Sid Roth

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah but this is ridiculous Mishpocha Heidi is… I don’t think she’s red hot I think she’s white hot, that’s hotter than red hot. Anyway I caught up with Heidi and Rolland Baker in Toronto they have a wonderful ministry in Mozambique, Africa. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out in 1997 Heidi, who has PhD, was pinned to the floor in Toronto, Canada pinned to the floor by the kavod, that’s the manifest presence. One of the definitions of the word is heaviness of God. Literally pinned her to the floor for several days; she was just totally…how do you describe totally immobile, is that right Heidi?

Heidi: I was incapacitated (laughing).

Sid: But the thing that is so wonderful is the fruit that has come from this. Today you have how many orphans are you taking care of?

Heidi: Several thousand orphans and our church pastors are beginning to take 10 each.

Sid: You said there were a couple thousand churches but you think it’s up close to 3000 now that have started under your ministry in the last few years?

Heidi: Over 3000 now.

Sid: If someone had told you 10 years ago “Heidi you’ll be feeding this many people and you’ll have to start all these churches.” Would you have believed it?

Heidi: I would have been quite shocked.

Sid: I’m sure or if someone would have you told you about your style of preaching and how it would change.

Heidi: (Laughing) I wouldn’t have believed them.

Sid: So for those that are listening for the first time and those that are… I want you to get a little more graphic. Let’s take you to 1997 the first time you had this major encounter with the Lord when you were pinned to the ground. What did He say to you and what did you see?

Heidi: Well the first time as I was sharing a bit yesterday I saw Jesus and I saw His eyes and His lovely beautiful face. The love of God pouring through His eyes and His broken bleeding body and He handed me His side and I fed it to the children. He said “There was always enough because He died.” He handed me a cup that flowed with blood and water from His side He said “There’s always enough because I died.” I gave it away to the children and it multiplied, just multiplied in my hands. From that day we’ve never said no to a dying hurting child taking them all. The next time the weight of God’s presence fell upon when we returned to Toronto and Randy Clark prayed for me and asked me, he said “God asked him would I want the nation, would I want the nation?” I didn’t know what that meant. I didn’t know God gave out nations I was confused by it but I just ran forward kneeled on my knees and my hands lifted and I screamed “Yes! Yes! Yes!” I was shocked by the power of God electrocute shocking and absolutely overcome by the power of God’s presence. Then I was again stuck to the ground unable to move, this lasted for seven days. Rolland and others carried me into the church and out of the church and in this time God spoke to my heart. He said “That I could do nothing, absolutely nothing without Him.”

Sid: Now when you were carried back and forth and out in the spirit that length of time, were you aware of anything going on on the outside? Were you aware that people were carrying you?

Heidi: I was aware of it I even heard some people laughing, some people thought it was kind of funny, but there was not one thing funny about it. It was holy, it was holy, holy, holy the holy presence of God. God… the first part of this literally I became hot I thought I was going to die I began to scream and I’m not one that would scream in church, I began to scream out “I’m going to die! I’m going to die!” God said “Good I want you dead” and that’s what changed my life. He just wanted me dead to my own desires, my own ambitions and He killed me, He killed me, He killed my flesh and after that experience all of the miracles, all of the healing miracles…

Sid: For those that are not familiar would you tell me… you had mentioned off the air that people had been dead are coming back to life. Tell me about that.

Heidi: Yes we have 4 pastors now who have raised the dead. After that experience where I was on the ground the Lord said “He wanted me to start a training school for pastors.” We started with 12 He gave me a prophetic word over 2 that they would raise the dead. I told them to go and pray for the dead. The next month both of them had raised the dead in Jesus name and revival had resulted from that. We’ve just had 2 little girls raised from the dead in Nampula Provence. A Muslim, complete Muslim Provence, and as these girls were raised from the dead, they died in the hospital, they were given back to the families to bury, to bury. This is recent we can’t tell old stories because they’re all so new (laughing). These little girls were dead and they took them back to their huts. This woman who had just been in our Bible school, Pastor Dawn Wheky, she prayed for them and they were both raised from the dead in Jesus name.

Sid: Now I know that your husband’s grandfather saw so many supernatural things of children having heavenly visitations. How about your orphans, has anything like that happening to them?

Heidi: Absolutely that was why we went to Mozambique. We wanted to see a continuation of what Rolland’s grandfather had seen in Hunan Province, China with orphans. The Lord promised us He would do it again and He called us to Mozambique to the poorest of the poor and He began to pour His Spirit out on these children. We started our churches, over 3000 churches now all with orphans and street children. The Lord, just as He touched me and poured His presence over me and incapacitated me He’s doing it to our children. He pours His Spirit into them and they see visions. Little Evon was taken up on shoulders of angels, danced with the angels, sat on the lap of the Lord and told to preach the gospel.

Sid: He was told… Was he the one that was given a song in heaven and brought back to earth?

Heidi: Hallelujah Hosanna yes! Evon.

Sid: Would you sing that song for 20 seconds or so right now?

Heidi: (Singing) Hallelujah Hosanna, Hallelujah Hosanna, Hallelujah Hosanna, Hallelujah hosanna…

Sid: Oh the anointing’s coming strong. Tell me a little bit… I have a video in which your son, your adopted son, and I imagine a few of his friends were singing the song and you were at the Toronto Airport Church. What happens when you sing that song now that song that came right from heaven?

Heidi: Just the presence of the Lord…

Sid: I could feel it as you were singing (laughing)!

Heidi: (Laughing) The presence of the Lord, Nairberto was singing that song it wasn’t Evon in the video but Nairberto who we found on the streets of Maputo a gang leader, a gangster gang leader. Absolutely taken a hold of by God and changed and now he’s at the school of ministry here in Toronto, he’s studying to be a minister.

Sid: Now do they really preach on the streets after they have these visitations?

Heidi: Oh yes we all preach on the streets! We’re still on the streets that’s where all the wonderful stuff happens out on the streets where the poor hear the good news. I was just in a garbage dump a couple of months ago and a man paralyzed from the waist down, 2 months paralyzed – Whoa! – The Lord completely healed Him. He was… yeah 2 years he was paralyzed, 2 years he was unable to walk. I went to the dump went with his wife way down into the depths of the bowls of the dump and the Lord said to me “Baptize him.” I had no river, the poor don’t live by rivers, you know there was no river, there was no lake, and just found a cup of water poured it over his head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I broke this spirit of death and darkness off of him and he got up and walked in Jesus name. Totally and completely healed – Whoa! I…

Sid: Excuse me Heidi in your video I heard you say what you just said a number of times “Whoa!” Why are you doing that, what is that?

Heidi: I just feel such a strong presence of the Lord that – Whoa! I don’t even know how to contain it, it comes out (laughing).

Sid: (Laughing)

Heidi: (Laughing) Whoa! Sometimes a holy or… it’s just a strong presence of the Lord hitting me.

Sid: Do you ever have religious people that say “You shouldn’t be doing that!” or “You’re such a good speaker why are you doing that? Why are saying these sounds? Why are you preaching from the floor?” Why?

Heidi: Yes I have but I realize now that the Lord uses the foolish things to confound the wise. I actually just recently was saying to God “I’d like notes and quotes. I’d like to sound Dr. Baker thank you very much.” Because a really coherent speaker had spoken ahead of me and instead as I was going to the bookstore to get some books to get notes and quotes, I was again stuck to the floor with the glory of the Lord. God showed me clown shoes He said “You can’t wear these shoes, you can’t wear these shoes you have to walk in your anointing. You walk in the anointing I’ve given you to walk in and I will use you as a sign and a wonder. I will use you the way I want to use you.” I was unable to get any notes or quotes but God showed up and people were changed.

Sid: Is there a transference of anointing that you’re seeing but… obviously I saw you pray for this transference of anointing on all the students at the school of ministry on the video. Do people die to self? Do people walk in the love that God says is available for us when you pray for them?

Heidi: (Laughing) By God’s grace they do and I get emails from hundreds of people that are giving their life away. Giving their whole life away for our precious King Jesus and serving the poor, and serving the lost and dying. It really really happens because of who He is.

Sid: Heidi we’re out of time.

BERT: I believe there is. We’re at a critical point right now in this nation. But there’s been too many deep wells of revival planted in this nation throughout history. We’ve sent out too much, too many missionaries, too many gospels. There’s righteous seed in this nation and God’s purposes are never vindictive. He’s not looking to punish America. His purposes are always redemptive. So there is hope for this nation because there is a godly remnant, a strong godly remnant that is still living in this nation.

SID: Now we have had revivals in several areas of our country. Nothing compared to those zones that where people would just bow down on the ground and on their knees, and repent over sin where no one was even preaching. But you saw the closest we’ve had. You were out at Brownsville. What did you see?

BERT: The week that I went down there and the services that was in, that I was in, were electric. I mean, people were lining up outside from early morning to early evening to get into the services. And when I walked in there, I could feel the electricity in there. And during the service, those particular services, I remember they mic(ed) little children in the back room, seven, eight, nine years old, moaning and groaning, and travailing. They had mics on them in the Spirit, having this consciousness of God and eternity and the lostness of the world. And I remember one of those services they put in on the platform, they put these large trash bins. And the evangelist was talking about articles of affection that we all have in our lives, and he was calling for repentance. It was a strong call for repentance that night. And he had people come up, people that had addictions, people that were bound by these, what he called these different articles of affection. He had, you know, anything from drug paraphernalia to cigarettes, to pornographic magazines. I mean, people came up with all this trash and threw it in these trash bins and they had a rejoicing party, people repenting, people crying over their sins and then being set free from all these addictions. That’s, that was the week I went. There was a tremendous altar calls, hundreds, there was crying, tears of great, great crying, weeping and then tears followed by tears of great joy and rejoicing.

SID: You told me during the break that you have an unction to pray for miracles and fire. Would you do that right now.

BERT: Yes. Father, I thank you right now for the Spirit of God. There is no distance in the Spirit. And right now wherever people are watching in cities and nations here and across the world, I thank you now for your holy fire. I thank you Father for a revelation of Jesus Christ flooding across these nations right now, and dreams and visions being given to many that would reveal Christ to them and cause an explosion of holy fire that would ignite within them even now. And Father, those that are sick, those that are diseased, tormented, chronic sicknesses, terminal sicknesses, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Father, I release now that power and anointing of power to go into these people’s bodies. I see people in hospital beds right now that are watching this. In the name of Jesus Christ, get up from your bed. Get up from your deathbed. Be free from your cancer and your terminal diseases. In the name of Jesus Christ, receive that healing power and that healing anointing right there in your room where you are through a transfer, a transfer of God’s Holy Spirit right now. In Jesus’ name be healed now. Cripples, be healed. Those that can’t even hear maybe watching television, have problems with your ears, in the name of Jesus, ears be open, deaf and dumb spirits come out in the name of Jesus. Those that are having problems with their eyes even blindness, in Jesus name, eyes be open, blindness go, demons leave in Jesus’ name. Be free right now of every damnable disease that is impoverishing your life right now by the power to the glory of Jesus Christ. Amen.

SID: I tell you, joints are being healed right now. I tell you that there is joy in Heaven over one sinner that repents.

BERT: Yes.

SID: You say I’m that one. You repent of your sin. Do I have to tell you? No, you know what it is. You tell Jesus you’re sorry. Believe the blood of Jesus gives you the power and washes away your sin so you can walk the way you’ve always wanted to. Make Jesus your Lord and watch the angels in Heaven start rejoicing just for you. You know I’m talking to you. Now do business with God.

BERT: Yes, yes, yes.

SID: You talk about keys so that we can really understand.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: What God’s will is. I mean, so many people are almost paralyzed.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: For fear they’re going to do something wrong, so they don’t do anything.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: And then they go their whole life doing nothing, and they had a whole destiny ahead of themselves. One of your keys that you talk about is determine that you’re going to be led by God and nothing else.

KAREN: Everybody that I know wants to be led by God. They want to hear his plan. They want to obey him and move, but they don’t necessarily know the track to take. But when we determine that we’re going to be led by him, in other words, Father I’m not going to do anything until I hear from you, that requires several things from us. We first have to seek him. Right? And so if you’re facing a major decision or you’re looking for God’s direction in life, you have to decide, first of all, most important, I’m going to see God about this and nothing else. We make decisions based on money. We make decisions based on lack of money. We make decisions based on circumstances or feelings, or opinions of other people, or we make our own pro-con list, you know, and we have to remember that, like Proverbs 3:5-6 says, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Don’t lean to your understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he’ll make your path straight.” Our understanding is one thing, but we understand in a very limited way, don’t we?

SID: So give me an example like tragedy hits your whole family. How did this play out?

KAREN: Yes. Well you know, when I was 37 years old and my first husband was 37 years old, he died. We were pastoring a church. He just was sick, suddenly, just went home to be with the Lord. My sons were 12 and 13 years old. And so you can imagine I just had major decisions to make every day, all day instead of taking advice from other people, which is important and good, but you need to weigh everything by what the Holy Spirit is saying to you. And so I had to spend extra, extra time in the Word of God. You know, the Bible is God talking to us and it’s how I walked out this whole, I had to take over pastoring our church and raising teenage sons, and I really needed the Word of the Lord in my life more than anything. And it probably, you know, grounded me inside of me.

SID: Not to mention, even though you sorted it out, you had to, coming from your husband was a graduate of Rhema, too.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: And coming from that background, when something like that happens, it’s just not supposed to happen.

KAREN: Right.

SID: And in addition, having sorting out why your husband died suddenly and having two children to raise, and pastoring a church.

KAREN: Yes. And so I spent that time pressing into his Word. And by that I mean I read it a lot. I meditated on it. I, you know, there’s a scripture in Psalm 119 that says, “Lord [except] for your Word I would have perished in my affliction.” And that was me. I read it like a five-year-old learning to read, ran my hand down the page because the Bible is God talking to us, and that’s how we learn to recognize his voice.

SID: Tell me a little bit more about that because that is key to recognize God’s voice. You said practice, but tell me a little more about that.

KAREN: Well think about it. If the Bible is God talking to us then we need to hear him talking to us. And if we familiarize ourself with the Bible, we read it a lot, we’ll find out how he leads people, how he guides people, what he sounds like, you know. And I use this analogy, because I heard one time that the U.S. Treasury Department trains their agents to recognize a counterfeit bill by giving them the real bills. And they touch them, and they smell them, and they put them under a microscope, and they look at them a long time so that they’re so familiar with the real that if a counterfeit comes along they notice it right away. And what if we as Christians, as believers, as people who love God get into the Word of God so much we understand the real that if a counterfeit idea, you know, the devil comes along or our own voice comes along, we recognize it right away.

SID: Now you were trying to decide something. What was God telling you to do?

KAREN: When I was pastoring our church after my husband passed away and God started talking to me about moving to Tulsa, and I didn’t want to because I loved the Northwest and my family and friends were there, and Tulsa is in the Midwest. And you know, and so I made my own pro-con list, and under pro it said, “Because God said so.” And under con it said, “Because I don’t want to move there and my friends and family are here.” And the con list was about ten things long, and the pro list was about one. And if I had gone by a pro-con list, I would have voted con and stayed there, and been out of God’s will. So we can’t go necessarily by our own idea of a pro-con list.

SID: How did it turn out?

KAREN: It turned out good. I moved to Tulsa and I ended up, you know, got to teach at Rhema and really travel the world, and preach. And so who know where I would be if I hadn’t obeyed God.

SID: If she wasn’t determined to follow God and no one else. Now what is the difference between hearing his audible voice or promptings? Everyone is looking for his audible voice.

KAREN: Yeah. And really most of us are to be led by the inward witness. You know, the Bible teaches us that we are a threefold being. You know, we live in a body. We have a soul, but we are a spirit and the part of us that’s a spirit, the born again part, is just like Jesus. It’s just like God. And so then we are meant to hear his voice. He said in John 10:27, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me.” And so we are meant to recognize his voice, but we hear it as a prompting from the inward man, from the Spirit, the Holy Spirit speaking to us. I like to call it a knowing in your knower.

SID: Okay. Give me an example of a prompting when you were driving late at night.

KAREN: Yeah. One time I was on I-5 driving, you know. And in my family, if you get tired while you’re driving, I was all by myself, we just pull over to the side of the road and take a nap. And so I was tired, I pulled over, I leaned the seat back and I went to sleep. And I don’t know how long I had been sleeping, but all of a sudden, the Lord just prompted me. I got this inward witness that just woke me up, and I sat bolt upright, and I felt the Holy Spirit say, “Move now.” And so I put the seat up, I started the car, and I moved. And really, that’s the end of the story, which it turned out good because nothing bad happened. Who knows, maybe a, you know, trucker was sleepy and he would have veered off the road right then and squashed my little Honda like a bug. And so, you know, I listened to the Holy Spirit and he gave me that inward witness, and I obeyed him.

SID: Tell me about your son’s experience where you learned how important it is, and listen to this, watch your mouth.

KAREN: Yes. That’s one of the keys to hearing the voice of God because we need to be sure our words agree with the Bible, you know, because the Bible is what we’re following. It’s our roadmap for our destiny. And if we talk opposite of it, say somebody goes in their prayer closet and they say, “Lord, please help me, direct me, guide me, let me know your direction for my life,” and then they come out of their prayer closet and you ask them, “So what are you going to do?” And they go, “I don’t know, I can’t hear from God.” They just said the opposite of what they prayed.

SID: And they got the opposite.

KAREN: Yeah, exactly. And so my son, you know, he was facing graduation. He was an ORU senior and everybody asked him, like you ask all graduates, you know, what are you going to do when you graduate, and he didn’t know. And he hated to have to keep saying, I don’t know, because he’s been praying to know. And so finally one day he said to me, “Mom, I’ve come up with the answer. When people ask me, what are you going to do after graduation, I’m going to say, I’ll know when the time comes.”

SID: Much better.

KAREN: That way he keeps his word in agreement with the Word.

SID: I like that.

KAREN: Yeah.

SID: Okay. When we come back you’re going to find out one of the most important keys. And I mean, it’s been deemphasized in our society and shame on you that are deemphasizing this. It’s called tongues, supernatural languages.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: This is where the power is. We’ll be right back.

SID: You know Gary, during the commercial break, you told me how important money is. Sickness, it’s very important to get on top of that.

GARY: Yes.

SID: But money affects everyone, everything. I even read that’s the number one cause of divorces.

GARY: Yes. Yes. You know, you can talk about issues and of course we’re not downplaying any of those issues, but the point is money affects everyone. And if you’re in debt or you’re in lack, and you’re in this financial stranglehold it’s, it actually sucks the life out of you, sucks all the vision, all the hope, and it aims everything in just survival. And it’s amazing how you begin to think in survival mode how you just try to make it through one more week until Friday night, you know. I tell people God really wants you to not like Friday night and love Monday morning because you’re so passionate about what you’re doing in life. You’re not in survival mode just making a living. You’re like, I got to stop. It’s Friday night? I want to get back to Monday morning again.

SID: You even told me that the stress and worry of over money causes people to get sick.

GARY: Absolutely. I think stress, I think the study showed that stress does cause a large majority of the illnesses in our body.

SID: Okay. Would you say that lack of money is a curse?

GARY: Well I would agree it is, but I didn’t say that. The Bible did. Back in Genesis, Chapter 3, of course, Adam and Eve had no concerns. All their provision was there.

SID: What a life.

GARY: What a life. They were, man was made at the end of the sixth day designed to live in the seventh day, the day of rest. Now God wasn’t tired when it says that God rested. He was finished. Everything was complete. And so they didn’t have to worry. But Adam gave it all away. He rebelled against God. He lost that place of authority and dominion he had over the earth realm and God approached in Genesis, chapter 3, verse 17, and said, “Now by your own painful toil and sweat you’ll have to eat of the earth.” I call that the earth curse and that’s where everyone has grown up. That’s why “Everyone Wants to be a Millionaire” is so popular, that’s why the lottery is so popular. Everyone is tired of the wait of finding provision. Jesus said, “If the unbeliever runs in painful toil and sweat after the things of life” and that’s, everyone filters their direction by that. There’s a good job paying in California, I’ll move. There’s a better paying job over here. I’ll do that. And they miss their identity. See, Adam had to lose his identity. He was to take care of God’s stuff. He was created for a purpose and now he lost his purpose, and his purpose was survival and trying to find provision. And everyone has done that. Everyone is filtering every decision in this earth-cursed system through survival either running after money or if they have it, hoarding it because the only escape out of this rat race is to have more than enough.

SID: Now you say that we need to change. Kingdoms change laws. What do you mean?

GARY: Take a look at Luke, chapter 5 with Peter, James and John, Jesus walking on the shore comes there and they’ve been fishing all night. Jesus wants to borrow Peter’s boat and goes out, does borrow the boat, comes back in. Jesus says, “Go fish. GO fishing. Cast your net out.” And Peter said, “Master, we fished all night and got nothing, the earth cursed system. We’ve labored but nothing is there.” And then they didn’t catch just so many fish. The net is about broke and both boats, their, Peter’s and his partner’s James’ and John’s boats both about sank. What’s the difference? I began, as a spiritual scientist, I say. I say okay, why did that happen? Well you follow the story, when the boat was given to Jesus to use in ministry, the boat changed legal jurisdiction from the affairs of men, the dominion of men in the earth realm, to under the Kingdom of God’s jurisdiction. At that point, Jesus had a legality. Heaven had a legality in the earth realm where Heaven downloaded to Jesus where the fish were at. And Jesus said the fish are over there in the deep water. You and I can catch fish if Jesus told us where they were. And so the difference in my life, and God began to give me business ideas. He gave me a dream in the night to start a business. He began to show me where the fish were. He began to show me how to harvest. You know, the earth realm is such a poverty-driven system. It’s a lack-driven system to survive that peace, most people are looking for money and they have it all backwards. Money, God doesn’t have any money. Okay. All money is created in the earth realm by [       ] buying and selling. The Lord told me one time, “My church has learned to give but not have a harvest.” All right. So we have to know how the system works. In other words, since God has no money when you give, as we said in the illustration, Luke, chapter 5, when we sow, our money does change governments, gives God jurisdiction to create opportunities. I always say don’t look for money. God helps us create or capture opportunities to create wealth. So what happens, people are not taught, they will sow and they’re waiting with what I call mailbox mentality, waiting for it just to show up. They think someone is going to walk down the street and say, here’s a million dollars and of course it doesn’t happen that way. You can have a million dollar idea is how it happens.

SID: All right. Tell me about the cheesecake.

GARY: You’re talking about Chris. So he heard in our conference how God will download ideas, concepts, direction and he had nothing, no ideas, no money. But he said, “I make a really good cheesecake.” He said, “You know, I really make a healthy good cheesecake. I wonder if I can sell that.

SID: He can sell it to me. I’m looking for good cheesecake.

GARY: Well this was the first night of the conference. So he went home and made this cheesecake. He began to pray about what I was saying and he thought, I’m going to take this cheesecake down to the local health food store and see if they like it. So he took it down there the next day. It just so happened the CEO of the entire health food chain was there that day and tasted the cheesecake, and said it’s the best cheesecake he ever had. And so Chris comes to my meeting that night and comes up for prayer, and says, “I got this opportunity,” and he told me what happened, you know. “Thank you. I want to pray about this.” And so he comes back the next day all excited because the company had decided to actually give him a contract to bake cheesecakes. And then that Friday night of the conference, the CEO, who was visiting from California, came to our meeting, got born again, filled with the spirit because he was so impressed with what he heard Chris talk about.

SID: You know what I have found out that Gary has a gift and when he teaches according to this gift it’s not just for money. These laws work for everything.

GARY: Absolutely.

SID: When we come back I want him to tell us about the secret weapon. Don’t go away.