Sid Roth

 

Sid: My guest by way of telephone I’m speaking to him at his home in Key Largo, Florida is RT Kendall. RT is the former Senior Minister of West Chapel in London, England. He is a PhD graduate of Oxford University. And He has a new book that’s shaking a lot of people up and I believe that if there’s every been a time to get this area right in your life is just before what I believe is the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit in the history of planet earth, don’t miss out on your destiny. The name of the book “Total Forgiveness” subtitle “When Everything in You Wants to Hold a Grudge Point a Finger and Remember the Pain God Wants You to Lay it All Aside.” RT on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about what is total forgiveness, would you pick up there where we left off?

RT: Well it doesn’t mean closing our eyes to those that will continue to harm others Sid. Total forgive is when you pray for them and you want them to be blessed but the proof that you have total forgiven begins with a refusal to tell what they did. Take for example Joseph here was a man who was betrayed by his brothers, sold to Ishmaelites and then that was really Plan B they were going to kill him. Well it wasn’t a very nice thing that they did and Joseph had to forgive them. Now when those brothers sold Joseph to the Ismaelites they never thought they’d see him again. Little did they know that 22 years later when they go to Egypt they have to face the Prime Minister of Egypt that is none other than their brother Joseph they don’t know it at first but later they find out that it’s a new Joseph. Joseph had longed for the day that he could look at those brothers and say “Gotcha!” But now he has them before him and instead of saying “Gotcha” he’s a new man, he’s a changed man. And the first thing he does Sid is to say “Everybody out of the room.” Now why did he have everybody leave the room? It’s because he’s going to persuade his brothers to get their father Jacob to come and live in Egypt in the land of Goshen. The reason he had everybody leave the room except his brothers is so that nobody in Egypt would ever know what they did to him. Joseph wants his brothers to come and live in Egypt and he wanted the Egyptians to admire his brothers. Joseph knew that he himself was a hero he wanted his brothers to be heroes and so he makes sure that nobody in Egypt would ever find out because he knows that if they find out in Egypt what they did you know they’re going to hate those brothers and Joseph doesn’t want his brothers to be hated.

Sid: If Joseph hadn’t at some point along the way forgiven his brothers do you think he would have rose to the royalty he did?

RT: Very good point Sid. Don’t believe he would have it’s my view that God just waited till Joseph totally forgave before he could be trusted with such a lofty position.

Sid: And Mishpochah did you get that point. Maybe you you’ve been saying “God I feel like I’ve been on a treadmill how come you’re not moving me up? How come you’re not promoting me, how come the gifts are not flowing the way you promised me that they’re going to flow and maybe…

RT: You are exactly right.

Sid: And maybe God’s waiting on you.

RT: Do you remember the dreams Joseph had about his brothers? Yeah he wasn’t very wise to tell those dreams he said “You know I had this dream “Moon, eleven stars were bowing down to me.” Now there wasn’t anything wrong with Joseph’s gift because it was functioning he had a definite prophetic gift when it came to dreams. But there was a lot wrong with Joseph and Joseph always knew that one day those brothers were going to come to him. But what he didn’t know is that God wasn’t going to let it happen until Joseph was right in his heart towards them. And I think there are a lot of people Sid that have been given call it prophetic words, words of knowledge, promise maybe the Lord Himself has promised someone one day I’m going to use you.” And they keep asking Him “How long, how long, how long?

Sid: And God’s saying the same thing “How long, how long, how long are you going to wait to walk in un-forgiveness? (Laughing.)

RT: That’s exactly the point, that’s exactly the point. So Joseph could not be trusted with such authority and power if he were still bitter. And so when God doesn’t exalt us as soon as we would like it’s at least that God’s doing us a favor because we couldn’t be trusted with that kind of power.

Sid: You know many times I’ve said…I’ve even said this publically when I first started in ministry had I had the platform I have right now I believe that I would have fallen big time.

RT: Hm hm exactly.

Sid: So God’s got a lot of wisdom there (Laughing.)

RT: Well He was doing Joseph an enormous favor and He’s done me a favor by well my predecessor at Westminster Chapel was a man by the name of Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones. And he used to say to me “The worst thing that can happen to a man is to succeed before he’s ready.” And so that the principals here once Joseph had totally forgiven those brothers “God says Joseph I think now you’re ready,” and that’s and you’re exactly right Sid and that’s what God was doing here.

Sid: Well you’re just exploding so many thoughts but let’s go back to what is total forgiveness.

RT: What do you think I should say what it isn’t?

Sid: Please.

RT: Okay.

Sid: That’s one way to understand.

RT: It is not approval of what they did, you see God never approved of our sin He hates sin and so Jesus forgave the woman found in adultery but it didn’t approve of what she did He told her leave your life of sin. And so when we forgive it doesn’t mean we approve what they did nor does it mean that we excuse what they did. We got to forgive people but it doesn’t mean we excuse them, or it doesn’t mean we justify what they did. So nor does it mean that we pardon what they did. Back to the lady who was raped by a person from a Middle Eastern country. She didn’t pardon him but she certainly forgave him in her heart. And another very important point I think that we already touched on this I think it was maybe on the program yesterday forgiveness is not necessarily reconciliation there not always the same thing. You see reconciliation requires the participation of two people the person you forgive may not want to see you or talk to you or they may have passed away since the time of the offense. Not only that Sid you may not want to maintain a close relationship with the person you forgive. So the main thing is you’ve got to forgive them but it doesn’t mean necessarily reconciliation.

Sid: You know a lot of people beat themselves down because they think it means those other things.

RT: Yeah I know I call it pseudo-guilt, living in guilt but the main thing is that we forgive them. And I ought to add one other thing total forgiveness is not denying what they did sometimes people will live in denial and say “Well I can’t believe those people really did that to me.” It’s not blindness to what they did the truth is you’ve got to say “They did do that, what they did was not very nice.”

Sid: And it’s also not very justifying saying “Oh well they had a bad father that taught them to act that way it’s not excusing what they did.”

RT: And I’ll add something else “A lot of times people say to forgive is to forget.” That’s not true you see we say forgive and forget but the truth is we can’t forget we know what they did.” But what we do mean by that is that we don’t bring it up, we don’t keep pointing the finger, you can’t deny what they did. And so that’s the important thing you don’t live in denial and pretend, you’re forgiving when you know good and well what they did was not right, it was wicked, it was evil but you forgive them because God has forgiven us and we’re to pass that on.

Sid: And you say when you discuss this in your book “What Total Forgiveness is Not.” You talk about people it’s not pretending we’re not hurt, so what do we do with our hurts?

RT: Well God let David know how grieved he was over his sin of adultery and so God did not pretend not to be hurt. And David a man after God’s own heart was still the object of God’s being ruthlessly impartial with David. So Jesus was hurt when he was struck in the face by a priest official, he said “Why did you strike me?” So he didn’t pretend that he wasn’t hurt we are hurt but we don’t want to make the other person feel guilty and when we have totally forgiven we will set them free from any kind of guilt.

Sid: And you know what I do in my own life is I don’t look for that other person to heal my hurt I go to God and I say “Father I’m hurting.”

RT: Right.

Sid: I need Your love, You’re the only one that can give me the love any way.

RT: Hm.

Sid: Well what is total forgiveness now we know what it’s not.

RT: Okay it’s refusing to say what they did to make them look bad, another thing you won’t let the people be afraid of you. Joseph as soon as he revealed who he was those brothers were terrified and he looked at them probably in tears and he says “Come close to me, come close to me.” He didn’t want them to be afraid but you see if you have hurt me and I haven’t forgiven you I’m going to want you to be afraid of me. And had Joseph not forgiven those brothers the moment he saw how scared they were he could have said “Gotcha good I’m glad to see how you feel I’ve waited for this moment!” But instead he says “Come close to me he was just wanting to feel love from the, he wanted them to feel loved.”

Sid: Mishpochah time is slipping away and I want to leave you with one thought to ponder until we come back tomorrow. Unforgiveness keeps you from loving again, think about that.