Sid Roth

Sid: I have a good friend that has been a friend of mine for many years Pastor Steve Gray from World Revival Church in Kansas City on the line. Steve and I go back to the days in Smithton, Missouri where in this tiny little town. I remember doing that video Steve and I would say “Here I am in the down town metropolis; there’s no cars going; there’s no dogs barking; there isn’t even gas in the gas station. But somehow and then these long lines of people coming to this tiny little town; what was the population Steve?

Steve: Yes 532 people it said on the sign.

Sid: (Laughing)

Steve:   Lined up to get into the church from all over the world; amazing.

Sid: But you know when you told me that God told you to move to Kansas City and start a new church I had to believe that you heard from God because that was such a prosperous thing to walk away from something so good.

Steve: Yeah.

Sid: So to speak and as history has it your’s is one of the few revivals that has been maintained and has been actually increasing. How many years has it been now?

Steve: Yeah, we’re at the 8 year; we’re just past the 8 year mark and it is wonderful. It is increasing; it is very intense, powerful, miracles and healings. Every service people getting up saying they’re healed. A lot of cancers disappearing and of course we have the House of Hope and Healing that’s opened 24 hours a day 7 days a week. So it gets a steady traffic of healings and miracles. And all of that put together it is burning red hot here. We had Claudio Freeze Zone was here last week and of course they’re known for revival down there that’s continuous and he was just amazed. He said that it just the comparison of all the churches that he’s been to in America he’s just can’ believe that it’s going on. Immediately he said, “I want you to come down to speak at my church in Argentina.” So it’s amazing how it’s continued to go on and has a lot to do with the hearts of the people and our desire to stay in that heat; that hot burning place with God and that burning bush.

Sid: So how come most haven’t stayed there; how come most haven’t stayed there? How come most that had a genuine move of God’s Spirit it literally walked out of their church?

Steve: It’s hard for me to understand it sometimes but the reports I’m getting are not real good; how much…how they swinging back to the traditional church or swinging back. And I’m thinking “What are they thinking; how can they handle that. But I think that as you and I’ve talked before I think that maybe the basic motives were wrong in the first place. We’re trying to use revival or use the movement of God or use the River or use refreshing to accomplish the goals that we think God wants to do which is to become as large as we can become. And of course you and I we both believe in evangelism so this is not anti-evangelism but you can skirt evangelism and just try to get a shifting of congregations. Get the people to come over to your church instead and that’s not really evangelism. And so…

Sid: No, that’s called sheep stealing.

Steve: Yeah, and…

Sid: And robbers don’t go to heaven; but any way that’s another story; go ahead. (Laughing)

Steve:   Well, you get the idea well if we have the latest move of God and the hottest moving thing they’ll all shift and my church will get bigger and I’ll get more money and I’ll get more famous and I’ll do all of these things. And and probably a story like mine when you get somebody who was in the middle of no where and all of a sudden they do get such prominence and newspapers and television it even feeds that more and says “Well, I’ll get this then and then I’ll become that.” But you can’t have the I’ve got to do that, but that wasn’t my motive. You know my motive; I just want to live and I wanted to live in the presence of God that’s it. And God came down so powerfully that it got attention, but it can’t be your motive. And something then when some churches didn’t grow like they thought or the money didn’t come in or they didn’t get on TV and in fact when God moves you know some people are going to leave because they don’t want a move of God.

Sid: Listen Steve; the hottest churches in America are what are called seeker sensitive.

Steve: Yeah.

Sid: I would have to believe that your church is the opposite of seeker sensitive.

Steve: Yes, mine I know it sounds odd but you know what mine’s a God sensitive church. And I want to be sensitive to God I want a church that God attends.

Sid: But does the ends justify the means? In other words if I was a pastor and I know that people only want a one hour service including message; including offering and come in a laid back causal manner and be entertained. And I could get the largest church in town; that’s very tempting; not to me but that must be very tempting to others because they’re doing it all over the United States. But the bottom line is they do preach the gospel and people do give their heart to the Lord. They don’t act much different than the world; but the truth is there are a number of converts.

Steve: Well yeah, but also the truth is they’re building it on sand because it works as long as there’s no storms or wind or anything blowing the house down.

Sid: Do you think there’s going to be some storms or winds in the United States of America?

Steve: Well, I think there’s certainly some signs that it could happen. And you know we’re teetering on the edge of terrorism anytime. You hear it every day this could happen happen; that could happen; and you know you don’t…you hope not but on the other hand even the personal storms that people have. I noticed this that people that go to those churches that cater to everything they want but when things don’t go the way they want then where do they go; they can’t go back to what they want again. So it’s a little bit on building on sand and I think the people will find that to be true. The other thing I think is that we’re finding in the population of America signs of a great awakening. And I think that the last thing that the people in America who are getting hungry for God; the real thing they want reality Christianity. And they don’t want to be catered to they said they spent their whole life catering to their needs; their wants; their desires and the result has been divorce, and dysfunction and depression. And so you just come and wrap it in a few hymns and sermon; it’s still catering to us and it still produces the fruit – same fruit. So it’s a little deceptive in that it looks shiny; it’s almost like a white-washed tomb.

Sid: But you know there’s another thing that I want to mention and that is there is an attack on the supernatural of God. When I first became a believer coming from a Jewish background a little over 30 years ago Charismatic Church everyone spoke in tongues and moved in gifts of the Spirit; a Pentecostal Church of course. Today I believe the average Charismatic or Pentecostal Church a low percentage even speak in tongues.

Steve: Yeah, and as you know and I’ve been in the services where they actually instruct the congregation not to speak in tongues. Or the…how about this for hypocrisy you can speak in tongues on the Sunday Night Service or the River Service or the revival but not on Sunday morning. Don’t speak in tongues and don’t raise your hands on Sunday Morning but you can do it Sunday night or if they had a Sunday night or if they have sometimes they’ll schedule a Contemporary Service and they’ll have the traditional service and they’ll tell them which service that they could do it and which service that they can’t (Giggling). I mean it just I don’t know if it gets any more hypocritical than that.

Sid: And there’s another thing that I want to mention; there are more good Christian…and I don’t remember this ever in my 30 years of walking with the Lord there are so many good Christians that don’t even go to church any more. And they still love the Lord; they still read the Bible and they still pray, but they don’t go to church because they don’t see it touching their spirit.

Steve: Yeah, that is a bad problem and then they know the church they’re going to is not touching their spirit just like you said and then the problem is they’ve spent so many years in a church that didn’t touch their spirit that I think they got planted in them is suspicion to be suspicious of any place that does touch their spirit.

Sid: Ym.

Steve: So they’re really locked into a situation where they’re going to have to make some…well, they really just need to open their Bible and read what God does and who He is and find that. But so I find that they don’t go to church because there so discouraged that the church that they went to; but they’re afraid to go to church that God’s really doing stuff because that level of doubt has been planted in them too.

Sid: Let me give you a spin; I believe that God is about ready to pour out His Spirit on young people; why young people? Because the older people aren’t willing to change. And when He pours out His Spirit on young people I believe large number of unsaved Jewish people are about ready to get saved. And you get a Jew and a Gentile that become that One New Man that Paul talks about there’s going to be a spark that is going to literally light an atomic bomb and we’re going to see the glory of God once again in the glorious church.

Steve: I pumped that One New Man into our congregation; and you know our congregation is I mean we have 40% of our congregation are singles and young. And I mean it’s powerful and new ones are coming off the street all the time. We have a lot of outreach here and stuff and boy get them filled and it’s amazing what you can do with a person if they get saved; get filled with the Spirit and every week they got to sit down next to firebrand rather than a lukewarm; half-hearted person looking at their watch.

Sid: Let’s face it you become like the people you associate with.

Steve: Absolutely, hypocrisy is a yeast and so it gets on you if you sit by it too long; and so people have sat by it for so long and have been told that it’s okay that they don’t realize that it’s getting on them; I think that that’s maybe where that deception comes. But what would happen if all of your listeners that are discouraged or haven’t found a church home take back 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago when they got saved; what if every service they sat next to somebody on fire who could careless about the world; didn’t care how long the service went; loved God with all of their hearts, soul; mind and strength; wanted the presence of God annd every church that they went to that’s what they found. Who would that person be today? And most people would agree that they’d be a totally different person. It’s being around all of this other junk that’s worn us down. So like you know I think that’s why the young people are the hope and some of us older middle-aged people we can get on the bandwagon there’s nothing stopping us.

Sid: Listen, Joshua and Caleb made it and I’m going to make it.

Steve: That’s right.

Sid: (Laughing)

Steve: There are acceptions Kathy’s parents, my wife’s parents Kathy they’re in their 70’s but I forget; 78 or no; he’s going to be 80 years old and this guy has got revival in his soul.   And he’s as fiery as ever; so it can happen but it’s rare so we have to go to our new resources.   And you know I told I told one Jewish Rabbi was so disappointed; he’s a believer in Yeshua and he looked right at me and he knew what I wanted, knew that I was believing and he said “Steve I got to tell you we don’t want that one new man.” Some Jews, not every Jew…

Sid: Let’s stop right here because we’re out of time and hey you better come back tomorrow!