Sid Roth

Sid:  Getting ready for eternity to invade time; for those that are perhaps tuning in the first time my guest by way of telephone is Renny McLean.  Now Renny was born in England his mother is Jewish, father is Jamaican. At a young age at age 7 his mother had visitations from the Lord and was a seer.  He couldn’t get away with anything and when his mother said something it happened and that’s the way he was raised.  But at the age 7 literally a light came into his room and Jesus appeared and he had a Heavenly visitation.  He does not look at things the way most American Christians do, he looks at things from Heaven’s perspective as opposed to earth’s perspective. I have to tell you Renny although I am really enjoying your new book “Eternity Invading Time” I feel that I got to read it and reread it.  Now I’m not an ignorant person I’ve been a believer many years; I’m a college graduate not that that means so much. But I mean I shouldn’t have to do it, but I’ve got to read it and read it and then read it again; why is that Renny?

Renny:  Because when it comes to the realm of the Spirit the realm of the Spirit has to be perceived. Because it has to be perceived it means it has to be revealed. Because if it’s not revealed it’s not known; and that’s the reason why in fact that we have to read it again and again and again and again.  I’m telling you brother Sid we’ve had well known people read that book great theologians that are Spirit filled read that book and their exact words were “To get the fullness of this book you can’t get it in one sitting.” It’s not a bed time story read. I mean it’s not a bed time sit read; I mean no I mean it’s a time if you are…I just heard it Sid; see if we’re seeking God for the next level for that realm of the miraculous where we can tangibly experience it and move in it and manifest it you know you’re going to get answers to questions in that book.  Because I mean the answers are there; the answer; the answers are there in that book.  And that’s not me the author saying it that’s what well-known who have read the book have said.

Sid:  Well, it’s so new that you can’t have a great retail feedback but tell me one well-known person what he said about the book.

Renny:  Okay one well-known person who has said something about the book; Okay Dr. T.L. Lowery.

Sid: Well, many of us are familiar with him he has quite a reputation.

Renny: Yes, he read my book; I bumped into him at a book convention in Denver and we bumped into each other and needless to say I said “Lord if he’s supposed to have this book put him in my path.”  And the Lord put him in my path and I said “Dr. Lowery we have a mutual friend Marcus & Joanie Lamb.”  He said “Well, praise the Lord” here’s the book and I promise you this will change your life.  He read that book three times in one day and 24 hours he called my office requesting several more of those books it so changed his life and it’s still changing his life today.

Sid: Now I want to ask you a few questions just because many of our listeners are not familiar with you.  I am in awe of the various creative miracles that occur so often in your ministry.

Renny: Yes.

Sid: Tell me about some creative miracles involving eyes.

Renny:  Okay, oh oh beautiful. Okay years ago and I mean and I’m saying it’s relatively new I guess it’s relative it’s not that far because all time is relative. Some years ago I was in Washington preaching and I remember one day I was there for three nights it was a three night event and the glory of the Lord was in the meeting each night. There seemed to be overwhelming sense of God’s presence and glory.  And I feel that glory coming on us now even as we speak you know don’t be surprised if while you’re hearing this broadcast you’re just being healed.  And it was an awesome presence of God in the meeting; and I’ll never forget that the glory was manifesting and I think people was worshiping because we teach this principal about the glory of God for the miraculous.  We teach this principal with great depth this is what we say to people.  God inhales our worship; He inhales it and He exhales the glory. What God exhales is based on what He inhaled. If our worship doesn’t ascend into the nostrils of God there is no manifestation in the glory.  So the question is how much of the glory do we really want; so we worship…

Sid: So the people… I’ve got to put a God commercial in right now Renny.  So the people who go to meetings and say “I’m waiting for the superstar to speak you’re taking too long with the worship” have missed what’s going on.

Renny: Totally they’ve missed it; they’ve missed it because you got to create the atmosphere for the worship for the miracles to manifest.  The tangibility of the miracles is based on the atmosphere.

Sid:  I love the statement that you made Renny I’ve got to repeat it; “God inhales our worship and exhales His glory.”

Renny: Yes He does; oh yes.  See the problem is in the church that we either don’t worship long enough or if we do we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense of what we’re doing.  Because we’ve often at times worship as if it’s the thing to do and we don’t realize we’re creating the environment that’s on; sorry we’re creating Heaven’s environment in the earth’s realm. 

Sid: Let me ask you a question that I’ve been thinking about actually ever since I’ve been reading your book where to talk about the new song which most Christians have never even heard of.  But I was thinking about a signs and wonders ministry that most people think of when they hear signs and wonders and that’s Benny Hinn.

Renny:  Right.

Sid:  And of course I know Benny but also knew Katherine Kuhlman and both of them understood the dimension that you’re talking about.

Renny: Oh my Lord.

Sid: If you take the worship out of a Benny Hinn meeting or previously a Katherine Kuhlman meeting I don’t think you’d have the same miracles.

Renny: Well, the truth is you wouldn’t have miracles at all because the secret of it if you remove a fish from water it dies; life corresponds with environment.  Well when you remove worship from the church there’s no correspondence to Heaven.  So His kingdom isn’t coming and it’s not being done on earth as it is in Heaven because in Heaven worships going on.  And in Heaven everything is healed there’s nothing in Heaven that incomplete in fact if we realize it and looked at it in the realm of the Spirit that’s when it means if we realize what the worship the miraculous would manifest but we stop at the point of breakthrough you know. We either worship to fill in a place or to fill in a spot in the service but we don’t realize that we’re filling in blanks and the atmosphere for the supernatural to manifest.  We’re charging the atmosphere with our worship and I’ll tell you Sid why it’s so important when I say this because at times we go to services and we look for the musicians to carry the worship.  But people don’t realize this the original sound of the glory is on your voice, the voiceprint of God is in our voice when we’re worshiping God and God in Spirit and in Truth.  That means when you open your mouth to worship God knows who’s worshiping in the church; He knows who… that’s real scary.  God knows who’s worshiping in other words you can’t hide in the service; everybody’s voiceprint is different; just how your thumbprint is different.  If we realize our voiceprint in the realm of the Spirit is attached to a miracle that means the miracle is in our mouth as we worship God the miracles would start to break forth.  The problem is we wanting somebody else’s worship to bring us our side to Heaven.

Sid: But what if someone goes to a good Spirit filled church but their really… worship isn’t the highlight and they see it but they decide they’re going to worship God with all their worth even if the rest of the congregation isn’t.  What will happen to that person?

Renny: Worship is contagious; the secret of it is it takes one person sometimes to start it and as you start the bull rolling other people will step in the flow and step in the river of God.  The secret of it is you’ve got to see yourself at that moment in time as the person that God anointed with the Spirit of worship to bring in the glory in the church.  Then as you start to worship others will start to step in.

Sid: You know another thing that I was just talking about myself is many times the words in the songs are unbelief; they sound wonderful but there plain unbelief and I don’t want to proclaim that and so what I’ll do is I’ll just sing in unknown tongues.

Renny: Oh, that’s wonderful I do that all the time (Laughing) oh that’s good, that’s the secret because what people do not realize is that what you are confessing is what you are decreeing.

Sid: I refuse to proclaim with my lips some of the words of some of the popular songs.

Renny: Oh sure I totally agree with you because I certainly don’t do it; in fact many times when songs are sung that do not match what Heaven’s says about us many of the times I just sing in the Spirit.  I just sing in the Spirit because I’m not going to attach that word to my spirit because I’m aware that want I’m saying what we’re saying is what we’re sowing and what we’re sowing is what we’re going to reap.

Sid:  Renny, your new book “Eternity Invading Time.”

Renny: Yes sir.

Sid:  It’s a now book; if you want to understand what is going on in the earth from Heaven’s perspective, and I have to believe a lot of what if not all of this book came really from the Spirit of God.

Renny: Oh, let me tell you sometime for years God had dealt with me on it and really and truly because it came from the throne of God; it came from the throne of God. And I mean every chapter in that book was birth out of the visitation of God that we had had in one of our meetings. So everything that you see that’s in print in that book is actually in the at… came out of the atmosphere of God’s glory with great signs and wonders followed.  It came out of a miracle atmosphere.  That’s why people who read that book they don’t just receive miracles and experience miracles, but they learn how to move in miracles.

Sid: Well, I have to tell you that the title “Eternity” that’s God’s realm.

Renny: Yeah.

Sid: “Invading Time” that’s the realm we’re in it’s as if you state in your book “Eternity is drawing closer to earth.”

Renny: Yes it is oh my goodness yes because time is shortening; time is shortening Yeshua is coming and time is shortening. That simply implies that the time that we have left on the earth… everything that is prophesied has to take place in this time frame.

Sid: Whoops we’re out of time oh unfortunately we’re in that earth realm right now; one day we we’ll be in eternity realm even on the radio.

Sid:  Now my guest is a Jewish believer his name is David Herzog and he is saying by faith what I am saying by faith but it is faith based on the written word of God, and faith on what the Spirit of God is telling us.  David do you see a major revival of Jewish people taking place in Israel?

David:  Yes, right now I believe that we’re on the verge of something fresh and new that’s just starting in its infancy to touch people in Israel in a power powerful way I have not seen it in many years.

Sid:  And you know there’s a scripture that says “The Word of the Lord will go forth from Zion.”  Now it’s not without precedence the first move started in Israel; why shouldn’t the greatest move of God of God’s Spirit in history before this whole thing is wrapped up start in Israel?

David: Well yeah because the Bible does say you know the disciples “When will all these things happen, when will the end come?”  And Yeshua said it clearly He said “Not until Israel says ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”  So even if you win every nation of the earth to God but we don’t focus on Israel, He’s still not returning.

Sid: So tell me this “Why are there people that are actually moving in the power of God and either they’re in replacement theology meaning the church has replaced Israel or they say  well I see a place for Israel but I don’t see any special emphasis.”  I don’t understand why they’re getting manifestations of healings.

David:  Yes, it’s hard it’s a hard thing to understand; I think that it’s just a lack of revelation; a lot of time people don’t have an understanding or a revelation. I’ve known a pastor for many years and he was replacement theology and we’re still friends but he had appreciated our ministry and finally he said to me “Brother, man I see the blessing, the favor, the miracles; how is this happening?”  And I told him, “You know what, just come with me to Israel I don’t want to argue with you just come on a trip.” He came on a trip and within about 48 hours he understood the revelation of God touched him and now he’s being blessed.

Sid: Well, here’s what I believe the ones that are moving in the power of God you see “The gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”  You stand in His Name by faith you’ll see the miraculous. What I foresee about ready to happen and you foresee is way beyond a headache; I literally see someone without a leg getting their leg back.  Has God shown these things to you?

David:  That amazing you’re saying that because I was just thinking about one story.  In France we had a big big campaign, glory meeting, miracle meeting. Two people in wheelchairs and instantly walked and they were just healed without anybody laying hands on them.  But a third man he left the meeting early he was paralyzed he left with his wife and they went into the car drove to the hotel about midnight. The paralyzed man the husband stayed in the car and while she was getting the keys in the hotel a thief came and stole the car with him in it.  Not very fun to steal a car with the owner in it.  And the seat-belt well it wrapped around…

Sid: Sounds like a bad movie but go ahead.

David: Yeah, and the thief tried to kick the paralyzed man out the door and he managed to kick him out while the car was moving and the seat-belt wrapped around his leg or something had happened and literally cut off his leg. So he’s paralyzed and now he’s missing a leg; he’s laying on the cement on the highway or the roadway and the ambulance come and take him to the doctor.  They grafted the leg back together but you know as well as I do even if you have a good leg and that happens it’s ripped off like that it’s not a good chance you’re going to walk.  So they grafted it back; I didn’t know that happened and that night I prayed for handkerchiefs I said “Some of you have friends or family that are not here; look at these miracles and pray for these handkerchiefs send them to people that are sick.”  And one lady brought it to the man in the hospital the next day or so and laid it on his leg and began praying and the power of God came on his legs.  Just got out of surgery and they had tried to graft it back; electricity came all over his legs.  He began wiggling his toes and his feet and he was paralyzed for one and now he had just gotten his leg put back together after being cut off.  That’s a big miracle; within 5 days he walked out of the hospital; he’s still healed today he’s no longer paralyzed.

Sid: Hmm, David explain to our people when the glory shows up; I mean have you ever experienced the glory where it’s almost like a tangible cloud that you can touch and you can even see?

David: Yes we’ve even had that happen; I was in a meeting one time in Ashland, Virginia preaching when Ruth Heflin was there. The cloud of glory was so thick. I went outside towards the end of the meeting I walked outside through the back door because I was on the stage; when I looked in you couldn’t see the people there was a literal physical cloud.  Others started walking outside as well to look at it and they couldn’t believe it and it was literally from the outside looking in it was a cloud you couldn’t see the people; it was amazing.

Sid: Explain to me, what is the difference between ministering the anointing of God and the glory of God?

David:  Oh, I love that question, yeah big difference; you could be ministering under the anointing of God that God gave you. You know you’re laying hands on the sick and let’s say there’s 1,000 people and you’re starting to lay hands and 3 or 4 people get healed.  But you know it’s going to take you a long time to touch everybody, but when the glory of God comes in the building it’s like Acts Chapter 4 “It says Lord stretch out Your hands to heal.” And that’s when Peter’s shadow began healing the sick, so when the glory comes in many times you don’t have to go and pray personally for each person there’s like a mass healing thing that happens because His hand is being stretched out.  And that’s where I’ve see the most creative miracles, the most amount of miracles in a 5 minute period I could see several hundred miracles as opposed to me one and one trying to pray for each one and find out what happened.  So the glory is an accelerator whatever you can do in the anointing you can do it way faster in the glory realm

Sid: Well, I want to explain something that’s going on in my ministry and maybe you can give me some insight.  When I first started I would get words of knowledge like say a back and I didn’t know what to do with it I just hear that just out of the blue and that’s how I began to recognize “Oh, that’s coming from God, that’s not coming from me.”  So I would say “Everyone with a back problem come forward” and they would come forward and I would lay hands on them and everyone would be healed.

David: Hmm.

Sid: Then I began to see that if I would just speak that word out people didn’t have to come forward; they could get healed in there seat and so I did that.  Then I began to see that once one person was healed of anything; anyone could be healed of anything.

David:  Hmm.

Sid: In other words people are waiting for me to say a specific word of their condition to trigger their faith to receive; but what I try to tell people is the minute I have one word, my first word the glory is there and grab what you need.

David:  Exactly.

Sid:  Now is this what you’re experiencing?

David: Yeah, exactly what happens is you’ll get one or two words or whatever to start but then it triggers a reaction when people realize wait God’s here and they on their own just start receiving their miracles while the glory is there.  Many times it happens that people just drive by the church building and get their miracle and their not even saved.  So the glory of God is not just limited like you said to you giving a word; sometimes that just encourages their faith to get it started for them to believe.  And the Bible says “My sheep hear My voice,” so they also can hear God’s voice for the healing and the miracles while the glory is happening.  And many many times there’s things that we never prayed for.  I was in Versailles, France on the day the Tsunami hit. A lady just jumped out of her wheelchair; I never called out paralyzed and the glory was so thick she just full of faith and knowing the presence was there just got up and jumped into that glory and she was instantly healed.

Sid: Now you actually proclaimed that people could be transported in the Spirit; explain that.

David:  Hmm, this is going to be fun.  Yeah, in fact let me give you a quick testimony about 2 or 3 weeks ago I was driving to Belgium from Paris and my car broke down about 7:30 the meeting starts at 7:00 I still had 3 more hours to drive.  So I called the pastor and said “I’m not going to make it I’ll be there about 10.”  As I got in the car the Holy Spirit began to tell me about transportation; He said “That which you have been preaching and you’ve seen before I’m going to do it again.”  And I thought is this just me or the Lord, even though we’re in this realm we’ll still sometimes wonder.  And as I’m driving and worshiping the Lord I was there within 45 minutes I saw the exit to the place that I needed to be in Belgium and I was there within 45 minutes.  So that’s one example and when I showed up the church was shocked; the pastor was shocked because they had just finished the worship and I was able to preach.  So I was there way ahead of time; you can be transported on the earth; you can also be transported to heaven; third heaven.

Sid:  Now I was talking specifically about French Guiana where you made a declaration that there would be heavenly visitations; what happened?

David:  Yeah, we were doing a meeting in the… it looked like a jungle area. That night the pastor and I were talking about how great with God was moving in the meeting and wasn’t that great to see the people being touched. And as we were talking that night we had an angelic visitation; we both were visit by angels to about 4:00 in the morning, which at that point I had never had that happen with another person.  Then the next day flew over to the capital city; shared the experience of what God had done and two people that we know for sure; there were others.  But especially one was the pastor’s daughter she’d just got knocked out by the power of God on her own no one touching her. And they carried her home to her friend’s house she was about 16; her friend was also knocked out like in a trance kinda state where they couldn’t wake her up.  And the mother of the friend began listening to the pastor’s daughter talking in the trance like state and saying “I don’t want to come back, I don’t want to come back.”  When she came back to finally she explained about how she’d been to Heaven and saw Jesus, Yeshua, and saw her best friend. The mom said that “If this is true we’re going to try to wake up your best friend out of this trance and see if this stories real.”  She had just said she had saw Yeshua and her best friend in Heaven.  Woke up the other friend finally out of the trance and the girl said “Mom I was just in Heaven with her.”  And the mom said “Well, what did you talk about she said you had a conversation together in Heaven.”  It was exact same conversation, exact same experience that they both shared.  So yeah, these things are real; there is Heaven and you can visit it.  We had it happen recently while in Israel where half our tour group actually were taken to the third Heaven right at Bethel the place where it all happened.

Sid: Well, let me ask you something if on say I turn you loose tomorrow to preach on this subject of the glory and you also preach a little bit on Friday’s broadcast what do you believe could happen to people as God’s Glory is released that are just listening to us?

David: Yeah, I believe that as they listen and as they’re being touched and open first of all there will be a lot of miracles, healings, creative miracles, maybe signs and wonders anything can happen. There can be people that have angelic visitation.

Sid: Okay, consider yourself challenged Mishpochah.

Sid: I wish you could hear my conversation with my guest before I go on the air it’s so good I say “Stop, we’ve got to say that on the air.” Because my guest this week is Dr. Ray Strand; a Medical Doctor that has for the last what was it 7 years Ray?

Ray:  Eight or nine years.

Sid:  Eight or nine years specialized in nutrition which most MD’s have how much training in medical school?

Ray: Oh, about 10 minutes.  

Sid: (Laughing) Ten minutes! How long does the average big city physician spend with his patient? What’s the average?

Ray:  About 8 minutes.

Sid: Eight minutes; there’s something wrong with this picture.  Let me tell you what you said and I quoted this earlier in the week “That we can’t rely on doctors, we must do our homework; we must become proactive; we can’t be like I used to be like someone that buries his head in the sand and whatever that doctor says is fine.”  Because as you were talking earlier this week about the Federal Drug Administration it’s not quite as pure as it used to be because they rely on money from drug companies to do the testing.  Is that correct?

Ray: Well not only that, yeah you’re correct on that Sid, on half of the budget the FDA comes from the pharmaceutical industry that they’re supposed to be policing.  And the sad thing is that the FDA is under a lot of pressure at the present time by Congress and obviously if you’re paying the bill to FDA you want your drugs approved quicker and more frequently.

Sid: And not only that, every time I turn on the television I see an advertisement.  I’ve never see this before.  It’s almost epidemic; another advertisement pushing a drug.

Ray:  Well isn’t that amazing that they’re advertising prescription drugs, the only way that you can get it is from your doctor. And my first gut reaction when I saw that was “Why are they doing that?” Well, the study show that Sid that when that patient comes in and asks for that specific drug 90% of the time he walks out with that script in his hands. And the pharmaceutical industry knows that and so that’s the pressure that they put on doctors.

Sid: So you doctors are dependent on the pharmaceutical industry to test the drug? You are dependent on them to make you knowledgeable of it. And you’re now going to be dependent on it for them selling it for you.

Ray:  Well, that’s correct there’s a lot of pressure when someone comes in and say “I want this particular pill or that one” and we’re willing to oblige them.  And even though doctors like to take a high road and say “We should look at third party information and all of this medical information.”  The reality is they don’t spend all of this money by the pharmaceutical industry sending in all of these drug reps into our office if they weren’t effective.

Sid: I have to ask you a question.  Is there any as an MD that is a Christian; I’ve always been curious about this.  “Is there any ulterior motive for a particular doctor to prescribe a specific drug?”  Do they get any benefit that you’re aware of?

Ray:  Sid, I know I get asked that question a lot and the answer to that is a simple, “No.”

Sid: Good. (Laughing)

Ray:  Other than maybe a free lunch or something you know that they’re talking…

Sid: But someone’s life is dependent on giving the right medicine.

Ray:  Well doctors aren’t prescribing basically the wrong medicine; we just have so many choices now. I mean you look at the blood pressure medication we probably have 100 different medications we could prescribe.

Sid: Well speaking of blood pressure, speaking of back problems, and different pain in the body.  I’ll tell you one of my frustrations.  I know that God is a healer; I know that He can heal anything.  When I pray for people and when the people that are grossly overweight that have back problems God does a miracle, He’s so gracious, He heals them.  But then that problem comes back because of the cause of the back problem was that they were grossly overweight.  Or I pray for someone with high blood pressure and God causes a miracle to happen but then in your opinion why does that high blood pressure come back?

Ray:  Well people do not know there’s physical and biological laws that occur in the way that we treat our body and how we try to take care of this temple of the Holy Spirit. And what is happening is that people abuse themselves. Maybe knowingly and unknowingly and the Christians are probably worse than any group out there. And so what happens is everybody can have a healing from the Lord or a miracle. And then they go back to these old abusive lifestyles and people… what is it?  Well, we don’t exercise, we don’t move that body, we get into a carbohydrate addiction, we’re stuck on this high glycemic carbohydrates. But you know Sid there are good fats, there are good proteins, and there are good carbs. People simple need to know what they are and they need to eat them because our body needs them, that’ s the way God created them.

Sid: Now you say in your book that heart problems are not caused by high cholesterol, but that’s the main number that an MD looks at and if your number isn’t right they give you a drug. What do you mean by that statement?

Ray: Well what we are finding out, and this is something I’ve known and have been teaching and talking about for the last 9 years. Heart is not a disease of cholesterol it’s an inflammatory disease.  It’s caused by low grade inflammation of that artery.  And the healing that’s supposed to be trying to occur from the immune system actually gets carried away and this inflammation continues. So over half of the people that actually have heart attacks Sid have normal cholesterol levels and so what happens is that people are convinced that it’s just too much cholesterol in our bloodstream that’s building up and that’s what the pharmaceutical industry wants you to believe.  But as you keep lowering and lowering cholesterol it’s not the answer.  In fact LDL, you know the bad cholesterol the bad cholesterol everybody talks about?

Sid: Right.

Ray:  It is not bad as native cholesterol it only becomes bad once it becomes changed or modified by these excessive what we call free radicals or that charged oxygen molecule. And then it can cause this inflammation.  So yeah…

Sid: So, what good is the medication based on what you’ve just told me?

Ray:  Well I don’t believe it’s really all that important if people knew that they are doing. Because if you really understand you know there are several different causes of inflammation. But now that we’re hearing more about inflammation is that what they’re finding out is that the drugs like Lipitor or Zocor that lower cholesterol they also decrease inflammation in that artery. So the pharmaceutical industry now is starting to let this information out so you’re going to read a lot about inflammation, not only as a cause of heart disease but Alzheimer dementia, cancer, of arthritis of all of this.  And so we are going to hear more and more…

Sid: I mean we’re hearing so much about Alzheimer’s right now.

Ray:  Right.

Sid: You’re saying that this is one of the major causes? I’ve never heard this before.

Ray:  Oh yes.

Sid: I thought they said that they didn’t even know the cause of Alzheimer’s.

Ray:  They know the cause, they just don’t know how to prevent it or what to do.

Sid: But your book says they you know preventive for Alzheimer’s.

Ray:  Oh yes.

Sid: I mean, you’re saying so casually so many people are suffering from this or going to suffer from this.

Ray:  Well the problem is it’s like in medicine what happens Sid is that doctors diagnose much of our disease at the very end stage.  For example, when we just heard just various people like Michael J. Fox who has Parkinson’s disease.  You know that he knows that 80% of the brain cells were already gone by the time we diagnosed it.  Well, the same thing happened when President Reagan you know when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s which we first diagnosed him 80% of the brain cells involved were already damaged.

Sid: So all the medicine in the world short of a miracle of God couldn’t have helped him.

Ray:  Right. So what happens is we have to prevent these diseases and the way you prevent them at the core of the cause. Which is oxidated stress which is the dark side of oxygen or we’re rusting inside…

Sid: Which I promised we’d talk about, I’m glad you got there.

Ray:  And that is even though oxygen is essential for life itself it’s almost inherently dangerous for our existence. And so what we’re finding is over 70 of these chronic degenerative diseases are the result of what I call the oxygen or that we’re rusting inside. The same process that changes a cut apple to brown or rust metal is rusting us inside.  I can explain that process. The simplest way that I can explain it Sid is that if you’re watching a home fire burn 95% of the time it burns just fine but occasionally there’s a spark and out comes a cinder and burns a little whole in the carpet. Well, that’s not a big deal but month after month and year after year you got a pretty ratty carpet right in front of your fireplace. And so what you have to realize is that cinder is like a charged oxygen molecule or a free radical. But the carpet is our body so whatever our body wears out first is what kind of a disease we end up with.  If it’s a brain it could be Alzheimer’s, dementia or Parkinson’s, if it’s the joints you could get arthritis, if it’s the arteries you could have a heart attack or a stroke. But God did not leave us defenseless, what we have is a tremendous anti-oxygen defense system which is like the glass doors of the fine wire mesh that you put in front of the fireplace.  And even though the sparks are still going to fly you’re body or carpet is protected. And so it all becomes a matter of balance and so that’s my book “What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know About Nutritional Medicine.”

Sid: That’s such a tragedy, I mean we go to our doctors for help, they want to help us why don’t they… why didn’t you understand this for most of your career as a medical doctor?

Ray:  Well, because I wasn’t trained in it.  I wasn’t trained in preventing disease; I was trained in treating pretty serious end stage disease with my drugs, surgery, and all of our procedures we do. That’s the way doctors work; we’re not trained in preventing disease. We don’t know anything about it. And I was just a typical doctor and now when we talk about preventive medicine in like HMO’s and stuff like that; are you going to your doctor what are they doing Sid?  They’re just looking for early signs of silent disease or disease.  We want to know is that cholesterol up, is your blood pressure up, do you have silent sigs of diabetes

Sid: And you know I don’t take…personally I don’t take medicine.  However I do take vitamins and herbs and when I talk with you you just said “Sid you just go on this diet and take the right small number of vitamin and herbs but by going on this diet and exercising you don’t even need some of those herbs that are supposed to lower your cholesterol, that are supposed to lower your blood pressure.  I wish… oh we’re out of time, Mishpochah.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear God’s voice and be obedient.  What more could you… I can’t ask for anything more than that.  And so I’m so excited my friend Dr. Gary Whetstone was in Israel in 2005; he had an open vision in which he saw people marching like armies throughout all of history.  And some heard God’s voice, but most of them what they did for God was burned with fire; they might have been saved themselves, but they wasted their entire purpose on planet earth.  Now you were telling me as we ran out of time that you had the most supernatural experience Gary this was before you took the course by the way; I’m sorry before you developed the course.  You heard the audible voice of God through a very supernatural means; told to purchase a building, you’re a pastor, you wanted a church in that area you had leaders that wanted it; so you naturally finished God’s statement. He told you to buy it and you had all the plans; A-B-C you put it all together with your logical brain kicking into gear and you found out once after that open vision you started hearing God’s voice that “Yes, He called you to buy the building but not make it a church. And so you sold the church; what did you do with the proceeds out of curiosity?

Gary: We paid off the entire campus of property that we have here in Delaware and the whole ministry everything that we have in other church building we owned that is running that God did speak to do and that is continuing and we paid everything off.  We have no debt, everything is completely debt free.  We made $1,500,000 on that transaction.

Sid: Now when you put together this course based on the revelation you got on how to hear God’s voice and the first people that took it they were members of your church.  I understand it had affects in every area of their life.  Let’s take one marriage; give me an example of what happened when people started really hearing God’s voice for themselves about their marriage.

Gary:  I’m teaching on hearing the voice of God and a man is coming up with a fiancé to get married, he’s in his 30’s; beautiful guy, beautiful girl looked like everything’s got it together they’re… and I said “Did you hear God’s voice.”  He said “Look, he said “This is about… he quoted the scripture “He who finds a wife finds a good thing and gets favor from the Lord.”  I said “Okay, is she your wife?” He says “Well, my divorce is final.”  And I said “Oh, you’re divorced,” and I said “What about your ex-wife, is she remarried?”  He said “Well, I don’t know I don’t have any contact with her.”  And I said “Well, how do you know this is your wife?”  He’ says “Well, I’m divorced” I said “Where does divorce have authority with God.”  He said “Well, we have ill reconcilable differences.”  And I said “What is that, that’s selfish; you have yourself, she’s got herself and you don’t have two self’s together.”  And he said “I’m not going to revisit my past,” and I said “Wait a minute,” I said “No, let’s find out from God is God speaking to you.”  Next thing you know he’s a little upset with me, she’s very upset with me because she figured “Finally I got married.”  He comes back he said “You know, I don’t know what it is but I got this thing I went to God and I got this love for my ex-wife.”  And I said “Where is she?”  He goes “I don’t know.”  I said “You better find her.”  He said “This is… you can’t believe what you did to me.”  I said “I didn’t do anything to you.”  I said “You’re going down and pathway of emotion and flesh and natural desire and here is God and He is speaking.”  His wife was in California, he didn’t even know where she was, had no contact with her; he finds her there, I don’t l know how he found her but he discovers her in the next week or so.  They communicate, they get back together and they get remarried again; I mean just the supernatural…

Sid: Was this very unusual situation or is does it happen many times in your church?

Gary:  Oh, we have right now in the church at least 20 families that have been completely divorced and remarried.  In fact, this Sunday I have stood with a woman for 18 years for her husband who has been gone from her.  All of a sudden he comes back last week, this is 18 years later; she stood she raised her children to obey God; they’re in college, they’ve graduated, one graduated from college, the other one is in college now.  The children came to me on Sunday, this just happened just a couple of days ago, and they said “Pastor Gary you got to call mom.”   I said “What happened, she goes “Dad came; he goes “Dad came home.”  I said “Praise God.”  But he said “But you don’t understand he came home with another family.”  And I said “What do you mean?”  He had been living with another woman, had children, all of a sudden he hears God speak to him, he’s been in rebellion and he’s been in disobedience; he’s walked in the flesh and he comes back to his wife and he tells his wife “I have other children, will you take them as yours?”  So the kids are standing there in front of me and they say “What do we do?”  I said “You got other brothers and sisters, thank God.”

Sid: You know, hearing God’s voice, tell me some of the other voices that people hear when they don’t hear God’s voice.

Gary: Oh, they hear voices of logic take them down the course of normal procedure that takes place in life just what everybody does the engine of life.  People are so accustomed to waking up, going to work, doing the same things. How do you know you are at work at a place that God has even called you?  How do you know that you are even in a country that God called you to be in?  People do so many things out of rote and just traditional functionality that if they heard God many people would change countries, they would change jobs, they would change locations; they would operate… I mean I heard God, I am making serious money in business, and God speaks to me “Sell, it.”  I said “Sell it?”  I knew that was it, I was going to sell the companies and that’s what happens, people get these thoughts…​

Sid: But logic could not have told you to do that, only God could have told you to do that.

Gary: I am making hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in business and this is in the 70’s early 80’s like 81.  I’m 28 years old, 29 years old.  I finally got a national franchise put together that I owed for the entire 48 states; I’m ready to make millions every year without even thinking and God says “Sell it, walk away.”  See the voice of God is what directs us; sometimes people are looking for where they have favor, they think favor leads them.  That’s a traditional, that’s a favorite Christian principal, favor will lead you.  Favor doesn’t lead you, God leads you.  He may lead you into the lion’s den so the lion can’t eat you so God will be glorified and have vindication in a nation.   

Sid: Now I’m looking at the success of the first church and what’s going on with what we call church in America some of the… we have a Hebrew word mishegoss, the craziness going on; the seeker sensitive movement it works logically people should do it but what’s wrong with that?

Gary:  The basis is social acceptance; social networking; the interaction platform of favor brings favor; joy brings joy; happiness brings happiness; peace brings peace.  Don’t bring any controversy to bare, don’t bring truth to bare because every man is a truth unto themselves.  And as this placated deception permeates and becomes what some call Christianity, and here is the Living God who rose His Son from the dead to put the Son of God’s life in us; so God can direct us.  We don’t direct God; the fallacy is we think God is a bellboy that we ding when we ding and He comes when He comes to our beckon call.  And we are His servants Sid; we are called by God under His voice to do His will that the difference is like night and day.  There is such clarity of hearing the voice of God in the earth; God’s Spirit is speaking to every person listening right now.  You hear the voice of God; there are some that are listening to this program and you are in the middle of just.. I’m watching people washing dishes, I’m watching somebody driving their car.  I’m watching another person just sitting at a living room setting and their listening kind of arbitrary and now there’s attention brought and there’s a voice of God speaking.  There is a ending of what you’re doing now and the beginning of what God is doing next.  There is a current present voice of God speaking in the Spirit of the children of God listening at this moment and they hearing the voice of God will end what they’re doing and do what God’s speaking.  Those of you listening right now you can feel the presence of God drawing you; you can sense the shutting down of that voice of logic and reason and the plethora of constant drone of negatively.  You go from problem to problem and there’s no significant sense of fulfilling God’s will in your life.  God is changing it right now.

Sid: There is such an anointing on the teaching that Dr. Gary Whetstone does on this course; the title is “Today, Hear His voice.”  This is a Bible School course designed for leaders but the truth is everyone must do these two things.  And I have to believe that’s always been essential but if now; with what’s going on planet earth.  I mean let’s just suppose the scenarios about the US dollar are true and it will be worth nothing someday.  That doesn’t mean diddly to someone who can hear God’s voice and be obedient to it.  So this is 6 DVD’s it’s an entire course; it’s a study guide, and if you take this you will hear God’s voice.  Just because you hear God’s voice it doesn’t mean you’ll be obedient; but I believe the anointing is so strong on this course that you’ll not only hear God’s voice but you’ll be obedient to what he tells you to do… This is what you’ve been crying out to God for.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. In order for that to happen everyone that knows the Messiah everywhere must walk in their destiny. It’s a wonderful orchestra and each musician has a special part, not one better than the other. When your find your destiny and walk in it you will be the happiest person on earth. My guest Lance Wallnau has found his destiny and is about ready to walk into new destiny with God. Many of you are about ready to walk into a new destiny with God. As the 2 of us talk about what God has made real in our lives I believe the Holy Spirit will begin to speak to you. We were talking on yesterday’s broadcast Lance what this nice pastor who gets invited to speak for about 250 people connected with the United Nations. He’s thinking “What am I going to say to these people I can’t preach the gospel” what was the actual reason they wanted you to speak?

Lance: This is the amazing thing they had heard that I was an authority on leadership development.

Sid: Because you’re a pastor?

Lance: To help teach them, how to expand their capacity, to achieve their dreams for United Nations goals that they have.

Sid: Okay I can chuckle but I’m sure you didn’t chuckle when you determined “What am I going to speak about?”

Lance: You know till you walk with God I remember years ago I heard Art Katz say that he said “You start walking in faith the next thing is that you’re not knowing what you’re going to say until you get up and open your mouth.” Talk about living on the prophetic edge that’s just about what happened to me.

Sid: So basically what did you say?

Lance: The main message the Lord spoke to me is that there’s a leadership vacuum at the top of the nations. That if we will fill the vacuum with the authority of our utterance. You know Jesus when He spoke they said He spoke as one having authority. That meant that when he spoke there was anointing on His words that cleave the atmosphere in half. So I just simply went up and began to describe to them the way in which we’re designed to walk as human beings; the way in which nations were designed to relate to each other; and the way in which each individual has gifts and callings, and talent, and destiny that God put in them for His own purpose and glory. If we understand how this works we can actually activate that gifting.

Sid: Now this is a secular group mostly probably nonbelievers in the Messiah for sure. How did they react?

Lance: It’s remarkable. This was my wakeup call.  I had people coming up to me and giving me handshakes from Muslim and communist nations in these various meetings. Sneaking me their email addresses and saying to me in my ear “Our country needs this.” It had me in tears Sid because I realized that what we have as a teaching community the information, the revelation we have, if we could learn to adapt our language we could penetrate any culture.

Sid: Now they actually invited you back another time to speak at the UN, tell me about that.

Lance: The next invitation was even funnier because now I’m going to be speaking to all Ph.D.’s, the best scientist in the world from the UN in Canada; have been sent in there for a couple of weeks for special training from the world’s best in the area of oceanography, and ocean affairs or something. Here again I’m arriving there I’m saying “Lord what am I doing?” When I get there… I had a manual that I prepared for believers and it said “Destiny By Design – How to Understand Your Gifts and Bring Them Out.” I sent it ahead because it was the only thing I had in literature and the professor stopped me at the gate when I got to the college where the sessions were and they said “Dr. Wallnau we apologize but the UN and the University has a very strict policy regarding proselytizing. Unfortunately your language is extremely pro… one view point.” Of course Jesus and I said “Yes.” They said well we can’t distribute the manual. So I breathed in and the Lord basically showed me stealth bomber going in, and He just basically spoke to me and said “I’m sending you in here you simply will go ahead and teach without having to quote chapter and verse and watch the power of My word.” So for 3 days I activated these into being the people God called them to be, discerning their talents, their abilities, understanding how to communicate, how to relate to each other, respecting differences, learning how to negotiate and be peacemakers. By the time I was done they said they had universally said, I’m not saying because it’s me, universally they said “It was the most high impact 3 days of training they’ve ever had at that UN event.” The head of the department took me to the faculty lunch room and asked me if I was franchising the material so that he could take it up to Kobian and at the UN.

Sid: And this was the material it’s too heavily slanted towards Jesus?

Lance: Exactly. So what I did was I simply pulled out the antagonizing references and simply taught the word of God. The thing I realized Joseph demonstrated his gifting before Pharaoh. He interpreted Pharaoh’s dream, he demonstrated the superior wisdom of God’s counsel, and in concert by the time that was done Pharaoh comes to the conclusion “This man has the spirit of God.” Joseph didn’t go in and say “Hi I’m a Jewish prophet I need to tell you about Jehovah.”

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: He goes in and interprets the guys dream at which point the guy says “You know you’ve got something none of us have.” So it was clear to these people when I was done that I revealed to them my beliefs about Jesus, my personal beliefs and how it works for me. There wasn’t a person in there Sid that by day 3 wasn’t ready to receive more revelation on God because I built a platform of credibility first.

Sid: What we were talking about on yesterday’s broadcast Mishpochah is supernatural favor. Something you go into in your teaching CD’s “In a Heartbeat” that is really the thing that makes you tick Lance is most believers segment the supernatural of God to “Religious Activities.” God wants us to take the gospel out the 4 walls and into the market place. Explain.

Lance: Absolutely, you know this came to a head for me. I work with prophets… I’m first a teacher, second a prophet. So one of my friends Kim Clement prophesied over a man in an audience in Atlanta, and he said “Sir the Lord tells me you’re going to have a political call upon your life and you’re going to have a son named Caleb, and he’s going to follow you in your footsteps.” Well this man’s name is Michael Crotts he was considering running for state senate and that prophetic word pushed him over the edge. He went out on a campaign trail Sid he was out campaigning for 6 months based on the prophetic encouragement of that word from the prophet. He falls down dead of a heart attack. They wheel him into I believe it was the Atlanta General he’s in there for 27 minutes flat line, one of the longest recorded flat line subjects ever to be revised. Twenty-seven minutes flat lined his wife comes running in and with the prophetic word in her hand. She grabs him by the foot and starts to say “The word of the Lord says you’re going to have a son and your son’s going to be named Caleb and he’s going to walk…”

Sid: But he’s dead. [Laughing]

Lance: And he’s dead! The physician Sid called for security. They said “Get this delirious Pentecostal out of here.” She refuses to leave and she’s holding on… it’s almost like a situation comedy except it’s serious. She’s holding on to his leg prophesying, the security is holding onto her other arm pulling her out and the physicians are yelling because they can’t resuscitate the man. In the meantime Michael Crotts is nowhere near the chaos he’s out of his body in heaven. He’s standing Sid in front of a great ocean, the ocean suddenly has 7 islands. The islands come up out of the ocean and a great mountain, they form into mountains, and a great mountain forms behind them. Now here you an ocean, 7 mountains and a great mountain. Yeshua speaks to this man and says “Those 7 mountains are 7 world kingdoms, and that mountain in the middle is the mountain you are called to go into. It is the political arena, but there must be agreement.” Then the Lord points to the great mountain behind the other mountains that basically overshadows all of them. He says “That mountain is the mountain of My kingdom and it is greater than all the kingdoms of the earth.” At that moment Phyllis Crotts shifts her strategy from prophesying over the dead man to commanding him to live. She say “Michael in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ come back into your body now!” At that moment his heartbeat came back he sucked in breath and he resuscitated. The doctors turned to her… this is amazing you know doctors this is an unusual situation so we have to give them some grace. They turned to her and say “Now you’ve done it he’ll be brain dead!”

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: Twenty-seven minutes… blaming her for resurrecting him.

Sid: [Laughing] Well at least they didn’t say he stinks, but go ahead.

Lance: [Laughing] All of sudden she inhales fear and thinks “What did I do?” What do you do reverse that after you send them back in, send them back out? Suddenly his voice breaks the silence and he says “Where is my son Caleb?” The prophetic word yet unfulfilled was still in his spirit. He spoke, he sat up, he was completely resuscitated went on to be elected a state senator and the 2 of them went on to adopt a child named Caleb. Now here’s my point, Sid the story itself is phenomenal, but what captures me is Jesus says to the man “Basically I’m giving you life because there’s a purpose, a mountain, for you to take and it’s the mountain of politics.” Now if that was one of the 7 my question is what are the other 6?

Sid: Hmm.

Lance: To what degree is God not inviting you and your listeners and all the people I’m talking to to rise up fulfill destiny and come into pressing into taking possession of territory. I think that’s the issue. I’m doing a wealth conference, speaking at a wealth conference in Canada British Columbia. Loren Cunningham who’s got Youth With a Mission pulls me aside, he’s a speaker. He says “Lance did I ever tell you about the 7 mountains?” I said “Huh! You know about the 7 mountains?” He said “Yeah. One day Bill Bright and I were gonna go to breakfast, and we had never met. Our staff’s put us together. Bill Bright with Campus Crusade, and me with Youth With a Mission, and it was time we met. We had heard about each other. The morning we met before we met the Lord gave us both a word and vision. We both saw 7 world kingdoms that we were to challenge each other to take the next generation to train them to penetrate these kingdoms.” He said “Lance we sat down and to our surprise we both had the same 7 mountains.” He said “They were:

1. Church
2. Family
3. Education
4. Government
5. Media through technology and communication
6. Arts and entertainment, and athletics.
7. Financial business mountain

He who takes those mind molders shapes the culture.”

Sid:  I know you want to have a deeper intimacy with the Lord.  Why? Because your spiritual DNA was created for this. And that’s why I have Carlos Sarmiento on the telephone. And Carlos is a Pastor, he’s… as a matter of fact you didn’t tell me a whole lot about at your congregation you have a facility.  Is it open 24 hours a day for prayer?

Carlos:  Well, we’ve been open right now we started 6 years ago and so we are currently doing 152 hours a week; there’s 168 in any given week. So we’re at 152 but we are as a matter of fact this is the most busiest month we’ve experienced because we’re getting ready right now to launch into 24-7 prayer next month and we’re really really excited.  We’re in a lot of planning strategizing getting ready to launch 24-7 and our belief is that we’ll be 24-7 with continual worship and continual prayer until Jesus comes back.

Sid: Tell me about some of these amazing supernatural manifestations that are occurring in your prayer-room.  For instance tell me about the time that you heard loud music coming out as you were heading there.

Carlos:  Well, that was actually the people that… our worship leaders that open up the 6 AM day who start off the day. They of course because we’re not open 24 hours a day as of yet, so we normally close at midnight.  So one morning; I believe that it was a Monday morning where these worship leaders, husband and wife team who open up at 6:00 AM on a Monday. They came and the parking lot is empty there’s nobody is there and they’re the first ones there but they hear this loud music coming from inside the prayer-room the sanctuary.  They were puzzled by it, they were startled by it and they didn’t know what to think, they weren’t sure if they should go inside or not but it was just… They said that it was just the most beautiful singing that they had ever heard. And they were wondering “Who was in there?”  What worship team is actually doing the set right now and we’re supposed to be closed.  And they were really bewildered because there was no lights on in the building. So they open the building anyway and turn the alarm off and the moment they open the door and turn the alarm off the singing stopped, the music stopped.

Sid: Who was in the prayer-room?

Carlos:  It was angels; because there was no computer, there was no CD, there was no DVD, the alarm was on there was nobody in there. And so we began to you know as we began to… we like to word it this way as we began to build a portal for the Lord.  We were actually giving permission like Jesus said “You know from this day… from now on you will see angels descend and ascend upon the Son of man.”  So where ever Jesus is exalted you create a portal for the angelic activity and for heaven and earth to meet.  So began to all of a sudden have these angelic encounters.  So the beautiful thing is that it was staff members that were saying “We’ve never seen anything like this what’s going on?  We began to have also smells, we could smell different kind of aromas. We could smell the presents of the Lord that would begin to just fill the atmosphere.” So these encounters became almost like a sign to us that the presence of the Lord is not only there but that He is taking great pleasure in this place of continual night and day prayer.  And night and day worship that’s taking place here.

Sid: What reports have you heard about angelic activity in your prayer-room? Have people seen them, what are the angels doing?

Carlos: Well for example one of the most recent reports was not too long ago. Actually my wife is part of one of the worship teams. And the way the prayer-room operates we have a full band, with intercessors who are part of the team. And so we normally have like a 2 hour cycle of prayer and worship and 30 minutes of intercession. We go back into worship about 20 minutes and then another 20 minutes of intercession, and then we transition into the next cycle.  Well in one of the cycle that we were transitioning from worship about to go into intercession all of a sudden she saw a flash and her eyes were open and as the intercessor began to pray and agree with the music because we actually flow together with what we call it harp and bowl, the worship and the intercession works together.  It’s really a unique concept but anyway as that was taking place as the singers began to agree with the intercessor she saw an angel that was standing right in the middle of the platform and the angel was like violently moving its arm like it had a sword in its hand. And it was an exact coordination with the intercessor. So the intercessor was actually moving his arms like striking the ground, striking the atmosphere as she was praying.  And my wife said that it was very interesting that as the intercessor was moving it was being done by the angelic being that was there on the platform.  And she’s not the only one that’s seen this; we’ve had other worship leaders seeing angels in the room that they’re actually sitting among the crowd sitting with the congregation in the prayer-room with their hands raised worshiping Jesus, exulting Jesus. Because that really is the true nature of the Spirit of Prophecy, the Spirit of Prophecy is the worship and the exultation of Jesus. So we’ve seen over and over and over again people smelling fragrances of the supernatural; angels worshiping, angels interceding, angels agreeing with the prayers that are being offered up here in the House of Prayer.

Sid: Now, you believe that it is actually a partnership between man and God that is released through prayer that can actually change a family, change a school, change a city, even change the United States. What changes have you seen in Orlando where you’re located?

Carlos:  Well as a matter of fact I was just looking at an article just the other day about the crime rate. And we’re just beginning to see the crime rate in Central Florida to begin to drop on a regular basis. Even in the area that we live; we live on the west side of the city of Orlando. We’re beginning to see things be exposed. For example we’ve had reports even as of recently where human trafficking rings all of a sudden are supernaturally exposed.  And we had over 81 woman and children rescued and it’s not a coincidence that we had just spend like 3 days of prayer and fasting. We felt and urgency of the Lord to focus on the issue of human trafficking. And so we as a staff as a team we briefed about it. And we said “Okay, we’re going to pray and fast for the next couple of days.” And at the same time we had a very good friend who runs a ministry here in the Orlando area who was going to bring awareness to human trafficking. And so between the 2 of us as he was out there ministering in the streets we were interceding and praying and covering him in prayer. And then all of a sudden we get reports from the east coast where a hidden ring of human traffickers was suddenly exposed and it was one of the largest on the east Coast of Florida. And that over 81 victims were rescued; we’ve seen that before.  We have seen the police department speak to us and say “Hey, your prayers are working, will you please partner with us and so…

Sid: The Police Department has actually said that to you?

Carlos:  Yes as a matter of fact about 2 months ago I had a meeting with the Chief of Police to partner and to discuss how we can… because they said to us “We know that there is human trafficking happening in these areas and we need to be able to see it exposed; so you’re partnership and prayer will go a long way.” So we have agreed to with the local Police Department here in our city to cover them in prayer. And so every so often we will have communication with them so that we can see how we can continue to pray for the police.  Because I truly believe that the Holy Spirit has given the authority to govern the earth to the church. In the absence of Jesus the…

Sid: You know when I watch the news and I see the stuff going on between political parties and it’s congress and the senate and they’re just bog down.  And I’ll tell you what if there wasn’t hope in the invisible realm there flat would be no hope for America.

Carlos:  Absolutely, there would be no hope.  And that’s what the hope has to be the church. And that’s why I go back to it as we were talking in the previous program; we’ve got to back to returning to our first love.

Sid: Okay, we were talking about the Holy Spirit taught you that there are 3 major key heart issues.  The first was going back to your first love and developing intimacy. And I asked you about how you prayed.  But because of time, what is the second key heart issue?

Carlos:   The second key heart issue the Lord began to reveal to me was that we must, if we’re going to be love sick believers and enjoy the presence of the Lord we cannot do so apart of the character of Christ. And so one of the things that we focus here at our ministry and we seek to really in-steal in the hearts of believers is the Sermon on the Mount lifestyle, not only returning to our first love but living like Christ, Matthew 5, 6 and 7.  We call around here and especially in the houses of prayer we call Matthew 5, 6 and 7 as a constitution of the Kingdom of God. Just like the US governments go the constitution and the independence and things of that nature. We believe that the way the church can be the freest she can be and walk in the fullness of her destiny and calling is that if we live Matthew 5, 6 and 7.  We walk in the humility of Christ, I believe that the Spirit of God that there will be no limits to how much He can trust us. One of the reasons why the church is very untrustworthy with power is because we corrupt ourselves with power. The greater the anointing, the greater the temptation upon individuals, upon ministries to take the glory for themselves, I word it by saying that we prostitute the anointing. It’s kind of like James and John.  You know Jesus “Do you want us to call down fire because they would not allow us to walk through Samaria?” And Jesus says “You don’t know what manner of spirit you speak from.”  But we know from scripture that Elijah called fire down from heaven to consume people.  Why could Elijah do it, why could not James and John?  The difference is character, the difference is the disposition of the heart; the value of the character of Christ.  When we don’t have that character established and Jesus becomes everything in our lives we corrupt ourselves of power, we corrupt ourselves of the anointing.

Sid: What was the third key heart issue?

Carlos:  The third key heart issue I believe is to be in a place of expectancy. I believe that the church at this moment is not living in a place of urgency.  We are living pretty much… we’re surviving pretty much the success of ministry. So the Holy Spirit began to reveal to us that son, over and over again in the gospel I said “Watch therefore, be alert, you know when you see this happen wake up.” And then Paul’s writing as well.

Sid: Well, I’ll tell you what, we’re out of time but there is an urgency for you to be equipped in the teaching that was downloaded to Carlos in heaven.  It literally he is a forerunner and you are not listening to me by accident.  I want your intimacy with God to so accelerate.