Sid Roth

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And Tony, I don’t get it. I have read it’s too late for me. I’ve read the Bible. I don’t understand how someone could think, once saved, always saved. Tell me why that’s wrong.

TONY: Well first of all, Jesus said in Matthew 24, speaking to his disciples, he says, “He who endures to the end the same should be saved.” Jesus is talking to those that are his followers, his disciples, and he’s saying, you must obey me to the end of your lives, to go to Heaven and to go to glory. In addition to that, the apostle Paul, who was the great teacher of grace, said in Romans 11, he said, “Remember now, both the goodness and the severity of God on those that sinned and failed God’s severity came upon them. But God said on you with goodness, if you continue in this goodness,” meaning continue to obey the teaching of Jesus the Messiah, he said then, “If you refuse to obey the teaching of Jesus to the end of your life and you backslide,” he said, “God will cut you off.” And this is what he said, Sid. He said, if God did not spare the natural branch, take heed that God does not spare you.

SID: That’s what I was reading. I don’t understand. Unless you lift scripture out of context and do not look at all scripture, that’s the only way you can come up with that, really.

TONY: Not only that, the apostle of love, John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, God comes to John and through the person of Jesus by the spirit, and Jesus begins to talk to the church in emphasis and says, “I have something against you. You have left your first love. You’ve backslid.” He said, “Repent and do your first works again.” Then Jesus speaks to John about Sardis, and this is what he says: “You have a name that lives,” indicating at one time you were born again, you had a salvation experience. But Jesus says, “You need to remember from where you have fallen and you need to repent.” And then Jesus says this: “You have a few names of Sardis who have not defiled [unintelligible]. They shall walk with me and right.” And what Jesus is saying, is you have some people who are living a clean life, a holy life, a righteous life before me, and they’re going to glory. Then Jesus says one other thing. He says, “He who overcomes,” meaning overcomes sin, because Jesus defeated sin, “that same person will have their name in the Book of Life. But the person who surrenders to sin and does not continue to follow Jesus to the end,” he said, “I will block that person’s name out of the Book of Life.”

SID: Okay. What would you say, and I think you’ve almost answered the question, to those that say, yes, you have to repent when you’re saved. But once you do that, since Jesus already died for all of your sins you don’t have to repent any more.

TONY: Well let’s take a look at this. Because Jesus speaks, in Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation, to the seven churches, and to five of those churches he tells them to repent. In addition to that, you have in Acts, Chapter 8, Phillip the evangelist preaching, and a sorcerer by the name of Simon gets saved. And it says there that he gets saved. Later on, Simon sees the apostles lay hands upon people and they get baptized with the Holy Spirit, and [unintelligible]. Ask the apostle Peter if you give him money, if maybe you can get this power. And he approaches Peter. And this is what Peter says to him. He says, “Your heart is not right with God in this manner.” This is what Peter says. He says, “You need to repent of the wickedness of this thought and ask God to forgive you.” In addition to that, John, the apostle of love in 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all that’s not righteous.” Now Sid, it has been said that 1 John was written to Gnostics, a people who taught false doctrine, but the letters were written to the church. John actually says, Sid, “My little children.” He said, “You spiritual fathers who know Jesus the Messiah, you young men who have the Word of God living in you, you’ve overcome the wicked one, you children, you spiritual children who know God, that’s who I’m writing to.” And so it is very clear that the Word of God teaches us, after we get saved we need to repent because repentance is the method that God uses to transform your mind and my mind so that we do the will of God in a way that’s acceptable, pleasing and honoring to him.

SID: Okay. Tony, what about someone says, are you saying to me, Tony, I have to be born again twice? Is that what you’re saying?

TONY: No, I’m not saying that. Here’s what is the truth. Jesus says to one of the churches in the Book of Revelation, “You were born again, but because you chose to sin you spiritually died.” And when a person repents they can spiritually come back to life.

SID: Some of the counterfeit grace teachers are teaching either there is no Hell or there’s something like a Purgatory, a short term Hell, and then you go to Heaven. What would you say to them?

TONY: Well I’m listening to the apostle of love, again, John, and he says in Revelation 14, and he also says in Revelation 20, “That the people who are not found in the Book of Eternal Life, those who have repented, believe and obey Jesus the Messiah, that they go to the Lake of Fire and they’re tormented there forever.”

SID: Now what is the Lake of Fire?

TONY: The Lake of Fire is Hell. It’s where everyone goes who does not obey Jesus to the end of their lives. And allow me to say this, too, Sid, I want to listen to Jesus, because Jesus said in Mark 9, and Jesus is speaking to his disciples. He said, “If a person dies in sin,” and Jesus actually says to the disciples, “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to sin, cut that sin off. If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off.” Jesus said, “The person who dies in sin will go into the fire that never shall be quenched.”

SID: Why is Tony, why is he so passionate over this? Because the Bible says it. Why is he so passionate over this? Because he had a vision of the Lake of Fire. He had a vision of Hell. And I want him to tell us about that when we come back. Don’t go away.