Sid Roth

Sid: There is a key, a prayer if you will, that will release blessings in your life beyond anything you ever thought. I have on the telephone from Lancaster, England Peter Horrobin. Peter I have to believe that this is one of the major keys to physical healing; one of the major keys for removing obstacles and barriers between someone and God this most powerful prayer which is a prayer of forgiveness. But we were talking on yesterday’s broadcast about a most important area and that is what about someone that is in an ongoing situation where they’re being verbally abused. How in the world? I mean yes they have to keep forgiving but enough is enough.  If you would talk a little bit about this from what you said yesterday and then continue the thought.

Peter:  Well, I really feel sorry for people that are in that situation it’s not just sorrow it’s actually a huge amount of compassion because it’s not an uncommon problem.  There’s false teaching I believe in the church which says that you just got to keep on forgiving and being a doormat for everybody else.  I believe that they’re actually comes a time when one has to rise up in righteous anger; the scripture says “Be angry and sin not” and to actually put up a barrier and say “I forgive you for what you’re doing but I’m not going to allow you to do it anymore.” And sometimes there are consequences of that and of those decisions but it takes that sort of godly resistance to actually bring people to a place of realizing what they’re doing.  This often happens inside families where you’ve got maybe a mother, or a mother-in-law, or a brother-in-law, husband and wife, or children and they’ve just taken advantage of people and speak out horrible things day in and day out and they crush people’s spirits.  When our spirits are crushed we are really broken on the inside.  Now there is a huge amount of healing that God wants to do for the crushed spirit but to forgive and to keep on forgiving is the entry point to that.  I don’t think I can go into individual situations.

Sid: You know in your book, I just happen to have a phrase that jumped out at me you said “Even if we forgive someone it doesn’t mean that we trust them; trust has to be earned.”

Peter: Absolutely, forgiveness and trust they’re not the same thing; let me tell you a tragic but not an uncommon story that in a local church where a Sunday School Teacher was found abusing one of the little girls in the Sunday School.  And he was brought to the Minister of the Church with the parents and they forgave him and they had misunderstood this whole issue.  They felt that because they’d forgiven they had to actually give this man his job back.

Sid: Hmm.

Peter:  So they forgave him, put him back in the Sunday School and he abused more children.  You see forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. Forgiveness it deals with our heart; today I actually have to deal with our own heart and you can’t trust somebody who’s not trustworthy.  Jesus Himself didn’t trust himself to people; He was very careful in John 2 verse 24 & 25 it says “He knew what was in people’s hearts therefore he didn’t trust Himself to them.”  He’s very forgiving but there’s a huge difference between forgiving and trusting yourself to people.  And so we need to separate that out and not to let people feel that they have to trust people whom they have forgiven. Somebody might earn that trust and become trustworthy, but it’s not necessarily the case. In Jeremiah 12 verse 6 it says “Your brothers, your own family even they have betrayed you; they’ve raised a loud cry against you do not trust them even though they may even speak well of you.”  See scriptures are very helpful isn’t it in this respect.

Sid: Yes Peter I have to think the biggy for a lot of people involves parents; tell me a little bit about forgiving parents.

Peter: I’ll tell you a story, Karen stood in one of my healing services and she was asking for prayer.  She had a kidney problem and the doctors have said “You got a viral condition on both kidneys and there is nothing we can do for you.”  And they actually said “You have less than 12 months to live.  When she stood before me asking for prayer I was saying “God I don’t know what to pray here I have a heart full of compassion but what do I pray?”  And God spoke it right into my spirit and said “Ask her about her mother?”  And so I asked Karen about her mother and she said “I don’t know anything about my mother.” She was “16 she got pregnant and I was given away for adoption.”  And I spoke to her and I just said “Do you realize that before you were conceived in sexual sin?”  And she laughed and said “I never thought about it that way before.”  But she said “Yeah, that’s true and I said “Have you ever forgiven your parents for sexual sin?”  She said “No, I never even thought about it.”  And I said “Have you ever thanked God that you weren’t aborted?”  She said “No.”  So I want you to do these two things and she did; she spoke out from her heart thanking God for her life and forgave her mother and her father for their sexual sin. As she prayed that prayer something happened on the inside she felt something break in her tummy where she was joined to her mom and as I prayed there was a spirit of cursing that was upon her because the sexual sin of a parents the spirit of infirmity began to leave her and she was delivered of that spirit.  Actually that wasn’t the healing, the healing followed immediately afterward like with the woman in Luke 13 when Jesus delivered her of the spirit of infirmity, then He laid His hands on her that she may be physically healed.  And I asked another lady member of our team to lay hands on Karen’s kidneys and she prayed there in tongues for 20 minutes asking God to just bring healing.  And 20 minutes later all the swelling and the kidney’s had gone down, Karen was able to bend over and to touch her toes which she could never had done before for the  pain was so great.  She wrote to me 6 weeks later and she said “She’d been back to the hospital, the doctors had said they could find no evidence of the viral condition and to forget what they said last time; they told her “You’re okay there’s nothing wrong.”  Now the healing was released in her when she forgave her parents for what they had done.

Sid: What about people that their parents have a particular disease and they have the same let’s take something that’s quite common in our culture arthritis.

Peter:  Oh yeah, yeah.

Sid: Give me an example.

Peter:  Well, arthritis is something that even the medic’s say that there are certain percentage of the people that have arthritis who themselves are bitter. So people who are not the nicest and the most pleasant of characters let’s put it this way.

Sid: Now that’s not true for all.

Peter:  It’s not true for all

Sid: Yes.

Peter: Though there are some who are like that and there is a relinking of the attitude of the heart and the physical condition.  Now there are other forms of arthritis that actually seem to come down the generational line.  One generation after another after another has a similar sort of problem.  There was a lady who asked me for prayer and she had 3 years of degenerative arthritic condition.  Her gifting before God was to actually dance and she used to…

Sid: Well, you can see why the devil wanted that curse passed on.

Peter: Well, she wanted to worship the Lord in dance and she couldn’t because of the arthritis. And I said to her “How long have you had this?  And she said 3 years.  I said “Did your mother have something like this?”  And she said “Yes, my mother was crippled with arthritis.  And I said “How long did your mother die?  She said “Three years ago.”  It was a direct correlation.

Sid: Hmm.

Peter: Acts Chapter 20 and verse 5 says “The sins of the fathers visit on the children to the third and the fourth generation.  And this is a reality that we see sometimes in our working and what has happened in one generation after another and we can break that.  In the Name of Jesus we can ask God to just cut that generation line; and that’s what they did she forgave her ancestors for everything they have done, whatever it was.

Sid: In other words you can forgive even though you don’t know what the specific sin they committed was.

Peter: Nehemiah prays a very interesting prayer, he confessed that “I and my ancestors we have sinned.”  It’s not a case of forgiving for something specific but it’s a confession… the word confess actually means “I agree with.”  I agree that my ancestors have sinned and done ungodly things and I forgive them and I release them into the freedom of my forgiveness. And then we can pray “God will you now cut that chain with Your authority you’ve given us in Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit Lord will you cut that chain.”  And there’s many, many people who have got things that have come down the generation line and they need to just say “God my ancestors have sinned, I agree with that.”

Sid: Now this lady who had arthritis just out of curiosity did you see her dance?

Peter:  Oh, I did twenty minutes later she was up at the front of our meeting hall and she was dancing and she was worshiping the Lord because the arthritis had been healed.

Sid: That fast!

Peter:  That fast, in her case that fast; but sometimes it’s not that fast but in her case that’s exactly what happened.

Sid: So what do you recommend someone does that they have forgiven someone because they know they’re required to by the Bible but there’s a bit deception and every time that person name comes up there is a bad feeling inside.

Peter:  It’s not necessarily a bit of deception, see there are layers of pain and just like an onion has many layers and we can have layers of pain.  And we can forgive; you see the first act of forgiveness is…..

Sid:  So would you call it a process?

Peter: I’d say there’s definitely a process without a doubt because it begins with a choice and let me say this it’s not just a choice because the Bible tells us to.  Because the Bible can tell you lots of things and you do them with a bad heart and doesn’t do a slightest bit of difference.  We’ve actually got to come to the point that actually in my heart I choose to forgive.  I thank God that He chooses to want to forgive me. The story of the prodigal son for example where the father’s arms are wide open, and we actually go to get to that point and saying “God actually I want to forgive.”  And it’s not just because I’m being told to do it; because I want to do it and at that point we can actually begin our process.  And the process can take quite a while because I have a picture that I use to help people understand here.  If you have a bucket of sand and you have a teaspoon and you take out a teaspoonful of sand it doesn’t look as though there is much gone out of the bucket. But you keep on taking a teaspoon out of the bucket and gradually the level of the sand goes down. And you get to the end where there is actually no more sand in the bucket and there is no more pain.  And we need to keep on forgiving until the pain is gone.

Sid: Peter, we’re out of time.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I love the rarified air of Heaven. You know what identity theft is. But I want to tell you about the original identity theft. As a matter of fact, this person was put in the witness protection program against his will for 2000 years. His name, Yeshua in Hebrew, Jesus in English, and my guess says, it’s time to bring Jesus, the one called the King of the Jews, out of the witness protection program. So you’re a young college student. You’re into drugs. Your major purpose is fun. You’re Jewish identity, but not too religious, and your best friend becomes a Jesus freak. Ron, how did that affect you, your friendship?

RON: It about ruined my friendship when my best friend Brian came to me and told me that he now is a born again believer in Jesus.

SID: Now the word “born again”, it meant what to you?

RON: It meant freak. It meant crazy. It meant religious nut. And there was a dramatic change in his life. He began to share the Good News with me. And I said, “Brian, I’m Jewish and if there’s one thing I know about being Jewish, we don’t believe in Jesus, or at least that’s what I was taught.” Well Brian was very persistent, and one day he told me, I actually asked him, I said, “Brian, are you actually telling me that if I’m not born again like you,” I didn’t even know what that meant, Sid.

SID: I know you didn’t. You know how I know you didn’t know? I’m Jewish, too.

RON: So I said, “Are you saying I have to be born again to go into Heaven?” I didn’t believe in Heaven. I didn’t believe, I thought maybe there’s a God. But I certainly didn’t know him. And Brian looked at me and he said, “Ron, yes, you must be born again.” And when he said that I knew it was the truth. I don’t know how I knew it was the truth, but it scared me half to death. And I said, “Brian,” I said, “There is nothing in the Bible about being born again.” Which is really funny, because I had never read, not only the New Testament, I never read the Old Testament. And I said, “There’s nothing in the Bible about being born again.” He opens up the New Covenant to John, Chapter 3 where Yeshua says, “Except a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” And it was like swords coming out of Heaven. I was just, I didn’t know what to do.

SID: But he wanted to be right with God, if there is a God. And so he didn’t know what to do. So he’s in college and one day another friend who’s a Christian takes him to a Christian movie. What happened?

RON: Well this fellow Dean found out that I was a believer. We had a conversation a few days before about Yeshua, about Jesus, and as we’re talking, I suddenly felt the presence of God. I didn’t know what it was. I had never felt it, but there was just an incredible supernatural peace. Well he says, “Ron, I want to take you to a movie about Jesus.” Two days later, we went to the movie in Durham, North Carolina, and at the end of the movie, we’re both crying. I mean, it was a, as far as movies go, I’m all for a movie, but it was a movie. I wasn’t going to become born again because of a movie. We get in the car, we’re driving home and nobody is talking. And we get about a half hour back, it’s an hour drive. We’re a half hour back to school. And I said, “God, I have to know the truth. Is Jesus the Messiah or do I need to become an orthodox Jew or a Buddhist? Just show me how to serve you and I’ll do it.” And the next thing I remember is Dean loses control of the car. It begins to swerve from side to side, flips over upside down in a ditch.

SID: My goodness. Was it totaled?

RON: The car was totaled?

SID: Were you totaled?

RON: Not a scratch on either one of us. And that was my first prayer. That’s when I realized that prayer is power. And we got out of the car, we went to, there was only one house within miles. We knock on the door. And lo and behold, two wonderful believers in Yeshua, Jesus, answer the door, and next thing you know I’m sitting in their living room and I’m asking them about Yeshua. I said, “If Jesus was the Messiah, why didn’t he get off the cross and just prove it to everyone?” And you see, all I knew up until that point is that I needed to be born again, but I didn’t know why. They explained to me about sin, that I was a sinner, that Yeshua came to die for me, that he could have easily gotten off the cross, but he chose to die as a sacrifice for me, and that through faith in him I could have eternal life. Well I didn’t understand anything with their blood, sacrifice, lambs, except for the fact that the power and presence of God was falling on top of me. And when I say, Sid—

SID: Wait a second. You told me that you were into drugs in college. So weren’t you on a drug trip that was like that?

RON: That was my first thought. I said, did I take anything today, and I hadn’t. And I wasn’t a drug addict. I was a drug user. And but this power was, there are no words in English. At the time, I thought this is a force field of electricity coming off of me about a foot in every direction. And I finally stopped and I said, “What is this?” And she said, “What is what?” And I said, “What is this power I’m feeling?” And I believed. I was born again. I walked out of that house a new creature, went back to school. Everyone wanted to know about the car accident. I said, “No, I have to tell you about Jesus.”

SID: You mean, immediately you started talking about Jesus.

RON: Well that’s what Brian had been doing for the eight months previous. That’s all I saw him do. That was my example.

SID: Okay. Now as a Jewish man, I don’t quite get this. He says that Jesus went into a witness protection program and he has just come out, and he wants to tell you who the true Jesus is. We’ll be right back.

Sid: Question, “If someone squeezed you what would come out?”  Answer, “Not a whole lot different then if someone were to squeeze someone that did not know the Messiah.” Problem, “How do you solve it?”  I have an individual that I’ve just gotten to know on the telephone and I am so excited about this interview.  That by faith we’ve decided to do 2 weeks; his name is Leif Hetland and Leif was born in Norway from a 4^th generation Pentecostal family. He went astray as so many young people today are doing it.  But he had an encounter with the Messiah that revolutionized his life and he decided he would serve God.  But he quickly as a Pastor went into burned out works mentality. He didn’t know anything better so he kept doing it.  But then he found that there was something better.  Then he found that there was something more and then his whole ministry was transformed.  And I’m believing as you listen to us this week your whole life will be transformed.  Aren’t you crying, aren’t you praying to God that there must be something more? Aren’t you saying to God ‘I’m desperate for greater intimacy with you.” Yet there seems to be something that is blocking what you know should be yours but you don’t have it yet.  I believe that you ease drop in our conversation that there’s going to be light-bulb that will go on that will forever change your destiny.  Leif,I had a very unfortunate thing happen to me a couple of days ago.  I got  together with a friend of mine is a Biblical counselor and he said “Sid, would you please pray for me because I’m meeting with one of the worse situations; a little fourteen year old girl; she had never been sexually active and one day she had an argument with her parents and she went out in a huff and got together with a male friend and had one beer.”  And he said “You know you really, and she had never had beer in her life.

Leif: Hm.

Sid:  And she came from a good Christian family and then her friend said “You know,” and they were at a party with a few other people, “You really need to unwind would you have another beer.”  And she did; she had the second beer and then before she knew it they slipped a drug on her called ecstasy and before she knew it she was getting intimate with all of the male guests at that party.

Leif: Wow.

Sid: And she was going to now meet with this Biblical counselor; what a sad tragedy!  And he said something to me which I would like you to pick up on.  He said when he first spoke with her he said “Where do you think you made your mistake?”  And she said “When I had my first beer.”

Leif:  Hm.

Sid: And he said “No, you made your first mistake when you got angry with your parents.”  I’d like to know what’s going on inside of you with that story.

Leif:  Well, I can identify with that story because it was very similar to my own life and my own story because of anger towards parents and eventually towards church and also related towards anger towards God.  And I spent about 5 years with scars as a consequence of some of my action that I did as a result of it.  But I do believe that so many young people that are looking for security; they’re looking for love, value; they’re looking for affirmation they’re looking for purpose and destiny.  And suddenly as a thing in the middle of that when something is being devastated many times when they don’t know what to do they don’t know where to go.  First of all I want to encourage some of the parents as a reminder of Luke 15 where you have a perfect father and still one of them  chose rebellion and the other one chose religion despite of the parents have lived right and perfect.  The other encouragement I want to say even to this young lady and this young girl like it is my life and  I hope that no body needs to experience what she had experienced.  And then at the same time Sid I have seen again and again where the Father Himself places His robe of righteousness.  And I have sit there actually who had ended up actually with prostitution and has stood before an altar with white dress feeling like virgin again.  And that means that through Messiah, through Jesus an encounter of the robe of righteousness being placed upon them that they have been bathed by the Father and in the Father’s love.  And He went back and He visited that incidents and all the different things that took place that the Father just erased and when they’re looking back they’re not looking at their history but their destiny.  So I think that even like a Rehab she was not treated on behalf of her history but her destiny.  And I just want to encourage both the parents that even if they’ve been perfect parents you can still end up with a prodigal son and a brother.  And for this precious little girl what men had meant for evil God still can use this for good and she could be a tool that God can use if she just allowed healing love of God to move in and to visit that episode and to be able to through the precious blood of Jesus like we believe in physical healing do an emotional healing.  And I have 100’s and 100’s of stories just from the last couple of weeks not of the same incidents but  similar incidents where people again have been restored back again just before the fall came in.  So I am sadden in behalf of her and her family and at the same time period I do believe as I’m saying that so many times I’ve seen that tragedy has become a triumph.  And instead of whining we can be shinning; instead of being bitter we can become better.  And that’s what I and I pray that the rest of the believing audience will do; we will stand in the gap and we’ll pray that for this for this 14 year old girl and the family.  And that this little girl can be another person that would fit into the Hebrew hall of faith, I will call it a hall of grace.  And humility releases God’s ability, so when she has broken down she’s been humbled I just ask now that we would have the same view towards this girl as we see the Heavenly Father did in Luke 15 towards a prodigal son because maybe of his anger and hurt he wasted his inheritance.  And let us just also keep that heart and that love.  And I do believe that that perfect love can come in and it can bring healing to the wounded heart and the wounded spirit and one day that she can stand before a husband even back in the memory bank knows what happened she can still feel like a virgin because of the precious blood of Jesus covers over all of the mistakes that she has done.

Sid: Leif I want to take you back to 1995 and an individual I’ve interviewed several times crossed paths with you; his name is Randy Clark.  Tell me what he prophesied.

Leif:  Well, I was in a pastors conference in Halgason, Norway. I was the Senior Pastor of  Psalmist Baptist Church.  And in the middle of the meeting like everybody else I had a lot of orphan spirit and orphan thinking; I can be honest I went there I want to get something so I can have a growing congregation of gifts of the Spirit.  I was there to evaluate God in   what He was going to do for me.  But when Randy came up to me and he prophesied he spoke and he saw a picture of me being a bulldozer and he said, “You are going to go into nations and territories where the gospel has never been before and I’m seeing like the Amazon jungle a bulldozer and I’m seeing it’s knocking down all of those trees but I’m seeing there is a mass amount of people that is following after you.”  And then he used the word apostle.  As a Baptist I was just thinking well, missionary but I didn’t understand what that meant.  But right after that I had a major injury where I ended up with almost nine months out and in of hospital and almost most lost my sanity; so it’s very strange that there’s a battle that you have to fight after the battle you won.  There God is making me pregnant-ed  with His purpose and His reason but I didn’t have ears to hear what that meant.  But for nine months I laid in hospital bed with a destroyed neck and back.  And all I could do was to look up and during that time period the Father started to beat His beat in my heart in regard to the 35,000 people who died today who lived their whole entire life on this earth and they never heard the name of Jesus and it just changed my life.

Sid: In your wildest imagination Leif, in your wildest imagination did you ever think you would win a half a million Muslims to the Lord?

Leif:  Definitely no and still sometimes I feel intimidated when I’m hearing about me winning because I do know so clearly everything is God’s grace.  And it’s such a team effort and there’s other people that definitely needs to get the honor and the glory for that.  I was thinking about one Pakistani missionary who said “I spent 25 years praying and preparing the ground and eventually was kicked out of the country.  And I saw two believers in those 25 years.  He is a professor of one of the most famous seminary actually the head of the Messiology Department with a PhD.  And then for us to be able to be coming into place such a seed to 10s and 10s of thousands of people in every single meeting.

Sid: I was watching a video in Pakistan and seeing blind eyes open and people…children that have never spoken before, never heard before.  And I believe Mishpochah that God has lead Leif to an understanding of the Father’s love that the Father God has for Leif.  And the Father has so much love He has as much love for you as He has for Leif and I believe as much destiny as for you as He has for Leif.

Sid:  My guest is Pastor Robert Gay; Robert has been given a revelation of the next level in reference to grace taking the Ten Commandments and pushing us into that higher level. Robert many people who disregard unfortunately the only Bible the first church had; the Old Testament.  Say we’re not even interested  in fact you told me something that you heard on TV about the Ten Commandments; what was that.

Robert: Well, I heard somebody ministering the other day and he actually came out and said that any pastor or preacher that teaches the Ten Commandments to their congregation that they were killing their congregation.  And of course my thought to that was “Well, Jesus didn’t get that memo.  And obviously Paul didn’t get that memo and either did James because both Jesus, Paul, and James articulated if not all of the Ten Commandments most of them.   Of course between all three of them all of them were re-articulated in some manner or form.  And Jesus actually takes the commandments into what we call a higher level.  The next  level so a grace you know because we are now saved through grace it doesn’t mean that the bar has been lowered; it actually means that the standard has been raised. And so I think that it’s very important that we a New Testament believers realize that the Old Testament again as you even pointed out was the only Bible the early church had.  That’s the Bible that Paul preached out of; that’s the Bible that all of the apostles preached out of.  We don’t have an Old Testament God and a New Testament God He’s the same yesterday, today and forever.

Sid:  Now give and example of how it was brought to a new level; but your teaching is so good on each one of the Commandments.  Pick one of the Commandments and explain.

Robert: Well, we see how that Jesus actually takes the Commandments and takes it to what I call the next level; a higher lever; a higher dimension. For instance the one concerning murder we’ll use that one.  He said “You’ve heard that it’s said don’t murder, but I’m telling you don’t even be angry without a cause.  And then whenever you read on what Jesus actually actually begins to tell everybody is to you either need to agree and get over your issue.  Now as a matter of fact I have a chapter within my book called “Get over it.”  That actually has to do with the command of that “You shall not murder.”  In other words what Jesus was actually teaching is “You’ve got to deal with the root of murder; if you deal with anger murder won’t be an issue.  If you deal with unforgiveness murder will not be an issue with anybody’s life. As a matter of fact it actually John later on, the Apostle John when in his writings it actually talks about how that if you hate your brother it’s the same as murder.  Well, why would somebody hate somebody; it’s because of some type of issue of anger, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy.  All of these things that actually leads somebody to the sin of murder.

Sid: Well, even the say adultery the roots are similar.

Robert:  Well, exactly and really the commandment even concerning adultery; Jesus takes to the next level. Jesus says “You’re heard not to commit adultery but I’m telling you not to even look in that direction; whoever looks on a woman to lust after her actually commits adultery in his heart.”  So what Jesus addresses there is the root of the problem, the root of the issue; the root of the sin; and of course the root is lust in the heart of man. Well, thank God Jesus took care of that; we are now new creations in Christ Jesus so now we’re enabled to fulfill that Commandment.  So really even the Commandment of adultery has to do really with the necessity of commitment and covenant; and staying in covenant, walking in covenant; keeping your commitment and that’s what even that Commandment is about.

Sid:  Robert explain the first Commandment, most believers don’t understand it from a New Covenant understanding; explain.

Robert:  Well, of course in the original Ten Commandments the First Commandment was to have no other gods before Me.  And if you actually take that and place that in the affirmative what really means is this “Put God first, make Him a priority of your life.”  And we see Jesus even re articulating that Commandment when He said “Seek yea first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.  You know there’s something that takes place whenever we make God the priority of our life; when we make Jesus the priority of our life things begin to fall into place.  I think that it’s so interesting whenever Jesus even begins to talk  about this Commandment and the principals concerning this Commandment. How that He actually says don’t seek after food, and clothing and raiment and all these things. And then He says this for after these things the Gentiles seek.  What Jesus meant when He said the Gentiles is He was saying was those who are outside of Covenant.  This is the way that people who are living outside of a Covenant operate.  They’re always concerned about what am I going to have to eat, what am I going to have to wear.  Where am I going to live; all these natural things but then He says, “But if you’ll seek first the Kingdom of God.”  In other words “If you make God the priority of your life, if you make Him the focus of your attention then all of these things are going to be added unto you.  Which leaves me to say this, the purpose for the very first commandment is so that God can bring blessing into our life.  You have to understand that God in bringing forth the Ten Commandments was not trying to cramp our style and trying to make life difficult for us.  He was saying “If you will do these things, you are going to see an outpouring of My blessing the same way Jesus said “If you seek first the Kingdom of God all of these things are going to be added.”  He didn’t say “They’re going to be taken away from you.”  He said “You are going to be blessed; you are going to have everything that you needed plus, you are going to be overwhelmed by the very blessing of God.

Sid: What about the time that Jesus said to people “I never knew you.” Explain that scripture.

Robert:  Right, well it’s very interesting that Jesus said “Many will come to me in that day.”  And I think that it’s very interesting that He used the word “Many.”  But He said “Many will come to me in that day and say “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name; have we not cast out devils in Your Name?”  Have we not healed the sick in Your Name; have we not done all of these wonderful, glorious things.  And which we are even commanded to do and even exhorted to do as believers.  And we can do as believers because of the supernatural power of God.  But then this is what Jesus says; He says “Then I’ll look  at them and say “Depart from me you who practice lawlessness.” So it’s very interesting from this particular account that Jesus begins to declare and begins to teach on. He sayings “You know you called Me Lord, you prophesied, you did all these things however there’s something missing in your life.” And that is this “You practiced lawlessness.”  And lawlessness is basically is living void of law; living without any law.  And again law for many Christians law is almost like a cuss word it’s a bad word for so many people.

Sid: All of us have heard the praise “We’re no longer under the law.”  What does that mean to you?

Robert: Well, of course I do agree to a certain degree, there are certain aspects of law that we are  no longer under.  I mean I’m glad that I can go to church and I don’t have to bring some type of sacrifice; I can bring the sacrifice of praise.  Blood sacrifices, these types of sacrifices, these types of things that were involved in Levitical law are no longer applicable to us and Jesus took care of that at the cross.  However, everyone of the Ten Commandments are rearticulated in the New Testament.  And so to say that we are in some way no longer under that again as I have already spoken about that some we actually have the Law of God written on our hearts now.  So if anything we are actually tied to moral law to a greater degree now as those under the New Covenant than even  those that lived under the New Covenant.

Sid: Give me an example of somebody in your church that grabbed hold of your teaching and what happened to them.

Robert: We had one gentleman; he was actually a used car salesman and he was you stereo-typical used car salesman and he would try to make a buck off everything. He really lived his life as a taker.  We began to teach this about learning to live your life as a giver because that is what the commandment of “Do not steal, actually the heart of the commandment is to live your life as a giver.” And anyway he began to turn his life around He began to give; he began to tithe and he began to give offerings; a very very generous giver. As a result of that he owns a million dollar business God has opened up the doors for him and has done this tremendous tremendous supernatural miracle in his life in the area of finances.  And it’s all because he got a hold of of an understanding of that I’m not going to live my life as a taker any more; I’m not going to steal anymore. But I’m going to live my life as a giver.

Sid: My guest is Pastor Robert Gay and Robert on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about what God spoke to you about grace and the Ten Commandments and the great outpouring of God’s Spirit.  And how that many Christians are going to miss this outpouring because they don’t understand the New Covenant revelation of the Ten Commandments which will bring them to a higher level in God in every dimension of their life. Many would say “But Robert, Jesus Himself said “You only have to have 2 Commandments you don’t need the 10.”  What would say to that?

Robert:  Well, the first thing that I would say is that that’s actually not what Jesus said. (Laughing) And the second thing is I would say is to explain what He meant whenever He said it.  Jesus was asked a question and the question is “Which are the greatest Commandments, or which is the greatest Commandment?”  And of course He said “The greatest Commandment is to to “Love the Lord Your God with all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.”  And then He says in the second Command is liken unto it “You’ll love your neighbor as yourself.”  And then He says “On these two Commandments hang all the law and the prophets.  And so what was understood by the Jewish theologians is that the; of course the Ten Commandments were on two tablets.  The first tablet had to do with you loving the Lord; loving God.  The second tablet actually had to do with loving your neighbor as yourself and your behavior toward your neighbor.  So the first tablet had to do with the relationship we had to do with God.  The second tablet had to do with the relationship between man and his neighbor.  And so it was understood that that comprised the Ten Commandments.  So whenever Jesus actually said “To love the Lord your God with all your soul, all your heart and all your mind and all your strength” that was an immediate reference back to the first tablet.  And then when He said “Love your neighbor as yourself.” That’s an immediate reference back to the second table.”  And to even further verify that we see how that Paul said that “Loving your neighbor as yourself  actually caused all the other commandments particularly located in the second tablet how it caused all of them to be fulfilled.”

Sid: What did God show you about the Ten Commandments in the Prophet Jeremiah?

Robert: Well, Jeremiah began to speak over there in the 31st chapter of Jeremiah how that there was a New Covenant that was coming.  And what was different about the New Covenant was this God said, “I will write My law upon their hearts.”  And so there’s no indication that there would be so much a change of moral law but that the location of where the moral law was at that was what was going to change.  And so in the New Covenant what we have now is that we actually have those Commandments that are written upon our hearts rather than written on tables of stone.  So what we have now is a internal law that motivates us rather than an external law that imposes upon us.  So grace can in no way separate us from the Ten Commandments it actually ties us to them even to a greater degree.  Now we know that they are actually fulfilled through love but understand more to be fulfilled through love there must be something that needs to be fulfilled.  And I believe what we are to fulfill is obedience to the Ten Commandments.

Sid: What one of the things that to me is an amazing revelation is that you call your book “Next Level.”  You’ve see that when people look at the Ten Commandments with grace it’s the only way to live.  Give us some examples.

Robert:  Well, again we’ve seen so many folks who as they grab a hold of this revelation first of all it begins to change the way that they live.  It changes their behavior; it changes they’re outlook on life because now I’m not looking at grace merely as something that covered my sin; as wonderful and great as that is but the grace of God is the fact that I am now empowered to live above sin.  That’s the reason Paul said “Sin will not have dominion over you.” And the reason for that is because now I live my life by the law of the Spirit.  But the law of the Spirit is not contrary to the Ten Commandments.  And so what we have to begin to realize as we begin to receive this revelation; as we begin to understand that we can live life at a higher level.  You know I know of churches that have taught and even pastors many times that have taught that you just can’t help but sin there’s no way that you can live a lifestyle of obedience.  And I believe that the grace of God is greater than that and I believe that we can live at a higher level. And as we begin to do that it opens up realms to us that causes things to begin to take place within our lives that are only available when we only experience as a result of obedience and adherence to what God has called us to do.

Sid: Give me an example; take one of the Commandments and show us how it operates under grace.

Robert:  Well, let’s just take for instance the Commandment of – the 2^nd Commandment which is “You’re not to make any graven image and you’re not to bow down to that image.” Really the heart of the Commandment is all about worship.  AS a matter of fact where it actually commands for those to not bow down to idols.  The word bow down there the Hebrew word is translated repeatedly through the Books of Psalms as worship.  So the commandment is not so much don’t have any sculptured idol; that really was not what God was speaking about.  But He was talking about worship; He was talking about the mandate of worship and how worship is so important.  I think that it’s so interesting to…as you even begin to look at that Commandment that whenever, Jesus was being tempted by the devil in the wilderness He actually used that Commandment to overcome the devil.  The enemy came to Him; the devil came to Him and said “You can have all of these things things that you are looking at right now; all the kingdoms of this world you can have them right now if you’ll bow down and worship me.”  What Jesus uses then to overcome the devil He reaches back over into the 2^nd Commandment and He begins to actually quote the 2^nd Commandment and He says “You will only worship the Lord and Him only will you serve.”  And so Jesus is actually restating the 2^nd Commandment which is a commandment about worship.  And what’s very interesting Sid is after Jesus says that the Bible says that the devil left him.  It’s interesting that when we start worshiping God how that actually causes the devil to begin to run away.  I think that there are a lot of believers that would have a lot less trouble in their life if they begin to live a lifestyle of worship; a lifestyle of praise. But that is all withheld in the 2^nd Commandment we can see that mandate of worship that we see dictated in the 2^nd Commandment.

Sid: You know I’m reminded; I’m told that when you worship at your congregation you’ve literally without an altar call or anything had people run to the altar to be saved.

Robert: And we have had that happen on numerous occasions.  We had one time a gentleman that had actually decided that he was going to be an atheist.  And not only but he had left his wife and he had filed for divorce.  They had went through a divorce; he had came back and visited in a service and in the middle of worship God got a hold of of his heart; God got a hold of his heart.  He came down in the middle of worship and he rededicated his life and today their family’s back together; today they’re serving the Lord.

Sid: You know on tomorrow’s broadcast the revelations that God has given you on the New Covenant understanding of the connection between grace and the 10 Commandments.  I believe every Christian has to hear this; in fact my experience; well it’s been your experience even knowing all of the Ten Commandments.

Robert:  Well, I think that it can definitely be argued from just the life styles that many people who call themselves Christians live I think that it can be argued that they don’t even know the 10 Commandments. And I believe that we need to have a fresh understanding; and you know you think about this God could have said anything that he wanted to say to his people, declare to Moses their on mount Sinai. But there were 10 specific edicts that God gave.  Well if God felt that it was so important that He Himself would come down and engrave those in tablets of stone I believe that we as Christians should definitely place some value upon these commands that God given to us.

Sid: Well, I love the uniqueness of your teaching.

Sid: My guest Tom Horn, I’ll tell you what Tom if someone felt Jesus is coming a 1000 years from now and He’s not coming back soon when they get a hold of your brand new book “Zenith 2016” they will change their entire paradigm.  What do you believe after gathering all these facts; is Jesus going to return in your life time?

Tom:  Oh absolutely. I would be absolutely astonished but of course if I die and go to Heaven (Laughing) and meet with Him there it hasn’t yet happened yet but I’ll be happy about that too.  But it’s hard Sid to look around the world right now and not see prophecy in every possible way being fulfilled.  In fact, Matthew 24:37 it talks about “As it was in the days of Noah.”  And I would challenge anybody to examine what is going on right now in the genetic sciences and not see that we are for the first time since the great flood repeating something that happened only once before in history and it didn’t end very well the last time around.

Sid: You’re talking about the Nephilim when the falling angels went into the daughters of man and produced these great giants.  Tell me about this genetic engineering that’s going on.

Tom:  Yeah, in fact I spoke not long ago at the science and supernatural conference in Dayton, Ohio and I went there convinced that most Ohioans are unaware that in their state their tax dollars in preparation of what’s being called a post human revolution their tax dollars are being invested.  Case Law School in Cleveland was awarded almost a million dollars from the National Institute of Health to actually begin to developing the guidelines that are going to be used for creating the blueprint of a new form of humanity that will arrive by genetic enhancement.  We’re talking about you know one of our universities. Maxwell Mehlman who is the professor of bioethics at Case Law School of Medicine, he led the team.  He got the grant; he lead the team of Law Professors, Physicians, bioethicist by a 2 year period that ended not long ago to develop the standards using human subjects.  Now we don’t know what way they were using human subjects, but using them in order to create genetic technologies to enhance and altar normal individuals in evolution.

Sid: Now what’s the advantage of doing this; why are we spending our money?

Tom:  Well, so many especially in those that work in germ line genetic engineering are saying we’ve invested a great deal of money to try to figure out how to cure diseases.  How to create a stronger individual; we even have a constitutional responsibility to think that we have rights that have to do with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  That every individual has the right to lead a healthier life, a longer life.  And so a great deal of research monies which comes from the tax payers is pulled into the genetic sciences; it’s for the purposes of helping healthier human’s per say.  You may have seen in the news for instance recently in Britain where there was a child that was created out of 3 parents; 2 women and 1 man.  In order to create that embryo they had to change at the germ-line genetic level.  And this was kind of a line which we have now crossed that many have been afraid of for a long time.  Why?  Because when you altar the human species at the germ-line level those alterations pass down to all succeeding generations.  So it’s not like somebody goes into to a genetics laboratory and gets some enhancement that makes them run better, but if they have children that’s not going to be passed on to them.  Germ-line changes which we’re making now will pass to all succeeding generations and this sounds very reminiscent of what happened in the days of Noah where alterations to the human species ultimately lead to the human contamination of all human and animal genetics and therefore led to the judgment of God.

Sid: Now you talk about in your book combining human DNA with animal DNA; where did you get that?

Tom:   It’s happening all over the world; would you be surprised maybe your listeners might to know that literally 10’s of 1000’s of laboratories including in the United States, and Britain and all of the leading countries right now are creating part human and part animal primaries for research purposes.  For instance you could go to Google right now and type in “Scientists want debate on animal with human genes.” And you would find a reputable Reuters news article and it hints at how far scientist have come and how far they intend to go with human and animal hybridization. In fact, the article starts out saying this “A mouse that can speak, a monkey with down syndrome, dogs with human hands or feet; British scientist want to know if such experiments are acceptable.”  And then the article goes on with revelations…

Sid: Now would these trans-humans be human, would they be able to vote, would they have freedom.  I mean these are all some major things that have to be worked out by society.  So would it be possible to have a half-wolf and a half-man and have them part of a military SWAT team?

Tom:  Yeah, well it’s interesting that you bring that up; some of the leading law schools right now are creating white papers in which they’re saying that for Instance Crime Instigation (CSI) is going to have to adapt to these new realities.  Because in the future you were investigating a crime scene that was perpetrating by something that was half human and half wolf. Perhaps nothing we know about profiling that crime scene would apply any longer.  Now, we’re about legitimate; largest in the world universities.  Furthermore, for instance the Brooking Institute, this is number 1 thinking tank in the world; it is the umber 1 think tank in the United States that bends the ear of US Congressman and lawmakers. And right now you can look up their future of the constitution series and right now they’re talking right now about your very question Sid about how we’re going to have to alter and add language to the Bill of Rights.  To the US constitution to define how the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution could be extended to human; non-humans. In other words, what their saying is we are poised now probably on the battlefield and later on through the whole hybrid age phenomenon, human enhancement phenomenon.  We are about to start creating forms of human that are so unlike those that God made that it cannot be assumed that they would be protected under our current Constitution and Bill of Rights privileges. So there is a …if a person goes to Google and just types in “The hybrid age” they’ll find dozens of documents that are coming from the university level. And what they are saying is this “What we already have done to genetically modified crops; what we already have done to genetically and trans-genetically created animals that are part one animal and part another animal; and what we already have done to genetically modify humans at least at the embryonic level we are now poised to enter into a new revolution.

Sid: Alright, let me ask you something “How does this technology tie in with the whole anti-Christ system?”

Tom:  Well, how it ties into the anti-Christ system is that many have believed for some time that the anti-Christ may not be entirely human that he maybe something else.  The book of Revelation talks about him as “He who was and is not yet shall be; and that how the whole world will marvel at this person who once was and then wasn’t.” Maybe at the time of writing Revelation he was dead and the world was more something, and maybe now he’s back again.  And many believe that this implies something to do with genetics; you know we’re talking right now about bringing the wooly Mammoth back from the dead.  We have the technology now we really do; if we can find impact DNA we have the technology to resurrect; to back from the dead species that have been extinct for literally hundreds and perhaps in some cases 1000’s of years.  And some think that when we’re talking about the Anti-Christ that’s the kind of technology that can be used.  But even if you didn’t go into that part of it how this is prophetic is it seems like what we’re doing now was only ever done once before; we only have one history of the time let’s call them genetic scientist came down to earth in the days of Jared.  And they came and took the genetics of woman, animals, maybe more than that maybe plants.  And they created this construct that we call the Nephilim.  It wasn’t human and it couldn’t have a redeemable soul.  It couldn’t redeem a soul but it was something into which they could extend themselves.  Now God dealt with that; and it’s very clear that the flood came because the Bible says “All flesh both man and beast had been corrupted.” But now for the first time since the time of the flood we are entering into a time when man was repeating something that only happened once before into that we are crossing over the species barrier.

Sid: Tom we’re running out of time unfortunately but tell me about this brand new book “Zenith 2016,” what does it cover?

Tom:  Well, it covers starting from the Freemasons to the end of the Mayan Calendar and we go into why Christian’s should care about what that means.  The role of Pope Francis the final Pope.  There is 800 year old prophecy of Rabi Judah ben Samuel; so many of these who were pointing to something starting in the year 2012 that would reach its Zenith in the year 2016 and the big question is “Did they know something?”; is there an occultic energy operating here to bring about the arrival of the anti-Christ?

Sid: You know I’m reminded the last time that I interviewed you you literally died and 5 minutes later you came back to life.  And a week after that God spoke a scripture to you; what was that scripture.

Tom:  Yeah, this was in the book of Job and it said “That in the night time in deep sleep in slumbering upon the bed then the righteous receive the instructions from God and God does this to hide pride from man.”

Sid: Well, I’m convinced that this book is part of the instructions that God sealed within you.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone at his office in Tampa, Florida is Dr. John Miller. He is a chiropractor that has studied healing for almost for 40 years, but the last 22 God has opened his eyes to healing in the Passover. This weekend begins Pesach, begins Passover, that’s why he’s my guest. On yesterday’s broadcast… we’ve been talking about discerning the body because many people do not receive their healing in communion because they don’t really understand what happened at the Last Supper. The greatest revelation of what happened is found in the Old Covenant in Isaiah the 53^rd chapter which my Orthodox Jewish father, the last thing in the world he wanted to say was there’s a description of Jesus in the Old Testament, in the Jewish scriptures. When I read Isaiah 53 for the first time to my dad Dr. John Miller, when I read that to him and at that time he was a non-believing Orthodox Jew he said “Stop you’re reading about Jesus” and I said “Dad this was written 800 years before Jesus came to earth. It’s in our own Jewish scriptures” and I had to show him the Bible was a Jewish Bible. Because it is definitely the 53^rd chapter of Isaiah is in the Jewish scriptures, it’s just not read in the synagogue. So that’s why the word of God says “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge” and many Jewish people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge of God’s word. The unfortunate thing is, Dr. John Miller, many Christians are destroyed for a lack of knowledge of God’s word. You were teaching yesterday on that most significant passage Isaiah 53 if you would begin teaching on that now.

John: Okay we had covered “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows” and mentioned that the word “born” is “nasah” which means removed; griefs was the Hebrew word “kholi” which means diseases and sicknesses, and sorrows is the Hebrew word “m’cabah” which means affliction, grief, pain and sorrow. So the prophesy says that “Jesus is going to remove our sicknesses and diseases.” Now this is proven in the New Testament by Matthew’s writing in Matthew 8:17 that says “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.” Now when you consider that Matthew one of the apostles of Jesus was a Jew and could read Hebrew he knew exactly what Isaiah 53:4 said. I have heard discussion about translators of different translations of the Bible said “That we cannot give the Hebrew the literal meaning, or the Full Gospel people will have exactly what they want.”

Sid: Hmm.

John: Now can you imagine hiding the word of God because it disagrees with your belief (Laughing). Verse 5 actually sums up the entire atonement because as a man we are spirit, soul, and body. I pray that your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless till the coming of the Lord, Paul teaches us. This is such a beautiful verse of scripture that sums up the entire atonement. It says “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities.” Transgressions and iniquities are sin, that has to do with your spiritual atonement. “The chastisement of our peace was upon him,” that’s the mental the peace that passes all understanding. “And with his stripes we are healed” so we have the full atonement what Jesus did at Cavalry to redeem us spiritually, mentally, and physically. I want the people to understand Jesus was made to be sin for us. 2^nd Corinthians 5:21 says “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” So at Cavalry Jesus was made to be sin. Where did God get the sin to make Him sin with? 1^st Peter 2:24 tells us “Who his own self took our sins in his own body.” So God reached forward into time and space 2000 years, took our sin, put in Jesus and then exhausted His wrath against our sin on Jesus. At the same time we find out He was made be sick with our sicknesses. Isaiah 53 verse 10 says “Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief.” Here again the English translation is incorrect. The Hebrew word there “grief” is “chalah” 2, 470 times that is translated sick in the Old Testament. So it says, literally, “Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath made Him to be sick” not “He hath put Him to grief.” Well it pleased the Lord to make Jesus sick with our sicknesses so that we could walk in health. It’s just almost impossible for the human mind to conceive that God had so much love for the human race that He would put His only begotten son in that position. There’s a song that says “I just want to make sure He gets what He paid for.” He already took the thorns in the scalp, the lashes on the back for healing, crucified on the cross. If we don’t take advantage of it, then He’s not getting what He paid for. So it’s our job on this radio program to make sure Jesus gets what He paid for by people taking advantage of the fact that Jesus was made sick with their sicknesses, just as well as He was made to be sin with their sin.

Sid: Something I’d like to do on tomorrow’s broadcast so I want to give you a heads up. We’re going to take communion tomorrow because as you know this weekend begins Passover, and that’s the occasion of the Last Supper, and where we learn about communion. I’m going to have John share in English, and I’ll actually be chanting the Hebrew melodies. The same Hebrew prayers that Yeshua, that’s Hebrew for Jesus, chanted. John I have a question, does it matter to God if you have grape juice, or wine, or just any type of fruit juice when you’re taking communion?

John: No because the wine that we use at communion is not the literal blood, it’s something that we’re using as a tangible to make us realize it. The human lives in a physical body, in a physical world, and relate physically more than anything else that’s why He gave us baptism. So when you go in the water and come back up you’re identifying with the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah. Now you talked about people earlier that have taken communion and asked for healing for years and never gotten it. You know probably every one of those people felt if Jesus walked in the room and they could touch Him they would be healed. Well that’s what God provided through communion is our physical representation of touching Jesus, and partaking of His sacrifice.

Sid: John tell me some people that have been recently healed taking communion, but even more important when you teach this are many people healed?

John: Yes many people are being healed. As this message goes forth more and more preachers are talking about it on TV, and I hear more and more results from the message testimonies where people have been healed. One of my favorite stories Sid is I presented this teaching in Largo, Florida. About 6 months later a lady called me from that church and said her and husband were members in that church and they weren’t there that Sunday I gave the teaching, but everybody was talking about the teaching so they ordered the tape. She says “My husband is a very private man and really doesn’t discuss any private issues with me.” He had cancer of the bladder and even wore a bag on his leg where the urine dripped to. After they received the tape he would come home and say “Where is that tape of Dr. Miller.” He would go back in his bedroom and listen to it. She said “Every night he listened to it for about a week.” She said “I knew it was working when he said ‘Would you please get me some wine and some unleavened bread.’” So every night when he would get home he’d go back in his bedroom. She said “Not only is he totally healed, but he was always such a quiet and shy person that he would never get up and say anything in church.” She said “Today my husband is teaching your communion message in Full Gospel Businessmen’s Fellowship meetings all over the country.” (Laughing)

Sid: Hmm. Let me ask you kind of a little different thing, what about couples that are having marital problems? Could communion help them?

John: I was surprised when I was on the Perry Stone show and he said the churches he went to where he had taught this the pastors were saying “They’re hardly having to do any marriage counseling because it was straightening out all of their marriage.” Because the third part of our atonement “The chastisement of our peace was upon Him” that’s the mental. The Israelites had to eat ALL of the lamb, they had to eat the brain which would not only straighten out their thinking, but would heal their brain physically. I know a man that used to be a boxer and he’s pretty rough personality. He told me that his kids would tell him once in a while “Dad it’s been a while since you’ve had communion (Laughing).

Sid: Hmm.

John: Because when he takes communion regularly his personality is much calmer.

Sid: I can see where whole families if they start taking communion together will start walking in what Jesus told us was the most important commandment, the Shema “To love God with all of our spirit, soul, and body, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourself.” Somehow I see that as a mighty catalyst for families to really demonstrate God’s love.

John: Yeah you should take on the mind of Christ…

Sid: Woops we’re out of time.

SID: You know what is so amazing is John and his wife are being dealt with by God to adopt a little girl in Ukraine, this little girl was praying something in Ukraine. What was she praying?

JOHN: She was praying for a forever family.

SID: I don’t know about you, but God, you are amazing. God, you are amazing. And you know, when you adopt, sometimes they come with a lot of baggage. But John was taught the power of blessing his children. And what do you do with that big family of yours?

JOHN: Well all my children have come to expect one thing from me, and that is to be blessed. And they won’t go to bed until I bless them at night. And what’s really cool is to adopt these three children and now be able to impart that same blessing, to impart to them the equal rights as though they were a biological child.

SID: You know, there is a scripture in which Moses is instructed by God that if he would bless the children of Israel a certain way that God’s name would be inscribed on that. I believe that you can bless everyone. Some of you have never been blessed by your father. Just the way you bless your children, but sing it. Would you do that right now?

JOHN: Absolutely. [singing] May the Lord bless and keep you, make His face to shine upon you and raise his countenance on you and give you peace. And may the Lord make like you a crying man in… forgetting the troubles of your past and having a fruitful future.

SID: Wow. John, when you have a concert and you share people get set free from anxiety, depression, addiction. Tell me about someone who was set free from addiction.

JOHN: Well a couple years ago I was doing an event and a guy came up to me and he said, “I saw you in concert with my wife about a year ago.” He said, “My marriage was on the rocks.” He said, “I’ve been struggling with an addiction, with pornography that I had struggled with since I was young.” And he said, “I had never been blessed before, not by my father or by anybody.” He said, “But when you sang those blessings over me that night, God set me free, my marriage is doing very well. I’m walking in victory from this.” And he said, “I just wanted to thank you.”

SID: You wrote a song called, “I Know My God.” Because I have to tell you something. If you don’t know your God, the devil is around there like a roaring lion, and he will feed you lies. Even after you’ve been physically healed, the symptoms will come back. You’ve got to resist the devil and he’ll flee as in terror. But you had that happen to you. Is that how you got the song, “I Know My God”?

JOHN: You know, the enemy is always looking for an opportune time to come back. If you’ve been set free from something he’s always going to try to come back and convince you otherwise. And he’s tried to do that with me for years. I remember when we were about to adopt the kids, I was like, how in the world am I to take care of all these children? What if I lose my voice tomorrow? What if the depression comes back? And so I battled with the enemy one night, and just extreme fear came upon me. And I battled the best way I knew how. I finally went to sleep and I woke up the next morning with this thought in my head. I don’t know what the future holds. I don’t know if I’ll be able to sing for the rest of my life. But I do know my God. I do know that He will take care of me. I do know that He supplies all my needs. I do know that He set me free. He’s my deliverer. He’s my healer. So I do know that

SID: John, if you would go to the music set right now. And that’s the whole purpose of life. Do you know your God? John Waller, he knows his God. He wants you to know his God.

JOHN [music, singing]: When it seems like I am done, when it looks like there’s no way and the lies come like a flood, oh I know my God. So I set my eyes above and I realign my heart. Where my hell comes from, I trust ’cause I know my God. Hallelujah, hallelujah. I know my God, come heal me. I know my God, do not delay. Hallelujah, hallelujah. I know my God will hold me up ’cause my rock and will not judge. I know my God. I know my savior. I will look into the mountains when my strength is gone. When my enemy surrounds me I will sing my song. I know my God and He will say, I know my God will not delay. Hallelujah, hallelujah. I know my God will hold me up ’cause He’s my rock. I know my God. I know my savior.

SID: Remember the little orphan in Ukraine, Anna, is praying to God, “I want a forever family.” Well God is praying for you right now. He’s saying, “I have my arms open to you. I want you to be in my forever family.” If you make Jesus your Messiah and Lord, believe he forgave you of your sins, rose from the dead, and ask him to live inside of you, he will right now.

SID: I’m Sid Roth. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is an expert in terrorism and he is going to speak about secret papers that have been found that show for the plans of terrorist organizations to destroy the United States of America, and it won’t be a secret any more. My guest, Eric Stakelbeck, is one of the foremost experts in terrorism. And you’ve probably seen Eric on CNN or on Fox, or a number of different shows in which he’s a resource for what’s going on the world. But the thing that just absolutely astounds me is I knew something about a terrorist group called the Muslim Brotherhood, but I had no idea, Eric. Tell me a bit about the Muslim Brotherhood. Why does the media, our administration, posture them as moderate? What’s the reason?

ERICK: Sid, first of all, their tactics. They dress like you and I. They wear suits and ties. They are eloquent. They are Western educated. They speak fluent English. This is not Al-Qaeda. These are not the guys with the flowing beards and the robes, and the AK-47s. The Muslim Brotherhood are very charming, Sid, and I’ve interviewed them face to face. I’ve been in their homes. I’ve been in their mosques. I’ve been in their offices. And Sid, if I didn’t know any better, I would actually like them. They are quite charming. But that charming façade and veneer hides a sinister agenda, Sid. And at the end of the day, they share the same goals as Al-Qaeda.

SID: But you know what it reminds of, as you’re sharing this, Eric, the KKK. They used to wear the robes and now they put on business suits. Are they college educated? Are they bright?

ERICK: Yes. Sid, not only are they college educated, many of them have been educated in the West, in the United States, in Europe. People would be shocked to know about the Muslim Brotherhood presence in the United States. Sid, they are here. I’ll give you a great example. Mohammed Morsi, the now deposed Egyptian president, he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, not in Egypt, but in the United States, in California when he was a student at USC, the University of Southern California. That’s where Mohammed Morsi became a Muslim brother. Sid, they are here in the United States.

SID: Now you say they’re a new breed beyond the suit. They’re raising homegrown terrorists. What do you mean?

ERICK: Sid, we’ve seen case after case over the past few years in the United States, dozens of cases, young American Muslims, U.S. citizens being arrested on terrorism charges. Sid, I’ll give you great example of this Muslim Brotherhood style link and how they’re really the driving force behind all the Islamic terror we see today. The Boston bombers, those two young brothers up in Boston, killed three people, wounded 264 more. Sid, they attended a mosque in the Boston area controlled by a Muslim Brotherhood linked group. Surprise, surprise.

SID: I heard in the news that the Muslim Brotherhood has been out to the White House at least a hundred times in the last calendar year.

ERICK: Sid, Muslim Brotherhood-connected individuals, individuals with strong ties to the global Muslim Brotherhood network absolutely are advising our government, the U.S. government on its counter-terrorism and Middle East policies. This is the epitome of the fox guarding the hen house. And you wonder why America’s Middle East policies right now are kind of a mess and we see all this chaos in the Middle East. We have the bad guys, the Brotherhood, in the halls of power in our lawmakers’ ears.

SID: All right. You used the phrase, that the granddaddy of all terrorism. Do you really mean that, Eric?

ERICK: Sid, I mean it 100 percent. All of the terrorist chaos, the madness we see today, the war on terror, Al-Qaeda, Hamas, spawned by the Muslim Brotherhood, Sid, Al-Qaeda is an offshoot of the Brotherhood. Hamas is an offshoot of the Brotherhood. Sid, I made the point many times that without the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in 1928, there would have been no 9-11. I say that without hesitation. It may shock some people. But everyone behind the 9-11 attack, Sid, the American people need to know this, why this group is so important, the Brotherhood. Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the hijackers, every last one of them, Sid, before they joined, before they formed Al-Qaeda, they belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood is really the gateway drug to Islamic terrorism and jihad.

SID: What is going on in America? I see mosques just sprouting up all over.

ERICK: Sid, this is not a coincidence. I’m so glad you brought this up. Because the number of mosques in America, a lot of viewers might not be aware of this, the number of mosques in America has actually doubled since 2000, since the year 2000. Now if you look at the Muslim Brotherhood strategic documents, and by the way, Sid, these mosques are not just in New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, areas with large Muslim populations. They’re popping up in the Bible belt, taking overseas funding. Why, Sid, if you have such a small Muslim community, why do you need such a large sprawling mosque complex? The imams, and I’ve interviewed them, they can answer, and they also can answer where the money is coming from.

SID: Okay. Why did they need so many in these small areas?

ERICK: Sid, if you look at the Muslim Brotherhood strategic documents, and by the way, people might be shocked to know that our government, the U.S. government has the Muslim Brotherhood’s documents in its possession. The secret documents that I’ve written about, long story short, during the raid of the leading Muslim Brotherhood operatives, just outside of Washington, D.C., 10 minutes from our capitol, this guy had set up shop, the FBI raided his home, they uncovered these secret Muslim Brotherhood documents that outline a strategy to “destroy western civilization, America, from within.” And one way they’re going to do that, Sid, according to their own documents, is to build mosques from coast to coast. This is a central tenant of the Brotherhood’s strategic plan to subvert America from within.

SID: And how come there’s these schools of Islam springing up at major universities? I mean, how does Harvard have a school of Islam? It used to be a Jewish university? How does Georgetown, a Catholic university, have these schools?

ERICK: It’s the money, Sid. Look at the money trail. This Georgetown Islamic branch at Georgetown University, a Catholic university, $20 million. Harvard, $20 million. Came from the same man, a Saudi prince, and the Saudis are the main purveyors, you would say of spreading radical Islam worldwide. And it’s very interesting. They have billions of dollars in these petro dollars, Sid, with this oil empire they have in Saudi Arabia. And they are missionaries in many ways, spreading Islam throughout Europe, throughout America, billions and billions of dollars over the past few decades. And they have worked with the Muslim Brotherhood, by the way. The Saudis provide the money. The Brotherhood provides the imams and the ideologues at these mosques. That has been the blueprint, traditionally, very interesting strategy that they have.

SID: One last question. Is it true that the Koran says, when you’re small, when Islam is small, be peace-loving. Once you get larger, take over.

ERICK: This is the example Mohammed said. It’s absolutely true. Mohammed was not a political leader. When he was just a struggling so called prophet in the city of Mecca, Mohammed was more conciliatory towards Jews and Christians. He wanted to win them to his side. Later on in his career, Sid, he went to the city of Medina, became a warrior, a political leader. All of a sudden, his so called revelations changed and became more violent and more intolerant of Christians and Jews. Once Mohammed gained the power, he became much more intolerant and violent towards non-Muslims.

SID: I want to talk about these secret documents when we come back.

Sid:  I promise you if you’re look warm and you choose to be red hot for the Messiah there will be such an outpouring of God’s glory that even as I’m speaking to you right now people are being healed. I heard that there are people in the necks if you move your head you’ll see the pain is gone. In the back, the hip any bone problem; any ache you are healed in Jesus Name.  My guest, and I have him in Chicago is Renny McLean, and his wife Marina McLean I have her in Dallas; this is really high-tech.  But Marina all this week we’ve been featuring Renny’s new book “Eternity Invading Time” and I want a demonstration of eternity invading time.  What is actually happening in the invisible realm when a true worshiper of God worships God in Spirit and in truth Marina?

Marina:  What happens is that worship sets the atmosphere of the earth for the glory of God and when you worship you’re recreating the glory of God rising from the Earth.  As early morning the due rises from the earth to the sky and you just set the presence of God ripe for anything to happen.

Sid: Speaking of anything you told me the last time we got together about a word of knowledge and a lady was healed of AIDS, I believe Renny had the word what happened?

Marina:  It was an unusual service and Renny looked at this lady and started praying by word of knowledge he said she had AIDS the HIV virus and we all thought “Oh my goodness he’s missed it nobody that would come into a service like this with HIV.”  And she was slain as he prayed for her and she got up and she just looked a little different and she went away and she went to see her doctor.  And when she walked into the room her doctor knew that something had happened and he did the test on her and could find no trace of HIV. The powerful thing about this miracle was that she was part of a support group for others with HIV and she was able to go out and evangelize to them.  And because of the miracle in her life her children came to church the following Sunday and gave their heart to the Lord.

Sid: Out of curiosity when she ministers now are people healed of AIDS?

Marina: I think so, we haven’t seen her in a while and the last time we saw her was a few years before we left London and she put on weight which is a good sign when you put on weight after having HIV, and just looked incredible.

Sid: Now Marina I’m going to ask you to worship God and this is what I believe Mishpochah, as Marina worships God, and as I worship God, and as Renny worships God, and as you worship God as this occurs I want you to worship God too.  If you’re driving I want you to pull off to the side of the road because I believe that eternity, God’s realm, is about ready to invade time, our realm.  Eternity will draw close as we worship God; this is not just techs book theology this is reality.  Marina would you worship the Lord?

Marina: (Praying in the Spirit singing song.)

Sid: Renny what are you seeing now?

Renny:  I’m seeing people being miraculously healed.  I just saw a cancer dissolve and a woman’s upper area in a woman’s chest area.  I see hernias right now leaving; even as I’m speaking I’m continuing seeing a lot of hernias leaving right now. I’m seeing somebody’s right, I’m seeing somebody with a hip condition and it’s caused your leg to be shorter than the other by about 2 to 3 inches.  I’m seeing miracles happening now with people’s bones.  I’m seeing the leg now just grow out in Jesus Name.  I just want everybody that’s sick right now to put their hands on their sickness right now it’s being healed right now, it’s being healed right now.  I just saw another hip condition; I just saw a hip that was out of place just get back into place; I’m seeing it right now.  I’m seeing a broken arm mend; I’m seeing it start to set. I’m seeing somebody right now with a leg brace on.  You’ve had the leg brace on now for about 2  to 3 years years and I don’t fully know the exact condition but you’ve had it on for at least 2 to 3 years and it isn’t getting better.  It’s a condition you were in an accident and you were cut out of the car wreck and you were told you will have to live that way and you cannot feel anything in your legs.  Right now the power of God right now is creating the feeling right now and you’re starting to feel your leg but you’ve not felt in years right now because it was stitched back on because you had a car accident and now life is coming back now to that part of the body. A creative miracle right now has just taken place; I see a woman right now I see a woman right now; I see a pelvis fracture.  I just see it again; I see another pelvis condition right now.  I see as it were somebody you had a fracture from an accident I cannot describe it but all I’m seeing is a cracked pelvis.  And you’re wearing something like a hip brace or something and right now the power of God right now goes through you right now and you’re feeling a tingling sensation right now you’re feeling it even as I’m saying it and it’s starting to be healed right now.  It’s now complete you’re going to find out if you take it off you’re going to find out it’s going to feel hard, it’s going to feel solid; the Lord has healed it it’s totally recreated it.  I’m seeing somebody right now in a wheelchair right now and I’m seeing right now where the Lord’s had is all over you.  You sense a warmth going down you, that’s right you’re in a wheelchair through a spinal condition and right now even as I’m speaking right now you can feel something going down the back of your spine going down into the nerve system.  And you’re starting to feel life come back into the spin; that’s the creative miracles right there.  In Jesus Name right now life is coming back; now you can feel the rest of your legs in Jesus Name you are healed today I can see it even as I’m speaking it.  I’m seeing it get up rise, walk; there’s people right now watching, listening to us right now with crutches… I just saw somebody specifically you just came out of the hospital you’re recovering from a stroke and you’re slow of speech but right now that paralysis right now is lifting off your face; your face is becoming normal again in Jesus Name. It’s as if the devil right now isn’t letting go of that side of your body. It’s as if he pinched your nerves and everything was held up.  All of your body right now smoothens out.  Your speech now returns; I just saw it come back right now; you speech returns.  And as a prophetic sign stand up on your feet and start to lift your knees up; start to kick your knees out and start to walk. Miracles are happening now; they are happening now.  I’m seeing a teeth condition right now, yes God even heals teeth God even does fillings. I’m seeing somebody with the back four of their teeth right now is in serious decay; I’m seeing God miraculously healing. I’m not talking tomorrow I’m talking now; a miracles happened. Oh, I’ll tell you brother Sid there are so many miracles happening right now I can barely keep up with what I’m seeing.

Sid: Renny the reason the miracles are happening is the glory realm the eternity realm has invaded time.

Renny: Yes.