Sid Roth

Sid: Go

Jonathan:  Are you serious? Shalom Mishpochah, Shalom family.

Sid: You can’t even pronounce Mishpochah right there’s no way that you could do that Jonathan. That’s my guest Jonathan Bernis and I’m Sid Roth and we’re actually having fun because when you know God you can have fun. But there’s times to be serious and  there’s time to have fun. And we want to talk about a serious subject right now. The increase worldwide of anti-semitism. What’s the Biblical origin of anti-semitism Jonathan?

Jonathan: You know Sid I hear all the time that anti-semitism is a totally illogical viewpoint.  It’s a totally illogical idea ideology and that simply wrong.  Anti-Semitism is very logical, very logical.  Let me tell you where anti-Semitism begins and I’ve been doing a lot of research on this. As a matter of fact I’m in the process of writing a book on it. Anti-Semitism origins are Genesis Chapter 3 verse 15.  Again let me say that again Genesis 3 verse 15. Mishpochah you should jot this verse down because this is a key verse. And theological terms this verse is called the Pro to-un-galleon.

Sid: Oh e-vey I’m sorry you told me (Laughing)

Jonathan:  O e -vey Sid never for get that the Proton-un-galleon.

Sid: Ha, ha I’ll never remember it but go ahead.

Jonathan:  Very simply it means pre-gosple. This is the very first declaration of the gospel of God’s future redemption in the scriptures. Genesis 3:15 and you all know the story God has created the world, He has created man. He’s enacted what I call the principal of creation and delegation.  He said to Adam “I have created everything, now I’ve delegating it to you; you can do anything you want basically as long as you obey me and don’t eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.” And what happened, we all know what happened Adam disobeyed God and the world was catapulted into a state of sin. I mean we don’t comprehend Sid just how severe, how radical the change in the earth was when Adam and Eve sinned.  I mean I could give you a long list but it was as very very radical change. And in that day man began to die.  In Genesis 3:15 although there a curse that’s placed on both the serpent or Satan and the woman. There is also a declaration of redemption. And I’m going to read the verse in the NIV “And I will put enmity or division between you and the woman between your offspring and hersl he will crush your head and you will strike his heal.”  Now it’s a little bit complicated if you haven’t looked at this before but basically what the Lord is saying is that the seed of the woman which is a very unusual statement Sid, that actually the declaration of the virgin birth.  Because seed in scripture is carried through the man; it’s transmitted through the man an yet this is the seed of the woman which is the first prophecy of the virgin birth not Isaiah 7:14.  And then it says “Her seed.” speaking of course of the Messiah the Yeshua, will crush the head of the serpent an in response the serpent will only bruise the heal of the Messiah. Which is exactly what happened at Calvary. Now why do I set all of this up in this verse? Because I believe that Anti-semitism is a direct response to this declaration of redemption. The Lord is saying to Satan and so Satan is very much aware of this that a day will come in the future when your head will be crushed by the seed of this woman.  So this something that Satan has had if you will hanging over his head for how many thousand years?  For 6,000 years or how many you date or far back you date  Adam and Eve. What am I getting at?  Well, the seed the seed of the woman which I call the seed promise is carried of course through Noah and through his descendants and you really don’t hear anything about it until Genesis 12. In Genesis 12 were introduced to a man name Abram.  Later becomes Abraham and the Lord makes this incredible statement; He says I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you and through you. Or through Sid, it says in the Hebrew yous seed (or your offspring) all the nations of the earth, all the Goyim the nations of the earth will be blessed.  What is that prophesying?    It’s prophesying ultimately that through the loins of Abraham, through his seed will come the Redeemer of Genesis 3:15.  Are you following me so far?

Sid: So far it makes lots of sense.

Jonathan:  So far, so clear. So here’s the simplicity and the logic of  anti-semitism.  Satan the serpent if you will has a death sentence hanging over his head, that his head will be crushed by the seed of the woman. He then is very much aware of the calling and choseness of Abram and the promise that through his seed the world will be blessed ultimately through Messiah. And so he ultimately understands that this seed promise will be fulfilled through the children of Abram, later that’s through Issac and then Jacob and so on through the 12 children of Israel. Anti-Semitism is nothing more or less Sid than Satan trying to preserve himself. It’s an act of self preservation; because  the logic is if I can destroy Abraham and his offspring then I can keep this Genesis 12:3 seed from ever fulfilling this prophecy.

Sid: Yes, I can see that before Jesus came but after He came how does it play out?

Jonathan:  Oh Sid that’s the million dollar question, your a great student of the word.  Let me just back up a little I’m going to get to that. How clearly it’s demonstrated in scripture.  Well, I think it’s very clearly demonstrated because you have throughout the Old Testament attempt after attempt to destroy the Jewish people of course portrayed in Antiochus Epiphanes. Portrayed in the story of Esther, or Purim where a man named Haman a type of anti-Christ tries to destroy the Jewish people. And then ultimately this reaches a crescendo Sid where Herod reaches another type of anti-Christ summons the wise men of Israel and says “Tell me, where will this Messiah be born?”  And they quote Micah 5:2 “He’ll be born in Bethlehem.” And so what does Herod do, he sends his troops to kill all male children under 2 years of age.  That’s Satan himself trying to preserve himself in trying to keep the seed from being born.  That is the Epitome  or the climax of anti-semitism the ore-Messiah. So now to get to your question. We understand why Satan tried to destroy the Jewish people and preserve his life and keep Calvary from happening but he failed, right.

Sid: Right.

Jonathan: Praise God he failed.   

Sid: For sure, but we’re going to run out of time if we don’t find out why.

Jonathan:  The fact is that he failed, Jesus came He lived a sinless life; He made it though all of that temptation. On two occasions he sweated it out in the garden He said “Your will will be done.”   He went freely as the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world at Calvary. Laid down His life for us, was laid in the tomb of a rich man. And praise God Sid He didn’t stay there; after 3 days and 3 nights the Bible tells us that the resurrection power of the Living God came into Him. And He rose from the dead and defeated Satan and his hordes and made a open show of them. Hallelujah! And so all principalities and rulers are under His feet and under our! That’s the great news, that is the gospel.

Sid: Let’s go to that million dollar question now?

Jonathan:  Now why has Satan worked then in the last 2000 years to destroy the Jewish people. In fact Sid he’s worked harder in the last 2000 years than he did before Yeshua came.  You have of course the Pogroms, you have the Spanish Inquisition; you have the Crusades and ultimately the Holocaust where 6 million Jewish people perished. All because of Satan’s effort to destroy the Jewish people.  Well here’s the answer, Genesis 3:15 must not be fulfilled yet.  I was taught that Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled with the death, burial, and resurrection of Messiah.  Were you taught that?

Sid: Of course.

Jonathan:  I was taught that but Sid I’ve come to believe and I really believe the Lord showed me this that that is not the case at all. The Genesis 3:15 will only be fulfilled when Jesus returns to this earth because there is an enemy that stills has to be defeated.  And that enemy is death. Satan is still loose, he’s still affecting people’s lives.  He’s still the prince and power of the air and ruler over this earth for those that don’t know the Lord.  The Bible’s very clear about that and all you have to do is look around Sid and see that evil is really reaching a climax. We are returning to the days of Noah.

Sid: Okay, so if that hasn’t been fulfilled totally experientially yet then why is he so anti-Semitic?

Jonathan:  Well, here’s the answer. Satan knew that Jesus had to come through the seed of Abraham. That the seed of the woman was connected to the seed of Abraham and his offspring. And so he said “If I destroy the Jewish people I keep the Messiah from coming.” Now this is what most…what Satan understands and most Christians don’t Sid, an everybody buckle you seat-belts and listen closely to this.  What most Christians don’t know is that the Jewish people play as an important rule in the return of Christ as they did in the coming, the first coming of Christ.  In other words it had to be through the seed of Abraham but Sid the restoration of Israel and the Jewish people must take place before Jesus returns. It’s the pivotal foundational event according to Roman’s 11:25. That the Jewish people..

Sid: You know that really makes a lot of sense to me Mishpochah, I never thought in those terms. But that whole one new man, the Jew and the Gentile becoming one and running that last lap as the anchorman. Boy I’ll tell you what that was worth just waiting for.

Sid: Now I have on the telephone a Russian Jewish couple that is red hot for Jesus, red hot for the Yeshua.  Gennady and Svetlana I go back a long time.  I remember meeting them I think that it was in Canada in a hotel room and we talked about I have a Messianic Congregation in Brooklyn, New York. And before we knew it the two of them were moving out there and they were pasturing a Russian Jewish Congregation. And who would have known Gennady that so many years later God would birth something with the two of you that would be in my opinion and I believe more important in God’s opinion historic. And I’m talking about we are doing right now in the land of Israel secular Russian radio no holds barred completely proclaiming the gospel to Russian Jews, and offering my book of the 10 Jewish testimonies. The one if you remember I got in a dream from God. God said “More Jewish people would come to know Him through this book than anything that I had ever done.”  And we’re making this available free to Russian Jews in Israel that call. We are then plugging them into a Messianic Jewish Congregation in Israel.  Gennady it’s almost outrageous that you’re able to reach so many Jewish people in Israel on secular radio!

Gennady:  Well to me it’s an amazing situation at the moment. I’ve been in the ministry for about 13 years and I…

Sid: Oh, it’s your bar mitzvah year!

Gennady:  Yeah yeah that right. (Laughing) And you know God’s ways are not our ways and when He opens the door He knows what He’s doing. I believe we’re living in the last days and that’s why God’s opening wide doors. Especially for the Russian Jews that are moving out of Russia the formally Soviet Union.  And Israel and actually Germany and Europe they’re filled with Russian Jews. Even Montreal where I live it’s over 60,000 population in one city of the Russian speaking people.

Sid: Well, this is beginning and we are looking into getting the broadcast that Gennady and his wife Svetlana are doing in Israel. We already have it now in Berlin, Germany, and this is secular radio and for Russians. And the Russians as Gennady said are the most open Jewish people group on the face of this earth.  In fact Gennady many years ago I read a book by a friend of mine his name was Steve Lightle and the name of the book was called “Exodus II.”  Did you ever read that?

Gennady: Yes, yeah I read that book before yeah.

Sid: Okay, and I bumped into Steve a few years ago and I said “Steve in your book you prophesied the Iron Curtain’s going to come down, there is going to be major revival in Russia.” And this was before this happened the book was written many years ago.  And you were right, but what you described the revival was the most miracles that you would ever seen.  I mean people without limbs would get their limbs back.  Every miracle that you read in the Bible and then as Jesus said “You’ll do the same works that I’ve done and even greater.”  I don’t think that that’s happened yet in the former Soviet Union.  And he said “Absolutely not.” So what I believe Gennady is what we are doing is the beginning of this great move of God’s Spirit on Russian Jews.

Gennady: Sid about a year ago when this started our television program across Canada and God spoke to me and He said “The Jewish people are still looking for a sign.”  And when I heard this from God I said “This is marvelous it means that the gospel that you preach to the Jewish people today will follow signs and wonders will follow the gospel.” And that’s what I’m standing upon.

Sid: Listen, not only does God say the Jew requires a sign.

Gennady: Yes.

Sid: And how have we been reaching, let’s be candid Gennady, how have most of us been reaching Jewish people over the years.  Unfortunately, the same way that we’ve been reaching Gentiles over the years and that’s through the brain, through apologetics, through the cerebral area. Billy Graham himself said himself that better of 90% of the people that come forward in one on his campaigns never in a church a year later.  Something’s wrong, we’re using a humanistic approach to the gospel and it’s about time we use God’s approach which has always been and He said “I change not,” supernatural.

Gennady: Sid I believe in the Talmudim Apostles they were walking in in the Book of Acts.  Actually I call it a book of Action (Laughing) and when I see, when I look into the examples of this people I saw “Lord, use me the same way.”  And I feel that it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen and this is the word of God and that’s what it is and God will perform His word.

Sid: Well, I believe Gennady it’s going to be contagious.  Large numbers of Jewish people are going to come to know the Lord according to Paul in Romans the 11^th chapter the 25 verse it talks about a mystery. It says “For I do not want you brethren to be uninformed of a mystery so that you’ll not be wise in your own estimation.”  In other words there is a mystery but that mystery should be revealed to His children and it is right now.  And here’s what the mystery is “That a partial hardening has happened to Israel.” What does that mean? That means that most Jewish people have a hardness over us that we’re blind to the gospel, but it’s like spiritual scales. But there are some Jewish people that have broken through not because of us but because of God’s mercy, I’m one of them Gennady is one of them, his wife Svetlana is one of them.  And it says this is going to happen when another event occurs.  The event that he describes is “When the fullness of the Gentles has come in.”  Then you’re going to see the spiritual scales come off of the eyes of the Jewish people. And I proclaim right now that the spiritual scales are coming off of Jewish people therefore it means we are at the fullness of the gentle age.  Now it gets better than that; in the past we’ve taken these Jewish believers and put them in boxes called Messianic Jewish Congregations rather than boxes called Gentile Churches. And that was a starting point because God wanted church to get back its Jewish roots and understand that it is of God and it always will be of God.  But there’s something better coming it’s called the One New Man and as these Jewish people get saved can you picture 100’s of Paul the Apostles being raised up from these Russian Jews.  Maybe some of those 144,000 we read about in the book of revelation.  Then this new life if you will comes into the church, the middle wall of separation comes down between Jew and Gentile we became One New Man as Paul said “The true body of Messiah.” And the miracles that were used to reach the Jew it becomes contagious; they jump on the Gentile believers but when the two come together the Jew and Gentile come together and form the complete body of Messiah, the glorious Church comes on the scene and devil watch out. And come quickly Lord Jesus.  Gennady is that good preaching?

Gennady:  Excellent! Sid I’m just listening and I’m enjoying it. (Laughing)

Sid: Okay, I believe that our Mishpochah must understand the Russian Jew and who better than a Russian Jewish red-hot fiery evangelist and his wife.  Gennady you were raised as an atheist and what was life like, and what city was that you were born in?

Gennady:  I was born in a small town of Slutz in Belarus and it’s about 60 miles south of Minsk which is the Capital of Belarus.  Into a Jewish family we had; actually my parents they told me before the second World War that our city had population of about 80% of just Jewish people.  About 20% of the Gentles but after the second World War a lot of Jewish people died. Any way the city where I lived and my wife as well it was quite a Jewish city.  Yeah, and in any case we were atheist because we were surrounded by the atheistic society we could not practice anything. The only way that we knew were Jews was by you know by traditions in the family. Parents told us that we were Jews and we knew that we were special and we had a little community on our own and also persecution. We knew.  Anywhere you go they would call you names.

Sid: Now did you know, now let me ask you some basics.  Did you know the basic Biblical holiday? Did you know about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Shavuot, Sukkot?

Gennady: No, no, never.  I heard something about Passover but that was it.

Sid: What about the Shabbat, the Sabbath?

Gennady: Never celebrate it. Never had an interest in anything like that because no one in my family celebrated Shabbat at all.

Sid: Okay, what about God?

Gennady: No, no absolutely not; I was not a believer I did not believe that God is existed and neither anybody in my family.  It was just pure… if it was something concerning Judaism it was purely traditional approach and very very little, that was it.  I grew up that way; and you know my interest was in music a lot when I was little and when I finished school my desire was to become a musician, I did.

Sid: What was your instrument?

Gennady: Well my major is drums yeah.  But I play a lot of different instruments.

Sid: And so you wanted to be a sup… did you know about the Beatles?

Gennady: Sure, I was crazy about Beatles, and actually Rolling Stones, and The Purple, and Zeppelin these groups that I use to listen in my days in Russia and I paid a lot of money for the records. (Laughing)

Sid: So you knew about the Beatles but you didn’t know about Judaism.  Okay, hold that thought we’ll be back on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid:   As a matter of fact, my prayer is that this week you will have what my guest and her dad calls stubborn faith. Because I don’t think there’s any other kind.  Let me repeat it stubborn faith.  My gust is Zona Hayes-Morrow daughter of Norvel Hayes.  I have to tell you Zona I just read you new book, and although I’ve understood faith teaching for almost as long as I’ve been a believer 40 some years; there is something that comes off the pages of your testimony.  You must drive the devil mashuga, mashuga is a Hebrew word it means crazy; I bet you really do.

Zona: That is exactly what my goal is every day of my life is when my feet hit the floor for the devil to be on alert that Zona is up. (Laughing)

Sid:   What I don’t understand is why… I mean the average person has faced death in some way or another in a lifetime, but why have you faced death 13 times?

Zona:  Well, I would say that the Lord knew; I would say in my past that the Lord knew that my dad was going to be a prominent one of God’s generals.  He knew the future; I didn’t know the future, my dad didn’t know the future.  But I believe and the Lord says in His word that the children will do greater works than the father and the devil knows that I’m not afraid of him.  I’ve been raised around all sorts of situation; nothing surprises me; I’ve seen limbs grow out; I’ve see people healed of cancer; I’ve seen demons manifest themselves, and people from homosexuals to demon possessed; to witchcraft to people that were having sex with the devil to nothing surprises me.  And the Lord knows and the devil knows that nothing makes me flinch.

Sid: Well, I have to tell you we are going to help so many people; I personally can tell you having read your brand new book “Get a Grip What to do at the End of Your Rope” that literally that stubborn faith jumped off the pages on me.  I needed that; I think everyone listening to us needs that.  And the thing that was so amazing to me and in addition to your new book we have a 3 CD set called “Overcoming Faith.”  You did this in the midst of a fight stating what you were believing God for.  Here’s the difference most people say believe and they give a little teaching but you go step by step of how you walked and how you got your victory. Very few people understand this and in other words it’s one thing to teach as a college professor; it’s another thing to teach by what you have lived; big difference.

Zona:  Oh yes, yes that’s exactly right, but I’ve been raised in a house that believing that can do anything.

Sid: But you know what you told me before you went on the air, which I’ve got to have you tell the people is… Now I remember that your father used to teach a lot on the deliverance ministry; and I had heard a story that your daughter lines up her dolls and when she was a baby and was casting demons out of the dolls.  Did she really do that?

Zona:    Oh yes, she would line up her Barbie dolls and she would lay her hands on them and she would be like it was the cutest little thing she would be like 3 or 4 years old and she would go “Come out.” (Laughing)

Sid:  (Laughing)

Zona:   But you know the Lord used my daughter Leigh when she was just a childlike 3 or 4 years old; my dad would bring her up to the altar. And one church in particular was in Jacksonville, Florida at Wally and Gina Thomason’s church and she would say “Papa that little girl needs for you to pray for her.”  Well, there was a little girl out there in the congregation; in the middle of the auditorium a little girl about 8 years old. And my dad went to where Leigh told him to go and he got the little girl in the aisle and she said “Her ear.”  And this was the Lord using my daughter in her early years and it was just a word of knowledge.  My dad started praying for her ear and the next night they brought what looked like a little piece of charcoal. That night the Lord operated on that little girl’s ear.  She had an eardrum that was dead and the Lord put a brand new eardrum in her ear and the old eardrum was on her pillow and they brought it to the service the next night.  So God he’s used my dad and now he’s using me and any greater works that I do that is what my daughter’s going to do. Do you see what I’m saying?

Sid: Well, that’s the way that it’s supposed to be but I have to tell you most PK’s, that’s known as Pastors kids.  They have their rebellion, but when they come back they come back with a vengeance and you’re no different than most PK’s.  Your dad was raise Baptist, your parents separated and then divorced; he raised you but he was running like 12 million dollar corporations at one time and running all over the country for Full Gospel Businessmen’s and other groups speaking in those early days.  And you were shuttled from Aunt to Aunt and as a matter of fact tell me that time that your dad would take you out to a bad area town where people needed food excreta and he would distribute food to the hungry. But you had a tough time with that; why?

Zona: Well, I always wanted to be accepted you know my mother left when I was 8 ½ and I never saw her again after I was 10. So I lived with my Aunts for a few years but then my dad would always come and get me and this was about 12 when I started going to Brother Little-field here in town-church and he was the one who fed the poor.  Well, then I got in high school and you know and dad drove the big Cadillac and I was known as the rich kid and it was embarrassing for me for him to go to the city dump in the big Cadillac and for me to sit in the car with and then get out in front of a poor person’s home and they’ll be children with dirty clothes on. One little baby she was so dirty her diaper stuck to her skin.  And they had no food and the little baby walked up to my dad and said “Mr. do you have any milk?” And the Lord spoke to him and said “What are you going to do about it?”  And then my dad said in disparity he said “I guess I’m going to go get milk.”  Thank exactly what I told you to do; I’ve called you to serve before you speak.”  If you can’t learn to be my servant then you’ll never last in ministry.  And so I went with him to the grocery store I was just embarrassed it was a time where a teenager wants to be cool at the school and they might see you at the city dump and they make fun.  It’s just society, society needs to have a revelation of what God’s love is.

Sid: You know as a teen you also had an interesting challenge and I can picture as a teen not being very happy over this you had 42 growths all over your body.  So what did you do you go to the doctor; you have them cutoff and then the growths they just grow right back up.  And after doing this a few times your father says “Enough is enough.” And he says “You’re not going back to the doctor” so you’re walking around with these 42 growths that had to be horrible for you.

Zona:  Oh it was horrible and the thing is the growth started out small and then when I’d get them cut off by the doctor they’d grow back and bring their cousins with them; I mean they’d bring more growths.  And so at the end when he decided that he was not going to take me back to the doctor there wound up being 42 growths on my body large growths,

Sid: But as a teenager that had to be very embarrassing to you.

Zona: Oh, very embarrassing, and so Brother Hagin had come into town…

Sid: By the way here’s what’s so neat some of these giants, these generals she was raised with them Kenneth Hagin; John Osteen, Lester Sumerall.  So Kenneth Hagin sees these growths and what does he say?

Zona:  Well, he had come into town that day and my dad wasn’t in from work and so Brother Hagen was visiting with a hairdresser and her husband that lived across the street from me and my dad and she did sister Hagin’s hair when she was in Cleveland.  And so when I walked in from school and he went “Hey Zona” I said “Hey Brother Hagen.”  He said “How are you doing?”  I said “I’m not doing too good.”  And he said “What do you mean you’re not” and he turned around in his chair and he said “What do you mean you’re not doing too good?”   I said “I got dad problems.”  And he said “What do you mean you got dad problems?”  I said “Well, you see these growths on my hands and my arms and my legs; I’ve been trying to get my dad to take me back to the doctor and have them cut off but he won’t do it.”  And then about that time my dad walks in; and of course they greet each other and hug each other because they were like brothers.  And he said “Narvel” he always called him Narvel.  And he said “I hear that Zona’s got dad problems.”  Well my dad cut his eyes over at me and I just looked at him and I just shrugged my shoulders.  And he said “What do you mean you’ve got dad problems Zona?” And I said “Well, I’ve been trying to get you to take me to the doctor to get these growth cut off.”  And I said “You won’t do it.”  He said “Brother Hagen,” and he said Narvel,” He said “Don’t worry about it I can curse those growths at the root and command them to disappear.”  And my dad to himself went “Well, I’ve been trying to believe God for 4 years and laddie tat-ta.”

Sid: [Laughing]

Zona:  That’s what my dad thought and he said “I’m going to ask brother Hagin what he does to do that, because he had that in his ministry where he’d curse growths and they would disappear.

Sid: I remember cancer couldn’t stand around him.

Zona: I…

Sid: Look we’re out of time right now.