Sid Roth

Sid:  My guest is Pastor Robert Gay; Robert has been given a revelation of the next level in reference to grace taking the Ten Commandments and pushing us into that higher level. Robert many people who disregard unfortunately the only Bible the first church had; the Old Testament.  Say we’re not even interested  in fact you told me something that you heard on TV about the Ten Commandments; what was that.

Robert: Well, I heard somebody ministering the other day and he actually came out and said that any pastor or preacher that teaches the Ten Commandments to their congregation that they were killing their congregation.  And of course my thought to that was “Well, Jesus didn’t get that memo.  And obviously Paul didn’t get that memo and either did James because both Jesus, Paul, and James articulated if not all of the Ten Commandments most of them.   Of course between all three of them all of them were re-articulated in some manner or form.  And Jesus actually takes the commandments into what we call a higher level.  The next  level so a grace you know because we are now saved through grace it doesn’t mean that the bar has been lowered; it actually means that the standard has been raised. And so I think that it’s very important that we a New Testament believers realize that the Old Testament again as you even pointed out was the only Bible the early church had.  That’s the Bible that Paul preached out of; that’s the Bible that all of the apostles preached out of.  We don’t have an Old Testament God and a New Testament God He’s the same yesterday, today and forever.

Sid:  Now give and example of how it was brought to a new level; but your teaching is so good on each one of the Commandments.  Pick one of the Commandments and explain.

Robert: Well, we see how that Jesus actually takes the Commandments and takes it to what I call the next level; a higher lever; a higher dimension. For instance the one concerning murder we’ll use that one.  He said “You’ve heard that it’s said don’t murder, but I’m telling you don’t even be angry without a cause.  And then whenever you read on what Jesus actually actually begins to tell everybody is to you either need to agree and get over your issue.  Now as a matter of fact I have a chapter within my book called “Get over it.”  That actually has to do with the command of that “You shall not murder.”  In other words what Jesus was actually teaching is “You’ve got to deal with the root of murder; if you deal with anger murder won’t be an issue.  If you deal with unforgiveness murder will not be an issue with anybody’s life. As a matter of fact it actually John later on, the Apostle John when in his writings it actually talks about how that if you hate your brother it’s the same as murder.  Well, why would somebody hate somebody; it’s because of some type of issue of anger, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy.  All of these things that actually leads somebody to the sin of murder.

Sid: Well, even the say adultery the roots are similar.

Robert:  Well, exactly and really the commandment even concerning adultery; Jesus takes to the next level. Jesus says “You’re heard not to commit adultery but I’m telling you not to even look in that direction; whoever looks on a woman to lust after her actually commits adultery in his heart.”  So what Jesus addresses there is the root of the problem, the root of the issue; the root of the sin; and of course the root is lust in the heart of man. Well, thank God Jesus took care of that; we are now new creations in Christ Jesus so now we’re enabled to fulfill that Commandment.  So really even the Commandment of adultery has to do really with the necessity of commitment and covenant; and staying in covenant, walking in covenant; keeping your commitment and that’s what even that Commandment is about.

Sid:  Robert explain the first Commandment, most believers don’t understand it from a New Covenant understanding; explain.

Robert:  Well, of course in the original Ten Commandments the First Commandment was to have no other gods before Me.  And if you actually take that and place that in the affirmative what really means is this “Put God first, make Him a priority of your life.”  And we see Jesus even re articulating that Commandment when He said “Seek yea first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.  You know there’s something that takes place whenever we make God the priority of our life; when we make Jesus the priority of our life things begin to fall into place.  I think that it’s so interesting whenever Jesus even begins to talk  about this Commandment and the principals concerning this Commandment. How that He actually says don’t seek after food, and clothing and raiment and all these things. And then He says this for after these things the Gentiles seek.  What Jesus meant when He said the Gentiles is He was saying was those who are outside of Covenant.  This is the way that people who are living outside of a Covenant operate.  They’re always concerned about what am I going to have to eat, what am I going to have to wear.  Where am I going to live; all these natural things but then He says, “But if you’ll seek first the Kingdom of God.”  In other words “If you make God the priority of your life, if you make Him the focus of your attention then all of these things are going to be added unto you.  Which leaves me to say this, the purpose for the very first commandment is so that God can bring blessing into our life.  You have to understand that God in bringing forth the Ten Commandments was not trying to cramp our style and trying to make life difficult for us.  He was saying “If you will do these things, you are going to see an outpouring of My blessing the same way Jesus said “If you seek first the Kingdom of God all of these things are going to be added.”  He didn’t say “They’re going to be taken away from you.”  He said “You are going to be blessed; you are going to have everything that you needed plus, you are going to be overwhelmed by the very blessing of God.

Sid: What about the time that Jesus said to people “I never knew you.” Explain that scripture.

Robert:  Right, well it’s very interesting that Jesus said “Many will come to me in that day.”  And I think that it’s very interesting that He used the word “Many.”  But He said “Many will come to me in that day and say “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name; have we not cast out devils in Your Name?”  Have we not healed the sick in Your Name; have we not done all of these wonderful, glorious things.  And which we are even commanded to do and even exhorted to do as believers.  And we can do as believers because of the supernatural power of God.  But then this is what Jesus says; He says “Then I’ll look  at them and say “Depart from me you who practice lawlessness.” So it’s very interesting from this particular account that Jesus begins to declare and begins to teach on. He sayings “You know you called Me Lord, you prophesied, you did all these things however there’s something missing in your life.” And that is this “You practiced lawlessness.”  And lawlessness is basically is living void of law; living without any law.  And again law for many Christians law is almost like a cuss word it’s a bad word for so many people.

Sid: All of us have heard the praise “We’re no longer under the law.”  What does that mean to you?

Robert: Well, of course I do agree to a certain degree, there are certain aspects of law that we are  no longer under.  I mean I’m glad that I can go to church and I don’t have to bring some type of sacrifice; I can bring the sacrifice of praise.  Blood sacrifices, these types of sacrifices, these types of things that were involved in Levitical law are no longer applicable to us and Jesus took care of that at the cross.  However, everyone of the Ten Commandments are rearticulated in the New Testament.  And so to say that we are in some way no longer under that again as I have already spoken about that some we actually have the Law of God written on our hearts now.  So if anything we are actually tied to moral law to a greater degree now as those under the New Covenant than even  those that lived under the New Covenant.

Sid: Give me an example of somebody in your church that grabbed hold of your teaching and what happened to them.

Robert: We had one gentleman; he was actually a used car salesman and he was you stereo-typical used car salesman and he would try to make a buck off everything. He really lived his life as a taker.  We began to teach this about learning to live your life as a giver because that is what the commandment of “Do not steal, actually the heart of the commandment is to live your life as a giver.” And anyway he began to turn his life around He began to give; he began to tithe and he began to give offerings; a very very generous giver. As a result of that he owns a million dollar business God has opened up the doors for him and has done this tremendous tremendous supernatural miracle in his life in the area of finances.  And it’s all because he got a hold of of an understanding of that I’m not going to live my life as a taker any more; I’m not going to steal anymore. But I’m going to live my life as a giver.