Sid Roth

Sid: I have on the telephone someone who has a gift of the Spirit that intrigues me no end, I love this gift, it’s called the gift of prophecy.  And this particular person has such a precise gift of prophecy that many times he’s accused of collaborating with the pastor of a church because he is so accurate, on yesterday’s broadcast, the way he started he almost ended.  He gets up in front of a church the first time he’s going to prophesy, he’s beginning to hear some things, He’s already moved in the supernatural, he’s had a few words and he’s brought them to people and the people have said, “Yes, that accurate.”  So he has that encouragement and he comes forward and he say, “The Lord would say” and he freezes, and it took a lot of courage for you to prophecy again Denny Cramer.  But tell me about you’re a member of a congregation and you have a dream about a member, now did you have enough chutzpah, that’s a Hebrew word for nerve to bring that forward to them.

Denny: I actually know what chutzpah means, yes I did.  I woke up from this very vivid dream, and I said, well, I’m just going to go to this couple and share this dream with them.  So it happened to be a dream about the wife and in the dream, so in the dream she said to me in the dream that she was having a physical problem with a very specific part of her body.   And in the dream, I knew that here physical body needed to be healed in sort of a personnel intimate part of her body, so I said, “Don’t think that I’m being forward here, but here’s the dream I had.”  And she looked and said, “I went to my husband last night and I said to him, “Honey, my body is not working properly in this rather personnel area and I need to go to the doctor,” and I said, “You’re joking.”  She said, “No, I went to my husband last night and said, “I have to go to the doctor, my body is sick and that’s exactly the part of the body that I had the dream about.”

Sid: That must have astounded her, but I have an idea Denny, it astounded you!

Denny: More than it astounded her, but that was the beginning of dreams and visions increasing in my life.

Sid: And then you began to have very accurate words of knowledge and wisdom.  What type of things did you know about people?

Denny: Well, I covered the full spectrum of human problems, I was also able to see the solutions, I’ve always been a very solution oriented prophetic guy, but I would see things that were yet to come and I would run them by my pastor.  He would say, “Well you know will have to see,” but they would begin to come to past.  I would have some warnings; I would see something’s that were coming on people’s lives.

Sid: Now, when you would say I would see, would you actually see, or would you hear or both?

Denny: Well, I am essentially a seer, I would see in my mind’s eye a low level visions.  If I could be honest with you, a Polaroid snapshot; the Lord gives me a series of Polaroid snap shots, there not colored, 3-D, there is no audio.  I see little about 3 by 4 inch black and white Polaroid snap shot pictures of situations; and all that I do is describe what I see.

Sid: You, according to my notes, when you lay hands on people many times you’ll see, but is it necessary for you to lay hands on people to see these things?

Denny: I do my best work by laying hands on people; obviously I can’t do that when I have a dream or a vision those things that can happen anyway.  But my best prophetic work is done when my hands are laid on the candidate that, moment of contact releases my anointing and that’s when the snap shots begin.

Sid: Does it always happen?

Denny: Absolutely, someone ask me the other day, in thirty-three years how many times has the gift not operated, be honest?  And I said, in thirty-three years it never failed to activate, not once, not once.

Sid: Now, have you said things to people and they have said, “Absolutely not!” and they’ve lied to you, and then did think that maybe I missed it?

Denny: Well, absolutely a prophet must always be open to the very real possibility that they are going to make prophetic mistakes, prophets are not perfect, their just prophetic.  So your first attitude needs to be gee maybe I did miss it, please forgive me, I would like to release you from that word, it causes you any kind of stress or tension.  But many times I know that people have actually missed what God has wanted them to know because they miss interpreted, they got ahead of God, they didn’t understand the terminology, so I’ve had a number…

Sid: But my concern is the other thing, where the person, you might nail them over a situation, they deny it and as a result that new prophet or that person that’s new at prophesy says, “I’m never going to do this again.”  That’s what concerns me.

Denny: Yeah, I experience all of that, certainly in the beginning, but yeah I know there’s people that will lie, I know that there’s will deny the fact, the reality, the truth of it, the accuracy of it.  As you said, in your introduction there are people that are sure that I have gotten with a pastor before the meeting, he’s told me who to go to and what to say because the prophesies were so accurate that even experienced Christians said, “No one is that good, and they actually thought..

Sid: Can you give me an example of how accurate they might be.

Denny: A sure, I have prophesied literal conversations that people have had.  I’ve had pastors say to me, I told that person in counseling yesterday the very same thing that you just said to them.  They’re going to think that I told you to say that.  So I’ve had people tell me I’ve prophesied actual private conversations that they’ve had, I’ve prophesied what they’ve been petitioning the Father about.  In other words, I prophesied their prayer list.  I’ve had them accuse me of you know getting in with the Pastor and the pastor telling me what to say because the level of accuracy was so supernatural that they just had never seen a prophet operate on this high of a level.

Sid: Now, I have seen people that have a tremendous healing ministry, but move in that type of prophecy where they say, you know a couple of days ago, I see you falling and having a pain in that area of your body and I have to believe the reason God does that is to build their faith so that may receive their healing.

Denny: Precisely, that is what this is all about, it is all about letting the church know that Jesus is a loving caring, intimate  personal God, the Head of the Church.  He chooses to relate to His kids, through these nine wonderful manifestations or gifts of the Holy Spirit.  And it’s all about love; He loves us so much that he put these nine manifestations in this church to let us know of this great love.

Sid: Now, we’re featuring this week your book “You Can All Prophecy.”  Did God tell you to write this, was there a strong prophesy about putting this together?

Denny: Absolutely, I was ministering on the road I believe in North Carolina and I was teaching on the prophetic and a lady walked up to me and said, “You need to make this a book.”  Well, I thought she was crazy, I have no degree in writing, I have no experience, I’ve never written a page yet she came along and said, “I should turn this into a book.”  So it stayed in me, I continued to feel that maybe this gal had something; so I wrote it first in 1981.  I have rewritten it now about five or six times and the latest addition or reversion that you are offering your listeners, so yeah, I actually wrote that book because of a number of prophecies where the Lord said, “I want you to put on paper what I have given you for the Church.”

Sid: What type of feedback are you getting from people that either sit under you seminar on prophecy, or and again you make it very clear not everyone is a prophet, but everyone can and should prophesy.  In fact one of the things that intrigued me because I’m aware of this also, is that you talk about the First Church, everyone was prophesying.  In fact in the First Church everyone would have had their own television show, because they all walked in miracles.

Denny: You are precisely right; I am a first century New Testament, Book of Acts, Epistles to the church kind of guy.  I don’t believe that the Bible is just a historical record of what once was.  I believe that it is not a description, because a lot of our fellow Christians read it as a description, but I believe the Book of Acts is a prescription.  I believe it’s for us, it is a prescribed way in which to conduct ourselves, it gives us insight into how the New Testament Church was birthed and what it’s to be about today.

Sid: I recently interviewed a young man who has a marvelous anointing for seer, s e e r and in the midst of his testimony, this is Jonathan Welton, he said that a prophet had prophesied over him about this gift and for the next thirty days he was able to see into the unseen world like few people have ever been able to see.  And then of course it cut off and God wanted to teach him how to operate it by faith, but he wanted it to have this exposure for thirty days.  And I said to him, “Well who is that prophet, that prophet, he intrigues me; who would prophesy such a thing that would cause you to move in a dimension that few people I know move into?”  And then he said that it was Denny Cramer and so I have on the telephone Denny Cramer.  And I found out some very interesting things about Denny, that he’s literally prophesied over thousands of people, he has prophesied over thirty-three years; and he also has a book on prophesy called “You Can all Prophesy.”  And the thing that I love about this book is although the title alludes to it, it really is written in such a simplistic anointed fashion that you can do what the title says; you can all prophesy it just literally pulsates with the anointing and the faith to prophecy.  But Denny I found out in looking over your fact sheet that you came to the Lord about the same time I did.  I was not a hippy like you, but you wandered into a Jesus People type of meeting.  Why did you even go there?

Denny: Well, it of course was very much a sovereign thing, I didn’t know that I was being drawn you know, to the Father, but I was.  I had moved from upstate New York, as a matter a fact Sid, Rochester, New York where you’re from.

Sid: I know, we have a lot in common, we came to the Lord about the same time, my mother was born in Rochester, New York.  I’m not from Rochester, but my family is.

Denny: Oh, your family, okay.  Well, I was in Rochester in 1971 attending school and I had gotten involve in the drug culture at the time, sort of the hippy movement.  But decided to leave college and I moved down to central Pennsylvania where I now live in August of ’71 and moved into a house across the street from these two Jesus people.  Well, I knew what Jesus People were because we as hippies called them Jesus Freaks because they looked like us and they had long hair and jean jackets and played guitars, but they didn’t do drugs and didn’t have sex and they were hippies without being hippies and we called them Jesus Freaks because they were always talking about Jesus and handing out tracks and carrying their Bibles.  So I accidently moved in next door to this young Jesus People couple.  So they gave me some Jesus papers, these were newspapers meant to copy the hippie papers of the day and on the front cover of these Jesus papers were these long haired Jesus People or Jesus Freaks playing their guitars; they had long hair jean jackets and I related to that look, being a hippy.  And they said, “You know we have meetings Thursday night.”  Well, I thought that was bazaar!  I was an Irish Roman Catholic kid and went to Mass Sunday morning and that was it.  And these Jesus People, who were Protestants, you know went to church during the week and so they said, “You can come to our meetings on a Thursday night.  Well, I was intrigued to find out what these Jesus People did in their meetings.  So I left work, went to the corner of Packer and Benet in this small rural central Pennsylvania town, and it said “First Pentecostal Church; I had no idea what that meant, a Pentecostal Church, I said fine, “This is where their meeting.”  I went in it was December 4, of 1971; thirty-eight years ago about two weeks ago; walked into this meeting and there all these Jesus People were and they were playing their guitars and banging these things called tambourines which I had never seen in my life.  They were singing happy songs, they were all happy looking and I thought I’m in a church full of people who are high.  I knew what that means, “high,” and I said, “These people are high, but the intriguing part was there was another group of old Pentecostal people whose average age must have been about eighty, long sleeve white shirts, black pants all the women had their hair up in buns and these old people were also high because they were smiling; they were happy.  Sid, I had never seen, happy old people, I had never seen happy people in a church singing happy songs, so I figured this entire church is high, they’re all high; the hippies were high, the old people were high.  Then an absolutely amazing thing happened; to my right just a few feet away one of these old men, I mean he was old, one of these old men stood up and he began to speak out a message in a language that I had never heard, I mean he yelled it and he’s yelling it in this language that I didn’t know what it was, but it was intiquing because everyone stopped, the music stopped and this man just stands up and speaks this message and he sits down.  Then to my left and old lady stands up, little an old, she stands up and she begins to speak in four hundred and fifty year old King James Version English, she began to say yeah, yeah thus sayeth the Lord and I had no idea why she was speaking it in four hundred and fifty year old antiquated English, but I knew Sid, I knew what she was doing was interpreting what he had said, so that I would get it.

Sid: Well, you know what’s so amazing to me in what the new phenomena called “Seeker Sensitive,” they pulled speaking in supernatural languages out.  But as a Jewish person that had no reference to anything you had more understanding than I did, in this Pentecostal Church I didn’t relate to anything.  I went to a prayer meeting and I heard someone speaking in tongues and I didn’t even hear the interpretation, but that was the thing that intrigued me and this is the thing that they’re cutting out, and as an unsaved Jewish person and you as an unsaved Catholic those were the things that intrigued us.

Denny: How about that, I immediately knew that what she was doing was for my benefit and I immediately wanted what they were selling.  I walked forward that night on December 4, 1971 and gave my heart to the Lord.  Here’s what Paul said about prophecy in our churches he said, “Unbelievers are going to walk in,” Sid and the prophets are going to be prophesying and the unbeliever’s will not run out of the church, they will fall down on their faces in our churches and they will say, “Wow, God is really in this place.”  The idea of seeker friendly Christianity don’t get me upset, I don’t want to talk about it, I don’t see it in the Bible.  The Holy Spirit, we owe Him an apology, we have insulted Him by telling Him that He will disrupt our services and He will drive sinners from our midst when He manifests Himself.  We owe Him an apology, I was not driven out Sid, I was drawn in.

Sid: Denny, do you remember the first time God started operating with you in the supernatural?

Denny: Absolutely, who wouldn’t; it started about two years after my conversion, I began to have an occasional spiritual dream and spiritual vision.  Didn’t know what they really were, didn’t know they were of the Spirit of God, didn’t know that they were revelatory in nature, but I would begin to share these dreams and visions with people and they were flabbergasted because they were very much the Holy Spirit; they were full of revelation, no one could of told me or shown me these things, if it was not the Holy Spirit.  So I began to experience the Holy Spirit in dreams and visions and then eventually that led to me experimenting in prophecy.

Sid: Well, tell me about the first time you prophesied.

Denny: Well, it was a disaster.

Sid: A disaster?

Denny: Absolutely!

Sid: Disaster, I mean here you had been really touching the supernatural, and having it confirmed, so why was it a disaster?

Denny: Well, having a dream and a vision is one thing, but being in the middle of a church service, the worship is getting ready to whine down and the Spirit of God begins to bubble up on the inside of me, is a little different than having a dream or a vision.  There I was in front of a group of people; I began to feel this stirring, this bubbling up, what I call prophetic effervesce in my spirit and words and sentences started coming to my mind that I recognized were not my own thoughts.  And I said, “Ah, this is prophecy!”  So I said, “I’m going to go for it.”  So the worship began to whine down, as the worship leader was hitting those last few notes I began to get the first sentences or two of this prophecy that Denny Cramer was going to give for the first time, it was going to be terrific, so the song ends, I open my mouth, and I say these words, “The Lord would say,” and when I did, Sid, I completely spooked myself, I froze, I choked, I panicked, I had never hear Denny Cramer say the Lord would say, I scared myself out of the prophecy, my mind went blank, I…

Sid: Oh, I can just picture that situation, it’s a wonder you ever tried again, but you did, and you have been prophesying for over thirty-three years, seeing things that would happen in the future.  But you are called to the everyday person to activate their gift of prophecy.  I love one of the chapters in your book; the title is “You Are Incredibly Gifted, You Just Don’t Know it.”

Denny: That right.

Sid: And you’re literally called of God to mystify the prophetic, it’s a how to book.

Sid:  I’ve been interviewing all this week, Ken & Jeanne Harrington on their new book “Shift,” moving from the natural to the supernatural; why is this so important?  Well number 1. “Aren’t you tired of walking in a big circle for so many years when you’re only one week away from the Promised Land from the promises of God?  Aren’t you tired of that long walk?” Well there’s something missing and God’s been working on your character and I have never read a book that is so jammed packed with spiritual nuggets and examples and then supernatural prayers at the end of each chapter so that you will walk in the character for God to trust you to move in the supernatural.   This is it.  This is the wrap up; do you want to be on the shelf, walking in a circle for the next forty years or do you want to be involved in the front lines of the greatest out pouring of God’s Spirit in history?  Now Jeanne, you told me about how God has entrusted such supernatural gifting to you, but I believe if you had this gifting and you didn’t operate in the character that I read about in this book you would have ship wrecked long ago.  Tell me the story about your pastor.

Jeanne:  We needed a pastor and I was just doing ordinary things and praying, but then one night I had a dream and in the dream I was given the name of man that I did not know and I saw him.  And I had a whole prophetic revelation for him and part of the revelation was that he had lost his luggage and I would pull a suitcase from Heaven and all the clothing fell down from Heaven for him.  And so I didn’t know who he was or how to get a hold of him, but I knew from God that I had to contact this man and give him the word, I had received.  I didn’t even know that he would be our pastor. And so I phoned a fellow that knows quite a few people in the ministry and I told him that he had a French last name and he gave me the man’s name, his name is Mark Breezebois and so I phoned him and he wasn’t home; so I left a message on the phone that I had received a word from the Lord for him.  He went on to he was in Ontario with a conference and he ran into somebody that knew us and he began to relate how a lady from Bruce Grove had a message for him.  And the man said, “Well, would it be Jeanne Harrington?”  He said, “Yes, you can trust her.”  So I was at a lady’s retreat and I came home and he had changed his flight from Ottawa to instead of going right home to Vancouver he stopped off in Alberta to come and see us.  And so when I arrived home from the ladies retreat he was sitting in the living room and I told him what I had seen.  Now he was operating by faith, moving in his ministry at that time.  They did not own a house; he wasn’t in Alberta, he wasn’t out pastor, but because of that word and other words God gave him to confirm it they ended up coming here.  They ended up buying a house; their house, their new house is totally paid for; he drives a Lexus; he is traveling all over the world; he’s going to El Salvador this week; but I saw that God knew who the right person was and God also wanted to bless and where he had nothing before God just moved him into prosperity.

Sid:  You know, it’s so wonderful the way you to move in the supernatural.  Tell me about the time you were translated.

Jeanne:  We were in Hawaii and we’re looking at the coffee plantations and driving down a rural road and all of a sudden I felt a real pain in my heart and I began to cry and weep in the car.  And then suddenly I felt like I was right outside of the car, outside of my body into a person’s little house and it was a man and he was bent over and he was very depressed and he was in sorrow and he wanted to commit suicide and I could feel it so strong.  So so I began to make declarations to choose life, I began to say, “Choose life and I began to make declarations about God’s love for him and that he was loved and that there was hope and that God had a plan for his life.”  And I began to push back the darkness as I began to bring in the Word of God I could feel the darkness shift until I could see him lift his head and then I could see him shake it off; and then all of a sudden I was back in the car and I was still weeping in the car.

Sid:  Now, did you see yourself in his house?

Jeanne:   Yes, I did.

Sid:  Now, you know again, Mishpochah you will have to walk in the character of Jesus to be entrusted with the gifts of the kingdom of Jesus.  There was a time that God was giving these gifts out just wholesale and there wasn’t character and God saw that this was not good because His creation fell and stumbled and many of them even lost their salvation.  And we’re coming into a time in which God is looking for the people; His Spirit is desperately searching for the people to pour out these gifts.  Will they have character; will they be thankful in situations that only a believer could be thankful in?  He’s looking for people like that; tell me the story about Randy.

Ken:  I was working in construction and this young fellow was my foreman, I was older and more experienced, but he had the job and I was just working for him and there became a chance, I got a phone call to come out and work as a maintenance mechanic out at a mine.   Which would mean I was home every night which was something I really wanted because construction can get you all over the place.  And the gentleman asked that hired me asked if I would bring somebody with me and so I felt in the spirit to invite Randy, which is a fictional name to come up with me.  And so we drove out and filled out our paper work, I got mine in first and threw it in the basket and then he threw his on top of mine.  Well then the secretary comes along and she takes the top one and I think we were #448 and I became #449 which wouldn’t seem like anything accept it was a union job site and that meant he actually had seniority on me.  Well a few months later there was a situation came up that they wanted to deal with and they needed to lay some guys off and so Randy got laid off, but because the secretary had given him the lower number he decided to bump me or to force me to be laid off.  Now I was upset with this, but what happened is that it was all in God’s purposes.  In the few months that I was off Jeanne and I started a company and God has blessed it tremendously since it is still going.  I ended up going back to that site when they recalled us and started working somewhere else and God encouraged me to actually bring Randy along and set him up as one of my foreman.  Now it would seem strange that the guy who stabbed you in the back you’d be called to bring again, but what God was developing in me was the ability; don’t worry about what people do; don’t worry about what people say; the promotion comes from the Lord and he was training me to really love even the Judas that is in our midst because God has a purpose for him.  And sure enough he stabbed me again and I ended up losing my position in the second company.  But I actually had a chance to talk to him and share Christ with him; I’ve heard that he actually gave his heart to the Lord, but that’s not the key.  The key was he was God’s tool to form my character so that I’m not worried about people when their character is not quite right I can still love them.

Sid:  You know, I wish, I wish I had been given this book as a brand new believer; I mean these are areas that aren’t even spoken about; what keys to walking in the blessings of God.  Jeanne is God showing you that will shortly happen in the United States and Canada?

Jeanne:   I had a dream that there was a Tsunami wave coming and God plopped me in the middle of the Tsunami wave and I had to ride a surf board right to the end.  It was scary, it was so scary it was powerful; it was this powerful move of God coming and it’s going to come across Canada and the US.  There’s going to be a great harvest coming, but to prepare for the harvest we’re going to go through hardship because we haven’t been in line with God’s word; things are going to happen that causes us to run into God; run into His Word.  But this harvest is going to come, it’s going to be immense it’s going to be powerful and every person is going to be used that wants to be used for the glory of God.

Sid:  My guest, Ken and Jeanne Harrington have a new book called “Shift, Moving from the Natural to the Supernatural.”  And as far as I’m concerned forget all of the teaching about the supernatural if you don’t get your character in line, if you were given instantly a ministry like Benny Hinn or Kathryn Kulman you would probably fall, big time and have a lot of other people fall.  But if you can develop your character, we’re coming into a time in history in which God is pouring out His Spirit because we’re about ready to see the greatest move of evangelism in the history of planet earth and God wants to use you but unfortunately you’ve been a believe ten, twenty, thirty, forty years and you’ve never understood the world kingdom verses the kingdom of God.  And there is a distinct difference; on yesterdays broadcast when I was talking with Ken and Jeanne we were talking about, if you want to come against the enemy come against the enemy in the opposite spirit.  I wonder if you would teach on that for a bit.

Ken:  We have found and I believe the word says that our gifting can take us places that our character can’t keep us.  In other words that because we have certain talents we rise up in the places that were not actually ready to deal with and if we look at God’s principals it’s like with Joseph, God really wanted him to save Israel he could have just taken Joseph to Pharaoh and interpreted his dreams, but God wasn’t just interested in saving Israel, he was interesting in developing Joseph.  Joseph was a bit of a know it all as a teenager and his prophetic administrative gift, he used it to tattle on his brothers and what God wanted to do was get him into a place where when he rose into power, that he could still walk in humility that his gift wouldn’t destroy him.  So the way he learned his character and developed his character was actually to go downhill, you know get sold in slavery, get put into prison; everything went down, but what God was doing was getting him ready to take that character that he was learning on the downward slid and when God promoted him it wouldn’t go to his head.

Jeanne:  We were invited to be speakers at a wedding during the reception and so we came on time and friends of ours had saved us a seat near the front and we sat there and then pretty soon other people came and said, “We wanted to sit there.”  And so we didn’t say anything and I remember just reading in the Bible how you have to take the lower seat at the wedding.  So, we left the place and we moved down to a lower table.  And then the people were quite shocked when we were asked to come up and speak, but it worked so well when you take the lower seat.  God is pleased when we don’t push for our rights or want our way.

Ken:  And really this is an upside down kingdom that Jesus said, He that wants to be greatest, he shall be the servant, he shall be the least of you.  He that wants to be first many of the first are going to end up being last and so this is why we need to shift; this is why we need a different way of thinking because the world is going down one plane trying to score on a particular scoreboard, but God has a different scoreboard; and he’s looking at how much we look like Jesus, how much we develop because He has the intention of giving us authority to rule and reign, but it’s going to be a ruling and reigning according to the judgments written.  We actually have to know how God thinks and how He feels.  The world does things totally different and if we get stuck in our worldly mindsets, we’ll actually be useless in the kingdom.

Sid:  You know a good story of that is that I was reading a story in your book about the pressure cooker Jeanne, and the world says a million different things when something like this happens; but you decided to just praise God.  Tell me that story.

Jeanne:  God often instructs me in different ways and one of the times that I was cooking soup and I decided to make it in a pressure cooker, but I put in lentils or something that clogged the vent of the pressure cooker and as it was clogged I thought, I better release it so I opened it up and it exploded, went through the ceiling the lid and the product, the soup landed all over my face and down my neck.  I was in instant agony, and I ran and put cold water on it; the only thing I could do was pray in a heavenly language.  And so when my husband came home and he took me to the hospital and when I arrived there they said that I had second and third degree burns; and the doctor said, “That I would be scared.”  They bound me up with bandages and put cream on my face and then they said, “I had to have the bandages changed every day,” but I was able to go home.  I had a nurse that came in and she was a girlfriend of mine; she just jumped in my bed with me because she saw that I was in shock; but I just trusted God.  Our pastor came and anointed us with oil and I believed God would touch me, but I didn’t know when or how and as I kept going for the bandage change he noticed that there was an infection around the throat area.

Sid:  How bad was the pain?

Jeanne:  It was extreme, it was extreme I would just have the pray in the Spirit I could not get any relief.  They gave me pain killers; it was very extreme pain, because your face is very tender.  And I would have to come in everyday to the hospital; have the bandages rechanged and redressed and finally after a week or two I noticed my face beginning to look like fruit leather and it was horrible it was all down the left side of my face and down the left neck area.  And after a couple of weeks I said,  “Okay Lord if this is how you want me to look I can receive that, but I’m okay with that.”  And the Lord said, “Pick up a cotton ball” and I picked up a cotton ball and I began to wipe my face off and as I did the big thick brown skin fell off and underneath was white skin not even red or pink; but just normal skin.  And then somebody once said to me, “Well maybe you healed faster, maybe you just heal really well” and in a couple of weeks later, I took out a tray of cookies out of the oven, burnt my arm a little bit and that scar lasted a year.  And so God really showed me He loves us; He wants to heal us, but we have to let Him do it His way.

Sid:  What did the doctors have to say about your healing? 

Jeanne:  They were shocked, they didn’t even believe I was the same person, because they had never see me without the burn and so then the doctor didn’t know what to make of it; because he said second and third degree burn.

Sid:  Well, Ken and Jeanne you say things that I’ve never heard people say before in your book; “Use your brokenness to bring healing, your former poverty to bring wealth and your former sickness to bring health.”  What do you mean by that?

Jeanne:  You have authority when you have had victory over something, I had cancer and survived it and I now pray for people with cancer and have faith to believe that they will be healed.  If we have walked in poverty…

Sid:  Okay, just out of curiosity according to my information here you prayed for five people with brain tumors that were healed?

Jeanne:  The doctors told each one they had a brain tumor and when I laid hands on them I didn’t believe it, I believed that it was a lying wonder and I said, “No, God says you don’t have a brain tumor.”  They went back each one and each one was totally clear, they never had brain tumors; never needed operations; never needed chemo therapy.

Sid:  You also talk about it’s very very important to be obedient.  Tell me about the time you were driving your children and all of a sudden you saw two angels.

Jeanne:  I was kind of afraidy cat driver; and we were driving in a remote area in Canada in the woods area near Rocky Mountain House and I was listening to tapes and they were teaching tapes and all of a sudden I looked at the side of the road and I saw these two kind of translucent beings, so I knew that were really peopled there, but I saw them with my visual eyes and they were holding this big sign out and the sign said, “Danger!”  And immediately after I saw that I heard the tape describe in Psalms how the Angels are there to perform the word of God.  So quickly I invited the Angels into the car and I could feel them come in from the roof and down and as they came in this great big tanker truck with an extra trailer on it brand new shinny just zipped past us and I thought, oh, I got to pray for protection so I began declaring the Psalms and Psalms 39 and praying for protection.  And then that tankard truck turned on to Highway 22 where I was supposed to go, but for whatever reason I decided to just take the dog for a little walk and then I decided to go into the town a little further ahead and gas up even though I didn’t need gas and get some snacks for the kids.  And so then after about a half hour maybe an hour we drove back down toward Highway 22 and as were coming out and on to Highway 22 after a couple of miles this torrential rain started to come and it was so strong I could barely see out of the window, but I had remembered the warning of danger so I kept praying, kept declaring scriptures.  And all of a sudden, we saw lights flashing; and then we saw that there were emergency vehicles all over; that tankard had flipped over and been across the highway and had I followed it I would have not been able to have diverted the problem.   So I thank God that He sends His angels and I thank God that they alerted me and told me that there was danger ahead and then for whatever reason I had no compulsion to go right away home.

Sid:  You know there’s so many things in your book “Shift” I’m convinced because of the great outpouring of God’s Spirit that we must shift our thinking; and you hit so many bull eyes.  For instantaneous you talk about accepting responsibility even if you are only one percent wrong, why?

Ken:  Yeah, we can’t change everybody else, we can only change ourselves and so…

Sid:  But my flesh would rebel if I was 99% right!

Ken:  Well, my flesh down too, but my spirit doesn’t; because my spirit says “No, do this.”  There’s a verse in 1 Peter 2:20 it says that eventually, it says that if we do what’s right and suffer for it, this is acceptable with God.  So God actually said that there is a formula there, it’s saying do what’s right, let’s take you responsibility minus your rights equals favor with God.