Sid Roth

Sid:  You know the presence of God is so strong I was ready to do my normal introduction and I just had to say, “Holy Spirit thank you for being on this show in such an awesome way.”  My guest is Billy Burke and we’ve been talking about the difference between the gift of the working of miracles and say exclusively just standing on the word and both are great.  But I want to understand this gift of the working of miracles, Billy.  Let’s take an example, Kenneth Copeland, you had an opportunity to minister to Kenneth’s grandson tell me about that.

Billy:  I believe, it was I’m not sure that it was a grandson; I believe yeah, it was his daughter’s stepson.  Well to my knowledge, I don’t believe the grandson was actually there, the daughter came back into the green room after one of the meetings and he was scheduled for surgery, he had a hole in his heart, and he came back and wanted prayer for that incident that God would step in and intervene and heal that hole in the heart.  You know, we’ve seen many, many great miracles at the Eagle Mountain Church there in Forth Worth, and what a great place to be.  So she came back and we prayed and…

Sid:  And as you’re just saying that, we have seen many miracles, I am feeling such a presence, just waves of the miracles power of God, just as you’re saying that.  I’m just curious, are you feeling that too?

Billy:  I do Sid, and pain is leaving, there’s cycles of pain leaving all over, there’s fibroid tumors being healed, fibroid tumors are being healed right now and synaptic nerves being healed, fibromyalgia being healed,  osteoporosis is being healed; there is an anointing  flowing, a stream flowing right now.

Sid:  It’s almost as if, I like the way you say it is a stream, almost like I feel I can take my hand and put it in that stream and whatever I need, it’s mine!

Billy:  It’s amazing Sid, and that’s what God does.  He creates that atmosphere for people who can’t maybe get there themself to jump in to get it.  That’s the whole purpose of the word of knowledge.

Sid:  Okay, so what was wrong with this Kenneth Copeland’s daughter’s stepson?   

Billy:  Well, he was born with a hole in the heart I believe if I understand correctly that diagnosis, I don’t know the exact medical term for it.  But long story short that when they took him to the doctor and they were going to do the surgery they took a pre-ops x-ray and he was healed.  The hole in the heart had been closed up and it was creative and the doctor said, “Man what happened here and it was a creative miracle in the Copeland family.

Sid:  Tell me about that woman that fell four stories and then a man fell on top of her and what happened to the man? 

Billy:  He was severed in half, his torso was severed.

Sid:  Oh no!

Billy:  His torso was severed and he laid dead on top of her and she was on these pylons, she fell four stories I believe it was, broke everything that you could break in your back and they brought her to a meeting.  That was at Eagle Mountain Church and George Pearson’s the pastor then; that is Kenneth Copeland’s son-in-law.  Great great church and they brought her to the meeting and I prayed for her and she fell under the power twice, but she still maintained the pain and she was in excruciating pain.  I mean beyond belief nothing was helping her, not even morphine I believe if I’m understanding correctly.  So I took my microphone off and I went into her ear as I do a lot in meetings because people don’t need to hear what I’m saying.  We never mean to embarrass anybody but often times we got to grow faith.  See that’s the key, people if you are listening to me, don’t ever be offended if you don’t ever have enough.  If you don’t have enough money, what do you do, you borrow, if you don’t have enough sugar you go to your neighbor and say “Can I have a cup of sugar?”  And God grows faith, its unlimited there’s unlimited faith is available, but we have to grow it because we get caught sometimes in situation where our faith has to grow to meet the obstacle we are facing, cause we didn’t know that we were going to face that obstacle obviously.  So I took my microphone off and I whispered in her ear and I said, “Look I felt the power go through me into you and I said you are going to go to bed one way and wake up another way.”  She just looked at me, she was in so much pain and so she hobbled out of that meeting that night, they helped her out of there.  And the very next night we were capturing testimonies and there she was, bright eyes bushy tailed smiling and she came up and said, “I have no more pain, I went to bed one way and I woke up another way.” So it took the healing and the prophetic word, the prayers twice, the prophetic word and sometimes Sid, that’s the key, we just don’t know; we just don’t know what all it’s going to take. 

Sid:  You’ve had some pretty outrageous things happen, tell me about the woman whose hair changed colors.

Billy:  That was a woman in Pittsburgh, she had been making fun of me in the meeting, she was mocking the service and mocking the miracles and she became pretty obnoxious and I said, “Maim, what’s the matter?” She said, “You’re ridiculous, this isn’t real and it was just one of those kairos moments, you know those sovereign moments where I said to her kind of what Jesus said to Thomas, “What’s it going to take for you to believe?”  Remember he said, “What’s it going to take?”  Because He really was reaching out to try to persuade Thomas and Thomas was just drifting away, the more he saw the less he believed, because he believe his eyesight and not his faith.  And I said to the woman, “What’s it going to take for you to believe?”  And she said, “Really,” she said, “Really this is crazy.”  And I said, “Well, I see you have salt and pepper hair.” She said, “Yes,” and I said, “What about when I count to three and if your hair goes back to its original color?  And she said, “You’re going to count to three and my hair is going to its original color?     

Sid:  Wait a second, “Was that just a faith proclamation or did you hear that in your spirit?”

Billy:  “That was a faith proclamation.”

Sid:  “Oh, my goodness.”

Billy:  After I said it, I inside I said, “Oh, God help me I’m out here on a limb.”

Sid:  Ha-ha.

Billy:  And so often that’s what miracles, see here’s the thing Sid, where the church has done us a great injustice, everything has to be lined up for a miracle to happen.  In the Bible miracles flourished when circumstance and situations weren’t good.  How much worse can they get whenever a man says, “I believe, but I don’t believe, help my unbelief?”  It can’t get worse than that but Jesus still did it!  And somehow we’ve got to be careful that we don’t teach everything has got to be just right for God to move.  All that I say is, “Cry out to him, reach out to him, get in the line of fire; get in somewhere where somebody believes more than what you do.”  Anyhow that’s what happened in this case, well I counted to three.  Long story short and I was afraid because I thought oh boy, but you know God wants us to be in positions where we need Him.  He wants to give you dreams you can’t pay for, He wants to give you ideas you don’t even have the connections to get them.  How supernatural is it if you can pay for it?  How supernatural is it if you have all of the right people to bring it about.  God wants to give you things you can’t do, things you can’t perform, things you can’t pay for. And He wants to show you that I can do this through you and then I can get all the glory.  And so it’s allowing ourself to be in vulnerable positions to where we can’t heal anybody.  I can’t heal a person, but if I can get in a position where I can reach out and give myself over to Him and get in vulnerable position is where I can be criticized, my name can be drug through the mud you know.  And she said, “Okay I can’t wait to see this,” and she was making a big deal about it.  And I said, One, two, and I stayed on two a little bit long.

Sid:  I don’t blame you.

Billy:  A little bit too long and I mean people were looking at me and I said, “Three and I remember vividly the lady behind her said, “Oh, my God!”  And her hair changed back to her original color and she got born again that night.

Sid:  What about the blind girl, who literally the color of her eyes changed. Tell me about that.

Billy:  It was a young girl they brought to one of our meetings in Alabama years ago and she was probably about fifteen, sixteen years old if I remember correctly.  Afro-American girl, sweet girl, but they drove her from excuse me, from Atlanta, Georgia she belongs to a mega church there. And they brought her in and her eyes were brown in color, but they had that white film over them that you see a lot of blind people have.  The while film all over the eye, but underneath that you can see the brown eye.  And she came to the altar near the end of the meeting and the power of God hit this young girl, she went under the power, when she was laying there on the floor she began to scream, “I can see, I can see.”  So we all ran over there, there she was, “Oh my God, I can see you, I can see you.”  We were watching and we were enjoying watching her express that and then all of a sudden someone said, and here her eyes were turning green and the whole color of her eye went to brown into a real pretty jade color.  And I said, “Oh my word.”  And then we got a mirror and looked and everything and she was just one happy, I mean people today buy contacts to change the colors of their eyes.

Sid: So she not only got her vision back, but the color of eye changed from brown to green.

Billy:  From like a brown to like a jade, I guess jade would be more appropriate, but I don’t want to make her sound like an alien, but yeah.

Sid:  Now you see creative miracles.  Tell me a few real quick.

Billy:  Yeah, well gosh we’ve seen a lady that had no stomach you know and her stomach had been removed by doctors, she had no pouch and that was created.

Sid:  Now, was that verified?

Billy:  We have documentation on that, yes.

Sid:  And as a matter of fact you go to a lot of lengths to really document things.  What do you do?

Billy:    This has been all progressive Sid, because you know years and years ago we didn’t, didn’t know the value of that.  But really dealing today with all of the credibility issues we started to take great precaution in all of our meetings.  And it’s very hard to document everything medically.  We try to do the very best we can, but if you are in a meeting of thousands of people, it is very hard.  We may have anywhere from 500 people to 1,000 people a night get healed.  We don’t have enough staff…

Sid:  Oh, I’m sorry we are out of time, I urge you to be back tomorrow. 

Sid:  And my guest can’t help but be red hot for the Messiah, he is seeing so many what the rabbi’s refer to as “Messianic Miracles,” people blind, getting their sight, deaf able to hear, people in wheelchairs walking, people having bodily organs that have been cut out by surgery recreated, I mean miracles that most people just read about.  But I want to find out how this happened.  Now Billy Burke went to Bible school after nine years of age going to a Kathryn Kulman service and having terminal brain cancer healed.  He only had three days to live, and he was instantly healed and he experienced and outpouring of God’s power that was so strong that three rows of people in the congregation fell out of their chairs, fell over backwards it was such an outpouring of the power of God.  But when you went to Bible school, you graduated from Melodyland School of Theology in California, and you saw healings and you had a successful healing ministry.  But nothing compared to what happened to you, nothing compared to what happened at age nine and I asked Billy before we went on the air, “Was there a particular point that you moved from aches and pains and healings to the miraculous?”  And he said, “Yes,” he said, “He had just come back from a meeting in Ligonier Pennsylvania and there was a message on his tape recorded answering machine.  Tell me about Billy.”

Billy:  We had a…they had rented the town hall in Ligonier, it was packed out that night and there were a few people there that had had hearing loss that were deaf that were healed, there was a lot of arthritis, a lot of varied forms of diseases and maladies that were healed that night and I was happy with that meeting.  But I came home and my answering machine was blinking and when I turned it on a voice came over the answering machine that said “Hey, hotshot you think you’re really something, you think that you can heal people, well how’s come no blind people were healed?  Why don’t you come down with me to the Blind Association tomorrow in Pittsburgh and see if you can heal some blind people?”  And I of course turned the machine off, I knew that voice was not a natural voice; I knew that voice was demonically inspired and so I tried to dismiss it, because it was very accusatory, very unedifying, very condemning.  But yet when I walked away from it and sat at my desk there in my home, I realized that there was a strain of truth in it and that was up until that point I hadn’t seen anybody blind healed and it bothered me.  And I thought well even though I didn’t like the way that was said, it was condemning; still there was an element of truth.  And I remember closing my Bible and I began to just cry physically cry and I said, “Lord why, why am I not seeing more,” and I began to cry out and I think we all have the potential to cry out to God.  He delivered them out of Egypt when He heard their cry, when their cry came before Him.  And it takes a long time for our cry to get vertical, Sid.  We cry within our self; we cry to other people, it took 400 years to bring the Jewish people out of captivity in Egypt.  Why, He said it took 400 years for their cry to get vertical.  Getting vertical is not always the easiest thing to do when we cry to Him and I began to cry to Him and say “Lord, if you are going to keep me in this Miracle Healing Ministry I’ve got to see more than what I’m seeing.”  And I didn’t realize at the time, but I was hungering and thirsting for more, more manifestation, more demonstration.  Because we can all get comfortable, we can all get accepted at a certain level, we can get by, we can please a crowd, we can help some people.

Sid:  But you were at that point!

Billy:  Yeah, we had seen a lot of people helped.

Sid:  So, why weren’t you just content, why were you so hungry for more?

Billy:  I think if you read the Bible for long enough if you begin to realize that book is so supernatural.  The Bible was never suppose to make sense, it was suppose to make faith and if you read the Bible for it to make sense it is the wrong book to read.  But if you read the Bible to make faith it will expand you without you even really realizing it because the whole book is just about Jesus made wine without grapes.  You know Abraham had no more sperm and Sarah had no eggs, but they had a baby.  So the whole book is beyond our natural laws, it’s beyond the way we operate in the natural realm; it is another kingdom that operates by other laws.  And all of a sudden you ingest that and you begin to realize there has got to be more, there’s got to be more.  And of course the Apostle Paul said, “Eye has not seen nor has ear heard the things that God has for them that love him,” but he finishes by saying, “But the Spirit is revealing them to us.”

Sid:  At that moment Billy, “How desperate were you for more of God?”

Billy:  Desperate Sid, because I didn’t like the fact that someone was on my answering machine saying, “Hey, thus and so and I’m thinking yeah Lord, You know I don’t like the way he said that, but he is right.”  You know, how’s come I’m not seeing that?”  And sometimes we accept so many things in life Sid, we accept so many things that God wants us not to accept.  And that began my journey, I began to cry out, “God I got to see more, I’ve got to see more” and it was not long after that a couple of weeks after that I was in Southern California…

Sid:  You know just out of curiosity, I mean I want to go back to this, because I’ve have heard this testimony from others, I’ve heard Rodney Howard Brown say, He walked into his bedroom and he said, “I’m not going to eat or drink or leave this room until either I go to you or you come to me!”  Was that what was going on inside of you?

Billy:  Yeah, yeah I think like the woman that touched His hem, many were touching Him, but one made a demand on the anointing and I think you can make a demand on the anointing, I think that it’s here to be demanded, to be extracted.  I think that it’s so more acceptable than what we are being taught.  Remember we only grow as much as our mentors can take us.  And you know, we are supposed to have the Spirit without measure.  I don’t want the double portion of the Old Testament, I don’t want; you know what Elisha said “I want a double portion.”  I don’t want a double portion, I want the new covenant I want the Spirit without measure.  Would you rather have two of something or unlimited measure of something?”   And I think that, again it goes back to that word and what you are reading, and yeah so the cry said, “There’s more than I’m seeing here!”

Sid:  Okay, so you are crying out desperately from your inner, from every fiber of your being, “I’ve got to have more!” I mean almost can I say, almost like a madman?

Billy:  Yes, yes, because everything in that Bible, everything in the Word of God is predicated by hunger and thirst.

Sid:  Okay, so you go to a meeting, you’re recognized because you graduated from the college at Melody land, Pastor Wilkerson tells you to stand up on one side and pray for people and he’s praying for people on the other side.  And the first person you get ..,

Billy:  Is a blind person.

Sid:  Oh, evay!  What did you think?

Billy:  I was happy about it because I thought, “Wow here I am back at the school I graduated from in a great public church; there’s about a thousand people at the altar being prayed for.  I’m helping out a man that I really respect and I really regard highly you know who helped me, be a father to me and I wanted to impress, you know that’s just human nature.  And because I had seen a lot of great miracles and healings up until then and I mean a lot of them, a lot people healed of cancer and deaf ears but never a blind person till that point and this is only two weeks now after the answering machine incident, two weeks after I had cried out to Him and here I am with this first chance to pray for a blind person and Sid, her eyes came open so easily, so easily, so easily I was shocked!  She said, “I can see, oh my God I can see.”  I said, “You can,” and I yelled over to Pastor Wilkerson, I said, “Pastor Ralph, she can see.”  He said, “I’m so glad, get over here we’ve got another one.”

Sid:  Well, how about that other one could she see?

Billy:  I went there and it was a man, the first one was a woman the second was a man and he was blind and his eyes came open.

Sid:  I still want to take you back to when you were crying out, did you feel anything unusual, did you feel you had reached something or did you…

Billy:  Yes, I do believe that there’s a level of satisfaction you know, Bartimaeus cried out, have mercy, he cried.  I think so many times we don’t express ourselves completely to God.  I think you know there is a reason why we have tear ducts; there is a reason why we have a heart and a soul.  There is a reason why, and He said when you love me with all of your mind, and heart and soul, I do think that when you reach a level of yes, I’ve touched Him, you know it.  I believe you can know it.  I don’t believe that it’s just empty space; I don’t believe it’s just well I’m crying out to God.  I believe you walk away realizing I touched God.  Remember the woman with the issue, He didn’t touch her; she touched Him.

Sid:  What would you consider the greatest miracle you have seen and you’ve see many, I’ve got pages of them.  But if I forced you, which would it be?

Billy:  Well, that’s a loaded question, that is so loaded, I mean I have seen some amazing things, I have seen cancers fall off, I’ve seen people come to the alter after running to the laboratory.  We had a meeting Porto Rico, they were holding cancers in their hand, tumors.

Sid:  Is cancer, Kathryn Kulman used to say, “Arthritis is easy for me,” until a doctor walked up to and said, “Madam, do you know that there’s no cure for arthritis?”  Are cancers easy under the anointing?

Billy:  Yes, you’re saying something that’s so true and that is to each person, what they have is monumental you know and so we see so many people healed of fibromyalgia, osteoporosis, synaptic nerves, curvature of the spine…  

Sid:  Oops, I’m sorry were running out of time, I’m going to turn Billy loose on tomorrow’s broadcast, I’ll tell you what, I’m sensing such a presence of God.

Sid:  If you heard yesterday’s broadcast and for some strange reason you didn’t hear it, you better go to our web page, Sidroth.org, Sidroth.org.  Because we found out from Billy Burke that as a young nine year old, he just had days to live.  He had terminal brain cancer and he didn’t know anything about the healing ministry, the charismatic movement, any of these things.  He was in a nice evangelical church.  But his grandmother knew, she watched Kathryn Kulman who had one of the greatest healing ministries of her day, maybe of any day short of Jesus!  And she would watch Kathryn on TV and somehow she had it in her heart that her grandson Billy Burke who was nine years of age that only had a few days to live.  Was it difficult for her to get a nine year old out of the hospital that had days to live with terminal brain cancer Billy?

Billy:  Yeah, it was.  They had a little go around with the doctors and the officials there, but she was fully persuaded at that time. 

Sid:  I’m amazed that she even convinced your parents to do it.

Billy:  That’s what she had to do it, because they were my legal guardians, but she had evidently looking back at it as we would say today, she must have had a clear Word, a God breathe Word from the Lord.

Sid:  Okay, the whole time and it was a few days, she gets you out a few days before the service she going to take you to and you’re in horrible shape.  The cancer had spread to your lungs, your neck, you had lumps all over your body, you lost your motor skills, your eyes you had a patch over one of your eyes.   In fact I think that your whole side was paralyzed, is that correct?

Billy:  One side I couldn’t…I mean I had to take my one leg and they would put, back then they would, the medication that they had then, whatever they used wasn’t working so we had buckets of ice water with towels soaking in ice water to put one over the other on my head just trying to alleviate the pain.

Sid:  And the pain was really bad.

Billy:  Horrible, horrible, Sid, horrible.

Sid:  How did you deal with your grandmother who keeps saying to you over and over again that, “When that woman touches you, you will be healed?”

Billy:  Well, I was annoyed because I didn’t understand it, I didn’t know what she was doing and now I do when I teach the fact that, “How do you prepare for a miracle?”  You know we prepare for Christmas, Thanksgiving, Weddings, vacation, hunting, fishing, golfing; we know how to prepare for everything in life, but a miracle.

Sid:  Okay, over and over and over again can you picture his grandmother saying this? “When that woman,” she is talking about Kathryn Kulman, “When that woman touches you, you will be healed!”  So you finally get there, did you see many healings going on?

Billy:  Yeah, I mean what I perceived at that time to be healing, of course I had never seen people fall under the power, this was 1962 Sid; so it wasn’t as common as it is today.  And so these people are falling and I’m thinking what’s that all about? So I was caught up in the awe of it.

Sid:  Okay, she points at you, you know that she’s talking about you, now did she actually say cancer or what did she say when she pointed at you?

Billy:  Young boy, you’re being healed of cancer, get down here.  And so then after three tries because I didn’t want to come down on the first I was too afraid, “I screamed real loud no!”  And she said, “I said get down here!”  I said, “No!”  The second time and the third time she said, “Ushers, you bring him down here!”  So she sent two men in the balcony to get me down, Abraham was one and Domhoff, Norman was the other and they came up in up in the balcony and ushered me down there with my Grandmother and Mother.  And I stood in front of her and we chatted for a little bit and as she went to touch me her hand was coming towards me in slow motion it seemed like.  I could hear my Grandmother’s voice, “When she touches you.”  So my Grandmother had done her job, she had prepared me to receive, she had gotten me ready.  I could see Kathryn’s hand and I could feel something coming out of her that was just something incredible, but I could hear my Grandmother’s voice.  Now when that hand hit me and it was, the power that hit me was incredible!  I could not stand, and after I fell I could not get up, I could not move my body it was believable feeling. 

Sid: And, just out of curiosity, “Were you hearing anything when this was going on?” you are pinned to the ground you couldn’t move, you are feeling things.  “Were you hearing everything people were saying?”

Billy:  I could hear her, it was in and out, because understand I still had one patch, I never felt anything like that, I could not move any of my limbs, any of my extremities were pinned to the floor and so I never had an experience like that in my life so I could hear, I could hear parts of what she said, not all of it.

Sid:  Okay, she eventually had them pick you up, she prays for you again, you go down again, “Did you realize there was a change in your body?  What did you realize was happening?”

Billy:  “That’s the funny part I didn’t even know it, and when I got up the second time I didn’t even realize here my whole paralysis was gone on my one side of me;” and then she said, “Remove that patch.”    And I said, “No, no, no.”  And she said, “You take that patch off or I’m taking that patch off.” Ha-ha. 

Sid: Ha-ha.  We have a Hebrew word and the Hebrew word is chutzpa, that’s nerve.

Billy:  She had, she had chutzpa and so I reluctantly didn’t take it off, but I flipped the bottom of the patch up, because I hated double vision, it was horrible.  And I pulled the patch and here my eyes had gone straight, perfectly straight, the double vision was gone.  My side, where the paralysis was, was gone and of course my Grandmother was crying, my mother was crying, and it was, it was a pretty emotional moment to say the least so.  You know that’s what happened there.

Sid:  Okay, when you went into the doctor’s I understand that they insisted that you have x-rays, tell me about that.

Billy:  Well, it wasn’t immediately it was I went home from that and we were such in shock as much as everybody wanted that to happen, the shock of that and again I keep emphasizing 1962, we’ve come so far in our knowledge of the Holy Spirit, the acceptance of miracles since back then it wasn’t that way.  And people even though you came back and you were still like that people still looked at you like wow; this can’t happen you’re still going to die.  But my Grandmother said, “Oh no, no, what God does he finishes, He completes.  And we went back in for x-rays I believe it was, I think it was within that week, it was, I can’t give you an exact day for that, but the Doctor came out then and he was absolutely amazed!  He said, “I don’t know what you have done?” But he said, “This is amazing!”  And so that was the documentation of that of course, that was all we needed at that moment.

Sid:  But, there’s two more things that I want you to bring out.  The fact that the presence of God was so strong on you that several rows of people fell under the presence of God just when it hit you and then Kathryn Kulman asked any one that’s had any type of cancer to come and stand near you.  There must have been such an explosion of God’s power just coming from you which had just gone into you to have that healing.  And then many years later you got together with one of the head usher there, and what did he tell you?

Billy:  Well, I met him just maybe it has been seven or eight years ago now, I met him in California and I was sharing my testimony and he was in the green room when I had finished.  He said hi Billy, let’s go to lunch, I said I don’t know you Sir, he said, “Well, I’m the usher, I’m one of the ushers that Kathryn sent to the balcony to get you.  And I want to make sure that you know everything she said to you.  And I thought, and then I said “What?”  We went to lunch and he said to me that “Do you remember all the details of that day?”  I said, “Well, I don’t remember everything, I remember what my family told me, what I remember.”

Sid:  You were just nine years old.

Billy:  At nine years old, you can’t retain everything and he said that, “There were so many people healed that day especially blood cancer, and all kinds of lung cancer, liver cancer, the reports of that day of that service he said, were amazing.”   But he said, “Kathryn, the second time when you were under the power she said; “You will do, what I do, this boy will do what I do.”

Sid:  If I were you, I would have been so grateful that he told me that!

Billy:  Yes, because my family never told me that, I never heard that, they never told me that and of course I went right away to the phone after we had that lunch I called my Grandmother and I said that I just met a man and I told her who he was and she said, “Yes, he was there, he was there and I said, “He told me Kathryn said,”  And she said, “Billy we were traumatized that day; you know we were…”

Sid:  Billy, we’re out of time right now. 

Sid:  Now I have been looking over the book and the CD of my guest this week and I have to tell you Billy Burke, some of these miracles just are blowing me out of the water.  I mean people without organs are having them recreated.  I mean a woman had her stomach cut out and she gets a new stomach, that’s outrageous!

Billy:  Its amazing Sid, but that’s what a miracle is.  See today, today so many people preach that a miracle is instant and that a healing is gradual and nothing could be further from the truth.  Now if you get healed of something that’s terminal, but it takes three or four years it is just as much a miracle over time as it was instantly because the definition of miracle is something that defies logic, it’s not suppose to happen.  Whether it’s instant or whether it’s over time.  If it’s not suppose to happen and it happens it breaks all natural and logical understanding, then it comes into that category of a miracle.

Sid:  Now, I have to tell you I have been intrigued in studying the supernatural of God for over thirty years as a believer in the Messiah and I was listening to your CD which we’re making available this week along with your book, “Freedom From Fatal Thinking.”  The CD is “How to Manifest Your Miracle” and there is an anointing on that because I have to tell you, I felt like I wanted to listen to it for a second time and then a third time, it’s like you don’t hear everything when you hear it the first time.  Have you noticed that?

Billy:  Well, that’s the anointing I think that there’s information and then there’s anointing.  And I think that when you hear the anointing there is something in you that says well I’ve got to hear that more, see it more, I’ve got to touch it.  The anointing is that supernatural connector that brings things from the head to the heart and into our life.  And I think that were all when we hear something that’s anointed it is kind a like I need more of it.  Because our spiritual man craves the anointing, now our spiritual man doesn’t just crave information; our spiritual man craves that anointing.

Sid:  Well, I have to tell you I crave listening to that teaching!  I really, you know I told you that before we went on the air, this is not a politically correct thing to do I’m just saying I enjoyed it so much.  But, I want our Mishpochah, our family to understand what happened in your life because that’s why that anointing is there.  At age nine, I mean in 1962 you’re diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and how long did they give you to live?

Billy:  Three days, I was discharged in the hospital against doctor’s wishes; my Grandmother was an avid listener to the Kathryn Kulman Ministry although I had never been there or seen her.  I was raised Christian Missionary Alliance and of course we believe in healing through prayer as a lot of people do.  But of course the radical approach of her back then was not so much healing through prayer, but the Holy Spirit moving through a vessel.

Sid:  And not only that, if I was to pick a vessel that would not get glory from man, I mean she spoked a little funny, she acted a little strange, she dressed a little strange you know for back then especially.  And most people that if they didn’t understand it was God they’d say, “That’s not God!”

Billy:  That’s right, well that’s because we’re so naturally minded like Samuel told Jesse, “Man looks on the outward part, but God looks at the heart.”  Long story short, I was discharged with three days to live, the cancer had metastasized into my lungs; my eyes were crossed into my head and I could hardly walk and my motor skills were deteriorating quickly.  And I was sitting in the balcony watching with a patch over my eye, because I had double vision and lot of pain.  I mean there was no medicine at that time that could ease the pain that I was in and I was watching her service.

Sid:  How does a nine year old, where you told that you were going to die in three days?  Did you know that?

Billy:  Well yeah, you have a sense that you’re not getting better you know and of course you could see the look on my parents face and everybody’s face; but when I was discharged from the hospital an important part of this miracle, Kathryn was used to harvest the miracle, but my grandmother spent four days with me and she would say to me, “When she touches you, when she touches you.” Every waking moment that I was able to hear or understand my Grandmother was in front of me saying, “When she touches you and of course you will be healed,” so that seed of preparation was planted.

Sid:  You know your grandmother must have really believed you were going to be healed.

Billy:  Yeah Sid, she was an amazing woman and I wish that we could all have a grandmother like her or I’m sure that many of your viewers do, but that was the preparation that I had.  Not knowing I’m wondering today how did she even know that I was going to get called out of all those people like 2,000 people in that meeting?  And she called me out and…

Sid:  But just out of curiosity you’re sitting there, you have throbbing pain, you have a patch over an eye, you have terminal brain cancer, and I understand your body was filled with lumps!

Billy:  Exactly, all over my back was probably two or three inches high.

Sid:  I mean you are a walking mess!

Billy:  Yeah, it was pretty bad.

Sid:  And you probably did not have much strength I would think.

Billy:  Now much strength, still though I have to say in that meeting, you know there in lies that mystery of anointing, I could feel something intangible.

Sid:  Had you ever felt that type of presence before?

Billy:  Never, never, never, never.  And I wouldn’t come out of the balcony when she called, I was afraid.

Sid:  Why?

Billy:  I was afraid so she sent her ushers up to get me.

Sid:  How did she call you?  Describe that.

Billy:  I was watching over the railing with one eye; I was watching her operate like I’d never seen anything like that in my life.  And when she turned around and she said, “You young boy get down here!”

Sid:  Well, maybe there was another young boy there, or did you know that it was you?

Billy:  Well, she pointed at me and I tell people it was like her finger touched my nose.  I mean it was not that big of a sanctuary, the balcony to the down stairs isn’t that huge of an auditorium so it was pretty obvious that she was pointing right at me.  She said, “You are being healed of cancer, get down here!” So it was supernatural and like I said, I didn’t want to come out so I yelled real loud, “No,” because I was afraid.  She said, “The second time, I said, get down here!” And I said the second time “No” and then she said the third time “Ushers get him down here!”

Sid:  You must have been very fearful as a nine year old.

Billy:  I was, I was and I ain’t going to lie, I was very and so my grandmother and my mother went with me.  Two ushers came up to get me and took me down to meet her and then the rest, I stood in front of her and she said to me “What’s your name?”  I told her my name and she said, “Do you believe?” And she bend down her face was right in my face and she said, “I want to know one thing from you, do you believe?” And I shook my head, yes and she turned around to walk away and then she spun around, “I said, do you believe?”

Sid:  I can picture that because I had the privilege of seeing her also.

Billy:  And the power hit me, I tell people, “I couldn’t get up, I tried to move, I could not move a body part, I was pinned to that marble floor,” and Sid what I felt it wasn’t of this planet.

Sid:  As a nine year old, what did you think?

Billy:  I didn’t know what to think, I was feeling.  I was too busy feeling from my head to my toes a radiating, a radiating presence that was just unbelievable.  And they brought me up because I couldn’t get up; I tried to move my arms and they were pinned to the floor and I was paralyzed basically in my mind, and wow, I’ve died somethings happened to me and they brought me up and she said, “Oh my, you need more, you need more of the Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit.  And the second time three rows of people went with me, three rows all across that church fell under the power at the same time and people were laying everywhere; and then that’s whenever she said, “If there is anybody in the auditorium that has leukemia especially teenagers or children with cancer, get up right now, there is something coming from this boy.”

Sid:  So she did say, “Come up so I can lay hands on you,” she said, “Come up because something is radiating out your body.”

Billy:  That’s what she said, that’s what she said, now later I met the usher that caught me here maybe ten years ago, he was at one in my meeting.  I never knew him and he later explained to me that he was the usher that she sent into the balcony to receive, to get me to retrieve me.  And so we went out and had lunch and he filled me in on some of the details of course that I wasn’t aware or my family, but that was a great moment.  When I got up the second time she said, “Get that patch off your eyes.”  Well, my eyes were straightened out and no more double vision, the pain was gone, my paralysis was gone, my speech came back, I mean it was a happy moment.  Not fully comprehending it, it was a happy moment.

Sid:  What did she make any pronouncements about your terminal brain cancer?

Billy:  She said, you know basically what, “You’re healed, I don’t know the exact words, but she said “You, the Holy Ghost has touched you, you are healed,” and later on I found out that she was laughing about it after the service.  She was joking about it to the workers like, “That boy would not come out of the balcony and we had to go get him and pry him out of there.

Sid:  I know, but what did the doctors say?  That’s what I’d like to know?

Billy:  They were amazed; the doctors came to my home it was not long after that, because they told my grandmother and my parents, “That if you discharge him he will be a vegetable in a matter of weeks.”

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, this is so important we’ll pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast, but Billy I even want to go into a little more depth in what happened to you are that time.

Sid:  My guest is red hot for Messiah, and it’s contagious.  You just keep listening to us and you’ll end up being red hot for the Messiah; but as I understand the Word of God that’s normal.  Jesus put it this way, “I’d rather you be hot or cold but if you are lukewarm in the Greek it actually says that I’ll vomit you out of my mouth.  What is going…Dennis Walker, if you were to define and I know that you are not the judge and I am not the judge, but if we were forced to define the average American Christian, especially I live here in the South, everyone says that they are a Christian; I would say lukewarm is the temperature.  What’s going to change all of that?

Dennis:  Well, I believe that God is destined for people to know Him in a greater way especially as things get closer to the end of the age there will be such an urgency in the heart of God that done should perish that He will give such an effective witness through His people that He is going to awaken people through catching them into Heavenly encounters.  In fact I believe there are people all over the world right now that are being caught up in dreams, caught up in just they’re soaking and meditating times; they’re seeing things in Heaven.  And this is an activation that is going on all across the world.

Sid:   Do you know what I’m hearing Dennis is I’m hearing unsaved Jewish people; unsaved Moslems are having these dreams and visions of Jesus.

Dennis:  Yep, and I don’t think God is going to leave the Christian people behind.

Sid:  Oh please, help us get in on it. Ha-ha.

Dennis:  Ha-ha.

Sid:  Well, that’s what Joel says in the last days.  God’s going to pour out His Spirit on all flesh and we are going to all have dreams and visions. 

Dennis:  That’s right.

Sid:  And if not now, when?  I have never seen things speeding up as much as they are on planet earth right now, ever in my entire life.  I mean it’s almost … I’m curious what you think about this but feel to me like time is speeding up, being compressed.

Dennis:  Yes, it is.  I mean things are getting stronger both in the dark side of things, the enemy is stirring things up and things look darker and you know people could look at that and focus on that but don’t focus on those things.  Focus on what God is doing, because He is stirring up new life and new faith…

Sid:  Well, we were talking about the economy and that was the main point before we went on the air and that was the main point you were talking about, you said sure, I see these things going but what’s going to happen to those that hear the initiatives of Heaven if the bottom falls out in the economy in the US and a number of other countries?

Dennis:  I believe that we are going to have to learn to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.  Isn’t that what the word says?  Man will not live by bread alone, but by every word.  That’s the initiative of Heaven what God instructs and you are going to see miraculous provision, you’re going to see things happen.  Like the woman who I had a word of knowledge in a meeting and proclaimed God’s going to pay off your debts if you run up here.  She ran up with her husband…

Sid:  Out of curiosity was she the only one that ran up? 

Dennis:  She was, everyone else was in shock. 

Sid:  Oh, when they hear what happened, I bet they are sorry they didn’t run up.  What happened?

Dennis:  Well, what happened was a year later she came into me and she said, do you remember that word about my debts being paid off.  And I said, yes.  She said I went two days after that meeting I went to the bank to make a payment on this huge debt that we thought that we thought we would never paid off and all of the debt was paid off.  I asked them, when was that?  They looked it up in the computer; it was the very day you spoke that my debts were paid off in Jesus name.  It was paid off.  Then I asked them, well who paid it off?  And they called the person who was there at the transaction for the bank.  This woman wants to know who paid this debt?  And he looked at her strangely, and he said, don’t you remember you came in, you counted out the money, I took the money and gave you a receipt.  You don’t recall this?  And she kind a said, okay yeah, I remember and walked away.  But then she realized God had sent an angel in her shape and form to pay off that debt so that the eye witness, the man who attended the transaction would see that it was her.

Sid:  Tell me about the time that you were translated to Peru.

Dennis:  Oh, that was in my tent, I’d been spending time in this little pup tent in the presence of the Lord having the Lord just invade my life and show me things in Heaven and one day, I came in expecting to look and see into Heaven again and be caught up into heavenly places; but I went flying over a geography.  It was very different from other times and finally I realized I am flying down the Andes Mountain, down the Whaga(?) River Valley and I flew into the city of Wanako, Peru…

Sid:   Now, this has not happened to me, but what in the world is going on through your mind as you are flying across the globe?  What’s going on?

Dennis:  I’m in marvel, I’m just absolutely marveling at all of this and seeing this, but I have already learned, I have had enough encounters with the Lord in this tent and in Heavenly places that you go with the flow.  You don’t get to skeptical; you know you can always look at things and analyze it later.  During the experience don’t be to analytical, analyze later so I’m just going with this experience and suddenly I found myself standing next to a bed of a pastor who had a few days earlier called me and said that they had diagnosed him with a very difficult hard situation that if he didn’t leave ministry he would die.  And as I stood next to him…

Sid:  And you know who’s behind that, the devil.

Dennis:  That’s exactly right; he wanted to take him out.  So I laid my hand on his chest and I commanded healing and I believe that’s why God had brought me there.  And then I went to the other side of the bed where his wife was also asleep and laid my had on her head and I proclaimed on her a renewed experience with the Holy Spirit.  And she had been originally baptized in the Holy Spirit she could not speak Spanish, her native language for ten days.  And so I just decreed…

Sid:  You mean she was just speaking in a supernatural language the whole time and couldn’t speak a word that from her understanding which happened to be Spanish.

Dennis:  And her husband actually called me after four days of this the first time and asked me will she ever speak Spanish again?  Ha-ha.

Sid:  Ha-ha.

Dennis:  I assured him that she would, that God was bringing a tremendous change into her life and to let it play out.  Well, anyway we called this couple two days later and finally got a hold of them, we had been trying to call.  And I told my wife what had happened and all the rest and so we called and I said, “Edgar what happened?”  Pastor, what’s going on and he said, “Two nights ago I had an experience in the middle of the night.  The Spirit of God came on me and suddenly I have no more symptoms of this heart condition.  I am absolutely free of all the pain.”  And I said, “How is your wife?”  And he said, “That same night, she got hit with the Holy Spirit again and now for two days she has not been able to speak her native language later he confirmed that that actually went on for fifteen more days, fifteen total days that she couldn’t speak her normal language.”

Sid: Now, did you tell him what went on?  How he happened to be healed?

Dennis:  After they had told me what had happened then I said the reason I’m calling is this and I told him the story.  And they were just amazed that God had sent me in the Spirit to stand by them in the Spirit and to proclaim healing and deliverance over them.

Sid:  So what are you going to say to the person that’s listening to us right now, that is wonderful for Dennis Walker, but what about me, am I Swiss Cheese?

Dennis:  Ha-ha, well yeah, you’re holy.

Sid:  Oh my, oh my goodness, that’s as bad as mine, but go ahead.  Ha-ha.

Dennis:  Ha-ha, God by the blood of Jesus is giving you the same access into His presence that I have and the only thing that it takes is a little bit of faith.  Faith comes by hearing the word of
God.  It is the word of God that proclaims to seek those things which are above where Christ is sitting above at the right hand of the Father.

Sid:  Do you see that everyone listening to us right now that is born from above; that sits under the teaching …… will be able to have experiences like that and maybe even greater?  Do you really believe that?

Dennis:  Absolutely, I mean I see it so clearly in scripture, Jesus said, “Whoever believes in me the works that I do, he will do also, you just have to learn to do His work His way, you can’t do it your own way. 

Sid: Now the name of your book “Catching the Initiatives of Heaven,” explain exactly what the initiatives from Heaven are.  The one thing you make a big point of; it is not a formula.

Dennis:  That’s right, everything and every situation will be different, but it all comes from what God starts.  You know the word of God says I John 5:4 “Whatever is born of God overcomes the world.”  And I see that that’s exactly what Jesus did, He said He did this in John 5:19 that he could do nothing of himself but what He saw the Father do.  In other word He is following the Father’s lead.  And by the way it wasn’t just in the New Testament.  Moses did all of the works that he did by being directed by God from Heaven.  He caught these initiatives just like Jesus later.  And actually the word of God to Moses was “There will come a prophet like unto you hear him.  And so they were both moving in this directed from Heaven thing that I call the initiatives of Heaven, they were being directed by Heaven.  I believe all of the prophets throughout the Old and New Testaments; all of the disciples that did the works of Heaven in the New Testament were being directed by Heaven.  I believe that’s what Jesus taught His disciples how to hear and how to see and how to move in these things.  And then He said to them, you are going to do the works that I do because I am going the Father.

Sid:  Oh, what a difference would it make in the United States if in the White House, if in Congress, if in Senate; there were only one or two that were operating under the initiatives from Heaven.  Could you picture what would go on?

Dennis:  I don’t think it takes too many people to make a big difference, in fact in Abraham’s day when he was negotiating for the very life of a city and with Abraham he said it came down to ten people.  The ten people could change the destiny of a city and I believe for you and I today it comes down to who will become activated to see the salvation of nations?

Sid:  Is it our choice to be activated?

Dennis:  Absolutely!  Absolutely!  You know I just believe that the Bible tells us that these things are ours.  The Word of God in Colossians 3:1 and 2 gives us a command, it says seek,  that’s command, seek those things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, at the right hand of God.  Now it’s our decision.  Are we going to seek these things or not?  Jesus said whenever you seek it you will find it.  And then in the very next verse it even tells you how to seek it.  He said set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

Sid:  Oh, our time is slipping away, we will pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast.