Our Guest Robert Gay
Sid: My guest is Pastor Robert Gay and Robert on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about what God spoke to you about grace and the Ten Commandments and the great outpouring of God’s Spirit. And how that many Christians are going to miss this outpouring because they don’t understand the New Covenant revelation of the Ten Commandments which will bring them to a higher level in God in every dimension of their life. Many would say “But Robert, Jesus Himself said “You only have to have 2 Commandments you don’t need the 10.” What would say to that?
Robert: Well, the first thing that I would say is that that’s actually not what Jesus said. (Laughing) And the second thing is I would say is to explain what He meant whenever He said it. Jesus was asked a question and the question is “Which are the greatest Commandments, or which is the greatest Commandment?” And of course He said “The greatest Commandment is to to “Love the Lord Your God with all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.” And then He says in the second Command is liken unto it “You’ll love your neighbor as yourself.” And then He says “On these two Commandments hang all the law and the prophets. And so what was understood by the Jewish theologians is that the; of course the Ten Commandments were on two tablets. The first tablet had to do with you loving the Lord; loving God. The second tablet actually had to do with loving your neighbor as yourself and your behavior toward your neighbor. So the first tablet had to do with the relationship we had to do with God. The second tablet had to do with the relationship between man and his neighbor. And so it was understood that that comprised the Ten Commandments. So whenever Jesus actually said “To love the Lord your God with all your soul, all your heart and all your mind and all your strength” that was an immediate reference back to the first tablet. And then when He said “Love your neighbor as yourself.” That’s an immediate reference back to the second table.” And to even further verify that we see how that Paul said that “Loving your neighbor as yourself actually caused all the other commandments particularly located in the second tablet how it caused all of them to be fulfilled.”
Sid: What did God show you about the Ten Commandments in the Prophet Jeremiah?
Robert: Well, Jeremiah began to speak over there in the 31st chapter of Jeremiah how that there was a New Covenant that was coming. And what was different about the New Covenant was this God said, “I will write My law upon their hearts.” And so there’s no indication that there would be so much a change of moral law but that the location of where the moral law was at that was what was going to change. And so in the New Covenant what we have now is that we actually have those Commandments that are written upon our hearts rather than written on tables of stone. So what we have now is a internal law that motivates us rather than an external law that imposes upon us. So grace can in no way separate us from the Ten Commandments it actually ties us to them even to a greater degree. Now we know that they are actually fulfilled through love but understand more to be fulfilled through love there must be something that needs to be fulfilled. And I believe what we are to fulfill is obedience to the Ten Commandments.
Sid: What one of the things that to me is an amazing revelation is that you call your book “Next Level.” You’ve see that when people look at the Ten Commandments with grace it’s the only way to live. Give us some examples.
Robert: Well, again we’ve seen so many folks who as they grab a hold of this revelation first of all it begins to change the way that they live. It changes their behavior; it changes they’re outlook on life because now I’m not looking at grace merely as something that covered my sin; as wonderful and great as that is but the grace of God is the fact that I am now empowered to live above sin. That’s the reason Paul said “Sin will not have dominion over you.” And the reason for that is because now I live my life by the law of the Spirit. But the law of the Spirit is not contrary to the Ten Commandments. And so what we have to begin to realize as we begin to receive this revelation; as we begin to understand that we can live life at a higher level. You know I know of churches that have taught and even pastors many times that have taught that you just can’t help but sin there’s no way that you can live a lifestyle of obedience. And I believe that the grace of God is greater than that and I believe that we can live at a higher level. And as we begin to do that it opens up realms to us that causes things to begin to take place within our lives that are only available when we only experience as a result of obedience and adherence to what God has called us to do.
Sid: Give me an example; take one of the Commandments and show us how it operates under grace.
Robert: Well, let’s just take for instance the Commandment of – the 2nd Commandment which is “You’re not to make any graven image and you’re not to bow down to that image.” Really the heart of the Commandment is all about worship. AS a matter of fact where it actually commands for those to not bow down to idols. The word bow down there the Hebrew word is translated repeatedly through the Books of Psalms as worship. So the commandment is not so much don’t have any sculptured idol; that really was not what God was speaking about. But He was talking about worship; He was talking about the mandate of worship and how worship is so important. I think that it’s so interesting to…as you even begin to look at that Commandment that whenever, Jesus was being tempted by the devil in the wilderness He actually used that Commandment to overcome the devil. The enemy came to Him; the devil came to Him and said “You can have all of these things things that you are looking at right now; all the kingdoms of this world you can have them right now if you’ll bow down and worship me.” What Jesus uses then to overcome the devil He reaches back over into the 2nd Commandment and He begins to actually quote the 2nd Commandment and He says “You will only worship the Lord and Him only will you serve.” And so Jesus is actually restating the 2nd Commandment which is a commandment about worship. And what’s very interesting Sid is after Jesus says that the Bible says that the devil left him. It’s interesting that when we start worshiping God how that actually causes the devil to begin to run away. I think that there are a lot of believers that would have a lot less trouble in their life if they begin to live a lifestyle of worship; a lifestyle of praise. But that is all withheld in the 2nd Commandment we can see that mandate of worship that we see dictated in the 2nd Commandment.
Sid: You know I’m reminded; I’m told that when you worship at your congregation you’ve literally without an altar call or anything had people run to the altar to be saved.
Robert: And we have had that happen on numerous occasions. We had one time a gentleman that had actually decided that he was going to be an atheist. And not only but he had left his wife and he had filed for divorce. They had went through a divorce; he had came back and visited in a service and in the middle of worship God got a hold of of his heart; God got a hold of his heart. He came down in the middle of worship and he rededicated his life and today their family’s back together; today they’re serving the Lord.
Sid: You know on tomorrow’s broadcast the revelations that God has given you on the New Covenant understanding of the connection between grace and the 10 Commandments. I believe every Christian has to hear this; in fact my experience; well it’s been your experience even knowing all of the Ten Commandments.
Robert: Well, I think that it can definitely be argued from just the life styles that many people who call themselves Christians live I think that it can be argued that they don’t even know the 10 Commandments. And I believe that we need to have a fresh understanding; and you know you think about this God could have said anything that he wanted to say to his people, declare to Moses their on mount Sinai. But there were 10 specific edicts that God gave. Well if God felt that it was so important that He Himself would come down and engrave those in tablets of stone I believe that we as Christians should definitely place some value upon these commands that God given to us.
Sid: Well, I love the uniqueness of your teaching.
