophecy can come to pass.

Sid: Now, take you back as a young kid as you’re in your early twenties; the gifts are all knew to you and you hear from God who will be your wife.  Now you did not have the greatest wisdom, what did you do when you got this information?

Denny: That’s an understatement, I was praying one night, I was a single guy twenty-one years of age, I had dated this beautiful young Christian woman one time.  We had one date, I simply said, can we go out and have a steak one night so she agreed.  We had one date, she then went back to college about three hours away and I stayed here in my home town working at the time, so I had not seen her for about three or four months.  So one night I’m praying and I’m saying this young woman, Diane, she’s beautiful, she’s a Christian, and I’m not even going to call her up, I’m not even going to try to get a second date when she comes back from college unless you’re in this.  And at that precise moment, out of Heaven came words in a vertical teletype, just like you’d see going across horizontally on you TV screen these words came out of Heaven vertically and it went ……right into my head and I read the words on this vertical teletype and it said “I’m going to give you Diane to be your wife.”  Well I jumped up, ran over to the phone, picked up the phone, called this phone number for this beautiful young Christian girl that I had seen one time three or four months ago for one date, called her up on the phone and got her on the phone and I said, “Hey, I was praying about you tonight,” she said “Wow, what was it about?”  And I said, “Well, God spoke to me,” well wow, what did He say?”  And I said, Well, the Lord said” and I quoted to her “God said to me I’m going to give you Diane, to be your wife.”  She began to weep and then she said, and I quote, “But I don’t even like you.”

Sid: Ha-ha that must have gone over big with you and her.

Denny: I was devastated!  She said, “This is not happening and she then hung up the phone and I thought that I had blown it.  It never occurred to me that God had not told her the same thing.  She came back to the hometown about four or five months after that  prophesy, I ran into once and then twice, and then three times, but I wasn’t going to bring up marriage again, we were just friends.  But after the summer of ’74 had come and gone right around August of ’74 I was still feeling that God spoke to me, I got to ask this gal again.  So I sat her down and I said, “Look I’m going to ask you again, I believe you are to be my wife; will you marry me?”  Then she said, “Oh yeah, God had told me two weeks ago.”  We were engaged on August 13^th of 1974, married November 23^rd of 1974 and we just celebrated our Thirty-fifth wedding anniversary.

Sid: But, it gets even better I mean it’s wonderful when you have a baby, what happens when you have a miracle, baby.  There was a prophecy about your baby even before he was born, tell me about that.

Denny: Diane got pregnant and we we’re of course as first time expectant parents, very excited and we received a prophecy from a very accurate woman in our church.  The Lord would say, you will have a miracle baby, well we interpreted that to mean, man be a quick and easy delivery, no pain, no contraction, no hard labor hallelujah, thank you Jesus.  The truth is the opposite happened.  Diane went into deep fetal distress, the baby’s heart beat became erratic after eighteen hours of hard labor, the doctor said, “We need to perform an emergency caesarean,” and we’re going “What do you mean, what kind of a miracle baby are we going to get?”  Well, the baby was born through an emergency surgical procedure called a C-section two save the baby’s life.   Diane was fine, the baby was not, is right lung had totally collapsed 100%, his left lung 50%.  The placenta had failed several weeks earlier and my son had been inhaling his waste, called meconium and he was at deaths door.  They took the baby to intensive care, they inflated his lungs, they injected him with twenty six different combinations of chemicals to say his life and after three days the doctor came to us and said, “During the night, your son pulled out his own chest tube,” and of course we were devastated, he said, “No, no, no you don’t understand…

Sid: How could a baby days old, pull out their own chest tube?”

Denny: Go figure? Go figure”

Sid: They can’t, I mean they can’t even operate their fists or their hand to well.

Denny: Pulled it out in the middle of the night, the nurses didn’t discover, he said, “You don’t understand your baby is fine.”  Then the doctor…

Sid: The baby could have died when it did this, if it could have done this, which it did, but it should not have been able to, but if it did it the baby should have died.

Denny: And here’s the cool part, the doctors said to us and I quote, “It’s, it’s like a miracle” and as he said that Diane and I looked at one another and we knew that we had our miracle baby.  He then recovered from all of his traumatic birth.  They thought that he would have brain damage and heart damage, he was totally and completely healed, he became a star athlete in high school, he is now married with a beautiful wife and a granddaughter and he’s thirty-four years old.

Sid: Now just out of curiosity, in your family line were there any prophets?

Denny: Virtually none.  I’m an Amos kind of prophet, I didn’t come from a family of prophets, neither was I professionally trained.

Sid: So, how did you get this marvelous gift?

Denny: Like, you and every other believer, gets their gifts, by a decision from a generous loving God who loves to give gifts.

Sid: And as you explain in your book, non everyone has the gift of prophecy such as you have, but everyone can prophecy, “If that’s the case, why come very few Christians’ prophecy?”

Denny: A number of reasons, number one, we don’t believe the Bible, that’s where most of our problems stem from, we just don’t believe the Bible.  If the Bible is true in the easy parts and the good parts then it almost also must be true in the difficult parts and the parts we don’t always like.  In other words, I believe that it’s all true and if it’s true on the day of Pentecost, Peter stood up and said “Hey, this is what Joel was talking about!”  Joel prophesied hundreds of years earlier that when the Holy Spirit was poured out in the last days there would be a gift that was be inserted into this church.  It wasn’t tongues, it wasn’t falling over when people pray for you, it wasn’t gold dust, those things are fine and good.  What is was was the gift of prophecy; Joel referenced it once when Peter re-prophesied Joel’s prophecy he referenced it twice.  He said, “Your sons and daughters will prophesy; your handmaidens and your men servants will prophesy,” so…

Sid: What’s so wonderful about your book is I love the subtitle; the title is “You Can All Prophecy.”  The subtitle is “Stepping out with Integrity,” that’s a very important word.  And what you literally do and what needs to be done; and the first church understood this.  So Denny, you have a call from God to demystify the prophetic.

Sid: I have on the telephone someone who has a gift of the Spirit that intrigues me no end, I love this gift, it’s called the gift of prophecy.  And this particular person has such a precise gift of prophecy that many times he’s accused of collaborating with the pastor of a church because he is so accurate, on yesterday’s broadcast, the way he started he almost ended.  He gets up in front of a church the first time he’s going to prophesy, he’s beginning to hear some things, He’s already moved in the supernatural, he’s had a few words and he’s brought them to people and the people have said, “Yes, that accurate.”  So he has that encouragement and he comes forward and he say, “The Lord would say” and he freezes, and it took a lot of courage for you to prophecy again Denny Cramer.  But tell me about you’re a member of a congregation and you have a dream about a member, now did you have enough chutzpah, that’s a Hebrew word for nerve to bring that forward to them.

Denny: I actually know what chutzpah means, yes I did.  I woke up from this very vivid dream, and I said, well, I’m just going to go to this couple and share this dream with them.  So it happened to be a dream about the wife and in the dream, so in the dream she said to me in the dream that she was having a physical problem with a very specific part of her body.   And in the dream, I knew that here physical body needed to be healed in sort of a personnel intimate part of her body, so I said, “Don’t think that I’m being forward here, but here’s the dream I had.”  And she looked and said, “I went to my husband last night and I said to him, “Honey, my body is not working properly in this rather personnel area and I need to go to the doctor,” and I said, “You’re joking.”  She said, “No, I went to my husband last night and said, “I have to go to the doctor, my body is sick and that’s exactly the part of the body that I had the dream about.”

Sid: That must have astounded her, but I have an idea Denny, it astounded you!

Denny: More than it astounded her, but that was the beginning of dreams and visions increasing in my life.

Sid: And then you began to have very accurate words of knowledge and wisdom.  What type of things did you know about people?

Denny: Well, I covered the full spectrum of human problems, I was also able to see the solutions, I’ve always been a very solution oriented prophetic guy, but I would see things that were yet to come and I would run them by my pastor.  He would say, “Well you know will have to see,” but they would begin to come to past.  I would have some warnings; I would see something’s that were coming on people’s lives.

Sid: Now, when you would say I would see, would you actually see, or would you hear or both?

Denny: Well, I am essentially a seer, I would see in my mind’s eye a low level visions.  If I could be honest with you, a Polaroid snapshot; the Lord gives me a series of Polaroid snap shots, there not colored, 3-D, there is no audio.  I see little about 3 by 4 inch black and white Polaroid snap shot pictures of situations; and all that I do is describe what I see.

Sid: You, according to my notes, when you lay hands on people many times you’ll see, but is it necessary for you to lay hands on people to see these things?

Denny: I do my best work by laying hands on people; obviously I can’t do that when I have a dream or a vision those things that can happen anyway.  But my best prophetic work is done when my hands are laid on the candidate that, moment of contact releases my anointing and that’s when the snap shots begin.

Sid: Does it always happen?

Denny: Absolutely, someone ask me the other day, in thirty-three years how many times has the gift not operated, be honest?  And I said, in thirty-three years it never failed to activate, not once, not once.

Sid: Now, have you said things to people and they have said, “Absolutely not!” and they’ve lied to you, and then did think that maybe I missed it?

Denny: Well, absolutely a prophet must always be open to the very real possibility that they are going to make prophetic mistakes, prophets are not perfect, their just prophetic.  So your first attitude needs to be gee maybe I did miss it, please forgive me, I would like to release you from that word, it causes you any kind of stress or tension.  But many times I know that people have actually missed what God has wanted them to know because they miss interpreted, they got ahead of God, they didn’t understand the terminology, so I’ve had a number…

Sid: But my concern is the other thing, where the person, you might nail them over a situation, they deny it and as a result that new prophet or that person that’s new at prophesy says, “I’m never going to do this again.”  That’s what concerns me.

Denny: Yeah, I experience all of that, certainly in the beginning, but yeah I know there’s people that will lie, I know that there’s will deny the fact, the reality, the truth of it, the accuracy of it.  As you said, in your introduction there are people that are sure that I have gotten with a pastor before the meeting, he’s told me who to go to and what to say because the prophesies were so accurate that even experienced Christians said, “No one is that good, and they actually thought..

Sid: Can you give me an example of how accurate they might be.

Denny: A sure, I have prophesied literal conversations that people have had.  I’ve had pastors say to me, I told that person in counseling yesterday the very same thing that you just said to them.  They’re going to think that I told you to say that.  So I’ve had people tell me I’ve prophesied actual private conversations that they’ve had, I’ve prophesied what they’ve been petitioning the Father about.  In other words, I prophesied their prayer list.  I’ve had them accuse me of you know getting in with the Pastor and the pastor telling me what to say because the level of accuracy was so supernatural that they just had never seen a prophet operate on this high of a level.

Sid: Now, I have seen people that have a tremendous healing ministry, but move in that type of prophecy where they say, you know a couple of days ago, I see you falling and having a pain in that area of your body and I have to believe the reason God does that is to build their faith so that may receive their healing.

Denny: Precisely, that is what this is all about, it is all about letting the church know that Jesus is a loving caring, intimate  personal God, the Head of the Church.  He chooses to relate to His kids, through these nine wonderful manifestations or gifts of the Holy Spirit.  And it’s all about love; He loves us so much that he put these nine manifestations in this church to let us know of this great love.

Sid: Now, we’re featuring this week your book “You Can All Prophecy.”  Did God tell you to write this, was there a strong prophesy about putting this together?

Denny: Absolutely, I was ministering on the road I believe in North Carolina and I was teaching on the prophetic and a lady walked up to me and said, “You need to make this a book.”  Well, I thought she was crazy, I have no degree in writing, I have no experience, I’ve never written a page yet she came along and said, “I should turn this into a book.”  So it stayed in me, I continued to feel that maybe this gal had something; so I wrote it first in 1981.  I have rewritten it now about five or six times and the latest addition or reversion that you are offering your listeners, so yeah, I actually wrote that book because of a number of prophecies where the Lord said, “I want you to put on paper what I have given you for the Church.”

Sid: What type of feedback are you getting from people that either sit under you seminar on prophecy, or and again you make it very clear not everyone is a prophet, but everyone can and should prophesy.  In fact one of the things that intrigued me because I’m aware of this also, is that you talk about the First Church, everyone was prophesying.  In fact in the First Church everyone would have had their own television show, because they all walked in miracles.

Denny: You are precisely right; I am a first century New Testament, Book of Acts, Epistles to the church kind of guy.  I don’t believe that the Bible is just a historical record of what once was.  I believe that it is not a description, because a lot of our fellow Christians read it as a description, but I believe the Book of Acts is a prescription.  I believe it’s for us, it is a prescribed way in which to conduct ourselves, it gives us insight into how the New Testament Church was birthed and what it’s to be about today.

Sid: I recently interviewed a young man who has a marvelous anointing for seer, s e e r and in the midst of his testimony, this is Jonathan Welton, he said that a prophet had prophesied over him about this gift and for the next thirty days he was able to see into the unseen world like few people have ever been able to see.  And then of course it cut off and God wanted to teach him how to operate it by faith, but he wanted it to have this exposure for thirty days.  And I said to him, “Well who is that prophet, that prophet, he intrigues me; who would prophesy such a thing that would cause you to move in a dimension that few people I know move into?”  And then he said that it was Denny Cramer and so I have on the telephone Denny Cramer.  And I found out some very interesting things about Denny, that he’s literally prophesied over thousands of people, he has prophesied over thirty-three years; and he also has a book on prophesy called “You Can all Prophesy.”  And the thing that I love about this book is although the title alludes to it, it really is written in such a simplistic anointed fashion that you can do what the title says; you can all prophesy it just literally pulsates with the anointing and the faith to prophecy.  But Denny I found out in looking over your fact sheet that you came to the Lord about the same time I did.  I was not a hippy like you, but you wandered into a Jesus People type of meeting.  Why did you even go there?

Denny: Well, it of course was very much a sovereign thing, I didn’t know that I was being drawn you know, to the Father, but I was.  I had moved from upstate New York, as a matter a fact Sid, Rochester, New York where you’re from.

Sid: I know, we have a lot in common, we came to the Lord about the same time, my mother was born in Rochester, New York.  I’m not from Rochester, but my family is.

Denny: Oh, your family, okay.  Well, I was in Rochester in 1971 attending school and I had gotten involve in the drug culture at the time, sort of the hippy movement.  But decided to leave college and I moved down to central Pennsylvania where I now live in August of ’71 and moved into a house across the street from these two Jesus people.  Well, I knew what Jesus People were because we as hippies called them Jesus Freaks because they looked like us and they had long hair and jean jackets and played guitars, but they didn’t do drugs and didn’t have sex and they were hippies without being hippies and we called them Jesus Freaks because they were always talking about Jesus and handing out tracks and carrying their Bibles.  So I accidently moved in next door to this young Jesus People couple.  So they gave me some Jesus papers, these were newspapers meant to copy the hippie papers of the day and on the front cover of these Jesus papers were these long haired Jesus People or Jesus Freaks playing their guitars; they had long hair jean jackets and I related to that look, being a hippy.  And they said, “You know we have meetings Thursday night.”  Well, I thought that was bazaar!  I was an Irish Roman Catholic kid and went to Mass Sunday morning and that was it.  And these Jesus People, who were Protestants, you know went to church during the week and so they said, “You can come to our meetings on a Thursday night.  Well, I was intrigued to find out what these Jesus People did in their meetings.  So I left work, went to the corner of Packer and Benet in this small rural central Pennsylvania town, and it said “First Pentecostal Church; I had no idea what that meant, a Pentecostal Church, I said fine, “This is where their meeting.”  I went in it was December 4, of 1971; thirty-eight years ago about two weeks ago; walked into this meeting and there all these Jesus People were and they were playing their guitars and banging these things called tambourines which I had never seen in my life.  They were singing happy songs, they were all happy looking and I thought I’m in a church full of people who are high.  I knew what that means, “high,” and I said, “These people are high, but the intriguing part was there was another group of old Pentecostal people whose average age must have been about eighty, long sleeve white shirts, black pants all the women had their hair up in buns and these old people were also high because they were smiling; they were happy.  Sid, I had never seen, happy old people, I had never seen happy people in a church singing happy songs, so I figured this entire church is high, they’re all high; the hippies were high, the old people were high.  Then an absolutely amazing thing happened; to my right just a few feet away one of these old men, I mean he was old, one of these old men stood up and he began to speak out a message in a language that I had never heard, I mean he yelled it and he’s yelling it in this language that I didn’t know what it was, but it was intiquing because everyone stopped, the music stopped and this man just stands up and speaks this message and he sits down.  Then to my left and old lady stands up, little an old, she stands up and she begins to speak in four hundred and fifty year old King James Version English, she began to say yeah, yeah thus sayeth the Lord and I had no idea why she was speaking it in four hundred and fifty year old antiquated English, but I knew Sid, I knew what she was doing was interpreting what he had said, so that I would get it.

Sid: Well, you know what’s so amazing to me in what the new phenomena called “Seeker Sensitive,” they pulled speaking in supernatural languages out.  But as a Jewish person that had no reference to anything you had more understanding than I did, in this Pentecostal Church I didn’t relate to anything.  I went to a prayer meeting and I heard someone speaking in tongues and I didn’t even hear the interpretation, but that was the thing that intrigued me and this is the thing that they’re cutting out, and as an unsaved Jewish person and you as an unsaved Catholic those were the things that intrigued us.

Denny: How about that, I immediately knew that what she was doing was for my benefit and I immediately wanted what they were selling.  I walked forward that night on December 4, 1971 and gave my heart to the Lord.  Here’s what Paul said about prophecy in our churches he said, “Unbelievers are going to walk in,” Sid and the prophets are going to be prophesying and the unbeliever’s will not run out of the church, they will fall down on their faces in our churches and they will say, “Wow, God is really in this place.”  The idea of seeker friendly Christianity don’t get me upset, I don’t want to talk about it, I don’t see it in the Bible.  The Holy Spirit, we owe Him an apology, we have insulted Him by telling Him that He will disrupt our services and He will drive sinners from our midst when He manifests Himself.  We owe Him an apology, I was not driven out Sid, I was drawn in.

Sid: Denny, do you remember the first time God started operating with you in the supernatural?

Denny: Absolutely, who wouldn’t; it started about two years after my conversion, I began to have an occasional spiritual dream and spiritual vision.  Didn’t know what they really were, didn’t know they were of the Spirit of God, didn’t know that they were revelatory in nature, but I would begin to share these dreams and visions with people and they were flabbergasted because they were very much the Holy Spirit; they were full of revelation, no one could of told me or shown me these things, if it was not the Holy Spirit.  So I began to experience the Holy Spirit in dreams and visions and then eventually that led to me experimenting in prophecy.

Sid: Well, tell me about the first time you prophesied.

Denny: Well, it was a disaster.

Sid: A disaster?

Denny: Absolutely!

Sid: Disaster, I mean here you had been really touching the supernatural, and having it confirmed, so why was it a disaster?

Denny: Well, having a dream and a vision is one thing, but being in the middle of a church service, the worship is getting ready to whine down and the Spirit of God begins to bubble up on the inside of me, is a little different than having a dream or a vision.  There I was in front of a group of people; I began to feel this stirring, this bubbling up, what I call prophetic effervesce in my spirit and words and sentences started coming to my mind that I recognized were not my own thoughts.  And I said, “Ah, this is prophecy!”  So I said, “I’m going to go for it.”  So the worship began to whine down, as the worship leader was hitting those last few notes I began to get the first sentences or two of this prophecy that Denny Cramer was going to give for the first time, it was going to be terrific, so the song ends, I open my mouth, and I say these words, “The Lord would say,” and when I did, Sid, I completely spooked myself, I froze, I choked, I panicked, I had never hear Denny Cramer say the Lord would say, I scared myself out of the prophecy, my mind went blank, I…

Sid: Oh, I can just picture that situation, it’s a wonder you ever tried again, but you did, and you have been prophesying for over thirty-three years, seeing things that would happen in the future.  But you are called to the everyday person to activate their gift of prophecy.  I love one of the chapters in your book; the title is “You Are Incredibly Gifted, You Just Don’t Know it.”

Denny: That right.

Sid: And you’re literally called of God to mystify the prophetic, it’s a how to book.