Sid Roth

LARRY: (claps) Welcome back to Something More. I’ve Judy Franklin here. We’re talking about experiences in the Heavenly realm, deeper dimensions of encounter with the Presence of God. These things sound wonderful, but the reality is, people experience hindrances to experiencing God, in new and deeper ways. God is willing; let me just let you know right now, God is willing. God wants to encounter you; He wants to draw nearer to you, He wants to touch you; He wants to embrace you, more than you actually want to embrace Him. And you might think, “Oh, I really want to experience more of God”; God’s level of desire for you will always exceed your desire for Him. But the reality is, there are very simple things that can be extremely dangerous in our lives – if we hold on to them – and they’re lies; they’re lies that we believe from the enemy. And Judy, I mean, I – I – I want you to just give some teaching right now, about the lies that the enemy tries to use – he’s tried to use on you —

 

JUDY: Yes.

 

LARRY: to keep you out of the presence of God; to keep people out of this place of encounter with Him. So —

 

JUDY: Yes. Will I first picked up on it I think when I was at a conference at a retreat. And one lady came up to me after the teaching and said, “I can’t get up to Jesus”. And she says, “I can see Him far off, but I can’t get close to Him”.

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: And I thought, “Well that’s strange”, so I started talking to her. And I said, “Do you feel like you’re worthy?”,  —

 

LARRY: Mm!

 

JUDY: and she just started crying and saying, “No, I’m not worthy to be.” And then it started me thinking that people are believing lies.

Of course Bill Johnson’s teaching on renewing your mind – I went through that; so I learned alot there. And it says in Romans

about “renewing … your mind….” Your spirit knows the truth, but your mind is really corrupt by the fall.

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: So what we have to do is tell our minds what to believe.

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: So you’re going along, and you commit a sin; and you’re always remembering this. And yes, you ask for forgiveness, but “How stupid it was to do that; that’s probably the fifth time you’ve done it.” Well what I have people do at the beginning is forgive themselves!

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: Because they’re believing a lie, that that sin is there; —

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: that they were stupid to do it. Well Jesus came to forgive us of all sins. He doesn’t just, “Oh, I forgive you”; He takes it away.

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: It’s “As far as the east is from the west….” It is no more; why are you thinking on that?

 

LARRY: Hm.

 

JUDY: You need to renew your mind. You need to stop believing lies. I thought I was stupid; I thought all sort of lies about myself; “God wouldn’t want me. I have no talents; I have no gifts”; well that’s a lie, too!

 

LARRY: Hm.

 

JUDY: I do have talents and gifts! He gave them to me! To say that we don’t belong with Him is a lie that we’re believing. I belong to Him – lock, stock and barrel – because of what Jesus did —

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: in my life. He forgave me —

 

LARRY: Um hm.

 

JUDY: of everything. I can boldly come before the throne, because I have no sin on me, —

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: because Jesus paid for that!

 

LARRY: Yep; yeah.

 

JUDY: Now do I do things wrong? Oh yes; I do.

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: But you wee, with forgiveness it’s gone.

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: So I think that’s very important, that people stop believing lies about themselves. I know that Bill Johnson

says that, “The only power that Satan has if we believe his lie”; otherwise, he doesn’t have the power. I’m sitting here

, and I’m in this studio, and I’m going to be on television, so you know I’m thinking about, —

 

LARRY: (chuckling) Yeah.

 

JUDY: “What do I look like?”

 

LARRY: (chuckling) Yeah!

 

JUDY: “What am I going to say?”, and “What if I say something bad?”, and “Hey, can I stop?”, and “Can I, you know, are you going to edit it and everything?”, —

 

LARRY: Sure.

 

JUDY: and I had to stop myself and go, “Wait a minute. God, You brought me here.”

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: “I know you give me things to say. And who cares what I look like; I don’t.” If – if you do, I’m sorry, —

 

LARRY: And it’s – it’s alright.

 

JUDY: but I’m not going to change.

 

LARRY: You look good now.

 

JUDY: (laughs)

 

LARRY: (laughs) Yeah; yeah.

 

JUDY: So I had refused to believe the lie!

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: If the Lord says, “Go up and pray for that person”, I go, “Oh; I don’t pray good; I don’t pray good, flowy prayers, and mine are just to-the-point, and -“, and I think, “No; that’s a lie —”

 

LARRY: Yes.

 

JUDY: “from the enemy!” He is “the father of lies”.

 

LARRY: Yes; yeah; yeah.

 

JUDY: That’s all he can do to us is tell us lies!

 

LARRY: Well that’s funny; I heard a friend of mine once say, “How do you know that the devil is lying?”, and then the question is, “Well how do you know?”; “If his lips are moving.”

 

JUDY: (laughs) There you go!

 

LARRY: Because – because isn’t that true? That’s all he does, and that’s how you recognize —

 

JUDY: Yeah!

 

LARRY: whether it’s God, or the devil; if you’re being lied to; yeah.

 

JUDY: And, you know, when I used – when my dad told me that I was too stupid to love, —

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: I took on that “Stupid; I’m stupid”.

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: Well then I go to school, and I have learning disabilities; “Oh; it’s because I’m stupid”. And all these patterns in my life came up whenever I did anything wrong, “It’s because I’m stupid; because I’m stupid”, so I lived my en- – my life believing I was “stupid”. It stopped me from doing things, because people might find out I’m “stupid”; so I didn’t talk to people, I didn’t – wasn’t around people alot, because I didn’t want them to find out I was “stupid”.

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: So that’s a lie I believed, all my life just about, —

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: until I had my encounter with God, —

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: and He exposed that lie. So what lies do people believe?

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: That they “Can’t be forgiven”; or they’re “Forgiven, or God is mad at ’em”; that’s – that’s one of the worst things that – to think, that God gets mad at us.

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: It’s impossible for Him to be mad at us; and people go, “Well that’s not true; He got mad at me”; I said, “No. If you’re saying God gets mad at you, what you are saying is: Jesus’ sacrifice for your life wasn’t enough”; —

 

LARRY: Mm!

 

JUDY: “because it paid for everything!”

 

LARRY: Yeah

 

JUDY: Everything!

 

LARRY: Yeah; yeah.

 

JUDY: Well even now Judy, I – I just want us to kind of do some tag-team ministry. I’m going to – I’m going to speak to the folks out there, and then I’m going to have – I’ll just switch it over to you. But I feel like the Lord wants to just really help dismantle some of these lies right now.

 

LARRY: Yes.

 

JUDY: And I’m going to – I’m going to just pray a few things, and then I’m going to have you pray. But right now, Father, in Jesus’ name, for those who are listening, I just sense that there are some of you who, like what Judy was talking about, you feel unworthy to enter the presence of God. You’re believing this lie, uh, “I’m a Christian,” [music] “but I’ve messed up. I’ve – I’ve sinned, I’ve made mistakes, a-and for whatever reason, I have to clean-up before I get into the Presence of God”; Jesus’ blood cleaned you up. In the presence of God is the grace and mercy you actually need to have victory over whatever you’re struggling with. God wants to help you, but it’s in His Presence; don’t let the enemy keep you out of His Presence. So I just declare that over you right now. Receive that, in Jesus’ name. You’re “[T]he righteousness of God in [Christ Jesus]”.

 

JUDY: That’s good. You know, I want to tell you that I know there’s somebody out there – more than one person out there – that as soon as we say, “You can go to Heaven”, your thoughts are you’re “Not good enough”, you’re “not special”, you know, that’s – “That’s for them; not for me”. And that’s a lie in your life that you have to stop, because He does love you that much, and He does want you to – want to take you into His arms, and love on you! It isn’t just, “Go do my stuff and I’ll love you”; it’s “I love you!”; and out of that love, we will go do his stuff. We want to love him; that’s the first commandment. “[L]ove the Lord your God with [everything]”. That’s what we want to do; that’s what I strive for; everything else comes along and comes together. But I want to love God. And I love when Bob Jones said um, when he died – when he got hit by lightning and he died, —

 

LARRY: Yeah; yeah.

 

JUDY: and he went to Heaven. And there was the Lord, and He was saying, “Did you learn to love?”

 

LARRY: Mm.

 

JUDY: He didn’t say, “How many sins do you have?”; all those are gone! He said, “Did you learn to love?”; and when they’d say, “Yes”, He’d say, “Enter in.”

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: Well I want to learn to love.

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: It’s not just a feeling; it’s learning —

 

LARRY: Yeah.

 

JUDY: to be patient, and kind, and not taking into account a wrong done. Love is the most important thing, and that’s what I get – from Heaven.

 

LARRY: Yeah; yeah. God’s calling you into His Presence. He made it legal; it is available. Remember, you are “[T]he righteousness of God in [Christ Jesus].” You’re worthy because of Jesus’ blood; stand on that. And every lie of the enemy – just go to the Word – say – you have it; you actually have a sure-fire response to every lie and fiery dart the enemy throws at your mind, and you can say “No. Because of what Jesus has done, He’s given me all access into the Presence of God, ad those Heavenly encounters are [music ends] available for me today.”

SID: You know, I was fascinated, and you know the one thing you said that really hit me like a two-by-four, is I would put my hand on someone and pray for them, and kind of get the Holy Spirit to go through my hand into them. But you said something different.

 

ART: Yes. I was always raised with this idea. I don’t think anyone ever taught it to me. But I thought that healing was something you learned yourself into, that you had to like learn techniques and figure out how to push power out your arm, and all that. I discovered it is none of that. It’s just my job is to do my part and only my part to completely trust Jesus to do the rest. I don’t have to think the right thought, feel the right feelings, say the right words, quote the right scriptures, claim the right promises, any of that. It’s just take Jesus at his word. He said, “Lay your hands on the sick and they’ll recover.”

 

SID: Tell me about your two-year-old son. Again, there’s hope for me and you. Even a two-year-old can do it.

 

ART: My wife was playing in the living room with our two boys and my four-year-old was right between her knees on the floor, and she had her elbows on her knees, leaning forward, and that four-year-old Joey popped up and hit her right in the nose. And I’m sitting in the dining room and I heard this loud pop. She reaches up and she’s got blood coming down her hands, and J.J., the two-year-old, he hops up, runs over before I could get there and says, “Mommy, you okay?” Touches her nose with his hand and said, “Nose be healed Jesus’ name.” The bleeding stops. The pain stops. She goes and looks in the mirror. There’s no sign of a broken nose. All she had to do was clean the blood off her hands and she was totally fine. Still to this day, no sign of a broken nose.

 

SID: What a wonderful way to be raised. But something really beyond a broken nose happened. Your wife goes into labor, 24 weeks, and you know that’s not a cool thing to happen. What occurred?

 

ART: Yes. That’s when she was in labor with Jeremiah, J.J., the youngest. I was at the store and she had had pre-term labor with our first, and so we were kind of expecting to be careful. But she knew what labor felt like. And I’m at the grocery store, and she called me and said, “I’m in labor.” And I said, “Are you serious? It hasn’t been long.” She said, “Yeah, I know and the contractions are five minutes apart.” I left my shopping cart there in the aisle, took off running for the car, drove as fast as I could to get home. Don’t tell the police. But as I’m driving I’m crying, sobbing in prayer. And I just said to the Lord out loud, I said, “God, I can’t do this. I’m not strong enough for this.” And he spoke back to my spirit right in that moment, and he said, “This is what I meant when I said, ‘My power is made perfect in your weakness.'” This peace hit me. I realized I never was strong enough. It was never about that. I drive home the rest of the way in peace still knowing it’s a serious issue, and I hurried into the house. My wife is standing there in the kitchen with her hands backwards on the counter having another contraction. And I knelt down on the floor, laid my hands on her stomach and said, “In Jesus’ name, contractions stop now.” That one stopped instantly. We grabbed the overnight bag, jumped in the car, drove a half-hour to the hospital. She had two or three more contractions on the way further and further apart. By the time we arrived the contractions were done. They ran a bunch of tests. They said, “We can’t find anything wrong with you. We don’t know what happened.”

 

SID: Why is it harder for even, say, a healing evangelist when they get hit with an incurable disease in their own home? I mean, that should be the easiest place. Why is it harder?

 

ART: Really, honestly, the only blocks exist between our own ears. So we had these problems with how much we love our family member. And so we have these expectations like, uh-oh, I hope this works, because if it doesn’t I have to go to bed with this person tonight or I have to see them in the morning, you know. And we wonder, is it going to happen this time? We’ve been pursuing it for so long. Like Proverbs 13 says that, “Hope deferred makes the heart sick.” This thing you’ve been believing for and pushing for, for so long, gets put off and put off. Your heart can get sick and you start to expect, well it didn’t happen the last 37 times I laid hands on my spouse or my kid, or whatever. Maybe it will happen this time. Probably not. I’ll just expect it in the future. And it’s hard to talk about how to persevere without setting people up with an expectation that they’ll have to persevere. And so we end up trying. We see nothing. We don’t know what to do after that. It is possible to persevere, but it’s also possible to expect it right here, right now, and that’s what we have to expect every single time we minister to our family.

 

SID: Okay. I heard what you said. But I want you to talk to someone that for 20 years has been dealing with a chronic problem and I don’t know even know if they believe anymore.

 

ART: Right.

 

SID: Talk to them.

 

ART: First thing’s first, you’re doing everything right. You’re doing everything right. The only, this is the thing, people ask me, is it okay if I minister healing to myself? I say absolutely.

 

SID: [unintelligible].

 

ART: Yes. There’s nothing in Scripture that tell you that you can’t minister healing to yourself. Okay. However, there’s also not a prescription that says you have to. In other words, if you’re trying and you’re seeing results, don’t feel bad. It wasn’t, the weight of responsibility wasn’t on your shoulders to begin with. So the only prescription for a sick believer is found in James 5, which is to go to other mature believers and have them minister to you. So my job as a believer, my job as a sick person is really to contend as much as I can to do whatever it is I know I can do, but remember, I can’t earn a healing. There’s nothing I can do that’s going to accomplish more than what Jesus already did. He did all the work. It is finished. That’s the truth. So I have to bank on that. I have to hold onto that truth and just keep persevering. Jesus said everyone who seeks, finds. Everyone who knocks, the door is open. The only way that that doesn’t happen is if I stop knocking, I stop seeking, I stop asking, there has to be perseverance. Now beyond all that, I would encourage you, when you’re seeking healing, you’re seeking for Jesus to receive what he paid for. That means that seeking healing is an act of worship, whether you’re seeking your own healing or seeking someone else’s healing. And it’s a form of worship that only exists in this world. You’re not going to have that on the other side of eternity because you’re going to be well. Everybody is fine there. But right now you have a very valuable form of worship that is meaningful to the Lord. It’s dear to his heart. You know, Matthew 25, Jesus talks about this parable of separating sheep from goats, and he’s talking about the final judgment. And he says to the sheep, “I was sick and you cared for me,” or you looked after me. He didn’t say, “I was sick and you healed me.” See, when I stand before the Lord at the end of time I’m not going to have to answer for whether or not I ever worked a miracle. In fact, the people who pointed at their miracles for their justification, he says, “I never knew you.” What I will have to answer for is whether or not I loved. And so people who have someone who is in a chronic condition and they’re not healed yet, know that the greatest and most important thing to the Lord’s heart is the fact that you are loving and you’re caring, and you’re going out of your way to take care of that person.

 

SID: I want Art to pray when we come back. Number one, I believe God is going to operate through words of knowledge for your healing. I mean, he’s had many, many meetings where a hundred percent have been healed. But I also want him to pray that you have all these barriers come off and you start fresh for the greatest move of God’s spirit in history. God thinks enough about you. He had you born for this big wrap-up move of his Spirit. Be right back.

SID: I’m here with Julie Meyer. And Julie, God spoke to you about this program. What did he tell you?

 

JULIE: I’ll sing it. [singing] There’s an open Heaven. There’s no ceiling, angels ascending, descending again. There’s an open Heaven. [speaking] That’s what he said.

 

SID: I like that. Tell me, you’re a dreamer and you had a dream about angels of revival. That interests me. What did you see?

 

JULIE: Yes, I had a dream and in this dream I was told by the Lord to call forth the angels of revival. And I was told to call them forth three times. And so in the dream I just, I did, I said, “I call forth the angels of revival.” And I could see these great angels, it’s like they were sleeping, like in the Swiss Alps. I mean, they were sleeping and they got up and suddenly, the dream the shifted, and I was with James Goll, and he looked heavenly, and this host of Heaven was with him. In fact, he looked so heavenly that in the dream, I said, “Are you here or do you live there now?” And in the dream he was so James, and he goes, “No, I’m not there.” He goes, “I didn’t go up.” But he goes, “Heaven’s coming down.” But when he said “down”, it just reverberated. I mean, it just blasted, and this host of Heaven, this host of Heaven, this heavenly choir came down just to invade the earth. And I believe that we are on the very, very brink of the greatest revival the earth has ever seen. I believe that.

 

SID: Me, too.

 

JULIE: I do.

 

SID: Me, too. You know what, I believe as Julie believes it’s strictly the mercy of God because I’ve read Revelation. I know what’s coming in the future and God does not want one person to not know him. You know, a lot of people say, well prayer, that’s for so many people at [unintelligible] it’s not for me. Why is prayer so important?

 

JULIE: Prayer is important for everyone. And we see it in Revelation 5:8, where the living creatures and the elders, they’re holding a harp and a bowl. And the harp is worship, but the bowl is the prayers of the saints, meaning Sid, your voice is there because prayers don’t die, bodies do. We can change the earth by praying. They ascend. John wrote it, “If they’re in the bowl,” our voices are there along with John Wesley and George Whitefield, because prayers never die. They’re before the Lord, continually.

 

SID: You were given by God four very special keys that you were supposed to release on this show.

 

JULIE: The key was to keep walking. It was Psalms 84: “If you’re in the Valley of Bakkah, don’t stop, stay steady, keep walking.” Number two, Philippians, it was, “Forgetting what lies behind.” It was delete, just press forward, forget what lies behind. And number three was Matthew 25, “It’s time to get oil.” And that’s just talking to him, singing to him, sing the Word, just keeping that relationship open with the Lord, having conversation with the Holy Spirit. The fourth one was singing the Word.

 

SID: I’m not a singer. What about, can someone sing that’s not a singer?

 

JULIE: Absolutely. We need to break that ceiling that singing is only for worshipers and singers. When you sing your brain actually functions as one. The different lobes are working together and you’re activating parts of your brain that you’ve never, ever used before. Therefore, bankers need to sing the Bible. Entrepreneurs need to sing because it expands places in your brain you’ve actually not used. And I think how creative is this of God because King David, it is said that he went to battle, went to war with a sword in his hand and a song on his lips. He sang his way to freedom and victory.

 

SID: Now you actually, in your own life, and you found many others that have understood what you teach and start doing to get the same results, you had a creative miracle. Tell me about that.

 

JULIE: I didn’t have this upper door. I had extreme acid reflux. I had all this yucky GERD in my stomach. It’s awful. And actually, I had two scopes in Kansas City. You know, I didn’t have this [door]. You have to stay on this medicine for the rest of your life. I get to Santa Maria. I sit in the healing room. I pray in the House of Prayer. I sing, “O Forever People,” the Bible. I go in for my scope a year ago, and I have my paperwork. And the doctor came back, and he goes. “You’re fine.” And I go, “Wait a minute.” I go, “But I don’t have a door.” He goes, “No, you do. You have one.” And he said, “Go off your medicine.” And I said, “Is my stomach?” And he goes, “Your stomach is fine.” And he goes, “Your body is healing itself.” And I said, “No, Jesus is healing, but it’s the power.” Amen. It’s the power of singing the Bible. It’s not just about singing, it’s what are we singing? The Word. The Word heals.

 

SID: Okay. He sent his Word and healed them. Julie, again, that’s you. But you tell me when you teach this, this is happening to others.

 

JULIE: It’s happening to others. A woman got a hold of me because she said, “I started singing the Word.” I always say sing Psalms because they’re already songs. She started singing the Word. And she was suicidal, and she said, “It broke.” And she said, “This is what I’ve been waiting for.” It’s a natural healant.

 

SID: I’m going to tell you what, Julie, I am going to release you right now to sing the Word. I want you to show us what we can be doing at home. But now, more important than that, I want you to do what God is telling you to do. Go for it, Julie.

 

JULIE: So right now all I’m doing is I have Psalm 103 opened in my Bible and I’m just simply making up a melody to it, and this is how we praise the Lord and this is how we get free and healed. [music, singing] And I praise the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me bless his holy, holy, holy name. And I bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me for I will not forget your benefits all that you’ve done, all that you did for me, God. Because you forgive all my sin and you heal everything, you heal everything, you heal everything. I won’t forget your benefits and you heal everything. You heal emotions, God, you heal depression, Jesus. You heal the body, God, you heal the heart. You heal every part of me. It’s what you do. And I, and I won’t forget.

SID: Kathie, you were doing some special recording for us a few weeks ago and God spoke to you. What did he show you?

 

KATHIE: The Glory is for everybody. It’s not just going to be for a few people on a platform, but the whole body, everybody is going to be operating in the Glory realm, in the supernatural and with the angels.

 

SID: What I’m hearing you say, people that are just spectators will start praying for friends and miracles of the magnitude you see on television will be happening to your next door neighbor.

 

KATHIE: Yes.

 

SID: So let me tell you about my friend Kathie. She doesn’t look it, but she ran off away from a nice Jewish guy in England, David, wanted to marry her. She runs off to Australia, gets involved with the Mafia. I mean, if she does it, she does it all the way. Gets involved with the Mafia and then has a radical encounter with God, and now she’s going to get killed because she’s going to leave the Mafia. But somehow she gets out, she marries David and she bumps into, I think this is fabulous, a real move of God’s Spirit. What happened?

 

KATHIE: Well we were in our very theological church. When I came back that’s where we were and we were theologized up to here. Suddenly, someone showed up that was filled with the Holy Spirit, and suddenly we ran smack into the Glory of God. We knew nothing. When we started to have meetings we didn’t know how to have a meeting. Everybody got filled with the Holy Spirit. People were coming from miles, from all over. We didn’t know what to do with them. Somebody said we should pray for them. We said, well what should we pray? And he said pray for them to prophesy. And we said, what’s tha? So anyway, we came into a tremendous move of the Glory of God. Why it was so awesome, I believe it’s because God used everybody.

 

SID: And you said that it took a while sitting in the Glory, but you lost your religious mindset. Explain that.

 

KATHIE: Yes. Well God, see, we were full of theology and God washed our minds probably for three years. We probably laughed for three years, actually, and he just washed our minds.

 

SID: Now by the way, natural medicine tells you that if you have cancer, if you see comedy shows and laugh it releases something in your body that heals. But they could have just looked at God’s Word, which says, “A merry heart is good medicine.”

 

KATHIE: Yes. But I think also the laughter is not just is good for you, the laughter actually is a warfare weapon because God looks at his enemies and what happens when the laughter comes is your spirit begins to pick up on a victory that’s happening in the Spirit realm, and then the laughter comes and brings it. Sometimes the angels play with you. You know, they push you around a little bit to make you lighten up. They want you to lighten up because heavy is not, the Holy Spirit is not heavy. If you want to live and be in the Spirit realm, you want to lose the heaviness because if it’s heavy it means it’s you. It actually says, “My yoke is easy, my burden is light and delightful.” It actually says “light and delightful” if you read it in the Greek. So his yoke is easy, his burden is light and delightful because he puts his desires in your heart. The religious spirit always makes you try and do something God has already done. He tries to make you own something Jesus already paid for. He already paid for everything, but the religious spirit always tries to make you qualify. But he’s already done it. He already paid everything. There’s nothing you can ask for that he hasn’t already paid for. What we have to do is receive it, embrace it and believe it. That’s it.

 

SID: You know what, as you’re speaking right now, Kathie, God is telling me that there are people that have pain in their fingers, and if you will move your fingers you’ll see that that pain is all gone. And Julie Meyer has been ushering people into the Glory of God for decades. Wait until you hear what God showed her about this particular program. She also has the best revelation I have ever heard for walking in God’s Glory. And I’m going to tell you, that one, she has a number, but that one is going to change your life. Be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I have three of what I consider the forerunners of the Glory of God that for years have been operating in the Glory. And I have asked them to team up together, and I believe there will be a synergy of release of miracles like we have never seen before in this show, now! Now my first guest David Herzog carries the ability to release the Glory of God and for miracles to take place. And as a matter of fact, I guess I’d have to say some of the wildest miracles that I’ve ever seen with my own eyes have taken place in the Glory that you release. But for starters, David, how would you, what is the Glory?

 

DAVID: The Glory is like if you went to Heaven, what would you be sensing, feeling, seeing? It’s the total manifest presence of God, Heaven on Earth. It’s the highest you can get in God.

 

SID: Tell us a few of things that you have seen take place in the Glory.

 

DAVID: It’s like if you went to Heaven right now, and even if you had a cancer you immediately would be healed because of the Glory.

 

SID: Of course.

 

DAVID: So when that Glory comes here we see amazing things. Even in Heaven, I believe if you’re bald, you’d probably have hair when you’re back up in Heaven.

 

SID: I’m going.

 

DAVID: We’ve seen bald heads growing hair because God is a creator. We’ve seen tattoos disappear off people. Recently in Jerusalem we had people growing taller.

 

SID: I can attest. I was at one of David’s meetings. There was a woman with grey hair, beautiful grey hair, seated right in front of me, and while I’m watching, it turns brown. I’m serious.

 

SID: A number of years ago you were what most young believers would be ecstatic over. He’s in France, he’s having revival meetings, he’s having signs and miracles happen, but there was kind of a discontent. What was going on inside of you?

 

DAVID: Well I had a six-month revival breakout in Paris, France, in 1998, but I felt like it was good. It was mostly anointing, and God was healing and delivering. But I felt there was another dimension of God’s Glory that I just didn’t have. I was preaching. I’d feel okay after. I just, that feeling like there’s got to be more. I’d read the Bible of Peter’s shadow healing the sick, the Glory cloud that Moses saw. So I feel like I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing some things, and I realize I was seeing a little bit of Acts, Chapter 2, but you know, they went out and healed the sick, but Acts 4, a whole different thing. And suddenly, I just started seeking his face. I quit meetings, I quit speaking, I pulled out of the revival. I was so hungry, which sounds crazy, and I knew there was more. And after a few months of seeking God, something new came and a whole new revival in my own life happened of the Glory and that just changed our whole ministry.

 

SID: You went to a meeting of a friend of mine who’s now in Heaven. Her name was Ruth Heflin. What happened at that meeting?

 

DAVID: Ruth Heflin was an amazing woman of God. I had heard about her, I had read her books. In fact, reading her books convinced me to pull out of the revival to see God. And after it was over, the six months, she invites me to come to her camp. So I was just through, to attend, so I went to attend. I was excited to go. I needed something new. And I get there, and she says, “You’re speaking tonight.” And I said, “No I’m not. I don’t want to hear myself speak. I want something fresh.” “I’m a prophetess,” she said. “You’re speaking tonight.” I go, “No I’m not.” She goes, “Yes you are.” And she had that laugh, ha, ha, that laugh she had. And so I thought, all right, that’s not what I came for. So I got up, okay, I’m going to preach, and she sits there like she always did, and she knew, and she saw the angels, and the Glory hit me. I sang my sermon. I don’t do that. I went, [singing] Arise and shine for the light. [speaking] I thought, what is going on here? I was looking at myself going, what are you doing? I was completely wasted. For two hours I sang the whole Isaiah 60-61, signs and wonders started falling, gold teeth, gold dust, miracles. There were tumors disappearing, there were healings, deliverances, and I had gold all over me. And I said, what is going on? But it wasn’t about the signs. I got back to my room and I felt like I had died and gone to Heaven. The Glory was so thick. And I thought maybe tomorrow it will lift. It never lifted. Three days, a week, a month, it was like I got saved again. It was like, wow, every day, it was just like, oh you’re here. It had nothing to do with ministry anymore. I was in a whole new experience with God I didn’t even know existed. I thought I knew the Anointing, you read, you preach, you pray, you read your Bible, you do your thing. It was a whole different thing. It was a new lifestyle with God. I didn’t care anymore about if I preached or I ministered or I didn’t, if I was known or unknown. I didn’t care about anything. I just wanted to keep that presence close to me.

 

SID: If someone isn’t and they’re being honest, they say I love God, but I’m not desperate, what do we do?

 

DAVID: What you do is you say, God, help me in my not being desperate, kind of like Thomas said, “You know, I have unbelief.” Okay, help me in my unbelief. So if you’re being honest, God, I want to be more hungry. And there’s times in my life where I wasn’t as hungry as I should be and I’d see others, and I’d say, “God, make me desperate like that person.” And I would get hungry again. So ask and ye shall receive.

 

SID: And you know what, you had the impartation, you have the prayer. Would you look in the camera and lead people in that prayer. I’m going to say it right along with you right now.

 

DAVID: I’ll do it right now. So if you’re watching right now and you’re desperate, you’re like, that’s me, I want more of God. I want the Glory or I want to be desperate, I don’t know how to be, just pray right now. You can close your eyes, lift your hands. And I just pray right now for those watching all over the world that are desperate for God, whether you’re a believer or unbeliever, a Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, European, African, doesn’t matter what you are, what you believe, I pray the desperateness for God and for his Glory to come on you right now in Jesus’ name. I pray the presence, the Kabod, the Glory, the weightiness of God will come upon you in Yeshua’s name and the hunger would come. You would be so desperate and hungry for God, and that will start to attract the Glory of God in your life right now in Jesus’ name.

 

SID: Okay. Kathie Walters recently saw a vision that is for everyone. That means you.

JOHN:  Yes, he led Egypt out of the audience, that’s what we’re doing right now! (laughter) I got a, when Moses led Israel out of Egypt where was their destination. Everybody say it really loud.

 

AUDIENCE:                 The Promised Land!

 

JOHN:  The Promised Land. No. What did Moses say to Pharaoh, what did Moses say to Pharaoh over and over again. “Thus saith the Lord: Let my people go that they might worship me in the desert.” Why do you want to bring them out of Egypt into the Promised Land without first bringing them to the “Promiser? Okay, if you bring the children of Israel out of Egypt into the Promised Land without first bringing them to the Promiser, you’re going to, you’re going to get a bunch of people that are going to make the Promised Land into a place of idolatry.

 

AUDIENCE:                 Wow, that’s good.

 

JOHN:  Okay? This is what we did in the 80’s and the 90’s in the church. We preached more of what Jesus would do for us rather than who He is. So we spawned disciples that started seeking God for what He can do for me not who He is, right, and that’s like a woman who marrying a man because he’s got a lot of money. She marries him out of love but for the wrong reasons. You see I find something so amazing. I look at Israel. Israel is abused by Egypt. Correct? They live in the slums, they eat the worst, wear the worst, they’re working all their lives to build somebody else’s inheritance. Their children are put to death by the Egyptians. They come out of Egypt and they’re constantly saying: “Let’s go back to Egypt, it was better for us.” But then I look at Moses. Now think about Moses. He’s raised in the most beautiful home on the planet “cause his grandfather Pharaoh is the wealthiest man in the whole planet. So that means he’s got a Maserati, he’s probably got a Lamborghini, he’s probably got a Porsche, he’s probably got an Audi, the top of the line Audi, he’s probably got every Harley in the collections, he’s got every “I-” this and “ I-” that. He’s got assistants. He can have any woman he wants in the whole nation and can even ask for other nations because he’s a prince. But he comes out of Egypt and he never once says “I want to go back to Egypt, it’s better for me back in Egypt.” And what’s the difference? He had one encounter with God face-to-face at that bush. Israel had a chance when he came down on the mountain. You see you have to remember, the burning bush was at Mount Sinai. So what Moses wants to do is he wants to bring these people straight to the One that he met at the bush. Because getting in to the presence of God, that took away his appetite from the world forever! He never, ever said “I want to go back to Egypt.” Now remember Egypt is a “type” [symbol] of the world. His appetite for the world was gone, because he had one encounter with God. You see we’re always trying to get people to pray a formula “sinner’s prayer” at churches. And don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to make a movement of people saying “well, you know that’s not what we’re going to do.” But what one thing I’m saying is that we should add on to that is why don’t we give the Holy Spirit time to minister in the presence of God to them so that now all of a sudden they’ve tasted the heavenly gift? Okay? Moses tasted, he saw, he tasted at the burning bush. He said I’ve gotta bring these people out there. So he brings them out to that mountain. God says, all right, Moses, you tell them the whole reason I brought you out of Egypt was to bring you to myself. Go look it up in Exodus 19, it’s amazing. The whole reason I brought them out of Egypt was to bring them to myself. It’s in there. Read it. It’s amazing. So He says I’m so excited I’m going to come down there and introduce myself to ‘em on the third day. So get ‘em ready the next two days and the third day I’m going to come down, which is prophetic, and I’m not going to go into that. So Moses gets them all ready, they wash their clothes, God comes down on the mountain and what do they do? They all run away, and they say Moses, we can’t handle God. You talk to God, tell us whatever he says, we’re going to hear and do it. And that’s amazing to me, right? And so Moses is heart-broken. And so his response to the people is Exodus 20:20, where He says, “Do not fear,” now look at me, do not fear because God’s come to test you. What’s the test? To see if His fear is in you so that you may not sin. Wait a minute. Do not fear, because God’s come to test you to see if His fear is in you so that you may not sin. He’s not contradicting himself, he’s differentiating between being scared of God and the fear of the Lord. As I said earlier, the person who fears God, well the person who’s scared of God, I should say it this way, has something to hide. That’s why Adam hides from the presence of the Lord. Okay? But the person who fears God has nothing to hide. Okay? They’re scared to be away from God. So the first definition of the fear of the Lord is to be terrified of being away from Him. You know I’ll never forget, back in the 1990’s, it was 1994, Jim Bakker had read a book that I had written called “Victory in the Wilderness,” it was the first book I had ever written. He read it in prison. He had been in prison for 4 years. When he read it he contacted his assistant from prison and he said    could you please find this author and ask him to come visit me in prison. So I remember I agree to do it. And I walked into the prison and he comes out in his prison garb and grabs me and he holds me and he hugs me and he won’t let me go. Finally he grabs my shoulders and he said “Did you write it or a ghost writer?” I said, “No sir, I wrote it. I’ve gone through a wilderness but not near what you’ve gone through.” He said “We have so much to talk about. Sit down.” And I remember he looked at me and he said this prison was not God’s judgment on my life, it was his mercy on my life. He said because John, honestly, if I would have kept living the way I was living I would have ended up in hell forever. When he said that to me I thought, okay, you have my attention, complete, total attention. So after about 20 minutes I felt very, very comfortable with him and I thought I’m going to ask him some questions. My first question was “Jim, when did you fall out of love with Jesus?” At what point did you stop loving Jesus? Because You have to understand as a little boy I grew up in Whitehall Michigan which was 15 minutes away from where he pastored in Muskegon Michigan. So I said, “When did you stop loving Jesus, how’d it happen?”  And he looked at me and he said “I didn’t.” What? What do you mean you didn’t fall out of love with Jesus? I said, Jim, you committed adultery with Jessica Hahn, you did all this mail fraud, all this stuff you’re in jail for. What do you mean you didn’t fall out of love with Jesus? And I’m perplexed and he sees I’m perplexed. And he looked right at me and he said, “I didn’t fear God.” And he said, “There’s millions of Americans just like me. They love Jesus, but they don’t fear God.” You see, you have to understand the New Testament teaches that He is Abba, Daddy. But the same New Testament says He’s the consuming fire. Okay? So you have to understand something. If you don’t have the love of God and you don’t have the fear of God you’re going to end up in a rut. How many of you know that Jesus said the road to life is a narrow road? Right? How many of you know that every road’s got two ditches on both sides? Right? So the first ditch is called “legalism.” Now the church in the 1960’s was in a legalistic ditch. Now I wasn’t a Christian back in the 60’s, I didn’t saved until “79. But let me tell you something, I saw the remnants of this legalistic move. Because women would wear their hair up in a bun remember, they didn’t cut their hair and wore it up in a big bun, and they didn’t wear any make-up, and they had dresses down to their ankles. You know you can have a dress down to your ankles, you can have your hair up in a bun, you can have no make-up but still have a seducing spirit up to your eyeballs. Okay? That’s not holiness. Okay? So it was all about an outward form to try to hide a deficiency that was in our hearts and we were in legalism. Right? So what happened in the 60’s? God brings a revelation to the church. You know what the revelation was, he used one man to do it. God is a good God, and something good can happen to you. The man was Oral Roberts, right? And then the Charismatic move began. Right? And we found out our Daddy loved us. What did the love of God do? It delivered us from the ditch of legalism. But you know what we did? We said I went so far from that ditch I’ll never fall in again and we went to the other side of the road and fell into that other ditch. And the other ditch is called lawlessness or lasciviousness, which is an excessive, fleshly, worldly, disobedient lifestyle. And God’s given us a force that keeps us, keeps us out of that ditch. It’s called the fear of the Lord. So you see it takes the love of God and the fear of God to keep us healthy. Okay? It’s like two sides of a coin, you got heads and tails, if you don’t have tails you don’t have a coin, you need ‘em both. And so when we understand that God is Abba, Daddy, but He’s also the King, He’s also the consuming fire we understand that yes, we can jump in His lap, there are times for that but then there’s other times, let me tell you, I didn’t feel it was the time to jump in His lap when He came into Brazil like He did. You understand what I’m talking about.   When I was in Malaysia and those girls, those women were getting baptized in fire. That’s just not a time you’re jumping in his lap. And so there is a right way to understand that God is so much greater and more complex than our simple little, well He’s Daddy and here’s grace and it doesn’t matter how you live you’re going to get to heaven. That is a complete lack of the fear of the Lord. And you see if you’ve got the fear of the Lord, Paul says, it will perfect holiness. We work out our salvation, in the New Testament it says, with fear and trembling. If you look at the church in the earlyÖ in the Book of Acts, you know what? They were all drunk on the Day of Pentecost. I mean they were experiencing Daddy’s love, so they got a little too familiar, they got a little bit loose, and so now this couple who’s in good standing, they’re members of the Church of Jerusalem bring up an offering and it’s a big offering, it’s a big chunk of the land they just sold, and they lay it at Peter’s feet, and the next thing you know they’re dead. And if you read in Acts, chapter 5, verse 11, it says “So great fear came upon the church.” Not upon the city. Yes, it said somewhere else great fear came upon all those who heard these things. Great fear came upon the CHURCH! So what is the fear of the Lord? So first of all it is to be terrified to be away from Him. The person who fears God doesn’t say how close can I get to the line of sin and not fall in. The person who fears God says I want to be so far away, so close to Dad, so close to my Daddy, that I’m so close to Him I can’t even see that line of sin. Okay? That’s the attitude they have. You understand what I’m saying, they’re not saying how close can I get and not, and not fall in. What is it to fear God? It is to venerate Him. That’s a big word which means to honor, to respect, to esteem, to value, to reverence, to stand in awe of Him more than anything or anyone else. We firmly embrace God’s heart so we love what He loves, we hate what He hates, what is important to Him becomes important to us, what is not so important to Him is not so important to us. Remember Jesus said there are weightier matters. Are you with me? What is the evidence that somebody truly has the fear of God in their life? Okay? Now remember, the Holy Spirit, one of His manifestations is the fear of the Lord. Remember He’s the Spirit of wisdom, the Spirit of counsel, the Spirit of might, the Spirit of understanding, the Spirit of knowledge, and the Spirit of the dear of the Lord and Jesus delighted in the fear of the Lord. What is the evidence that somebody truly has the fear of the Lord in their life? Okay? Well, number one, they reverence His presence. I talked about that in Brazil. But the second thing that you see in their life is they tremble at His Word. Do you know how the Bible talks about trembling at His word? What does it means to tremble at His word. Number one it means that you’ll obey Him instantly. Okay? Huh? I, I still see some looks and I want to make sure you’re really clear, [and] you who are watching this video. When I say what is the evidence of the fear of the Lord, let’s put it to you like this way: let’s say I’ve got an outlet and I want to know is there, is that outlet is it live or is it dead? Well if I put a brand new blow dryer in and it’s a working blow dryer in that outlet and I turn the switch on and hot air starts blowing, that’s evidence that that is a good outlet. Correct?

 

AUDIENCE:                 Yes. That’s right.

SID:                 It ‘s like going to a football game!

 

JOHN:  Yeah! So I’m sitting there going “this’ll calm down.” Well it doesn’t! They get through with the praise and worship and the leader comes up and starts reading out of the Bible. I’m still seeing people sitting there looking around, people looking down like this, people are whispering to one another, and you can actually hear “em mutter from the people whispering to one another. Now I’m angry, okay? I mean I am really angry. So they introduce me. First time I’ve ever spoken in Brazil, 1996, publically. I walk up, I walked up to the podium with my interpreter right beside me. And I just put my elbow on the podium and I just sat there and stared at “em and didn’t say a word. Now, now, now picture this, okay? Friday night, national conference, the guest speaker’s introduced and he’s just glaring at you for 45 seconds!

 

SID:                 Not too cool!

 

JOHN: That gets people’s attention, right! So when I knew every eye in the whole auditorium was on me, this is the first words in public I’ve ever said in Brazil, I said I have two questions. Question number one: you’re sitting across the table talking to somebody and the whole time you’re talking to them they got their hands in their pocket looking around like this, or they’re looking down like this, or they’re whispering to somebody sitting beside them, next to them at the table. I said, “Will you continue to talk to them?’

 

SID:                 No.

 

JOHN:  They said, “No,” right. I said, “What if every time I go,  you go over to somebody’s house and you knock on their door and they open up the door and they go, “Oh, it is you, again. Come in.” I said, “Will you continue to go to that house?” They went, “No.” So I said, “I’ve been in this auditorium for an hour and a half and I have, or an hour, and I have not felt one ounce of the presence of God.” And I said the reason is He’ll never come into an atmosphere where He’s not held in the utmost of respect. I said if Pele you’re, well first of all I said if your President, the President of Brazil would have walked onto this platform tonight he would have gotten ten times the respect you gave the Holy Spirit. You, you would have listened to every word he said, you would have given him your attention. I said if Pele would have walked on, Pele’s the greatest soccer player ever in Brazil, would have walked on this, out on this platform, you would have been on the edge of your seats!

 

SID:                 Of course.

 

JOHN:  Okay? I said you’ve given no respect to the Holy Spirit. So I speak to them for 75 minutes on the fear of the Lord. At the end of that, now this is amazing what I am about to tell you. I said every person in here, you say you’re born again but you lack the fear of God, stand up, and you’re willing to repent, stand up. 75 percent of the whole auditorium stands up. Now this is what’s amazing. The moment they stand up the presence of God comes in. First time in two hours. And people are weeping, right? So it lasts a few minutes and it lifts. And the Holy Spirit speaks to me and says lead them in a prayer of repentance. So I led them in a simple prayer of repentance. Forgive me for my lack of reverence, for Your presence, Your work. All of a sudden another wave of His presence comes in. It’s even stronger, lasts 3 or 4 minutes. It lifts. So now we’re all there and the Holy Spirit speaks to me and He says I’m coming one last time. Now what I’m about to tell you I got emails on this 8 years after it happened. Okay? The only way I know how to describe what happened is you’re at the end of a runway and a Boeing Jet’s taking off right in front of you. That kind of a sound of a violent wind came blowing in to that auditorium. When it did, the people started screaming. Now can you imagine thousands of Latinos screaming? You know how loud that would be. The wind was louder. So that same thing that happened in Malaysia happened to me there. I’m like, “Oh my God!” There are like goose bumps on my goose bumps. And I’m standing there frozen, and I’m like “Whooooa…..” because it’s awesome! …what’s going on, and terrifying. And I remember it lasted for about 90 seconds and it left in its wake people collapsed on the chairs, people weeping and I’m like, “God, what do I do? And the Lord’s like, “I’m through with you.” (laughing) So I turned and I looked at the leader and I said “It’s all yours.” So he comes up, they walk me out into the car. And the singer, the national singer and her husband get in the car. She screams, I mean literally, you know how passionate Brazilians are, “Did you hear the wind!?” And I said, now I didn’t want to say it, I said, “Maybe it was a jet airplane flying right over the building.”

 

AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)

 

JOHN:  And she got angry at me. She said, (yelling) “What are you talking about? I saw fire all around the building.” And her husband’s a lot more analytical and quieter. He quieted her down, he said, “Sir, that wasn’t a jet airplane above the building. I said, “How do you know?” He said because there were union security men all around the outside the building. He said most of them aren’t even saved. He said when the wind started blowing they came running in to see what was going on and they started saying to our leaders “what’s going on?” He said I was at the sound board, because I had to check the levels for my wife. He said the decimal beaters were at zero the whole time the wind blew. It was 90 seconds the wind blew. He said “not one ounce of the sound came through our sound system.” I said, “My God, take me to my hotel room.’

 

AUDIENCE AND SID:             (LAUGHTER)

 

JOHN:  No kidding, I didn’t even go out to eat that night. And I remember I just sat on my balcony and worshipped until 1:30 in the morning. And so you’ll never find the Lord in an atmosphere where He’s not held with the utmost respect.

 

SID:                 ÖI want to ask you to do something.

 

JOHN:  Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

 

SID:                 I would like you to speak just a little while on the fear of the Lord and then lead us in repentance. Would you do that, John? Thank you.

 

AUDIENCE:                 (CLAPPING)

 

JOHN:  Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. So, what, what is the fear of the Lord? All right. Let me say this. And I’m, I’m going to say to you tonight, I’m going to repeat some things I just said on this program because I need to lay a foundation again. What is the fear of the Lord is NOT to be scared of God. And as I said, when Moses led Israel out of Egypt, and let me ask you as an audience, when Moses led Egypt out of the audience, or out of, excuse me.

 

AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)

SID: I am going to take this wonderful opportunity to ask a couple of questions to John Bevere that I’ve really wanted to hear from him the answers. John, you said something when I interviewed you on television. You said there was a season in your life where you were praying in the Holy Spirit two hours every day. But then you made a switch and tell me what the switch was and the results that happened.

 

JOHN:  The switch was, I kept, if I’m, if I’m remembering, I’m going back to our radio interview. I was praying everyday “God use me.” Use me to win multitudes to Jesus, use me to cast out demons, use me to heal the sick people, use me to restore people’s lives, restore marriages. And I was praying this way for years. And one day the Holy Spirit spoke to me, and He said, “Your prayers are off.” And I said, “What!” He said, “Your prayer are off target.” And I said I’m asking you to use me win multitudes to Jesus, to heal people, to heal marriages, to heal bodies. How can they be off? And He said this to me, He said, “Judas cast our devils, Judas healed the sick, Judas preached repentance, Judas led people to me,” because when He sent the 12 out He sent the 12 out. He said, “Judas left everything he had to follow me.” He said, “Judas is in hell.”

 

SID:                 Uh!!

 

JOHN:  When He said that to me, I literally started trembling inside. I said, “Then what should I be praying?” And then He said to me, “What Paul prayed: that I might know Him.” And so those who know their God will be strong and do exploits. So He said, “You can use me.” He said, “I don’t use people. I transform them into the image of My son.”

 

AUDIENCE:                 Mmmm, huh!

 

JOHN: I mean can you just see me coming into my, or my wife coming in to me and saying, “John, use me to make babies for you! (pleading) I want to make babies, Ohhh, I want to make babies. Give me babies or I’m going to die!

 

SID:                 Ha!

 

AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)

 

JOHN: Okay, so what would I look at my wife and say? Oh my gosh, who did I marry! Okay? (Sid and audience laugh) But we’re intimate and out of our intimacy came four really great boys. And He said, “I want you intimate with me.” So my whole prayer started changing. “God, I want to know You intimately. I want to know You intimately. I want to know You like You know me.” Well you know what’s interesting? This was back in 1984-85. And in this time period when I started changing my prayer, I started getting free. I was bound to pornography and here I was in the ministry. And I asked Lester Sumrall to pray for me. I opened up to him, I said, “I’m bound, will you pray for me?” He prayed a very strong prayer and nothing happened. Nine months later I’m on a four day fast, and May the 6st, 1985 I get completely delivered from pornography. Okay? So I’m walking in my freedom a couple a years and I said to God, I said, “I don’t get it.” I mean I humbled myself. I asked one of the strongest men of God I know on the planet to get me delivered, and I don’t get delivered. And then nine months later I’m on this fast and I get delivered.     And the Lord showed me that what I was praying, I was praying that “God use me, God use me” and I was afraid that pornography was going to keep me to the preaching ministry I know I was called to. He said, “But then you changed your prayers and you said I want to know you, I want to know you intimately. And He said, “You had sorrow, but your sorrow was worldly when you opened up with Dr. Sumrall.”  He said, “Nine months later your sorrow was godly because your heart was breaking because you knew your sin was breaking My heart.” So if you look at the difference you can see it in two kings. Saul says, “I’ve sinned, I’ve sinned.” But he’s embarrassed, so he says “Now honor me by worshipping with me in front of my elders.” You’ve embarrassed me in front of my elders. David, when he gets nailed, falls on his face and said “I have sinned and against You only I have sinned.” He couldn’t care less what his elders thought. So that’s the difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow.          Godly sorrow the focus is on Him, worldly sorrow the focus is on what’s going to happen to me. And when we pray that we can know Him intimately, that we can please Him the best a man or woman can please Him, now it’s all about this relationship over everything else and that’s what pleases the heart of God. See Psalm 89, verse 7 says:  “God is to be greatly feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be held in reverence by all those who surround him.” So you’ll never find the presence God in an atmosphere where He’s not held in the utmost of respect. I remember when I learned this experientially. Back in 1996, I was asked to speak in Brazil, the nation of Brazil. There were thousands of people at this conference, it was a national conference. I’m the Friday night speaker. They drive me to the auditorium. There’s cars parked everywhere. And as I come into the auditorium I can hear the worship coming from the inside of the building. Because in their big auditoriums down there, if they have a ceiling on it, there’s like a six foot gap between the upper wall and the ceiling, and it’s for air ventilation but you can hear what’s going on inside. So they walk me in, they put me on the platform. There’s not a seat open anywhere. Thousands of Brazilians, right? So there’s no presence of God. There’s no presence of God in the whole auditorium. Now when I say this Sid, as we know there are 2 types of the presence of God. There is the “omnipresence” of God. That is where David said “where can I go from your presence? If I go to the highest mountain you’re there, if I make my bed in the lowest valley you’re there.” That’s the presence of God that says “I’ll never leave you nor forsake you.” That’s the omnipresence of God. The other presence of God the Bible speaks about is the “manifest presence” of God. “Manifest” is to bring from the unseen into the realm of the seen, the unheard into the realm of the heard, the unknown into the realm of the known. It’s when God reveals Himself to our senses. Okay? That is a very real experience in Christianity.   Jesus said, “I will manifest Myself to you,” right? So that presence was totally void in thatÖ and I’m sitting there going “this is a believer’s conference.” Place is packed, best worship leaders in the nation, why is there no presence!? So I asked the Lord, I said, “God, why is there no presence?” And all of a sudden God open up my eyes and I’m looking at the people. And they’re standing there with their hands in their pocket looking around like this, they got their arms crossed looking down like this, they’re whispering to one another, they’re fumbling through their purses, and they’re walking in and out of this auditorium getting concession stand stuff, okay?

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be so filled with the supernatural love of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that it will literally radiate out of every pore of your body and just reach out and touch that person that’s so broken and so hurting, and so thirsty for that love. I’ve got on the telephone Kevin Howard, Kevin is a Hebraic scholar and a Bible teacher. He’s written a book which I find fascinating. It’s called “The Feasts of the Lord” it’s hardback book with a 150 full color photographs and paintings and charts so you can visualize what each of these Biblical festivals are. As a matter of fact something else that I find very interesting, there are other festivals besides the 7 that are commanded in the scriptures and many of them Yeshua celebrated. But one in particular is a Jewish festival with a very sad day, it commemorates the destruction of the temple, but isn’t it amazing that on that precise date many events have happened in Jewish history. I have on the telephone Kevin Howard, I’m speaking to him at his home in Cincinnati. Kevin would you talk a bit about Tish b’Av?

Kevin: Sure I’d be glad to Sid. Tish b’Av is a holiday I’m sure most believers have never even heard of unless they have a Jewish background, or live in a Jewish community. But Tish b’Av is a holiday that occurs in the late summer usually in the summer heat months, late July or in August. Tish b’Av actually as you mentioned is mentioned in the Bible in the book of Zechariah it’s called the “Fast of the 5^th month.” It is a fast very somber holiday which commemorates or observes, bemoans the fact of the 1^st and 2^nd temples being destroyed. 586 BC the Babylonians came in and destroyed the great Solomonic 1^st temple, and then in 70 AD the Romans destroyed the 2^nd temple, the mighty magnificent beautiful temple that Herod had remodeled and was there in the time of Christ. The temples, both temples were destroyed on the same day so it was… it marks the ultimate tragedy of the nation of Israel, the temples being destroyed. But as you mentioned many other things, tragedies, have happened on that date throughout history. For example several years later in AD 135 Bar Kokhba who was trying to lead a rebellion to throw off Roman rule he was… his rebellion was crushed on that day and any hope of Jewish independence was snuffed out for another 1800 years. It was the last attempt to gain independence to rebuild the temple but it was not to be and snuffed out on the same day the temples were destroyed. As well as in 1290 AD one of the greatest tragedies of all times for the modern Jewish community was that’s when the Inquisition started. That marked the end of Jews… I’m sorry of Jews in England being kicked out as well as a few hundred years later in 1492 the Spanish Inquisition started and Jews were pushed out of Spain.  They either had to convert forcibly to Catholicism, or were pushed out of the country…

Sid: Isn’t it amazing all these tragic events in Jewish history occurred on the same date. By the way, isn’t it an interesting year in Spain 1492, does it remind you of a poem about Christopher Columbus sailing the ocean blue in 1492? Many people believe especially from his diaries are pretty much convinced that Christopher Columbus was Jewish and that’s why he left, that was the date the Jews had to leave Spain.

Kevin: That’s very interesting isn’t it? We remember the great events of 1492 but oft time we negate the tragedies of the great inquisition. That marked the end really of the golden age of the Jewish community in Spain, really the renaissance of that community was gone with the inquisition. But as you mentioned Tish b’Av was a day of great tragedy throughout history.

Sid: It’s a… understand the great day of persecution of Jewish merchants in Germany under Hitler, Kristallnacht.

Kevin: Right.

Sid: That was the same day too.

Kevin: That was in what 1938 a tremendously you know a day in infamy. We think of Japan but it was a great day of violence against Jewish people here just in our own country.

Sid: Well we were talking earlier this week about the 3 major festivals that are coming, actually the first one begins this Friday evening that’s why I’m featuring this book and interviewing you, and that is Rosh Hashanah. Would you tell me a bit about that as you do in your book from a Biblical and historical viewpoint, then how it’s done modern, and the prophetic significance?

Kevin: Sure Sid. The Feast of Trumpets is known today as Rosh Hashanah. So sometimes people are confused they hear Rosh Hashanah they don’t connect that it’s Biblically what was known as the Feast of Trumpets. But Rosh Hashanah is a Hebrew word for Head of the Year. Today that marks really the celebration of the Jewish New Year, the new civil year, but Biblically it was known as Trumpets. Actually in the Bible it was never called the Feast of Trumpets and it was never called Rosh Hashanah, but it was simply called… the 5^th holiday was simply called A Memorial or a Day of Blowing as in blowing the trumpet. So popularly today we speak of it as the Feast of Trumpets or as Rosh Hashanah the beginning of the new civil year. I find the Feast of Trumpets very fascinating because it celebrates only one thing the blowing of the trumpets as far as Biblically.

Sid: It is kind of… the more modern approach when it was changed to the Head of the Year etcetera, but that Biblical thing is all God’s concerned about.

Kevin: Yes that’s correct. The list of, you know Biblical record for observances wasn’t lengthy and it wasn’t complicated, the day was simply to be celebrated blowing the trumpet and a day of no work, it was Sabbath of rest.

Sid: You know something I’m suggesting when I speak many times, and I really believe God would be pleased, that is for Christians to understand our Jewish roots, and understand the Biblical precedence for the festivals, understand the way they used to be observed, understand the way they are observed today, understand the prophetic significance, and then look at the scriptures for yourself and say “Holy Spirit how would You like this festival which is a shadow of a great event of what has happened or will happen in the future life of the Messiah. How would it be pleasing for us to worship You this year?” You see one of the things coming from a traditional Jewish background that I used to get bored with really is same old same old, have it the same way every year not one change. I mean God is bigger, God is fresher and there’s revelations the Spirit of God will give you on these festivals and they are meant for families. If we know one thing in our society both political parties are even talking about this is we need family values we need families to come together. I personally believe that’s why God designed these Biblical festivals for families.

Kevin :I agree with you Sid. God as we mentioned on an earlier broadcast God appointed them and they were to bring the nation together, they were to gather families together, and they were appointments with God Himself. So these are not just dry observances or…

Sid: But they’ve become that in traditional Judaism by doing the same ol’ same ol’ without the Ruach haKodesh, the Spirit of God, over almost over 2000 years but God wants to revitalize them. You know what I’m thinking of Romans 11:11 it says “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.” Now what’s going to provoke a Jew to Jealousy? Having a family Passover meal and inviting some of your Jewish friends, or having Easter bunnies and an Easter egg from pagan vestiges? I mean give me a break (laughing)!

Kevin: (Laughing)

Sid: So tell me a bit more about what’s coming up this Friday night, Rosh Hashanah.

Kevin: Well as far as a modern observance of Rosh Hashanah it’s a, it’s sort of a bitter-sweet, it’s a very somber time because it begins the high holy days. In the synagogue it’s a beginning of times of concentrating on repentance and past years sins, and just repenting and it’s very somber in that sense. Along with that a tradition has risen in the past 2000 years that in rabbinic tradition it’s taught that on Rosh Hashanah, on this Friday night, that God opens 3 books in heaven, 3 great books. One is a book for the righteous, one is book for the wicked, and one is the book of life for those in between.  According to rabbinic tradition during the high holy days that is from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur, or the Day of Atonement, those 10 days people’s welfare or their destiny for the year hangs in the balances. Those who are righteous God immediately writes them in the book of life for the righteous. Those who are wicked they are written in the book of the wicked and they will not continue to live for the next year. Those who are in the book of the in between have 10 days, according to Jewish tradition, from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur to repent. If they truly repent and turn to God on Yom Kippur God gives them graciously another year to live.

Sid: I remember from the traditional synagogue those were serious times those 10 days because it was a question of whether you were going to live or die and by repenting of our sins we would live.

Kevin: Yeah.

Sid: So these were very… that’s why they’re called the high holidays.

Kevin: Right. In fact it’s not a joyous time at all. There’s no weddings during that time, there’s no parties, there’s no joyous activities at all during those 10 days. It really harkens back to the days of the temple where, which we’ll talk about in a later broadcast how on Yom Kippur the high priest would go into the temple and they would have a covering, or sacrifices for the sins of the people, but it would be dealt with sins of the past year. So…

Sid: Well Kevin we’re out of time.

Sid:  I have on the telephone Mrs. Ella Brunt and if anyone’s been red hot for the Messiah it’s got to be Ella. She was in just an amazing accident. She was out on a sailboat with her 2 children a little 8 year old and a 6 year old Cody. Cody gets knocked into the water, the sailboat turns over and they can’t find him he’s under the water 10 minutes go by they finally find him. He’s dead they apply CPR and the water gushes out of his and they take a helicopter in and they take him to the hospital. She goes… she drives to the hospital still in her bathing suit her husband wasn’t with them. He didn’t even know he goes home from work because she couldn’t reach him he was in between work and going home. He turns on the answering machine, which he never does, this is how he finds out what happened to his son. As he’s driving to the hospital God gives him a game plan exactly what to do. He didn’t know it at the time nor did Ella know at the time that the doctors wrote Cody off they thought there was no chance literally. They thought he had brain damage and so the game plan. Tell me what God told your husband you should do Ella.

Ella:  Okay he said that we would only speak faith filled words and we would only speak the desired end result that Cody would walk out that hospital 100% restored and that we would guard Cody from anybody that would come around that could not do that. We would guard the situation. In fact we really just wanted to create an atmosphere around Cody that would be conducive for a miracle.

Sid:  You also said your husband instructed everyone to say only what they desired not what they were seeing with their eyes.

Ella:  Right he said that he would walk out a 100% and that was the desired end result. The only thing we would speak about the situation and even though medical reports were coming that his lungs were hemorrhaging, that they couldn’t stop it, he had irreversible brain damage, he had no pain reflex at all, no deep pain reflex. Everything was negative coming from the medical standpoint but we didn’t allow that to be the final word that the word of God was what we were standing on that if Jesus performed miracles in the Bible that we could also have it and we were claiming our miracle.

Sid:  Now at the same time did Cody ever regain consciousness while this was going on?

Ella:  No in fact they had the… the only way they knew how to treat the hemorrhaging of the lungs they first of all wanted to try this before they tried the experimental drugs. That was to have the incubator, the breathing machine, up so high that the pressure would actually try to close those capillaries and things that were hemorrhaging. It was a day or before we started seeing the lung situation come around. We would speak to those lungs and literally just say that those lungs would have to stop bleeding that they would become normal and function properly. So every medical report that came to us we would speak it into a positive that his brain would be normal and there would be no damage and that he would walk and he would run. All these sort of things we would speak to our mountain…

Sid:  When you looked at your son Cody describe what you saw with your eyes the equipment around him.

Ella:  Okay he was only 6 years old and he had pretty blond hair and he was just on these white sheets in this hospital room. He was in PICU ward, actually his bed was kind of out in the open and there were other kind of compartments in there and later on I asked why he was out here kind of open and not in one of those little more private areas. The nurse “Well we really didn’t think he would make it and that whenever he’s open like that we can pull in more equipment and be able to work on him.” I thought “My goodness he’s got so many machines on him now” but I found that out just a couple of days later after he was admitted in. So he’s got all the IV’s and all the… they immediately started antibiotics to combat the infection, the pneumonia that they knew would set in after a couple of days, and it did. Then on the right side of his bed was the ventilator which actually breathed for him. There was no movement he had catheters in his veins and arteries and his legs which that was a procedure that they did in the ICU room and it took about 2 hours. It was really a surgical procedure that night, the first night. So we had… it’s set up to where a nurse friend of mine would call the nurse’s station every morning before the new morning shift would come on and find out the medical status of Cody. Then she would call me in and put it in layman’s language and I’d write it down and we would contact the church and let them know what to pray for that day. Yes these are the medical situations that he’s facing and to pray specifically for that those were prayer targets that we targeted in prayer even though they were on his body at the time those were symptoms and that they had to reverse and leave. His body… we could see probably within a week and half that things were starting to turn around. Really during the day…

Sid:  Now was he in a coma?

Ella:  Right. He wasn’t talking, he wasn’t moving and at one point they actually had to give him paralyzing medication so he wouldn’t move in case he did wake up or whatever because the ventilator pressure were so high if he did move that he could even blow out a lung.

Sid:  Now what’s going on with your faith and your husband’s faith as time is going by?

Ella:  We, thank God, we were allowed to stay by his bed all hours of the morning and night. So we pretty much did that. We had a cassette running with teaching tapes or music or whatever all the time just creating an atmosphere there. Ted and I would only help build up each other. If we saw the one kind of getting down or discouraged we would just speak scriptures, find scriptures, we would whenever the nurses take a changeover we go to the hospital chapel. I’d get on the piano and play choruses and sing. I imagine that looked kind of funny in their video cameras, but anyway we went there and built ourselves up during that break of time that we had that nobody was permitted in there. We had to keep ourselves built up too by just getting into the word of God and finding scriptures to stand on…

Sid:  Now after about a week something strange happened to his legs tell me about that.

Ella:  I was in there one morning and they were cleaning him up and changing the bedding and everything and I noticed that his toes were starting… his ankles were starting to turn in, and his little hands his fingers were starting to curl. I asked the nurse “What is the meaning of this?” and she just kind of looked at me and real softly said “This is effects of the brain damage he has.” So at that…

Sid:  Now that’s not a good sign.

Ella:  No, no in fact this was just artillery for them because they have to really prove that he’s brain dead and then do several CAT scans, that’s not it it’s uh CT scans of his brain to prove that he is brain dead. Then the organ transplant team comes in and talks to us and gets our permission to donate his organs.

Sid:  What were you doing with his legs as they were turning in?

Ella:  I would get lotion on him and just rub his legs and rub his arms. He was a great little t-ball player at the time he’d just got through with his baseball season. I would rub his legs and just speak to his arms and legs and say that they were going to run and they would play baseball again, and just speak positive words over him.

Sid:  Now you put a picture over his bed, what was that picture?

Ella:  That picture was a picture of his 6 year old birthday and he’s just there full of life and it was just the epitome of what Cody was, we would use that as a focal point. We would point to it to any of nurses, doctors, or visitors that came in, we would point to that picture and say “Cody will walk out of this hospital just like that a 100% normal.”

Sid:  Now there’s an interesting story about a pair of socks.

Ella:  A particular young lady she’s a nurse and with each one of my children she came up and actually put the first pair of socks on my children right after they were born. So she had been coming up to the hospital and this on a Wednesday and so Saturday night she asked me “Ella you know in the Bible they have handkerchiefs that Paul prayed over and things like that.  Would it be okay if I got a pair of socks and allowed a pastor to wear those while he was preaching in tomorrow mornings message, tomorrow mornings service and bring those up afterwards and let’s put them on Cody?” I said well sure because the anointing prayer clothes and that sort of thing, so socks would be the same thing.”

Sid:  Ella hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.