Sid Roth

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to fulfill their destiny in God. That’s why I’m so excited about this week my guest by way of telephone in his office in Baltimore, Maryland is John Caver. And God has commissioned John to put together archives of the greatest men and women of God that have moved in the miraculous power because there’s a generation, that’s what the Lord told him; there’s a generation that is alive today that knows nothing about the miracle working power of God. And you know how did Jesus train people? They became disciples, learners they just studied Him they followed Him they, they watched Him observed Him.  But who can we watch and observe to learn about these great miracle ministries and so that’s why John Carver has put this together…Now John on yesterday’s broadcast we promised to… I asked you why there aren’t people today walking at this level of anointing and this level of power? And you said “Well there’s a price to pay.” What is the price that has to be paid?

John: Well in my evaluation from studying and looking around the price is simply dying to ourselves. What would mean dying to me would not mean dying to you.  And now I know that sounds religious but let me back up again where it says in Romans it says to be “Now conformed to this world” and that means selfishness. And a lot of people just do not know how to wait on God they love the exposure and they love ministering under the anointing and the power of God but that’s only a small part of what it is to actually minister that way in the anointing and the power.  Many times a lot of ministers get wrapped up in the gifts and the anointing and the power and the exposure and the success and they fail to continue walking in their dedication that they once had with God.

Sid: So therefore they don’t really fulfill the great call they had.

John: That’s correct, that’s correct. Not long ago I did an interview with Freda Lindsey, Miss Freda Lindsey, of Christ for the nations.  And without me actually asking her this that’s what I wanted to ask her is “Why these men didn’t continue in the power and the anointing that they first started out in?”  And the answer came was this was that “They never continued doing what they did there was a price to pay to get there and then once you get there you have to keep paying that price.”

Sid: Give me some examples of what the price was to get there.

John: Well for one thing it’s called in AA Allen his book called “The Price of God’s Miracle Working Power.” In that book he deals with 11 things that God dealt with him about. Now if it be me there might be some other things that God would deal about that wouldn’t be with AA Allen.  For one of the things that let us say he used pride for one of them.

• Pride of place
• Pride of race
• Pride of position in the church and so on.

And so it’s called character imperfections. And what happens is if you don’t get control over self and God begins to lose you then you become a casualty.  And we’ve seen people who’ve had success in the last couple of decades who become causalities because of the power of the success that they’ve gotten.

Sid: And how about all of the ones that unfortunately end up backsliding.

John: That’s what I’m talking about.  It’s incredible the amount of…when…the church needs to learn to walk in that anointing that God calls them into and many times we don’t walk in the anointing that God’s calls us.  It’s like King Uzziah he wasn’t satisfied being a king he had to be part of the priesthood and offer the sacrifice. The Lord caused him to have leprosy and leprosy spiritually is an outcast. So therefore we’ve got a lot of outcast ministries today and Christians because they’re not walking in the anointing that God called them to walk in and they won’t continue to pay the price. Now AA Allen in that book “The Price of God’s Miracle Working Power” God said that these are the things that are standing between Me and you and the miracles.  Allen was praying “How come I don’t have the miracles in my ministry? And God said “These are the 11 things or 13 things that are standing between you and the power.  And there’s a lot of things and it’s not dos and don’ts it’s not in clothesline preaching type thing but it’s in our walk and our consecration to Christ and what He’s called us to do. One of the most important things that you can find out is what God… once you’re saved what He has called you for. And one of the things that I tell people all the time especially I get calls probably a week doesn’t go by that I get calls from all over the world literally and some of them are asking a question “Well how do I get there?” Well the first thing you’ve got to know is what God called you for. There’s no sense in my studying for me to be a dentist when God’s called me to be a lawyer.  And getting in your proper place in the body of Christ is the most important thing that you can do. Allen was running from it, Branham was running from it, Coe was so eager that it was just like he’s another story all together.

Sid: You know we didn’t touch much on him tell us a little bit about Jack Coe.

John: Well during World War II Jack Coe was…he joined the Army and he wanted to win souls. So he was just so zealous for God that he just went from place to place from one camp to the next camp because they didn’t know what to do with the guy.  And I mean when you’ve got somebody that’s like a boiling pot of water that’s just bubbling over and that’s what it means in the Old Testament. A prophet is one who bubbles over with the anointing. Well he was bubbling with so much of God’s grace and power that the army system didn’t know what to do with him.  Unlike the other 2 men that I mentioned Braham and Allen they literally struggled religiously they had comfort zones and I think that’s what’s wrong with America we’re comfortable and we don’t want to sacrifice in order to do what God wants us to do. Reproach is one of them you got to figure Braham was a Baptist, Allen was an Assembly of God and where God were taking them they were laughing at some of the things that were taking place in that day.  So were scorning it Allen scorned it and he said “This is not God.” And he had already had the vision and so that shows the unbelief that was in his heart. Each person is an individual has their own indigenous call, work that they’ve got to do and God deals with each person along these lines.  Where here you got Coe he was just crazy he went after it with such an intensity that the considered him mad…

Sid: Give me an example.

John: Well I knew his wife she’s passed away about a year or so ago and from my dealings with her I did several interviews with her. He just had the kind of…if God told him to do something it didn’t make any difference who was against it you know if the whole United States would have rose up and said “Jack Coe you’re not going to put a tent up here,” he put it up any way. He just…he just knew…

Sid: Tenacity.

John: Yeah he had tenacity I guess that’s a pretty strong word.  He had dangerous faith that’s a good word dangerous. And he was a dangerous (Laughing) to the powers of darkness it didn’t make any difference to him.  And I’ve viewed over 12 hours of films of Jack Coe.

Sid: Is there one miracle that comes to mind of the miracles you saw on these films?

John: Jack Coe reached up and prayed for a woman who had cancer on her face and he picked it off her face.

Sid: That takes chutzpah, courage.

John: Man I tell you that takes faith and I’ve seen tumors disappear under his arms on film it’s on this video he just had incredible faith! I don’t know how to explain to you except it was out of the ordinary, I mean it’s not just every day walk in faith.

Sid: Where did fasting fit in with these men?

John: Well it was obvious that Jack Coe didn’t fast very much.  (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing) Well some people thought that fast they throw their metabolism off and that’s why they’re so fat.

John:  Coe didn’t believe in it…now that’s only here say his son told me that he said…

Sid: Well he’s a man after my own heart…oh I’m just teasing (Laughing.)

John: Well when the guys fast I’m going to eat and enjoy my life.  But he was a man that just enjoyed meals. Now my brother literally stayed at AA Allen’s house while he and his wife were waiting for his apartment to open up for him there at Miracle Valley when he worked for Allen. And Allen would fast, Allen was a man who fasted all the time and he would not only fast but he would put meals for ministers that came in from all over the world.

Sid: When he would fast would it be all food and just water or.

John: He’s a coffee drinker from what I understand and yeah…I don’t…he drank a lot of coffee and that’s through several different people who told me that it was very strong coffee so…

Sid: How long would he fast?

John: Well he would go for weeks at a time.

Sid: And he really believed that that would get him closer to the Lord?

John: No two ways about it yeah, no two ways about it Allen was a man who consecrated his life to God and consequently he paid a price for it.  I mean you just don’t…he was totally wore out most folks don’t understand that about that man but he was totally wore out. You figure from 1950 to 1970 twenty solid years every month he had that tent in a major metropolitan city every month. And then in between he had meetings in auditoriums that’s 12 times a year. And some of the earlier meetings would go for 12 weeks and Allen would be up early in the morning doing interviews with people. He would be there and he had 3 services a day and he would be in every service plus the one of his own at night.

Sid: So Allen just listening to what you’re saying didn’t have a whole lot of time for studying the Bible and praying.

John: Oh no he prayed, he was a praying man hearing…I interviewed his tent manager his name was Jimmy and different people who worked for him and they would hear him 3 and 4 in the morning. Now I can’t speak for other people but when I get done with service at night I can’t sleep either so I know what it is to go to 1, 2 or 3 in the morning.

Sid: Did these people pray mostly in tongues or do you not know?

John: They prayed with groaning and utterances that they themselves didn’t even understand and I’ve been around folks like that and I understand that. I don’t know if…

Sid: It was almost like a travailing the Spirit.

John: It’s like a travailing and most of that kind of ministry is a travailing it really is because you’re battling the forces of darkness.

Sid: I’m sorry John we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.