Sid Roth

Sid:  Getting ready for eternity to invade time; for those that are perhaps tuning in the first time my guest by way of telephone is Renny McLean.  Now Renny was born in England his mother is Jewish, father is Jamaican. At a young age at age 7 his mother had visitations from the Lord and was a seer.  He couldn’t get away with anything and when his mother said something it happened and that’s the way he was raised.  But at the age 7 literally a light came into his room and Jesus appeared and he had a Heavenly visitation.  He does not look at things the way most American Christians do, he looks at things from Heaven’s perspective as opposed to earth’s perspective. I have to tell you Renny although I am really enjoying your new book “Eternity Invading Time” I feel that I got to read it and reread it.  Now I’m not an ignorant person I’ve been a believer many years; I’m a college graduate not that that means so much. But I mean I shouldn’t have to do it, but I’ve got to read it and read it and then read it again; why is that Renny?

Renny:  Because when it comes to the realm of the Spirit the realm of the Spirit has to be perceived. Because it has to be perceived it means it has to be revealed. Because if it’s not revealed it’s not known; and that’s the reason why in fact that we have to read it again and again and again and again.  I’m telling you brother Sid we’ve had well known people read that book great theologians that are Spirit filled read that book and their exact words were “To get the fullness of this book you can’t get it in one sitting.” It’s not a bed time story read. I mean it’s not a bed time sit read; I mean no I mean it’s a time if you are…I just heard it Sid; see if we’re seeking God for the next level for that realm of the miraculous where we can tangibly experience it and move in it and manifest it you know you’re going to get answers to questions in that book.  Because I mean the answers are there; the answer; the answers are there in that book.  And that’s not me the author saying it that’s what well-known who have read the book have said.

Sid:  Well, it’s so new that you can’t have a great retail feedback but tell me one well-known person what he said about the book.

Renny:  Okay one well-known person who has said something about the book; Okay Dr. T.L. Lowery.

Sid: Well, many of us are familiar with him he has quite a reputation.

Renny: Yes, he read my book; I bumped into him at a book convention in Denver and we bumped into each other and needless to say I said “Lord if he’s supposed to have this book put him in my path.”  And the Lord put him in my path and I said “Dr. Lowery we have a mutual friend Marcus & Joanie Lamb.”  He said “Well, praise the Lord” here’s the book and I promise you this will change your life.  He read that book three times in one day and 24 hours he called my office requesting several more of those books it so changed his life and it’s still changing his life today.

Sid: Now I want to ask you a few questions just because many of our listeners are not familiar with you.  I am in awe of the various creative miracles that occur so often in your ministry.

Renny: Yes.

Sid: Tell me about some creative miracles involving eyes.

Renny:  Okay, oh oh beautiful. Okay years ago and I mean and I’m saying it’s relatively new I guess it’s relative it’s not that far because all time is relative. Some years ago I was in Washington preaching and I remember one day I was there for three nights it was a three night event and the glory of the Lord was in the meeting each night. There seemed to be overwhelming sense of God’s presence and glory.  And I feel that glory coming on us now even as we speak you know don’t be surprised if while you’re hearing this broadcast you’re just being healed.  And it was an awesome presence of God in the meeting; and I’ll never forget that the glory was manifesting and I think people was worshiping because we teach this principal about the glory of God for the miraculous.  We teach this principal with great depth this is what we say to people.  God inhales our worship; He inhales it and He exhales the glory. What God exhales is based on what He inhaled. If our worship doesn’t ascend into the nostrils of God there is no manifestation in the glory.  So the question is how much of the glory do we really want; so we worship…

Sid: So the people… I’ve got to put a God commercial in right now Renny.  So the people who go to meetings and say “I’m waiting for the superstar to speak you’re taking too long with the worship” have missed what’s going on.

Renny: Totally they’ve missed it; they’ve missed it because you got to create the atmosphere for the worship for the miracles to manifest.  The tangibility of the miracles is based on the atmosphere.

Sid:  I love the statement that you made Renny I’ve got to repeat it; “God inhales our worship and exhales His glory.”

Renny: Yes He does; oh yes.  See the problem is in the church that we either don’t worship long enough or if we do we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense of what we’re doing.  Because we’ve often at times worship as if it’s the thing to do and we don’t realize we’re creating the environment that’s on; sorry we’re creating Heaven’s environment in the earth’s realm. 

Sid: Let me ask you a question that I’ve been thinking about actually ever since I’ve been reading your book where to talk about the new song which most Christians have never even heard of.  But I was thinking about a signs and wonders ministry that most people think of when they hear signs and wonders and that’s Benny Hinn.

Renny:  Right.

Sid:  And of course I know Benny but also knew Katherine Kuhlman and both of them understood the dimension that you’re talking about.

Renny: Oh my Lord.

Sid: If you take the worship out of a Benny Hinn meeting or previously a Katherine Kuhlman meeting I don’t think you’d have the same miracles.

Renny: Well, the truth is you wouldn’t have miracles at all because the secret of it if you remove a fish from water it dies; life corresponds with environment.  Well when you remove worship from the church there’s no correspondence to Heaven.  So His kingdom isn’t coming and it’s not being done on earth as it is in Heaven because in Heaven worships going on.  And in Heaven everything is healed there’s nothing in Heaven that incomplete in fact if we realize it and looked at it in the realm of the Spirit that’s when it means if we realize what the worship the miraculous would manifest but we stop at the point of breakthrough you know. We either worship to fill in a place or to fill in a spot in the service but we don’t realize that we’re filling in blanks and the atmosphere for the supernatural to manifest.  We’re charging the atmosphere with our worship and I’ll tell you Sid why it’s so important when I say this because at times we go to services and we look for the musicians to carry the worship.  But people don’t realize this the original sound of the glory is on your voice, the voiceprint of God is in our voice when we’re worshiping God and God in Spirit and in Truth.  That means when you open your mouth to worship God knows who’s worshiping in the church; He knows who… that’s real scary.  God knows who’s worshiping in other words you can’t hide in the service; everybody’s voiceprint is different; just how your thumbprint is different.  If we realize our voiceprint in the realm of the Spirit is attached to a miracle that means the miracle is in our mouth as we worship God the miracles would start to break forth.  The problem is we wanting somebody else’s worship to bring us our side to Heaven.

Sid: But what if someone goes to a good Spirit filled church but their really… worship isn’t the highlight and they see it but they decide they’re going to worship God with all their worth even if the rest of the congregation isn’t.  What will happen to that person?

Renny: Worship is contagious; the secret of it is it takes one person sometimes to start it and as you start the bull rolling other people will step in the flow and step in the river of God.  The secret of it is you’ve got to see yourself at that moment in time as the person that God anointed with the Spirit of worship to bring in the glory in the church.  Then as you start to worship others will start to step in.

Sid: You know another thing that I was just talking about myself is many times the words in the songs are unbelief; they sound wonderful but there plain unbelief and I don’t want to proclaim that and so what I’ll do is I’ll just sing in unknown tongues.

Renny: Oh, that’s wonderful I do that all the time (Laughing) oh that’s good, that’s the secret because what people do not realize is that what you are confessing is what you are decreeing.

Sid: I refuse to proclaim with my lips some of the words of some of the popular songs.

Renny: Oh sure I totally agree with you because I certainly don’t do it; in fact many times when songs are sung that do not match what Heaven’s says about us many of the times I just sing in the Spirit.  I just sing in the Spirit because I’m not going to attach that word to my spirit because I’m aware that want I’m saying what we’re saying is what we’re sowing and what we’re sowing is what we’re going to reap.

Sid:  Renny, your new book “Eternity Invading Time.”

Renny: Yes sir.

Sid:  It’s a now book; if you want to understand what is going on in the earth from Heaven’s perspective, and I have to believe a lot of what if not all of this book came really from the Spirit of God.

Renny: Oh, let me tell you sometime for years God had dealt with me on it and really and truly because it came from the throne of God; it came from the throne of God. And I mean every chapter in that book was birth out of the visitation of God that we had had in one of our meetings. So everything that you see that’s in print in that book is actually in the at… came out of the atmosphere of God’s glory with great signs and wonders followed.  It came out of a miracle atmosphere.  That’s why people who read that book they don’t just receive miracles and experience miracles, but they learn how to move in miracles.

Sid: Well, I have to tell you that the title “Eternity” that’s God’s realm.

Renny: Yeah.

Sid: “Invading Time” that’s the realm we’re in it’s as if you state in your book “Eternity is drawing closer to earth.”

Renny: Yes it is oh my goodness yes because time is shortening; time is shortening Yeshua is coming and time is shortening. That simply implies that the time that we have left on the earth… everything that is prophesied has to take place in this time frame.

Sid: Whoops we’re out of time oh unfortunately we’re in that earth realm right now; one day we we’ll be in eternity realm even on the radio.

Sid: I wish you could hear my conversation with my guest before I go on the air it’s so good I say “Stop, we’ve got to say that on the air.” Because my guest this week is Dr. Ray Strand; a Medical Doctor that has for the last what was it 7 years Ray?

Ray:  Eight or nine years.

Sid:  Eight or nine years specialized in nutrition which most MD’s have how much training in medical school?

Ray: Oh, about 10 minutes.  

Sid: (Laughing) Ten minutes! How long does the average big city physician spend with his patient? What’s the average?

Ray:  About 8 minutes.

Sid: Eight minutes; there’s something wrong with this picture.  Let me tell you what you said and I quoted this earlier in the week “That we can’t rely on doctors, we must do our homework; we must become proactive; we can’t be like I used to be like someone that buries his head in the sand and whatever that doctor says is fine.”  Because as you were talking earlier this week about the Federal Drug Administration it’s not quite as pure as it used to be because they rely on money from drug companies to do the testing.  Is that correct?

Ray: Well not only that, yeah you’re correct on that Sid, on half of the budget the FDA comes from the pharmaceutical industry that they’re supposed to be policing.  And the sad thing is that the FDA is under a lot of pressure at the present time by Congress and obviously if you’re paying the bill to FDA you want your drugs approved quicker and more frequently.

Sid: And not only that, every time I turn on the television I see an advertisement.  I’ve never see this before.  It’s almost epidemic; another advertisement pushing a drug.

Ray:  Well isn’t that amazing that they’re advertising prescription drugs, the only way that you can get it is from your doctor. And my first gut reaction when I saw that was “Why are they doing that?” Well, the study show that Sid that when that patient comes in and asks for that specific drug 90% of the time he walks out with that script in his hands. And the pharmaceutical industry knows that and so that’s the pressure that they put on doctors.

Sid: So you doctors are dependent on the pharmaceutical industry to test the drug? You are dependent on them to make you knowledgeable of it. And you’re now going to be dependent on it for them selling it for you.

Ray:  Well, that’s correct there’s a lot of pressure when someone comes in and say “I want this particular pill or that one” and we’re willing to oblige them.  And even though doctors like to take a high road and say “We should look at third party information and all of this medical information.”  The reality is they don’t spend all of this money by the pharmaceutical industry sending in all of these drug reps into our office if they weren’t effective.

Sid: I have to ask you a question.  Is there any as an MD that is a Christian; I’ve always been curious about this.  “Is there any ulterior motive for a particular doctor to prescribe a specific drug?”  Do they get any benefit that you’re aware of?

Ray:  Sid, I know I get asked that question a lot and the answer to that is a simple, “No.”

Sid: Good. (Laughing)

Ray:  Other than maybe a free lunch or something you know that they’re talking…

Sid: But someone’s life is dependent on giving the right medicine.

Ray:  Well doctors aren’t prescribing basically the wrong medicine; we just have so many choices now. I mean you look at the blood pressure medication we probably have 100 different medications we could prescribe.

Sid: Well speaking of blood pressure, speaking of back problems, and different pain in the body.  I’ll tell you one of my frustrations.  I know that God is a healer; I know that He can heal anything.  When I pray for people and when the people that are grossly overweight that have back problems God does a miracle, He’s so gracious, He heals them.  But then that problem comes back because of the cause of the back problem was that they were grossly overweight.  Or I pray for someone with high blood pressure and God causes a miracle to happen but then in your opinion why does that high blood pressure come back?

Ray:  Well people do not know there’s physical and biological laws that occur in the way that we treat our body and how we try to take care of this temple of the Holy Spirit. And what is happening is that people abuse themselves. Maybe knowingly and unknowingly and the Christians are probably worse than any group out there. And so what happens is everybody can have a healing from the Lord or a miracle. And then they go back to these old abusive lifestyles and people… what is it?  Well, we don’t exercise, we don’t move that body, we get into a carbohydrate addiction, we’re stuck on this high glycemic carbohydrates. But you know Sid there are good fats, there are good proteins, and there are good carbs. People simple need to know what they are and they need to eat them because our body needs them, that’ s the way God created them.

Sid: Now you say in your book that heart problems are not caused by high cholesterol, but that’s the main number that an MD looks at and if your number isn’t right they give you a drug. What do you mean by that statement?

Ray: Well what we are finding out, and this is something I’ve known and have been teaching and talking about for the last 9 years. Heart is not a disease of cholesterol it’s an inflammatory disease.  It’s caused by low grade inflammation of that artery.  And the healing that’s supposed to be trying to occur from the immune system actually gets carried away and this inflammation continues. So over half of the people that actually have heart attacks Sid have normal cholesterol levels and so what happens is that people are convinced that it’s just too much cholesterol in our bloodstream that’s building up and that’s what the pharmaceutical industry wants you to believe.  But as you keep lowering and lowering cholesterol it’s not the answer.  In fact LDL, you know the bad cholesterol the bad cholesterol everybody talks about?

Sid: Right.

Ray:  It is not bad as native cholesterol it only becomes bad once it becomes changed or modified by these excessive what we call free radicals or that charged oxygen molecule. And then it can cause this inflammation.  So yeah…

Sid: So, what good is the medication based on what you’ve just told me?

Ray:  Well I don’t believe it’s really all that important if people knew that they are doing. Because if you really understand you know there are several different causes of inflammation. But now that we’re hearing more about inflammation is that what they’re finding out is that the drugs like Lipitor or Zocor that lower cholesterol they also decrease inflammation in that artery. So the pharmaceutical industry now is starting to let this information out so you’re going to read a lot about inflammation, not only as a cause of heart disease but Alzheimer dementia, cancer, of arthritis of all of this.  And so we are going to hear more and more…

Sid: I mean we’re hearing so much about Alzheimer’s right now.

Ray:  Right.

Sid: You’re saying that this is one of the major causes? I’ve never heard this before.

Ray:  Oh yes.

Sid: I thought they said that they didn’t even know the cause of Alzheimer’s.

Ray:  They know the cause, they just don’t know how to prevent it or what to do.

Sid: But your book says they you know preventive for Alzheimer’s.

Ray:  Oh yes.

Sid: I mean, you’re saying so casually so many people are suffering from this or going to suffer from this.

Ray:  Well the problem is it’s like in medicine what happens Sid is that doctors diagnose much of our disease at the very end stage.  For example, when we just heard just various people like Michael J. Fox who has Parkinson’s disease.  You know that he knows that 80% of the brain cells were already gone by the time we diagnosed it.  Well, the same thing happened when President Reagan you know when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s which we first diagnosed him 80% of the brain cells involved were already damaged.

Sid: So all the medicine in the world short of a miracle of God couldn’t have helped him.

Ray:  Right. So what happens is we have to prevent these diseases and the way you prevent them at the core of the cause. Which is oxidated stress which is the dark side of oxygen or we’re rusting inside…

Sid: Which I promised we’d talk about, I’m glad you got there.

Ray:  And that is even though oxygen is essential for life itself it’s almost inherently dangerous for our existence. And so what we’re finding is over 70 of these chronic degenerative diseases are the result of what I call the oxygen or that we’re rusting inside. The same process that changes a cut apple to brown or rust metal is rusting us inside.  I can explain that process. The simplest way that I can explain it Sid is that if you’re watching a home fire burn 95% of the time it burns just fine but occasionally there’s a spark and out comes a cinder and burns a little whole in the carpet. Well, that’s not a big deal but month after month and year after year you got a pretty ratty carpet right in front of your fireplace. And so what you have to realize is that cinder is like a charged oxygen molecule or a free radical. But the carpet is our body so whatever our body wears out first is what kind of a disease we end up with.  If it’s a brain it could be Alzheimer’s, dementia or Parkinson’s, if it’s the joints you could get arthritis, if it’s the arteries you could have a heart attack or a stroke. But God did not leave us defenseless, what we have is a tremendous anti-oxygen defense system which is like the glass doors of the fine wire mesh that you put in front of the fireplace.  And even though the sparks are still going to fly you’re body or carpet is protected. And so it all becomes a matter of balance and so that’s my book “What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know About Nutritional Medicine.”

Sid: That’s such a tragedy, I mean we go to our doctors for help, they want to help us why don’t they… why didn’t you understand this for most of your career as a medical doctor?

Ray:  Well, because I wasn’t trained in it.  I wasn’t trained in preventing disease; I was trained in treating pretty serious end stage disease with my drugs, surgery, and all of our procedures we do. That’s the way doctors work; we’re not trained in preventing disease. We don’t know anything about it. And I was just a typical doctor and now when we talk about preventive medicine in like HMO’s and stuff like that; are you going to your doctor what are they doing Sid?  They’re just looking for early signs of silent disease or disease.  We want to know is that cholesterol up, is your blood pressure up, do you have silent sigs of diabetes

Sid: And you know I don’t take…personally I don’t take medicine.  However I do take vitamins and herbs and when I talk with you you just said “Sid you just go on this diet and take the right small number of vitamin and herbs but by going on this diet and exercising you don’t even need some of those herbs that are supposed to lower your cholesterol, that are supposed to lower your blood pressure.  I wish… oh we’re out of time, Mishpochah.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear God’s voice and be obedient.  What more could you… I can’t ask for anything more than that.  And so I’m so excited my friend Dr. Gary Whetstone was in Israel in 2005; he had an open vision in which he saw people marching like armies throughout all of history.  And some heard God’s voice, but most of them what they did for God was burned with fire; they might have been saved themselves, but they wasted their entire purpose on planet earth.  Now you were telling me as we ran out of time that you had the most supernatural experience Gary this was before you took the course by the way; I’m sorry before you developed the course.  You heard the audible voice of God through a very supernatural means; told to purchase a building, you’re a pastor, you wanted a church in that area you had leaders that wanted it; so you naturally finished God’s statement. He told you to buy it and you had all the plans; A-B-C you put it all together with your logical brain kicking into gear and you found out once after that open vision you started hearing God’s voice that “Yes, He called you to buy the building but not make it a church. And so you sold the church; what did you do with the proceeds out of curiosity?

Gary: We paid off the entire campus of property that we have here in Delaware and the whole ministry everything that we have in other church building we owned that is running that God did speak to do and that is continuing and we paid everything off.  We have no debt, everything is completely debt free.  We made $1,500,000 on that transaction.

Sid: Now when you put together this course based on the revelation you got on how to hear God’s voice and the first people that took it they were members of your church.  I understand it had affects in every area of their life.  Let’s take one marriage; give me an example of what happened when people started really hearing God’s voice for themselves about their marriage.

Gary:  I’m teaching on hearing the voice of God and a man is coming up with a fiancé to get married, he’s in his 30’s; beautiful guy, beautiful girl looked like everything’s got it together they’re… and I said “Did you hear God’s voice.”  He said “Look, he said “This is about… he quoted the scripture “He who finds a wife finds a good thing and gets favor from the Lord.”  I said “Okay, is she your wife?” He says “Well, my divorce is final.”  And I said “Oh, you’re divorced,” and I said “What about your ex-wife, is she remarried?”  He said “Well, I don’t know I don’t have any contact with her.”  And I said “Well, how do you know this is your wife?”  He’ says “Well, I’m divorced” I said “Where does divorce have authority with God.”  He said “Well, we have ill reconcilable differences.”  And I said “What is that, that’s selfish; you have yourself, she’s got herself and you don’t have two self’s together.”  And he said “I’m not going to revisit my past,” and I said “Wait a minute,” I said “No, let’s find out from God is God speaking to you.”  Next thing you know he’s a little upset with me, she’s very upset with me because she figured “Finally I got married.”  He comes back he said “You know, I don’t know what it is but I got this thing I went to God and I got this love for my ex-wife.”  And I said “Where is she?”  He goes “I don’t know.”  I said “You better find her.”  He said “This is… you can’t believe what you did to me.”  I said “I didn’t do anything to you.”  I said “You’re going down and pathway of emotion and flesh and natural desire and here is God and He is speaking.”  His wife was in California, he didn’t even know where she was, had no contact with her; he finds her there, I don’t l know how he found her but he discovers her in the next week or so.  They communicate, they get back together and they get remarried again; I mean just the supernatural…

Sid: Was this very unusual situation or is does it happen many times in your church?

Gary:  Oh, we have right now in the church at least 20 families that have been completely divorced and remarried.  In fact, this Sunday I have stood with a woman for 18 years for her husband who has been gone from her.  All of a sudden he comes back last week, this is 18 years later; she stood she raised her children to obey God; they’re in college, they’ve graduated, one graduated from college, the other one is in college now.  The children came to me on Sunday, this just happened just a couple of days ago, and they said “Pastor Gary you got to call mom.”   I said “What happened, she goes “Dad came; he goes “Dad came home.”  I said “Praise God.”  But he said “But you don’t understand he came home with another family.”  And I said “What do you mean?”  He had been living with another woman, had children, all of a sudden he hears God speak to him, he’s been in rebellion and he’s been in disobedience; he’s walked in the flesh and he comes back to his wife and he tells his wife “I have other children, will you take them as yours?”  So the kids are standing there in front of me and they say “What do we do?”  I said “You got other brothers and sisters, thank God.”

Sid: You know, hearing God’s voice, tell me some of the other voices that people hear when they don’t hear God’s voice.

Gary: Oh, they hear voices of logic take them down the course of normal procedure that takes place in life just what everybody does the engine of life.  People are so accustomed to waking up, going to work, doing the same things. How do you know you are at work at a place that God has even called you?  How do you know that you are even in a country that God called you to be in?  People do so many things out of rote and just traditional functionality that if they heard God many people would change countries, they would change jobs, they would change locations; they would operate… I mean I heard God, I am making serious money in business, and God speaks to me “Sell, it.”  I said “Sell it?”  I knew that was it, I was going to sell the companies and that’s what happens, people get these thoughts…​

Sid: But logic could not have told you to do that, only God could have told you to do that.

Gary: I am making hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in business and this is in the 70’s early 80’s like 81.  I’m 28 years old, 29 years old.  I finally got a national franchise put together that I owed for the entire 48 states; I’m ready to make millions every year without even thinking and God says “Sell it, walk away.”  See the voice of God is what directs us; sometimes people are looking for where they have favor, they think favor leads them.  That’s a traditional, that’s a favorite Christian principal, favor will lead you.  Favor doesn’t lead you, God leads you.  He may lead you into the lion’s den so the lion can’t eat you so God will be glorified and have vindication in a nation.   

Sid: Now I’m looking at the success of the first church and what’s going on with what we call church in America some of the… we have a Hebrew word mishegoss, the craziness going on; the seeker sensitive movement it works logically people should do it but what’s wrong with that?

Gary:  The basis is social acceptance; social networking; the interaction platform of favor brings favor; joy brings joy; happiness brings happiness; peace brings peace.  Don’t bring any controversy to bare, don’t bring truth to bare because every man is a truth unto themselves.  And as this placated deception permeates and becomes what some call Christianity, and here is the Living God who rose His Son from the dead to put the Son of God’s life in us; so God can direct us.  We don’t direct God; the fallacy is we think God is a bellboy that we ding when we ding and He comes when He comes to our beckon call.  And we are His servants Sid; we are called by God under His voice to do His will that the difference is like night and day.  There is such clarity of hearing the voice of God in the earth; God’s Spirit is speaking to every person listening right now.  You hear the voice of God; there are some that are listening to this program and you are in the middle of just.. I’m watching people washing dishes, I’m watching somebody driving their car.  I’m watching another person just sitting at a living room setting and their listening kind of arbitrary and now there’s attention brought and there’s a voice of God speaking.  There is a ending of what you’re doing now and the beginning of what God is doing next.  There is a current present voice of God speaking in the Spirit of the children of God listening at this moment and they hearing the voice of God will end what they’re doing and do what God’s speaking.  Those of you listening right now you can feel the presence of God drawing you; you can sense the shutting down of that voice of logic and reason and the plethora of constant drone of negatively.  You go from problem to problem and there’s no significant sense of fulfilling God’s will in your life.  God is changing it right now.

Sid: There is such an anointing on the teaching that Dr. Gary Whetstone does on this course; the title is “Today, Hear His voice.”  This is a Bible School course designed for leaders but the truth is everyone must do these two things.  And I have to believe that’s always been essential but if now; with what’s going on planet earth.  I mean let’s just suppose the scenarios about the US dollar are true and it will be worth nothing someday.  That doesn’t mean diddly to someone who can hear God’s voice and be obedient to it.  So this is 6 DVD’s it’s an entire course; it’s a study guide, and if you take this you will hear God’s voice.  Just because you hear God’s voice it doesn’t mean you’ll be obedient; but I believe the anointing is so strong on this course that you’ll not only hear God’s voice but you’ll be obedient to what he tells you to do… This is what you’ve been crying out to God for.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. In order for that to happen everyone that knows the Messiah everywhere must walk in their destiny. It’s a wonderful orchestra and each musician has a special part, not one better than the other. When your find your destiny and walk in it you will be the happiest person on earth. My guest Lance Wallnau has found his destiny and is about ready to walk into new destiny with God. Many of you are about ready to walk into a new destiny with God. As the 2 of us talk about what God has made real in our lives I believe the Holy Spirit will begin to speak to you. We were talking on yesterday’s broadcast Lance what this nice pastor who gets invited to speak for about 250 people connected with the United Nations. He’s thinking “What am I going to say to these people I can’t preach the gospel” what was the actual reason they wanted you to speak?

Lance: This is the amazing thing they had heard that I was an authority on leadership development.

Sid: Because you’re a pastor?

Lance: To help teach them, how to expand their capacity, to achieve their dreams for United Nations goals that they have.

Sid: Okay I can chuckle but I’m sure you didn’t chuckle when you determined “What am I going to speak about?”

Lance: You know till you walk with God I remember years ago I heard Art Katz say that he said “You start walking in faith the next thing is that you’re not knowing what you’re going to say until you get up and open your mouth.” Talk about living on the prophetic edge that’s just about what happened to me.

Sid: So basically what did you say?

Lance: The main message the Lord spoke to me is that there’s a leadership vacuum at the top of the nations. That if we will fill the vacuum with the authority of our utterance. You know Jesus when He spoke they said He spoke as one having authority. That meant that when he spoke there was anointing on His words that cleave the atmosphere in half. So I just simply went up and began to describe to them the way in which we’re designed to walk as human beings; the way in which nations were designed to relate to each other; and the way in which each individual has gifts and callings, and talent, and destiny that God put in them for His own purpose and glory. If we understand how this works we can actually activate that gifting.

Sid: Now this is a secular group mostly probably nonbelievers in the Messiah for sure. How did they react?

Lance: It’s remarkable. This was my wakeup call.  I had people coming up to me and giving me handshakes from Muslim and communist nations in these various meetings. Sneaking me their email addresses and saying to me in my ear “Our country needs this.” It had me in tears Sid because I realized that what we have as a teaching community the information, the revelation we have, if we could learn to adapt our language we could penetrate any culture.

Sid: Now they actually invited you back another time to speak at the UN, tell me about that.

Lance: The next invitation was even funnier because now I’m going to be speaking to all Ph.D.’s, the best scientist in the world from the UN in Canada; have been sent in there for a couple of weeks for special training from the world’s best in the area of oceanography, and ocean affairs or something. Here again I’m arriving there I’m saying “Lord what am I doing?” When I get there… I had a manual that I prepared for believers and it said “Destiny By Design – How to Understand Your Gifts and Bring Them Out.” I sent it ahead because it was the only thing I had in literature and the professor stopped me at the gate when I got to the college where the sessions were and they said “Dr. Wallnau we apologize but the UN and the University has a very strict policy regarding proselytizing. Unfortunately your language is extremely pro… one view point.” Of course Jesus and I said “Yes.” They said well we can’t distribute the manual. So I breathed in and the Lord basically showed me stealth bomber going in, and He just basically spoke to me and said “I’m sending you in here you simply will go ahead and teach without having to quote chapter and verse and watch the power of My word.” So for 3 days I activated these into being the people God called them to be, discerning their talents, their abilities, understanding how to communicate, how to relate to each other, respecting differences, learning how to negotiate and be peacemakers. By the time I was done they said they had universally said, I’m not saying because it’s me, universally they said “It was the most high impact 3 days of training they’ve ever had at that UN event.” The head of the department took me to the faculty lunch room and asked me if I was franchising the material so that he could take it up to Kobian and at the UN.

Sid: And this was the material it’s too heavily slanted towards Jesus?

Lance: Exactly. So what I did was I simply pulled out the antagonizing references and simply taught the word of God. The thing I realized Joseph demonstrated his gifting before Pharaoh. He interpreted Pharaoh’s dream, he demonstrated the superior wisdom of God’s counsel, and in concert by the time that was done Pharaoh comes to the conclusion “This man has the spirit of God.” Joseph didn’t go in and say “Hi I’m a Jewish prophet I need to tell you about Jehovah.”

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: He goes in and interprets the guys dream at which point the guy says “You know you’ve got something none of us have.” So it was clear to these people when I was done that I revealed to them my beliefs about Jesus, my personal beliefs and how it works for me. There wasn’t a person in there Sid that by day 3 wasn’t ready to receive more revelation on God because I built a platform of credibility first.

Sid: What we were talking about on yesterday’s broadcast Mishpochah is supernatural favor. Something you go into in your teaching CD’s “In a Heartbeat” that is really the thing that makes you tick Lance is most believers segment the supernatural of God to “Religious Activities.” God wants us to take the gospel out the 4 walls and into the market place. Explain.

Lance: Absolutely, you know this came to a head for me. I work with prophets… I’m first a teacher, second a prophet. So one of my friends Kim Clement prophesied over a man in an audience in Atlanta, and he said “Sir the Lord tells me you’re going to have a political call upon your life and you’re going to have a son named Caleb, and he’s going to follow you in your footsteps.” Well this man’s name is Michael Crotts he was considering running for state senate and that prophetic word pushed him over the edge. He went out on a campaign trail Sid he was out campaigning for 6 months based on the prophetic encouragement of that word from the prophet. He falls down dead of a heart attack. They wheel him into I believe it was the Atlanta General he’s in there for 27 minutes flat line, one of the longest recorded flat line subjects ever to be revised. Twenty-seven minutes flat lined his wife comes running in and with the prophetic word in her hand. She grabs him by the foot and starts to say “The word of the Lord says you’re going to have a son and your son’s going to be named Caleb and he’s going to walk…”

Sid: But he’s dead. [Laughing]

Lance: And he’s dead! The physician Sid called for security. They said “Get this delirious Pentecostal out of here.” She refuses to leave and she’s holding on… it’s almost like a situation comedy except it’s serious. She’s holding on to his leg prophesying, the security is holding onto her other arm pulling her out and the physicians are yelling because they can’t resuscitate the man. In the meantime Michael Crotts is nowhere near the chaos he’s out of his body in heaven. He’s standing Sid in front of a great ocean, the ocean suddenly has 7 islands. The islands come up out of the ocean and a great mountain, they form into mountains, and a great mountain forms behind them. Now here you an ocean, 7 mountains and a great mountain. Yeshua speaks to this man and says “Those 7 mountains are 7 world kingdoms, and that mountain in the middle is the mountain you are called to go into. It is the political arena, but there must be agreement.” Then the Lord points to the great mountain behind the other mountains that basically overshadows all of them. He says “That mountain is the mountain of My kingdom and it is greater than all the kingdoms of the earth.” At that moment Phyllis Crotts shifts her strategy from prophesying over the dead man to commanding him to live. She say “Michael in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ come back into your body now!” At that moment his heartbeat came back he sucked in breath and he resuscitated. The doctors turned to her… this is amazing you know doctors this is an unusual situation so we have to give them some grace. They turned to her and say “Now you’ve done it he’ll be brain dead!”

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: Twenty-seven minutes… blaming her for resurrecting him.

Sid: [Laughing] Well at least they didn’t say he stinks, but go ahead.

Lance: [Laughing] All of sudden she inhales fear and thinks “What did I do?” What do you do reverse that after you send them back in, send them back out? Suddenly his voice breaks the silence and he says “Where is my son Caleb?” The prophetic word yet unfulfilled was still in his spirit. He spoke, he sat up, he was completely resuscitated went on to be elected a state senator and the 2 of them went on to adopt a child named Caleb. Now here’s my point, Sid the story itself is phenomenal, but what captures me is Jesus says to the man “Basically I’m giving you life because there’s a purpose, a mountain, for you to take and it’s the mountain of politics.” Now if that was one of the 7 my question is what are the other 6?

Sid: Hmm.

Lance: To what degree is God not inviting you and your listeners and all the people I’m talking to to rise up fulfill destiny and come into pressing into taking possession of territory. I think that’s the issue. I’m doing a wealth conference, speaking at a wealth conference in Canada British Columbia. Loren Cunningham who’s got Youth With a Mission pulls me aside, he’s a speaker. He says “Lance did I ever tell you about the 7 mountains?” I said “Huh! You know about the 7 mountains?” He said “Yeah. One day Bill Bright and I were gonna go to breakfast, and we had never met. Our staff’s put us together. Bill Bright with Campus Crusade, and me with Youth With a Mission, and it was time we met. We had heard about each other. The morning we met before we met the Lord gave us both a word and vision. We both saw 7 world kingdoms that we were to challenge each other to take the next generation to train them to penetrate these kingdoms.” He said “Lance we sat down and to our surprise we both had the same 7 mountains.” He said “They were:

1. Church
2. Family
3. Education
4. Government
5. Media through technology and communication
6. Arts and entertainment, and athletics.
7. Financial business mountain

He who takes those mind molders shapes the culture.”

Sid:  I know you want to have a deeper intimacy with the Lord.  Why? Because your spiritual DNA was created for this. And that’s why I have Carlos Sarmiento on the telephone. And Carlos is a Pastor, he’s… as a matter of fact you didn’t tell me a whole lot about at your congregation you have a facility.  Is it open 24 hours a day for prayer?

Carlos:  Well, we’ve been open right now we started 6 years ago and so we are currently doing 152 hours a week; there’s 168 in any given week. So we’re at 152 but we are as a matter of fact this is the most busiest month we’ve experienced because we’re getting ready right now to launch into 24-7 prayer next month and we’re really really excited.  We’re in a lot of planning strategizing getting ready to launch 24-7 and our belief is that we’ll be 24-7 with continual worship and continual prayer until Jesus comes back.

Sid: Tell me about some of these amazing supernatural manifestations that are occurring in your prayer-room.  For instance tell me about the time that you heard loud music coming out as you were heading there.

Carlos:  Well, that was actually the people that… our worship leaders that open up the 6 AM day who start off the day. They of course because we’re not open 24 hours a day as of yet, so we normally close at midnight.  So one morning; I believe that it was a Monday morning where these worship leaders, husband and wife team who open up at 6:00 AM on a Monday. They came and the parking lot is empty there’s nobody is there and they’re the first ones there but they hear this loud music coming from inside the prayer-room the sanctuary.  They were puzzled by it, they were startled by it and they didn’t know what to think, they weren’t sure if they should go inside or not but it was just… They said that it was just the most beautiful singing that they had ever heard. And they were wondering “Who was in there?”  What worship team is actually doing the set right now and we’re supposed to be closed.  And they were really bewildered because there was no lights on in the building. So they open the building anyway and turn the alarm off and the moment they open the door and turn the alarm off the singing stopped, the music stopped.

Sid: Who was in the prayer-room?

Carlos:  It was angels; because there was no computer, there was no CD, there was no DVD, the alarm was on there was nobody in there. And so we began to you know as we began to… we like to word it this way as we began to build a portal for the Lord.  We were actually giving permission like Jesus said “You know from this day… from now on you will see angels descend and ascend upon the Son of man.”  So where ever Jesus is exalted you create a portal for the angelic activity and for heaven and earth to meet.  So began to all of a sudden have these angelic encounters.  So the beautiful thing is that it was staff members that were saying “We’ve never seen anything like this what’s going on?  We began to have also smells, we could smell different kind of aromas. We could smell the presents of the Lord that would begin to just fill the atmosphere.” So these encounters became almost like a sign to us that the presence of the Lord is not only there but that He is taking great pleasure in this place of continual night and day prayer.  And night and day worship that’s taking place here.

Sid: What reports have you heard about angelic activity in your prayer-room? Have people seen them, what are the angels doing?

Carlos: Well for example one of the most recent reports was not too long ago. Actually my wife is part of one of the worship teams. And the way the prayer-room operates we have a full band, with intercessors who are part of the team. And so we normally have like a 2 hour cycle of prayer and worship and 30 minutes of intercession. We go back into worship about 20 minutes and then another 20 minutes of intercession, and then we transition into the next cycle.  Well in one of the cycle that we were transitioning from worship about to go into intercession all of a sudden she saw a flash and her eyes were open and as the intercessor began to pray and agree with the music because we actually flow together with what we call it harp and bowl, the worship and the intercession works together.  It’s really a unique concept but anyway as that was taking place as the singers began to agree with the intercessor she saw an angel that was standing right in the middle of the platform and the angel was like violently moving its arm like it had a sword in its hand. And it was an exact coordination with the intercessor. So the intercessor was actually moving his arms like striking the ground, striking the atmosphere as she was praying.  And my wife said that it was very interesting that as the intercessor was moving it was being done by the angelic being that was there on the platform.  And she’s not the only one that’s seen this; we’ve had other worship leaders seeing angels in the room that they’re actually sitting among the crowd sitting with the congregation in the prayer-room with their hands raised worshiping Jesus, exulting Jesus. Because that really is the true nature of the Spirit of Prophecy, the Spirit of Prophecy is the worship and the exultation of Jesus. So we’ve seen over and over and over again people smelling fragrances of the supernatural; angels worshiping, angels interceding, angels agreeing with the prayers that are being offered up here in the House of Prayer.

Sid: Now, you believe that it is actually a partnership between man and God that is released through prayer that can actually change a family, change a school, change a city, even change the United States. What changes have you seen in Orlando where you’re located?

Carlos:  Well as a matter of fact I was just looking at an article just the other day about the crime rate. And we’re just beginning to see the crime rate in Central Florida to begin to drop on a regular basis. Even in the area that we live; we live on the west side of the city of Orlando. We’re beginning to see things be exposed. For example we’ve had reports even as of recently where human trafficking rings all of a sudden are supernaturally exposed.  And we had over 81 woman and children rescued and it’s not a coincidence that we had just spend like 3 days of prayer and fasting. We felt and urgency of the Lord to focus on the issue of human trafficking. And so we as a staff as a team we briefed about it. And we said “Okay, we’re going to pray and fast for the next couple of days.” And at the same time we had a very good friend who runs a ministry here in the Orlando area who was going to bring awareness to human trafficking. And so between the 2 of us as he was out there ministering in the streets we were interceding and praying and covering him in prayer. And then all of a sudden we get reports from the east coast where a hidden ring of human traffickers was suddenly exposed and it was one of the largest on the east Coast of Florida. And that over 81 victims were rescued; we’ve seen that before.  We have seen the police department speak to us and say “Hey, your prayers are working, will you please partner with us and so…

Sid: The Police Department has actually said that to you?

Carlos:  Yes as a matter of fact about 2 months ago I had a meeting with the Chief of Police to partner and to discuss how we can… because they said to us “We know that there is human trafficking happening in these areas and we need to be able to see it exposed; so you’re partnership and prayer will go a long way.” So we have agreed to with the local Police Department here in our city to cover them in prayer. And so every so often we will have communication with them so that we can see how we can continue to pray for the police.  Because I truly believe that the Holy Spirit has given the authority to govern the earth to the church. In the absence of Jesus the…

Sid: You know when I watch the news and I see the stuff going on between political parties and it’s congress and the senate and they’re just bog down.  And I’ll tell you what if there wasn’t hope in the invisible realm there flat would be no hope for America.

Carlos:  Absolutely, there would be no hope.  And that’s what the hope has to be the church. And that’s why I go back to it as we were talking in the previous program; we’ve got to back to returning to our first love.

Sid: Okay, we were talking about the Holy Spirit taught you that there are 3 major key heart issues.  The first was going back to your first love and developing intimacy. And I asked you about how you prayed.  But because of time, what is the second key heart issue?

Carlos:   The second key heart issue the Lord began to reveal to me was that we must, if we’re going to be love sick believers and enjoy the presence of the Lord we cannot do so apart of the character of Christ. And so one of the things that we focus here at our ministry and we seek to really in-steal in the hearts of believers is the Sermon on the Mount lifestyle, not only returning to our first love but living like Christ, Matthew 5, 6 and 7.  We call around here and especially in the houses of prayer we call Matthew 5, 6 and 7 as a constitution of the Kingdom of God. Just like the US governments go the constitution and the independence and things of that nature. We believe that the way the church can be the freest she can be and walk in the fullness of her destiny and calling is that if we live Matthew 5, 6 and 7.  We walk in the humility of Christ, I believe that the Spirit of God that there will be no limits to how much He can trust us. One of the reasons why the church is very untrustworthy with power is because we corrupt ourselves with power. The greater the anointing, the greater the temptation upon individuals, upon ministries to take the glory for themselves, I word it by saying that we prostitute the anointing. It’s kind of like James and John.  You know Jesus “Do you want us to call down fire because they would not allow us to walk through Samaria?” And Jesus says “You don’t know what manner of spirit you speak from.”  But we know from scripture that Elijah called fire down from heaven to consume people.  Why could Elijah do it, why could not James and John?  The difference is character, the difference is the disposition of the heart; the value of the character of Christ.  When we don’t have that character established and Jesus becomes everything in our lives we corrupt ourselves of power, we corrupt ourselves of the anointing.

Sid: What was the third key heart issue?

Carlos:  The third key heart issue I believe is to be in a place of expectancy. I believe that the church at this moment is not living in a place of urgency.  We are living pretty much… we’re surviving pretty much the success of ministry. So the Holy Spirit began to reveal to us that son, over and over again in the gospel I said “Watch therefore, be alert, you know when you see this happen wake up.” And then Paul’s writing as well.

Sid: Well, I’ll tell you what, we’re out of time but there is an urgency for you to be equipped in the teaching that was downloaded to Carlos in heaven.  It literally he is a forerunner and you are not listening to me by accident.  I want your intimacy with God to so accelerate.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be activated in the supernatural, that’s why I can’t wait to get his brand new book “The Kingdom of Power” and the 3 DVD’s in which he demonstrates after teaching and miracles break loose.  And I just want you activated in all of the power that God has for you; but Apostle Maldonado I want you to teach a little and then if God opens up the door for words of knowledge continue in that just as you did on yesterday’s broadcast.  But teach us a little bit.

Guillermo:  Okay, thank you Sid. It is important if you listen to me now that you understand for the next two or three minutes what I’m going to tell you.  1^st Timothy Chapter 1 verse 6 says and Paul talking to Timothy he said “I want you to stir up the gift that is within you.  So that means activation.  If He said “Stir up, the gift that is in you that means the gift was dead or was dormant.”  Many people that are listening to me now your gift is dormant or dead for any reason because of the atmosphere; because of knowledge; because of something you’re gift is dormant so I will activate you.  Number 2 so activation is something that when activation comes to you and I will do it right now with you is because I want you to be activated in the supernatural.  And somebody said, “And why in the supernatural?” because the moment you were born again you were born from Heaven and every believer that is born again the moment he’s born again in the Kingdom of God in that moment is activated in the supernatural.  And then why are not doing miracles then if you are a believer and you’ve been born again?  Because religion put away, push you away from the supernatural and that caused you to the supernatural to be dormant and that’s why you don’t dare to pray for people.  You don’t dare to believe in the Kingdom of Power because the religion told you no, that’s for the past Jesus doesn’t do that anymore so now I will activate you.  So activation is something that I will do for you; I will pray for you to be activated again in the supernatural. Number 2 impartation that’s another term for you in a very simple way I will explain to you.  Impartation is receiving a share; the word impartation means to impart a virtue; virtue to impart or to give virtue. So can we do that?  Can we share impartation; can we give virtue to the people?  Well, I don’t have it in my own; what I got I give unto you.  And where did I get it from?  I get it from God, in other words I don’t have anything in my human nature that I can say “Well, I can share with you virtue, I can share with you the power.”  I can impart to you something that I receive from God; so impartation is receiving something that you didn’t have.  Activation is receiving something that you already had but you lost it for some reason. So I’m going to pray for you because I want to release you into the miracles, signs and wonders for you to move in the power of God; for you to move in the power of Kingdom. So if you listening to me now I want you to stretch your hand toward the radio and where ever you are and let me pray for you to do two things.  If you need a healing, if you need deliverance; if you need a miracle I’m going to pray for you to receive it.  After you receive it you do an act, you do an action you correspond an action to your faith.  Second once I do that I will release that activation and impartation; in other words but yes you’re not close to me; you don’t lay hands on me.  That’s the problem you know the anointing sometimes is in the hands, sometimes it’s in my mouth; in your mouth.  So I will the anointing right now is upon my mouth I will release it to you so you be activated and we see that impartation for you to do what I do. And any believer can do it. Father in the Name of Jesus I give you praise and I give you honor; those people that are listening to me now they’re hungry and they’re desperate in a situation where the doctor said “You’re going to die or some of the people said “Well, I need supernatural provisions; some others said “Well, pastor I’m afflicted I’m addicted to alcohol.”  And some of them said “Well pastor I’m addicted to pills and some other people said “I’m full of fear so I don’t know what is your condition I can tell you “I’m going to bring Heaven on Earth right now.” Father in the Name of Jesus let Your Kingdom come, let Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. And I take authority over every spirit of sickness and disease right now “Go in Jesus Name, cancer die, blindness go in Jesus Name.  Deafness go in Jesus Name; back condition go in Jesus Name.”  There’s people with plates and screws, metal screws in your body God is changing screws and metals.  As a matter of fact there’s man a truck driver and you got metals in your body because you had an accident.  And God is changing metals into bones and into flesh right now.  There you go; there you go in Jesus Name.  There’s people that ears are being opened right now; afflicted people are afflicted to addictions to pornography; addiction to drugs and nicotine right now be delivered now in Jesus Name! Right now receive miracle where ever you are.  Father supernatural provision, money provision; if you need a job receive now supernatural provision receive it now. Creative miracles if you need a creative miracle it your missing an organ in your body right now receive organ.  If you need flesh, bones right now receive creative miracles in Jesus Name.  Somebody’s being… my God; God is doing powerful creative miracles right now; we will hear from this program people saying now I was missing bones and bones appear and flesh appear.  Hair, something is happening right now in Jesus Name.  And now Lord I activate and I impart upon those people that want to move in the power of the Kingdom and demonstrate it right now in Jesus Name receive be activated, be imparted now and receive virtue from Heaven.  Let Your Kingdom come Lord, let Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven; do it now receive it in Jesus Name.  Now you respond to power in Jesus Name amen and amen.

Sid: You know I believe that people received amazing impartations but people need to be taught step by step in a methodical fashion and that’s why I’m so excited finally the most significant book that Apostle Maldonado has ever written he told me. It’s called “The Kingdom of Power” it’s just been released; it’s a how to book and the 3 DVDs in which he teaches and then demonstrates and releases the impartation.  I believe that as you understand this some of the gifts that have been stirred up within you right now they’re going to be fully released… tell me briefly about you were speaking in a bullfighting ring and it was pouring down rain; what happened?

Guillermo:  You know Sid when we talk about the supernatural we’re talking about above and beyond.  Beyond what?  Beyond and above what, the laws of nature and when I get into this place it was pouring, it was raining and as matter of fact we lost …our equipment, very expensive equipment.

Sid: This was in Argentina.

Guillermo:  In Argentina; it was in Argentina people were… I mean in the rain; I mean people and the pastor in that church said to me “Pastor you need to pray fast because it’s raining and people they just want a miracle; they came from far.”  And the moment I stood up on the stage I heard the Rhema word of God and He said to me “I want you to speak to the rain.”  And I actually said this prayer saying “Lord I know you open the natural Heaven and that’s where it’s raining but now I command the spiritual raining to open and close the natural rain.”  And I said “And now I command the rain to stop” in those kind of words and Sid in that moment the rain when it was pouring in that moment the rain stopped and I heard thousands of people do this “Wow!”  And it was so normal to me because it was under the anointing; it was the gift of faith in that moment operating and actually Sid and I say “Well, stop now!”  And the moment and all the miracles started happening because people saw Jesus was alive; Jesus is alive.  So that moment I can tell you hundreds and hundreds of miracles happened because of the miracle of the rain.

Sid: And they saw that miracle and it continued raining in the invisible world and the rain was the rain was the reign of the Holy Spirit and hundreds of people all over the auditorium were instantly healed.  That’s what’s going to happen to you right now as I pray for you it’s a supernatural prayer. “The Lord is blessing you right now; the Lord is keeping you right now; Lord is smiling upon you right now; the Lord is gifting you right now; the Lord is surrounding you with His favor right now; the Lord is giving you His Shalom, His completeness in your spirit, in your soul and in your body right now in the Name that is above every problem Yeshua haMashiach tsidkanu; Jesus the Messiah our Righteousness.

Sid: Now you know me Mishpochah I’m a Jewish man that I’ve been a believer in the Messiah over 30 years and I don’t know what it is to be lukewarm. I can’t relate to someone lukewarm.  And besides that my Bible says that  Jesus will vomit me out of His mouth if I’m lukewarm. But I mean I’ve been red hot since I’ve known Jesus; I don’t understand I can’t relate to anyone that isn’t.  I know what’s on the over side why would anyone want to take a chance of having one foot in the world and one foot in the Lord.  I have on the telephone a gentleman I’ve heard of for many years and admired.  He was a nice pastor who obliged a friend and went to a Kathryn Kuhlman meeting and his whole life was turned upside down. Kathryn Kuhlman was a friend of mine; I had several private meetings with her; I did a couple of television shows with her.  And to be quite candid with you I am still even though she’s in Heaven I am still in awe of the wonderful miracles that I saw take place under her ministry.  I’ve got questions on healing you’ve got questions on healing. Now Bill Prankard has probably seen as many if not more miracles than anyone on planet earth right now.  And he’s just the person I want to talk to I have him on the telephone at his office in Ottawa, Ontario Canada.  Bill, for those and we’re mostly in the United States by way of radio, that are not that familiar with your ministry. I’ll say it you don’t have to say it; he has a ministry similar to Katherine Kuhlman.  Similar to Benny Hinn but many of you have not heard of him because his ministry has been predominately throughout Canada.  But Bill I want you to take me back to that very very wonderful bus ride you took from Canada to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  What was the purpose and how did that come about?

Bill: Well, you know Sid first of all it is delightful to be with you on the program today and I’ve been looking forward to this.  We love you’re television program comes up here in Canada and we watch it.  And we love the supernatural so we are knitted together. Well, you know going back it’s like 33 years this coming Spring and yet it’s as real to me now as it was as if it happened yesterday I mean my life got totally radically messed up forever.  And we didn’t know much about Kathryn Kuhlman all of my life growing up in church I felt if God is God we should be seeing something happen; we should be seeing miracles happen.  Never saw them, I got saved I came to Jesus when I was 18: I  got filled with the Spirit of God and got called to the ministry went to an Assembly Bible School up here ordained in the Assembly Pastor here in Canada.  And really felt you know that I knew it all had it all; if you said to me at that time Sid there’s more I would have been offended. I mean after all I mean I speak in tongues and you know I’ve got the diploma and I was pastoring.  You know I pray for the sick and hardly ever saw anybody healed; I preach for people to come to Christ and very seldom anybody comes.  I thought that that’s just the way it is.

Sid: If I wasn’t a believer based on a radical experience with God on what I see in the average good Christian church in America I would begin to doubt.

Bill: Well, you know what but when you live inside that little world you think it’s everybody else that has a problem and I used to preach regularly from our little Assembly Church about those out there who had a form of godliness and deny the power thereof.  And I would point my finger right out across the street to a large mainline church and I would feel so good that we had it all; we knew it all we were doing it all.  And the others so called Christian Church were missing it and you know I’ve found out that there were people going down to Kathryn Kuhlman Service from our area. We moved into this little church in Ottawa Valley in Ontario which is the eastern part of Canada in a little rural community. Every week at least one bus load full of people would travel 12 hours down to Pittsburgh to a Kathryn Kuhlman service.  That’s amazing story in itself a Presbyterian man up here was healed of cancer in Pittsburgh came back took a car load of people down; they were healed.  It just mushroomed and that became his ministry taking people and they invited me to go; they said “We always like to take a pastor with us would you come?”  And I said “I’d love to come” I’d heard a little bit about Kathryn I’d heard miracles were happening that intrigued me. But the problem I had was between the time I said I would go and the time that I actually went I talked to ministers; I talked to my superiors; I talked to other pastors and I said “Why do people have to go so far to see the power of God?”  I mean I could not understand this; there was something wrong with this picture.  And they quickly shut me down and said “They don’t, that these people have a problem they are just running after Kathryn Kuhlman and you need to be careful; you just stay away from these people and you need to be careful of Kathryn because you know they said there is a lot of things in her past that are questionable and we don’t know who she’s connected with.”  And what they did Sid they put seeds into my heart that I didn’t even realize but those seeds grew and with that growing came an attitude an attitude of critical spirit just you know critical of her even though I didn’t know her.  Or had never been in a meeting so I made up my mind I didn’t ever want to go. One night I got a  phone call from the organizer and they said “We really need you to come tomorrow” and I said “Well, I need more time than that.”  And the fact was I had nothing else to do; but you know I said “I need more time than that.”  And they said “Well, the pastor that was supposed to go was sick and we really need you and you committed to come” and I said “Well you must have other people you can call.”  And they said “We’ve called everybody else on the list and nobody can go.”  So in other words I was their last choice and I didn’t want to go and they didn’t want me to go.

Sid:  It sounds like with the most important thing to happen short of your salvation you got pushed into.

Bill: (Laughing) I was forced into this because you know I made up my mind okay I have to go I’ve made a commitment I’ll go I won’t like it; I’ll criticize it and I’ll come back and say “I’ve been there and I’ve done that.”  I went down on the bus 12 hours with these problem people; get down there and you know we’re tired and now they want to have a prayer meeting the night before the service.  And so we prayed and we had a little girl on our bus with her mother Greek Orthodox who had come from Ottawa, Canada and she’d never walked four years old.  The doctor said “She couldn’t ever walk the nerves muscles in her legs had never developed.  And so we prayed “God if you don’t do anything else in that service heal the little girl.”  And so we finished the prayer meeting and we’re off to bed and they said “Will be leaving for the service about 5:30 tomorrow morning.” And I said “How far is it?”  And they said “Two blocks.”  And I said “Why are we going so early and they said because if you don’t you won’t get in.” And at 6:00 in the morning; so there we are Sid in a cold March wet morning 6:00 waiting for the doors of the 1^st Presbyterian Church to open. 

Sid:  And you must have been saying “What am I doing here?

Bill:  You got that; you know anybody in their right mind is home in bed I don’t want to be here I’m with these troubled people; I’m tired I’m cold. So this wasn’t a faith mission at all.  And then they said… and the people seemed so happy to be there; they were singing you know and time went on and they said “When the doors open don’t be polite.”  And I said “What do you mean?”  They said “You won’t get in.”  Well when the doors opened I think about 8:00 in the morning you were pushed in.  I ended up sitting beside a lady that I’d never seen in my life and I thought “You know God I don’t want to be here and I don’t want to talk to anybody.”  And she started talking to me and here she is a Catholic lady from Canada who’d come all on her own; and I’m thinking you know “I was pressured to be here why would you come, I said “Why are you here?”  She said “Because I need a miracle.”  And I discovered since as you know that miracles draw the unbeliever; miracles draw the believer; miracles attract people.  And when people hear things are happening they come; they don’t care..

Sid: You don’t need a high powered advertising machine.

Bill:  No. 

Sid: All you need is a miracle

Bill: Exactly, they don’t care who’s leading the service, they don’t care where it’s at.  And so she’s said to me “I feel so good sitting beside you a Pentecostal Minister, because you know all about this.” Well…

Sid: If she only knew, Bill we’re just about out of time I want to talk a little bit about your book because I just read this myself; it’s called “Six Keys to Breakthrough in Healing.”  In your heart of hearts why did the Holy Spirit direct you to write this book?

Bill:  My wife and I started teaching these keys earlier this past year; last year actually. We saw such a breakthrough in people’s lives that we felt that we’ve got to get this out to people. They are keys that most people haven’t thought about connected with healing and in fact one of the keys about honor; honoring father and mother, is a key that changed my wife’s life. She got healed and several situations in her body because of that; so we printed this…

Sid: Let me tell you I got under such conviction when I read about running off with the mouth

Bill:  Yeah. (Laughing)

Sid: I don’t know whether you meant that or not but you nailed me big time

Bill: That’s a good one how to think about others in the body including other ministries and other ministers.  And so we published this last September and I couldn’t believe the response; we’re on our second printing now

Sid: I believe that there are reasons that people aren’t having the manifestation of their healing and I believe you have so nailed it after 30 years of walking in miracles as much if not more any person on earth.  These are the keys to the breakthrough in healing.

Bill:  That’s exactly why we did it because a lot of people are praying for people and they are not getting healed.  A lot of people are believing for healing and they’re not getting healed and these keys can help them breakthrough.

Sid:  I have a man that’s been in ministry 50 years and has been mentored by the people that I’ve read about and there was only one that I personally knew, Katherine Kuhlman.  Don Gossett there’s a generation that’s been raised up that all of these secrets there ministries of healing they’re just mysteries.  But you’ve out lined in your book called “The Power of Your Words.”  The most important things you’ve learned about healing in over 50 years in the healing ministry.  Being mentored but we’re talking a couple of days ago about a man that intrigues me greatly his name is William Branham.  Will you take me into a service and tell me the types of things that you saw with your very eyes in a William Branham service.

Don:  In March 1960 in Tulsa at the Municipal Auditorium William Branham ministered there for some days and weeks.  And back in those days the crusades always lasted extended period of time not just 2 or 3 days or continued on for a time.  William Branham as I was invited to be on his platform with him every night for the meeting every day.  It was a wonderful occasion and I could just close my eyes and remember vividly the great experiences that happened.  For instance one night he said on the seventh row in the fifth seat there’s a man and I want you to stand please.  And the man stood up and he said “I see you’re a minister.”  And he acknowledged he was and he said “Well, you’re an Assemblies of God pastor.”  And he said “Yes I am.”  He said “I see the whole scene my bother you were driving down a highway and you came to a 4 way stop.  You stopped your car and then you proceeded to move on but a car coming from the other direction did not stop at the 4 way stop crashed into your car.  Is that correct brother?”  And the man, the pastor began to break into emotion tears and joy and realizing that his life what happened 15 years before was suddenly being revealed very distinctly and accurately.  And then he explained further he said “The car after it crashed into you you were thrown out onto the highway” and he said “Is that correct brother?”  And he said “Yes it was.”  “And you were hospitalized and yet for the last 15 years you’ve suffered continual pain from where the cars crashed into you.”  And the man began to break up and began to weep profusely and William Branham spoke the healing word and said in Jesus Name your healed now by the Lord’s power, the pain leaves and you’re made whole.”  Well, the man tested to that fact and came back to give witness that a miracle had taken place. And this was the type of meeting that William Branham conducted service after service as the scriptures says that “God reveals to those Spirit Filled believer’s the secrets of men’s heart.  And William Branham was so humble and so very filled with love in my observation. I’ve frankly never seen a man that exude the love of Jesus Christ as this man did.  Now I say that with all due respect to my wonderful friends TL Osborn, and William Freeman, and Jack Coy, and Kathryn Kuhlman, but as I often said “He was a man that didn’t belong to this world.  He was a man that somehow been touched by God from a non-worldly standpoint that enabled him to be used by God profound utterances.  And…

Sid: Now to me that is a New Testament prophet and I wouldn’t want to settle for anything short of that. Let’s talk about someone I did see minister and I did get to know, Kathryn Kuhlman.

Don:   Again I want to emphasize the fact that I never on the staff of either William Branham or Kathryn Kuhlman. My association with them was other connections.  I was actually on the full-time staff with these other four people traveling with them, working with them and one way involved but in the world conference of the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem in the years 1974 and 75 I was the Canadian Coordinator for the World Conference of the Holy Spirit.  It simply means that I occasion to be in contact with leaders and those who ministered and Kathryn was the key speaker.  If anyone ever had an occasion to be close to Kathryn in those events before she would go into a service she would passionately pray “Holy Spirit can You trust me just one more time. Oh Holy Spirit can you trust me just one more time?” You could hear the desperate cry of her heart and think she hadn’t been used by the Holy Spirit.  But of course she had but Kathryn was also known at a time when she grieved and quenched the Holy Spirit.  In the book “Daughter of Destiny” by Jamie Buckingham he relates how Kathryn for a period of years had grieved the Holy Spirit and unfortunately while she certainly repented and changed that simple direction for her life by simply she knew what it was to not be led by the Holy Spirit by trusting the Holy Spirit.  But I think as one of the most fervent prayers I ever heard her pray effectively “Holy Spirit can you trust me just one more time.”  And I believe that any of us that want to be used by God if the Holy Spirit can trust us and we can lay aside or arrogance or self-seeking or whatever ambitions might be in our hearts to really be trusted by the Holy Spirit that He can use us as He used Kathryn.  And I thank God for the mighty manner which He flowed through her.  I can share so many events of my personal encounters briefly at a very brief time in my life where Kathryn Kuhlman and her ministry but the time would not permit on this program I’m sure.

Sid:  I’ll tell you what would be even more beneficial to our listeners you have learned keys to manifesting God’s healing you don’t need a super Kathryn Kuhlman miracle anointing you just need to understand the promises of God’s word and how to appropriate them. Would you teach a little?

Don:  Yes, well I have written a book with Dr. E.W. Kenyan called “The Power of Your Words.” Now I hold this book in my hands here in my office in Blaine, Washington because it’s like divine dynamite because I know how this truth put in the hearts and the mouths of the believers had been revolutionary.  The results have been just overwhelming.

Sid: And it’s not just physical healing although it is physical healing it’s any need that someone has.

Don:  That’s right when we agree to agree with God and disagree with the adversary we learn the speaking forth principal of how God works through the power of our words.  You know back here just a moment to alluding to William Branham; when he was with us in Tulsa he came off into the Osborn offices where I was Associate to PL Osborn.  And he was with us one day when he said “Mark 11:23” is the most unfulfilled and unused scripture in the Bible.  Jesus said ‘Whoever should say to this mountain be yea removed and be cast in the sea and shall not doubt in his heart that those things that you sayeth shall come to past he shall have whatsoever he saith.’”  I mean William Branham en-parted that to us with fire and conviction.  Well, that’s what “The Power of Your Words” is all about the fact that you speak to your mountains; you don’t pray to your mountains but you speak to them in Jesus Name He said “And to be removed.”  And thank God He said “They shall be done, for what you say is what you get.”  That’s a great truth, and that was my same relationship I had with TL Osborn; I became connected with this man that has been used of God all over the world in such awesome ways.  We discussed together this principal by the power of your words.  And he said “Don Gossett, understanding this principal marks you as a man 1 in a million.”  Well, I don’t know about that but any way he said “I want you to be my associate, I want you to preach my afternoon services, I want you to become a part of my staff and I did and it was a great experience.  Well this principal “The Power of Your Words” is what affected each of these people in a way in one way or in another.  Now I have it in this book form to be able to put it in the hands of your listeners Sid and I’m very persuaded that God will use it mightily to praise the God.

Sid: I want to get specific I’m one of these type of people Don. Let’s suppose there’s someone listening to us right now that’s got arthritis in their knees; what would you tell them to start doing.

Don:  Well, I would encourage them to speak the word only.  Jesus said in Matthew chapter 8 that when that Centurion said “Speak the word only and my servant will be healed.”  Jesus said “This is the greatest faith I’ve found I’ve found in all Israel.”  What was so great about it was the fact that he said “Speak the word.”  That speak the word only was the principal that Jesus honored and He exalted He said “This is the greatest faith of all that I’ve found in all Israel.”  And I would say speak the word not the negative problem speak the word not the defeat circumstances; speak the word not their sickness and their oppressions but let the word prevail.  I believe that the word that said He’d watch over his word to perform it; that no word that goes out of my mouth will return to me void will make that word good. That’s why I’m quite persuaded with all my heart that this principal that you’re offering with book will revolutionize and change people for the glory of God not just some little magic formulas but just speak the word amen.  That’s the power of that word itself.

Sid: Don tell us your never again list.

Don:  Never again will I confess I can’t for I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.  Never again shall I confess lack for my God shall supply all my need in riches in Glory by Christ Jesus.  Never again will I confess fear that for God has not given me the spirit of fear but a power and love and a sound mind.  Never again will I confess doubt and a lack of faith for God has given to every man the measure of faith.  Never again shall I confess weakness for the Lord is the strength of my life. And the people that know their God shall be strong and do exploits.  Never again will I confess the supremacy of Satan over my life for greater is He who’s in me than he who’s in the world.  Never again will I confess defeat because God always causes me to triumph in Christ Jesus.  Never again will I confess lack of wisdom for Christ Jesus has made unto me wisdom from God. Never again will I confess the domination of sickness over my life for with His stripes I am healed, and Jesus Himself took my infirmities and bared my sicknesses.

Sid: You have got a new identity; you have got a new spiritual DNA and if you can just grasp it and by faith walk into it you will achieve your destiny.  All of the old stuff is going to fall off of you and you can fulfill everything that God has in store for you.  Well my guest Dr. Francis Myles had revelation on how people can break these curses all the way back to Adam in your family.  And how you can open yourself up to his revelation teaching on the blessings of Abraham and he actually prays these curses away.  And he actually prays you to walk into the blessings.  Well, his name is Dr. Francis Myles and I asked him that well, he had such an experience… I wish I had had an experience… I had an experience but I tell you Francis you have provoked me to jealousy just that one encounter you had where you saw the authority of the Word over the demons; you saw the real you your spirit.  That alone catapulted you into another class; so miracles started happening, you rented a 1000 seat tent; you went all over Africa.  Tell, me the first major miracle, the most exciting one you saw.

Francis: Yes, one of the most exciting miracles I saw was I was doing a crusade in south Africa where they brought a woman who was known by everybody in the township because she lived in the gutter and she would eat from trash cans.

Sid: And so she really lived in the gutter, okay go ahead…

Francis:  Yes, and they brought her to the crusade and she would stink, I mean she was smelling man people didn’t want to sit next to her.  But there were two men really were with her one of the left side and one on the other side because she really couldn’t sit. She was always all over the place, finally at… and it was interesting at the meeting where we had a witch doctor; a woman witch doctor came into the crusade.  And when I was preaching she was saying… she was pointing and saying in Zulu she’d say “There are no miracles are going to happen today that she’s binding the crusade.”  And I told my interpreter “Just let her and hang on Jesus is not afraid of her and neither am I and there will be miracles today.”  So when the time to pray for the miracles came and they brought this woman that had been insane for over 20 years and was known by everybody being held by people.  And when I got close to her as soon as I looked at her the smell disappeared Sid and the liquid love that I experienced before came upon me and I loved this woman who had been so bound.  As I looked at her the Lord instantly gave me a vision and when I looked at her I saw a spirit surround, I looked into her body and I saw a spirit and I saw a spirit encased in what looked like a beehive of demons.  A beehive for many many demons around her like her spirit was squished in. And when I looked at that spirit that spirit actually spoke to me and said “Help me Francis.”  And I said “Woe!”  And then God said to me “Command demons to unwind!”  So before I knew it I screamed and I said “You unclean spirit unwind!”  And when I said “Unwind” it was like the angel of the Lord leaped into her spirit Sid and pulled one of the spirits and all of a sudden it was like a rope had been untied. The spirits had been connected one to another.  And I did a big pull like a rope unwinding and unwinding and like one strong rope of spirit and they came out.  When they came out the woman sunk back and instantly she was saying “What happened to me?”  And all of a sudden she realized that she wasn’t dressed properly and she was smelling and I mean the woman in the meeting began to give her proper, I mean it was incredible.  The witchdoctor ran out of the crusade; she was afraid and she ran out.

Sid: I mean in addition to miracles that are happening can you imagine an insane person being totally transformed.  She’s living in the gutters, she’s smells and she came to her senses and she realized what shape she was in.  But in addition to miracles that occur because you’re fulfilling your destiny.  It’s my prayer that everyone listening to us will fulfill their destiny that God has for them. But you hear some amazing prophesies; for instance in 2007 there was a young Senator by the name of Barack Obama and God gave you a prophetic dream. What did He show you?

Francis:  Yes, well during the democratic primaries when then Senator of New York Hillary Clinton was leading Barack Obama by 20 points in all the national polls it looked Hillary really was going to be the democratic choice for presidency I had a dream.   I had a dream and in the dream I dreamt was at the Democratic National Convention in Denver which was interesting because you know in my voting records I normally vote republican, but in the prophetic dream I’m at the Democratic National  Convention.  I’m invited in the dream I’m invited there as a guest of the Senator Barack Obama.  And in this prophetic dream Barack Obama is the one being nominated.  And he comes up on stage and in the dream I saw Oprah and other well-known Democrats on the platform.  Suddenly in the prophetic dream Presidential meeting Barack Obama walked to the podium to deliver an acceptance speech.  But then I noticed that he was speaking in a slur like a drunken man.  I said to myself “My goodness look can’t these people see that they have nominated a man who’s got a drinking problem?”  And that’s what it looked like to me in the dream and why is he coming as he’s drunk?  And suddenly in the middle of his speech he sobered up and he started speaking in tongues and I said “My goodness, my goodness he’s now speaking in tongues.”  And then I saw Oprah stand up very angry against him for speaking in tongues in public and she walked off the platform.  So when the convention was finally over I stood in line to greet the presidential nominee with his wife Michelle was passing by.  When the President got to me he hugged me and said “Man of God thank you for your book you autographed for me and so moved on.”  I woke up immediately and I said to the Lord “What is the meaning of this dream?”  And he said Barack Obama will beat Kerry and become President of the United States.  The reason you saw Oprah on the stage is because she is one of the faces, one of the most recognized faces of liberalism in America.  Obama is speaking and looking like he was drunk because he is going to rule as a man drunk on liberalism and bring the nation into great transition.

Sid: So in effect God told you before that he would win then what did God tell you?

Francis:  Then He said that the fact that you saw him begin to speak in tongues in the middle of that acceptance speech means that in the second term, in his second term I desire to fill him with My Spirit instead of the liberalism that has been intoxicated with.  And then He said “Listen to me this change will come at a great political cost for Obama because those that really embraced him for his liberal stand who reject him when he begins to turn to the faith.

Sid: So what you’re telling me is you knew Number 1 That he would defeat Hillary Clinton and win the first term.  Number 2 You were told he would win a second term.  Number 3 You were told he would accomplish a very liberal agenda in his first term.  And 4 You were told that… now is this going to happen or do we need to pray it to happen that he become sold out to the Lord in his second term?

Francis: We need to pray because the Lord told me there was a seed for viable faith in Christ that has never been nurtured.  He said if nurtured his seed of faith in his heart could become his deliverance replacing the drunkenness of liberalism.

Sid: I’ll tell you what the Spirit of God is coming all over me as you’re saying this I need you to pray a one minute prayer and I want everyone listening to us right now to agree that the seed of faith that is in President Obama would mature and mature quickly. Pray that please.

Francis: Yeah, Heavenly Father we pray in Messiah’s Name that who is the Lord of Lords and the King of kings that Father that he’s the one that taught me that our President would become president way before anyone could have become a president or even a nominee.  And now we pray Father that as he’s in his second term that God we pray that as the Body of Christ the reign of the Holy Spirit will nurture the seed of Christ that’s in him that’s never been nurtured to come alive and he’ll find himself having a more authentic radical faith in Christ Jesus and he will not be afraid to pay the price for in Yeshua’s Name we pray amen.

Sid: Amen.  Well, I’ll tell you what God has also shown you what the Muslim agenda is for Europe, what the Islamic agenda is for the United States.  Perhaps we can speak about that on tomorrow’s broadcast.  Your vision for what you call the golden years of Melchizedek and the Jewish revival.  But tell me in just two sentences what someone that reads your book “Breaking Generational Curses” gets the two CD’s “The Blessings of Abraham.”  Where you actually pray to break the curses, what will happen in their life?”

Francis:  Miracles, every time this happens there are creative miracles, most of the miracles the Lord told me will happen within 24 hours.  And that’s what we have seen the miraculous normally within 24 hours there is visible evidences that there has been a supernatural turnaround.

Sid: And you know what I love I love your terminology every born again Christian needs genetic salvation.  What does that mean?

Francis:  Genetic salvation is when the finished work of the cross is applied to the healing of our genetics so that we’re delivered from the first Adam and transferred to the genetics of the last Adam.

Sid: So what would happen to someone that a doctor has said “Well, based on your parents and based on your siblings you’re going to have heart problems, you’re going to have diabetes.  What would you say to that person that the doctors just told them that?

Francis:  Well, based on those who were told something that before that have not been healed that…

Sid: Whoops we’re out of time.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest received an impartation from God and keys from God so that he could do the same works that Jesus did and even greater. But what’s even greater than that, when he speaks, this impartation goes to those who are listening. You interested? Sid Roth here with David Martin. I’ll tell you David, as someone who studies the supernatural for 14 years, thinks they really know something and then in 1993, you had a vision. Tell me about it.

DAVID: I did. Sid, it was one of the two most significant visions in my life. And literally, I saw a picture of a man going through the barrier, and it was a thin barrier, almost like paper. But as the man went through the barrier, I knew it wasn’t me, but it represents all believers. God said to me, you’re on the threshold of a spiritual breakthrough coming into a move of my spirit unlike anything the world has ever seen, more signs, more wonders, more miracles than you can even imagine. I got a big imagination. But, wow, God, that’s awesome. And I said, “That’s great.” God said, “But I can’t use you yet.”

SID: How would you like God to tell you that, “I can’t use you yet.” And then two weeks later, God spoke to you again.

DAVID: He did. I was sharing the vision about spiritual breakthrough with the congregation, and as soon as I said to the congregation, I said, “The spiritual barrier is about to be broken,” God said, “That’s not what I said.” He said, “The barrier is not spiritual. He said, “You’re on the threshold of a spiritual breakthrough, but a spiritual barrier is already broken. The veil is rent. You got free access to my throne.” He said, “The spiritual barrier, the spiritual breakthrough, the barrier is intellectual.” He said, “The problem is you’re thinking too much like people, not enough like me.”

SID: And that’s where the Bible talks about renewing your mind. But these keys that God revealed to you, let’s take the first one, sensitivity.

DAVID: Well sensitivity, there are so many stories. But one that kind of leads up to that is the story of literally two weeks after God gave me the vision about the spiritual breakthrough, I was in this church and He said to me, “You’re thinking too much like people.” And as I thought about that, I realized that there’s a higher dimension and a higher realm. And then in 1998, literally God gave me, as I got up to minister in church, keys to the operating in the supernatural. Then I really discovered how it works. A few months later, I was in Rwanda doing a pastors conference with 250 pastors, all of which were involved from a negative side. They had loved ones that were massacred in the genocide in Rwanda in 1994, and God said, “Go there for a week. Minister to them,” and very emphatically, “Do not cover the gifts of the spirit, the operation of the Holy Spirit” because all these guys were not spirit-filled. But the very last meeting God said to me right in the middle of a sentence after a whole week of speaking about love and the things of God, right in the middle of a sentence, God said, “Stop.” Sid, it had to the longest moment of my life. It probably wasn’t more than a minute. But when you have 500 eyeballs looking at you and interpreter comes up and says, “What’s the problem here?” that minute is a long time. But right in the middle of that moment the Holy Spirit fell onto these 250 pastors. They all got baptized with the Holy Ghost. They started speaking in tongues.

SID: Were you talking about that?

DAVID: Not at all.

SID: So it was almost like a Pentecost experience.

DAVID: Absolutely, I mean, we didn’t go there at all, because that’s what God said to do. But it was the sensitivity to the leading of the Spirit to stop. And of course, in the keys that God has given me, key number one is sensitivity. Number two would be obedience to do whatever He says. And when you study miracles, I think it’s really important to realize that the law of first occurrence or first appearance of something. The first miracle that Jesus did was turning the water to wine. And Mary said to the servants, “Whatever he says, do it.” So sensitivity is being sensitive to the voice of God.

SID: And from that trip, you went immediately to the birthplace of the Shining One Revival. What was that revival?

DAVID: Well in the ’30s, a great revival hit on northern Rwanda, and that’s where God sent me to, and this outpouring of the Spirit, these pastors, they literally glorified God for three hours. And of course, when they started speaking in tongues I didn’t know it was tongues because it was [unintelligible].

SID: Of course [unintelligible].

DAVID: And my interpreter says, “This is not tongues.” But anyway, in that three-hour timeframe, God said, “Go to his birthplace” [with me] never knowing it was the birthplace of the Shining One Revival that started in the ’30s.

SID: And again, that’s the sensitivity.

DAVID: Exactly, and the obedience that followed with it. But in going there, the next day we went to the chapel where this revival broke out that literally spread all through east central Africa. As a matter of fact, if you look it up on the internet it’s called the East African Revival. But people that were touched by the Shining One Movement, they lived a long time, they had a year to God, very prophetic. As a matter of fact, many of the people live well over a hundred years of age.

SID: You know, when David received impartation of the Shining One Impartation, he told me that he just wept for over a half hour and was totally transformed. And now when he teaches about these supernatural keys there’s an impartation of the Shining One anointing. We’ll talk about it when we come back.